The situation never seems to end

[Our abuse recovery guide]

 I have been able to recognise that my sibling was manipulative all my life for the last 15 years or so. Growing up it was a pattern many of you will recognise, pointing our flaws, when I made mistakes. Making me question if I was adopted. As we grew into adults this intensified, but they made sure to keep me in their orbit. As my career grew and I got married with kids always playing the victim, borrowing money, staying with us. When the kids would visit them, telling them they would inherit there house. The thought of my kids being dragged into this cycle was the final straw. I cut her off completely for years.

But then the flying monkeys started. My own mother in tears about it, saying when she was gone I would be their only family, I couldn't turn my back on them. So I opened the door again. This time more guarded, more careful, more arms length for the sake of my parents.

For a few years this seemed to work. Minimal contract. Civil almost friendly at family occasions. Then the nasty messages started up again. I pulled away again, not announced, just pulled away. My adult children recognised what was happening and chose to pull away themselves. One broke contact altogether, one maintains a text relationship, but is guarded. This seemed to work another year or so.

The flying monkeys have just returned. That's what has prompted me to join this forum. I am running out of ways to cope. My mother is upset that the kids don't contact their auntie. She believes my partner and I are controlling them into no contact. They are old enough to be part of the conversation now in their 20s so we have given them full disclosure.

Where do I go from here? I can't cut my mother out of my life, but the distress this is causing her is unbearable. I am also not about to try and persuade my kids to speak to her when they don't want to. I don't want them dragged into this cycle of harm.

[Lifelongissue]

 I have been able to recognise that my sibling was manipulative all my life for the last 15 years or so. Growing up it was a pattern many of you will recognise, pointing our flaws, when I made mistakes. Making me question if I was adopted. As we grew into adults this intensified, but they made sure to keep me in their orbit. As my career grew and I got married with kids always playing the victim, borrowing money, staying with us. When the kids would visit them, telling them they would inherit there house. The thought of my kids being dragged into this cycle was the final straw. I cut her off completely for years.

But then the flying monkeys started. My own mother in tears about it, saying when she was gone I would be their only family, I couldn't turn my back on them. So I opened the door again. This time more guarded, more careful, more arms length for the sake of my parents.

For a few years this seemed to work. Minimal contract. Civil almost friendly at family occasions. Then the nasty messages started up again. I pulled away again, not announced, just pulled away. My adult children recognised what was happening and chose to pull away themselves. One broke contact altogether, one maintains a text relationship, but is guarded. This seemed to work another year or so.

The flying monkeys have just returned. That's what has prompted me to join this forum. I am running out of ways to cope. My mother is upset that the kids don't contact their auntie. She believes my partner and I are controlling them into no contact. They are old enough to be part of the conversation now in their 20s so we have given them full disclosure.

Where do I go from here? I can't cut my mother out of my life, but the distress this is causing her is unbearable. I am also not about to try and persuade my kids to speak to her when they don't want to. I don't want them dragged into this cycle of harm.

[CC43]

Hi there,

Kudos to you for maintaining boundaries.  I know it can be hard sometimes.  You mention that your adult sibling lived with you, borrowed money and always played the victim.  I bet you tried to help her out, to help her get on her feet again, right?  But the thing is, with untreated BPD, her needs are endless, and furthermore, she's ungrateful and/or mean, and/or blaming YOU.  It's like no good deed goes unpunished, right?

In my opinion, you are all adults now.  You've done enough for your sibling.  You know full well how toxic your sibling can be if you let her in too close.  And your kids know it too.  Sure, mom is "distraught" because she's spent a lifetime protecting/enabling/making excuses for her weakest child, and she just doesn't see how it's harmful to you.  Maybe she can't be happy when her BPD daugter is clearly unhappy.  But you know what?  That's their problem.  I think you stick to your boundary:  everyone is an adult here, I'm staying out of it.  I'm not meddling.

It sounds like your kids know better, too.

Here's an observation for you.  In my family, grandma just doesn't seem to understand that 20-somethings are BUSY!  Yet the reality for most young adults is that they just don't have the time, money or energy to be a caretaker of an aunt's emotional/financial/logistical/housing turmoil.  In my opinion, young adults deserve to focus on forging their own lives.  Maybe they show up to a Christmas or Thanksgiving gathering, and that would be wonderful, but demanding much more than that sounds too needy and whiny in my opinion.  If grandma insists that the grandkids call their auntie regularly, check in on her and help her with domestic duties, I think that's out of line.  Maybe you say something like, My kids are really busy these days, and I'm not meddling in their lives.  Besides, Sis is an adult, she can take care of herself.

Now my guess is that your sis is needy, blame-y and complaining all the time to Mom about how horrible everyone is, especially you, for not being her emotional caretaker.  You can't control that.  Mom is falling for it.  My opinion is that's between them, and it's probably best that you stay out of it.  You can say that:  This is between you and Sis, I'm staying out of it.

I know it's hard, but just remember, if you relax your boundary, things get infinitely harder, right?  You deserve a peaceful life too, you know.

[Pushover_Pleaser]

It seems like this relates to me so much and more so futuristic of what I might have to go through. I am at the start of the no contact with my untreated bpd sister and it has been taxing. The thought of going to family functions terrifies me because I am unsure how she is going to react or if she will explode on me. She is a violent sort and it always makes me uneasy. No, she has never hurt me but she does yell and will get explosive. I understand about the parent aspect of it, my mother was in the middle as well but she knows how to stay neutral to an extent, but my sister's claws are so far into her that she is going to believe everything she says sadly. I have distanced from my mother as well. If they were to try to come after my kids I would cut them off too. The kids don't need that at all and I think you were right to be open and honest with them. Let them see and make the decision for themselves and they can stay out of the spiral before they get close to it. If you have any advice for family functions I am all ears because I have yet to cross that path...

[CC43]

Hi again,

I myself have an aunt who is a high-conflict person.  Since she's high functioning, I wouldn't say she has "full blown" BPD, but I suspect she has some BPD traits.  When I was young, she seemed to complain too much in my presence, for example about various physical ailments.  When I was just eight or nine, I had the sense that she was mean, hyper-critical, whiny, attention-seeking and inappropriate--let's just say she wasn't my favorite relative.  And since she's still living seventy years later, I can't help but think she was exaggerating about her (poor) health, A LOT.

Anyway, one time my aunt had a meltdown when my brother visited with her over a long weekend.  He had just gotten accepted into a college, and he decided to wear a sweatshirt from his chosen college during the visit to his aunt's home.  I think that most "normal" people would have congratulated my brother for getting into his chosen college, especially his aunt, who happened to be a teacher!  But when it comes to someone with BPD traits, I think you guys can imagine what happened.  Auntie accused her young nephew of being insulting, condescending and pretentious.  She threw a hissy fit because he dared to wear such a sweatshirt in her home.  After the visit, she sent some mean correspondence to my mother.  We were shocked that she wasn't able to be happy for someone else, not even her nephew--and that she couldn't keep the negative thoughts to herself, but rather lashed out with wild, incoherent accusations.  After the incident, she became estranged from our family, for years.  All because a highschooler wore a sweatshirt with a college insignia on it.  Geesh.  Jealous much?  I think only a BPD-twisted mind would consider such a thing as insulting and deserving of long-term estrangement.  At the time, I didn't know about BPD, but now I think it was a classic BPD response:  misplaced envy, projection of attention-seeking behavior, convoluted "victim" logic, and lashing out to ruin someone else's happy moment.

And here's the rub:  once my dad passed away, my aunt tried to reconnect with my mom.  My mom was torn up about it, because her sister had been so mean (e.g. the sweatshirt incident) and unsupportive over the years.  As an example, she was invited to my dad's Celebration of Life but made a lame excuse not to attend.  My mom and I talked it over, and I basically advised her, it's OK not to let her "back in."  Auntie had never apologized or even been nice, really.  Why rekindle old grudges?  Why invite more drama?  I think my mom appreciated that I said it was OK to prioritize her own happiness.  And so Auntie remains estranged.

[zachira]

My heart goes out to you having to deal with the never ending drama of having to still deal with your disordered sibling because you have chosen to have contact with your mother who enables your sister. "The situation never seems to end" really fits.

My mother with BPD is deceased. I have a large extended family and family of origin full of flying monkeys who enable the golden children like my sister with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) and abuse the scapegoats like myself. I am still in contact with a few family members and people in the community where I grew up. The abusive behaviors from the flying monkeys never end and the resentment the family holds for my going no contact with my sister and exposing the family for generations of terrible abuse is never ending. Most recently I was taken off the family email list because of a short genuinely nice comment I made. Up until then the family did not realize I was on the email list. I have made requests to be added back to the list and ignored.

Dealing with your situation is really about boundaries. With your mother, I would shut down the conversation as soon as she starts talking about your sister saying something simple like: "I will not discuss my sister." and then follow through with leaving the room if your mother continues to insist. The most important boundary is how much you are going to allow yourself to be upset by how badly your family is acting: at what intensity and for how long. Clearly it is very hurtful to be so unfairly and badly treated by your closest family members. With time and continuing to work on boundaries, you will be less affected by their hurtful disturbing behaviors though it will likely always be a life long sorrow to be mistreated by your own family members.

The way your family members act is very ingrained and not likely to change. Give yourself a warm caring pat on the back for recognizing the dysfunction and being a loving mother doing everything you can to protect your children.

 

[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family- I'm so glad you found us.  This sounds like a really frustrating situation, and it also sounds like you've done everything right up until this point.  The final step is to just let go of the rope and let whatever happens happen.

Your sibling is mentally ill and will continue having problems until they take treatment seriously.  Your mom may not be mentally ill, but she's likely under so much pressure to help your sibling, it's like a mental illness.  I have a BPD ex and a BPD daughter, and I didn't realize until years after the fact that I was depressed, anxious, and exhausted because I was always so worried about what would happen next. 

Because I'm dad, I have to show up regardless, no matter how big of a hole my kid put herself in.  Even when she screamed at me and hated me.

What I learned in time was that I was enabling so much of the abuse that came my way by not enforcing healthy boundaries.  Your mom is in that same position and bless her, she's doing the best she can.  So realize that mom is not the enemy and she's only doing what she thinks is best in a really terrible situation.

Your sibling is also doing the best they can in a lousy situation (within their mind).  They are always the victim, always in the center of drama, and they're always rushing to put out a fire...yet starting three more on the way.  It's sad really, but the only way it gets better is if your sibling decides to take treatment seriously.

While you have great boundaries with your sibling, you have shaky ones with mom.  Let her know that you're not against your sibling; you're just not going to be in the middle of anything.  Your spouse and kids can choose what they want to do as well, and you'll help your sibling if you can.  It won't be at the expense of your mental health though- you're not accepting abuse just for the heck of it.

Look at it this way- you didn't cut off your sibling.  Your sibling decided to not respect your values, and you made it very clear that if that's what they chose, you weren't going to be in their life.  They made the decision- not you!  You just kept your promise and did the rational thing. 

Let mom know that you'll continue keeping that promise- if your sibling is civil, you're always there to talk.  If they're ugly, you'll walk away.  They are the one deciding though and this has very little to do with you.

[Notwendy]

The thought of my kids being dragged into this cycle was the final straw. I cut her off completely for years.

But then the flying monkeys started. My own mother in tears about it, saying when she was gone I would be their only family, I couldn't turn my back on them. So I opened the door again. This time more guarded, more careful, more arms length for the sake of my parents.

For a few years this seemed to work. Minimal contract. Civil almost friendly at family occasions. Then the nasty messages started up again. I pulled away again, not announced, just pulled away. My adult children recognised what was happening and chose to pull away themselves. One broke contact altogether, one maintains a text relationship, but is guarded. This seemed to work another year or so.

The flying monkeys have just returned. That's what has prompted me to join this forum. I am running out of ways to cope. My mother is upset that the kids don't contact their auntie. She believes my partner and I are controlling them into no contact. They are old enough to be part of the conversation now in their 20s so we have given them full disclosure.

Where do I go from here? I can't cut my mother out of my life, but the distress this is causing her is unbearable. I am also not about to try and persuade my kids to speak to her when they don't want to. I don't want them dragged into this cycle of harm.

I think one of the difficulties with a pwBPD is that they are connected to other people in the family. So having boundaries with them can involve other people with whom we still want a close relationship with.

My father was a protector and enabler to my BPD mother. I never considered going NC with my mother. However, in college, I sought out counseling and the counselor brought up the topic of me doing that with BPD mother- because of the emotional effects on me of the relationship. So I tried it and it lasted one week, because any relationship with my father also included her and I wanted a relationship with him. My mother's FOO and some family friends also were "flying monkeys" to her.

I knew that the family expectation was compliance with BPD mother and I went along with this for the most part, and for many years, until going along with her wishes began to involve my adolescent children. In my family dynamics, I am not the golden child. My "value" to the family was based on my being useful to her, to do things for her- household tasks, emotional caretaking. She didn't look to my kids for that when they were younger but when they reached adolescence, I observed her enlisting my children into this role too. That was a bottom line for me. It isn't my children's jobs to be her emotional caretaker.

I didn't cut contact between her and my children but was protective during that contact. By that time, the kids also had a sense of discomfort around her. These were their natural boundaries. I wanted to respect that too. They had learned to treat her respectfully but I let them decide on how much contact they wanted with her. They were also old enough to understand mental illness and we discussed that. One of my kids didn't want contact with her at all, due to some experiences with her, another could handle some contact with her.

Young children have no choice when it comes to relationships with adults in the family. They are dependent on them. For older children, a relationship becomes more similar to one between two adults. If a child has a sense that someone is not a safe person for them to be close to- that is a protective boundary. We want to preserve this sense for them, so that they don't get into relationships with disordered people. If we force them to ignore it and force the relationship, we invalidate it.

Your children have no obligation to have a relationship with your sister. If there is contact in the context of a family event- like a wedding, or if they are all there together on a holiday with your parents- they can be expected to behave cordially. That's just being decent. But they aren't obligated to have contact with her otherwise if they don't want to.

Flying monkeys make having boundaries difficult. It's a part of the entire dynamics. Unfortunately, my having boundaries with BPD mother came with a cost. This is family dynamics- at first the effort is to get the person back into their previous role. If the person doesn't do that, they risk being "expelled" "exiled" from the unit.

My choice for a middle ground was lower contact  "LC". It may involve less contact but it also is the content of that contact. If we spoke, I kept the conversation light and cordial, and did not discuss personal or emotional information.

For me, this was a quieter, less dramatic choice to maintain personal boundaries while still having contact. How other family members responded to that was their choice. I remained cordial to the best of my abilities. My priority was to protect my children and not have them be partipants in this dynamic.

My best advice is to continue to stand up for what is important to you- your children, while remaining cordial to the FM in your family. If your mother brings up the topic of contact with your sister, politely state that you love her but this isn't something to discuss. Talking won't solve this for her. Remain calm and cordial but stand your ground. Unfortunately- they will react to this- but this is their choice to make. You can only control how you behave and how you treat other people.

It's hard to see your mother in distress, but also- to sacrifice your children's emotional well being to make her feel better is unreasonable. I never wanted to be in this position- but that was the result of this kind of dynamic.