What's the use of calling it abuse?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I wish there was some way we could have education in our youth about mental illness.  It might save many from allowing our FOO overwhelm yet another generation or cluelessly falling into unhealthy relationships.

I've thought about that too.  But then again, I think my gut instincts at times in the relationship (prior to marriage) were that I absolutely needed to get out, and was not comfortable with her.  I didn't really trust her.  So I KNEW, just not how to put that knowledge into action correctly.  I would rationalize my way around to sticking it out. 

I think I was weak during those times where the proverbial schitt was hitting the fan, and I would back down, thinking "this isn't that big of a deal, I'll let it go this time," without understanding that these were not isolated incidents, and she was consciously or subconsciously, probing my limits to see what she could get away with.  Everytime I let things go, I was just feeding the monster

Then I imagine classrooms where all the youths are looking around and virtually diagnosing all the other youths.  Oh my!

you just know the kids who actually are BPD would be absolutely unbearable: pointing the finger at everyone else, denying anything was wrong with them, throwing tantrums if cornered...

[PeteWitsend]

I wish there was some way we could have education in our youth about mental illness.  It might save many from allowing our FOO overwhelm yet another generation or cluelessly falling into unhealthy relationships.

I've thought about that too.  But then again, I think my gut instincts at times in the relationship (prior to marriage) were that I absolutely needed to get out, and was not comfortable with her.  I didn't really trust her.  So I KNEW, just not how to put that knowledge into action correctly.  I would rationalize my way around to sticking it out. 

I think I was weak during those times where the proverbial schitt was hitting the fan, and I would back down, thinking "this isn't that big of a deal, I'll let it go this time," without understanding that these were not isolated incidents, and she was consciously or subconsciously, probing my limits to see what she could get away with.  Everytime I let things go, I was just feeding the monster

Then I imagine classrooms where all the youths are looking around and virtually diagnosing all the other youths.  Oh my!

you just know the kids who actually are BPD would be absolutely unbearable: pointing the finger at everyone else, denying anything was wrong with them, throwing tantrums if cornered...

[hotchip]

He also got in my face and almost yelled that he was thinking of hurting himself, then berated me for not reacting appropriately. ('I'm telling you I want to hurt myself, and you're not reacting! You're supposed to be the person closest to me and you're not reacting!')

Re control and intentionality, one thing that has reframed my perspective over time is the experience of uBPDx telling lies re his cheating. Not misunderstandings, emotional outbursts, etc, just straight up factual lies sustained in moments of emotion but also calm and quiet, lies told strategically to multiple people and to secure a particular result.

At the time, i took the above outburst as a pure expression of distress. Now I am not so sure. Invoking self harm to demand or elicit a reaction from a partner is a pretty terrible thing, and the fact in the weeks after I was snappy, stressed or just wanted to hide and fall asleep when i saw uBPDx, and that this was characterised as me being 'horrible', is also awful.

The fact a close friend had previously lost a close person in very proximate circumstances to suicide, that i told uBPDx this affected me a lot, and yet he had no qualms continuing to bombard me with self harming rhetoric to secure a desired response or experience his own emotional release, is also pretty selfish.

[hotchip]

*cw: suicide

Sorry, the above should say that *i* had lost a close friend / close person to suicide - i walked out of her house and minutes later she killed herself. And the delusional idea i could somehow save uBPDx from his mental illness was very linked to my regret over this.

[PeteWitsend]

*cw: suicide

Sorry, the above should say that *i* had lost a close friend / close person to suicide - i walked out of her house and minutes later she killed herself. And the delusional idea i could somehow save uBPDx from his mental illness was very linked to my regret over this.

Sometimes we have history, or something about our past that leads us into these relationships.  I think it's good to recognize it so it doesn't continue to trip us up.

In your own case, that's a horrible burden to have to carry.  I hope by understanding the nature of mental illness better, you can accept that none of this is your fault or your responsibility. 

I look back on some of the red flags I ignored about my XW, and one was the absolute mess of a situation she was in when we met (financially and legally).  But we worked in the same profession, and I remembered the struggles I had getting my career started in the same city.  And she was an immigrant with a tenuous residency situation in that she would need a work visa if she was hired, which obviously made getting a job even more complicated than the situation  I faced.  So I used that reasoning to excuse the things I didn't like about her behavior, and rationalized my way to thinking that if we were married and her immigration situation was resolved, she would calm down and things would be better.  WRONG!

[Notwendy]

At the time, i took the above outburst as a pure expression of distress. Now I am not so sure. Invoking self harm to demand or elicit a reaction from a partner is a pretty terrible thing, and the fact in the weeks after I was snappy, stressed or just wanted to hide and fall asleep when i saw uBPDx, and that this was characterised as me being 'horrible', is also awful.

Yes, it is awful to do what he did. It might help to separate the behavior from the motive. I don't know if we can know what a disordered person is thinking but we can decide, the behavior is awful.

I compare this to water safety courses I took at a teen. The lessons included being a possible lifeguard if we wanted to. The first lesson was to never let a drowing person grab on to you. We learned ways to avoid that and to get out of their grip if it happened.

Because a drowning person is frantic for air, and they will push you under and climb on top of you for air. It won't help the person either as actually, both people might go under.

Does this mean they are intentionally wanting to drown someone? Are they murderers? Probably not.

However, the result is, whatever their reason or intention, in this situation, they could drown someone.

Whatever reason your ex had for this- it was awful behavior. You can call it that, whether he was intentionally being awful or not.

I think we connect abusive behavior with the motive of intentional abuse, but sometimes it might not be intentional-- but it's still abusive behavior.

I am sorry for the loss of your friend. I understand the feeling of wishing you could have done something. I think this is normal to feel this way. But I also think there was nothing you could have done, you had no idea this would happen.

[Pook075]

At the time, i took the above outburst as a pure expression of distress. Now I am not so sure. Invoking self harm to demand or elicit a reaction from a partner is a pretty terrible thing, and the fact in the weeks after I was snappy, stressed or just wanted to hide and fall asleep when i saw uBPDx, and that this was characterised as me being 'horrible', is also awful.

The fact a close friend had previously lost a close person in very proximate circumstances to suicide, that i told uBPDx this affected me a lot, and yet he had no qualms continuing to bombard me with self harming rhetoric to secure a desired response or experience his own emotional release, is also pretty selfish.

When a mentally ill person "threatens" self-harm, take it seriously.  That means picking up the phone, calling emergency services, and tell them that your partner is threatening that.  The police will come, an ambulance will come, and he will be taken for a psychological evaluation.  He will say or do anything to get out of it, but you repeat what he told you to whoever shows up.

A few things will happen once you do this.

1)  He will be furious at you for "betraying" him.  Yet, you're doing exactly what we're taught to do as kids, in an emergency, you dial 9-1-1 and tell the truth.  Explain that you did the only thing you could do to help him in that moment when he wouldn't talk things out and deal with his emotions.

2)  He will no longer play the "I'm suicidal" card in arguments unless he realizes that he actually needs immediate help.  One trip in the back of an ambulance with an involuntary hold is usually enough to get the point across.  That's not something to be "weaponized" unless you actually want to receive the help you're claiming to need.

3)  The hospital systems in the US are virtually useless for these types of things and it frustrates them as much as it frustrates you.  He will be held until a psychiatrist can interview him, and if he's deemed a threat to himself or others he will face a mandatory hold (usually 3-7 days).  They will try to help him with anxiety and other symptoms, but real change is up to him.

Side note- while he may be saying stuff like that to upset you, deep down a part of him means it as well.  He's hurting mentally and has no idea how to express what he needs in the moment.  What he actually wants though is compassion and forgiveness for the way he's acting, even though he is incapable of expressing that. 

It's honestly sad and I feel bad for your husband...but that doesn't give a free license to abuse you either.  There has to be a balance in there somewhere.