Needing encouragement &support to get healthy whether or not my son chooses to

[JsMom]

Hi, I've been gone from here for about 6 months. My swubpd went from broke and suicidal in Oct. to find a very good job. In my fantasy world, that was all he needed to be ok. From what I saw he was managing life well for about 4 months at which time he called in a panic because of mismanaging money. When I say panic I mean frantic, all logic and rational thinking out the window. So, in true form I panic and rescue with rent money.
I've been in therapy since October and I'm finally understanding my son isn't the problem. I don't allow myself to be manipulated and taken advantage of because of his pain. It's my pain at seeing him hurting, scared.... that stops me from setting the boundaries I want to set boundaries and know it's important for his growth and mine. He's 45. He's intelligent and has always had a job or started a career. I love him yet this illness creates such chaos. My husband,  not his biological Dad is at the end of his rope with me letting myself be taken advantage of.  So, I'm here to practice and set boundaries on my money, ridiculously long amounts of time on the phone trying to calm and reason with my son who isn't in a state to do that at that time. He has said a couple weeks ago that he wants therapy.  I'm not sure he's serious,  but the only thing I want to help pay for is good DBT therapy. I'll be reading posts and articles available. Thanks

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[JsMom]

I want to add to my post, asking a question.  Has anyone really struggled with setting boundaries? Such as giving financially where you short yourself and the pwbpd overspends, doesn't budget..
I know in my head this is very unhealthy. My heart feels like I'm being cruel if I don't  "help".  I hate that I feel stuck and afraid. 
Has anyone been able to make this change?  And how did you do it?

[Notwendy]

I think it's great that your therapist has identified the boundary issue for you. It's also because, we can't change another person, only ourselves, so while your son has his own issues with BPD and spending, when you give him money, it enables his behavior.

The wish to help is normal as a parent, however, if you can see this kind of "help" as enabling- something that could stand in the way of your son learning to manage money better- you may feel less inclined to help in this way.

This isn't just with someone with BPD. It's with anybody- if we could spend money as we want- and someone will give us more, maybe we'd be less inclined to stick to a budget.

It's also good that you have identified your own feelings of fear if you don't help financially. If it's our own feelings, we can learn to work with that.

Something that helped me, in addition to therapy, is 12 step CODA groups, which helps to idenfity and change enabling behavior.

With my BPD mother, mismanaging money was a long term behavior. My father enabled her. After he passed away, she didn't have money management skills and compromised herself financially, in her elder years. Your son is able to be employed, and recover financially from mistakes- and so, if you think of this as letting him learn now- while he can do that, then it could be that the best way to "help" is to not give money.

IMHO I would not pay for therapy. The incentive needs to come from him. He may be less likely to follow through if it's not a money risk to him.

I think we all would help in a situation where someone was sick, infirm, a true emergency where they could not work or fend for themselves but your son is able to work- and so letting him learn may be the best experience for him, even if it's hard to say no.

[CC43]

Hi JsMom,

Well it sounds to me like there are a couple of good developments here.  First, your son had a stretch of four months of stability--is that a record for him?  That's pretty good in my opinion.  That's a real accomplishment, as well as a solid base to work from.  Second, it seems you have a good grasp of the situation:  you're aware that the problem is your pain/fear/panic at seeing your son struggle.  Being able to see the pattern and name what you're feeling is key to addressing it.

Look, the way I see this is that, though your son might be venting and getting himself into a tizzy, it's not your job to get him out of it.  If you're always there to "rescue" him by talking him down and bailing him out with money, then how is he going to learn to do these things for himself?  He's 45, he can hold down a great job, my guess is that he's capable.  If he realizes he needs some expert assistance--psychological, a life coach, a finacial skills course--well that's great and very responsible of him.  But I think you need to get out of his way!  I know you might be worried sick at first, but I think it's time.  I'd say, it's time to close the Bank of Mom.

I think you need to deactivate that ATM (aka panic) button.  In my humble opinion, you shouldn't pay for DBT courses, because if you do, my sense is that he won't take them seriously.  He's 45, if he wants to do something, he should be the one to make it happen.  He has a job and presumably insurance--he can find therapy that works for him.  And when he does, you're not depriving him of that sense of accomplishment and the pride of full "ownership" of his life.  But if you are "facilitating" his life for him out of panic and concern, what you're basically doing is projecting a sense of incompetence onto him, and you're perpetuating a feeling that he's dependent on you.  Do you really want that?

My adult BPD stepdaughter had a habit of rebounding to her dad's and my home every few months after a self-inflicted crisis.  What she'd do was give up on something (school, her job, her rooming situation, etc.) and "escape" her life by living with us, rent, responsibility and consequence-free.  (Do you see how she uses avoidance as her main coping strategy?)  Of course, at first she'd enjoy being on "vacation," but even she knew it wasn't sustainable, because she wasn't living her life--she was just "waiting" on the sidelines, in a sort of purgatory, while hating her dad and me full time.  Last fall, her dad asked her to leave our home, because she was hostile, and she wasn't working or trying very hard to find work.  Though the circumstances around her leaving weren't ideal, I think that it was one of the best things that happened to her.  She was forced to live in the "real world" and face the consequences of her own choices.  And once she was given the time and space to sort out her own life on her own, she surprised us.  Sure, her dad is helping her with some money from time to time, but it's much less then what he used to give her, and he's in the process of weaning her off money completely, as we're retired.  I think she's free to "hate" us as much as she wants, weaving a narrative that we "abused" her by "kicking her out for no good reason," and that's fine if it's what it takes to get her to stand on her own two feet and create an adult's life for herself.  I'd rather be temporarily "despised" as "toxic," if it means she creates a real life for herself, rather than despise me because I'm an enabler of her living like a perpetual victim and like a little girl, with fewer responsibilities than a five-year-old, because that's not healthy for any of us.

Anyway, I might have advised before that I think your role needs to evolve from one of "facilitator/rescuer" to cheerleader.  You don't give money.  You don't solve your son's problems.  You don't even volunteer advice unless he asks for it.  If he's spinning out of control, maybe you allow him to sit with his feelings and process them, but you don't become his punching bag.  Also, you're not his therapist--if he's venting for hours late into the night, you extricate yourself, because you need your sleep, and so does he!  In other words, you need healthy boundaries, namely not to lose too much of your valuable time and money to his chaos.  You give him time and space to sort things out for himself.

One more example from me:  my stepkids were racking up parking and speeding tickets when they started driving.  My husband would pay for them, and he became increasingly stressed out when the tickets continued and the insurance costs soared even higher.  He even hired lawyers to appear in court to contest the tickets, so his (adult) kids wouldn't lose their licenses.  At one point, I said, If you continue to pay the tickets, they'll keep getting tickets.  If you want the tickets to stop, stop paying for them.  And guess what?  When he stopped paying, he stopped getting more tickets from the kids.  Maybe the kids got more tickets, or maybe not, but they stopped being my husband's problem.  In other words, he had to refrain from getting in the way of the natural consequences of his kids' behavior.  So if an adult kid loses a job (or gets fired), they don't get "rewarded" with months' long vacations in the parental home.  They have to find another job, and quick, so that they can make rent.  They "need" the pressure of making rent to get out there and find another employment situation, find an affordable living situation, etc.

Just my two cents.

[JsMom]

Thank you very much Notwendy and CC43,  I've reread your posts and I know I will read them again as I'm walking out setting boundaries. I agree that I am enabling and I'm not helping my son, but actually hindering him. It's not fun to admit that and still continue doing it. I need to repeat that phrase to myself over and over so it sinks in.  I know some of my struggle is my Dad had bpd and I was his support person even as a little girl. So my rescue responses are greatly influenced by those scary, difficult years. I don't know if you all really know how much this forum and your input helps me walk forward inspite of my inner struggling and my sons issues. I feel like I have understanding and reality to hold on to when my son spins out, when memories haunt me and my insides rebel. 

[zachira]

You are not alone in struggling to set healthier boundaries with a disordered close family member. It is particularly challenging when the disordered person is your child.
Your biggest challenge in setting boundaries with your son could be wanting him to get better more than he does. The challenge when others are more interested in another person's recovery than he/she is than it is harder for he/she to feel motivated to take the steps needed to get better.

[JsMom]

Zachira, you hit the nail on the head. I want for my son mental health and the freedom that could bring him. I see his pain,fear, spins into thinking and feelings that disregulate him and wash away the hard work he does do to try and build a stable life. And the pain he feels when he wants to end his life.
He lives in that place but takes little effort to face it head on. Maybe he can't, maybe I've gotten in the way.
He's done therapy from time to time as I've encouraged and paid for it. Or his ex wife pushed for it. He has gotten some relief and insight as far as he went. But the root hasn' been addressed and the truth is he avoids going to that place. For me part of it is also not accepting my son as he is and not respecting his right to live his life as he wants. . 

[zachira]

You might explore learning motivational interviewing (MI). MI is a well known evidence based type of intervention for addicts and is now used in many areas including health care. It meets the disordered person where he/she is in terms of motivation including having no motivation and supports change talk from the disordered person. Anybody can learn it and there are many resources on the internet.

[Notwendy]

I know some of my struggle is my Dad had bpd and I was his support person even as a little girl. So my rescue responses are greatly influenced by those scary, difficult years.

This is significant, because, even if we are adults, our BPD parents may have been scary to us as kids. Sometimes the expectation to emotionally caretake a BPD parent is also reinforced by the other parent, who may be enabling.

[CC43]

I see his pain,fear, spins into thinking and feelings that disregulate him and wash away the hard work he does do to try and build a stable life. And the pain he feels when he wants to end his life.
He lives in that place but takes little effort to face it head on. Maybe he can't, maybe I've gotten in the way.

Hi again,

Sadly, I've been in a very similar situation, but probably from the standpoint which your husband is in now.  Surely the emotional bonds are weaker when dealing with a stepchild than a biological child.  Nevertheless, I've had to live through the aftermath of multiple suicide attempts, at least four, possibly five.  And yes, my husband and I have paid, paid, paid for therapy, hospital stays, DBT programs, etc., on top of wasting four years of college tuition and housing.  Sadly, none of that did much good, except for prolong the agony.  In hindsight, I think some of our efforts and rescues might have increased harm.  How?  By "setting up" my dear stepdaughter to fail.  We were functioning FOR her, in the hopes that she'd stabilize and get better.  But, at the end of the day, WE wanted it more than she did.  And that is a recipe for disaster.  When we went above and beyond, to help her get a "new start," or set her up in a "new living situation," she'd stabilize for a few weeks, but invaribly crash.  Why?  Because she wasn't the one making her life happen, WE were.  She didn't take responsibility and OWNERSHIP of her own life.  And in addition, by setting her up in a "new" place, she veered farther away from her traditional support system, as well as dug herself into a deeper financial hole.

So to re-emphasize my message, in my opinion, if your son wants something--a new job, more education, some therapy, a car--then he should be the one to make it happen.  That's especially relevant for someone his age.  I'd be a little more forgiving of, say, a 21-year-old who has practically no experience adulting.  But 45 and employable?  He should take the reins of his life.  Like Notwendy stated, he's young enough that he can still recover from mistakes.  And if he's making the financial mistakes (not you), chances are they're probably limited in scale--getting evicted, maybe declaring bankruptcy with a few thousand dollars of credit card debt.  You, however, probably can't afford it, because if you're not retired already, you're probably close to it.  Moreover, if he doesn't learn how to budget now, when will he learn?  What will he do when you're gone?

Look, I know it's incredibly hard.  You want to help your dear son, and it's painful to see him struggle.  Just today, my husband expressed some grief and remorse for feeling like he "caused" his daughter's troubles.  I had to remind him that for probably the first time in her adult life, she was doing what she was supposed to be doing (i.e. working, taking care of herself, etc.), and that I was proud of her for that.  I'm also proud of my husband for giving her the time and space to carve out a life for herself, that doesn't involve mooching off us, blaming us and hating us for making her feel like a dependent child.  Just to gauge my husband's reaction, I said:  "I don't think she should live with us again."  And he agreed that it wasn't a good idea, not for us, and especially not for her.  I mentioned that because I fear that she might be running out of money soon--surely she has been living off of some graduation money and the proceeds from selling her car--and I half expect her to rebound.  But right now my husband agrees that she shouldn't come back to live with us.  The test will probably be what happens if she begs him.  We'll see.  I really, really hope he doesn't relent and doesn't bully me into letting her back in, because it doesn't work.  Right now, I'm hoping for the best.

And here's another potential take-away:  my stepdaughter didn't take suicide off the table until she was told by doctors that, if she attempted suicide once again, she would be involuntarily committed, and in essence, she'd lose her freedom.  I think that's when it hit home with her.  Her dad and I could have told her that, but she wouldn't listen.  She had to experience it for herself and hear it from doctors to be convinced.  Only when she hit bottom and was "ready" to save her life (and freedoms) did she do the therapeutic work and turn her life around.  In other words, it's not up to us at all.  I think there's nothing we can do or say to convince them.  But the longer we enable their unhealthy habits--staying unemployed, wasting money, self-medicating with illicit substances, etc.--the longer it takes them to realize that they need to make some changes to get better.

I think your son needs you to be calm and strong, so that he can be strong too.  OK?

Oh, and another idea for you.  I think I've probably advised before to "slow walk," meaning slow down your responses.  For conversations, that might mean letting calls go to voicemail and getting back to your son when it's convenient for you, say, the next day at 5 pm.  That way, you give him some time to self-regulate, and you have a natural stopping point ("Gotta go make dinner, talk to you later").  You could take a similar approach to monetary requests.  Any time he asks for money, make it your automatic response to say, "I need to think about that."  I'd generally advise not to bail him out, but if you can't do that, then at least SLOW DOWN the flow of money.  You could say, "I absolutely can't pay you anything until my next paycheck/until the first of the month."  That way, you buy time, and you give him a chance to solve the problem himself.  If you feel that shutting down the parental ATM is too harsh, then I'd say you might try something else.  One option could be that you set up an emergency fund for him.  Maybe you set up a joint account and say you'll fund it to the tune of $50 dollars per week, provided that he also adds $50 per week (if he adds nothing or makes a withdrawal, you don't add anything until he puts it back).  If you both stick to the plan for a year, by the end of the year he'll have over $5,000 in the account.  At that point you could sign over the account to him, and hopefully by then he'll have learned the simple habit of saving for emergencies.  How does that sound?

[Notwendy]

You also can think of yourself. I know someone who is an enabler and can not say "no" to her daughter.  I don't think she has BPD- but I  think she may have some NPD tendencies. The daughter is in her 40's now, employed, and earns a decent living but continuously lives above her means and then her mother bails her out.

It may have been more possible for the mother to do this when she was employed but now she is retired. She is also getting older and could use some help at home, but her nest egg is smaller, due to giving the daughter money.

While we kids didn't go without our needs being met, I saw the stress my father was under over finances and BPD mother continued to spend. He was the wage earner in the family. Later, when she was spending her own nest egg too fast, she also didn't seem to have any sense of restraint, even if it was potentially harming her.

So, not only is giving your son money possibly not really helping, it's also not good for you and your H. I can also understand your H's being concerned about you giving your son money. It's the nest egg for both of you.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[JsMom]

Zachira - I will investigate MI - thanks for suggesting it

Notwendy - yes lots of trauma and drama in my childhood.  You gave me something new to consider about my Mom. She had it rough with 4 young kids and a mentally ill husband. She did enable, she also fought with his disease and she didn't protect me. I get she need to breathe and function in the middle of ot all.

CC43 - I'm 71 and receive a small social security as I was self employed until I was 40. I don't have a large resource to draw from and honestly I don't want to anymore.  Easier said than done. I do love your reminder to "slow walk". It is also true my son needs me to be calm and strong.- that will help us both.
Also, I'm sorry you're still dealing with the unexpected struggles this illness creates. Your husband finds much strength and clarity from you, I'm sure. I recently had my husband read about what it's like for a person with bpd. In the past he didn't understand  or want to try. Though he's clear and strong that my son is the one who needs to figure out his life on his own, I saw my husband's expression look very pained and saddened when he read it. We love our people, and want the best but have no control. 

[Notwendy]

CC43 - I'm 71 and receive a small social security as I was self employed until I was 40. I don't have a large resource to draw from and honestly I don't want to anymore. 

It's not even about wanting to do that- it would compromise your own retirement and nest egg if you did.

Consider that your son has about 20-25 more "working" years ahead of him. If he spends all his money and gets into trouble- he can financially recover, if he chooses to, even if it's a challenge.

I understand your empathy for anyone with BPD. It's very difficult for the person and I understand wanting to help. What I do know, from seeing my parents, is that money doesn't solve the BPD issues. My father wanted to ease my BPD mother's situation, and yet, she still had BPD. I saw that emotional pain in her-but she had all her material needs met and even more- and that didn't solve her BPD.

Your losing your financial security won't solve your son's BPD either. I hope you will find the stregnth to protect yourself, even if your son reacts in anger.

[JsMom]

Notwendy, 
I truly appreciate your advice. Because it's based on your sad but real experience.  Your text helped me to look beyond the immediate issue to where my enabling would lead me. 
It's true, rescuing won't cure bpd.

[JsMom]

I've been thinking a lot about my enabling and about my already using a big chunk of my retirement savings in doing that. Actually, I think I was feeling pretty self righteous if that's the correct term in caring more about my son than my savings. That makes me sad. It takes two to do this dance. Anyway, I'm going to be transparent. Several weeks ago  I told my son that I'd pay for his dbt therapy. I was told by my therapist  that there is a gold standard of dbt therapy in our area and I offered to pay for it. His insurance won't cover and it would use up 1/3 of my remaining savings for a year's worth of sessions.  I once again was willing to sacrifice until it hurt for him to be ok. Now, I'm starting to waffle after looking at my actions and "my" desire (or need) for him to be ok.  My question right now is, who is the sick one here? To top it off , he has Kaiser insurance and they do have dbt. It would give him the basics. The thing is he refuses to go there. I believe he didn't like the "group" experience he had 15yrs ago when his then wife pushed him to go. He told me you don't get the same therapist each time with Kaiser. I'm thinking IF he really wanted help he'd push past his opinion and give it a try.
He suggested Telahelp. He researched cost and it's 1/4 of the cost of "gold standard"  - yet, Idk if they are skilled in dbt.
Do any of you get yourself in over your head trying to "help"?

[CC43]

Hi Mom,

Here's what I see in your post.  The therapy program wasn't your son's idea, it was your therapist's.  You're the one who wants your son to do the DBT program, not him.  I would perhaps consider helping him out if he proposed the program, had applied for it and been accepted, had tried to pay, had showed some effort (e.g. by attending all scheduled sessions for a time)--and even then I probably wouldn't pay for all of the program, only a part of it, PROVIDED THAT he paid a meaningful amount himself, and only if I had the money to spare.  This is what I mean when I wrote, HE has to be the one to make things happen, not you.  Otherwise, my humble opinion is that he's not "ready" for the therapy, because you're the driver, not him.  I think there would be a better chance of success if he tried the program offered by his own insurance plan.

I know you're desperate, and only a parent would potentially put their financial life on the line to help their kids.  But I'm thinking of you here.  You need to take care of yourself now, and your son needs to be responsible for himself.  It doesn't mean you're the sick one; I think it just means you're operating in a FOG of fear, obligation and guilt.

You shouldn't have to feel you broke any promises here.  You could say, you did the math and changed your mind, because you can't afford it.  You're retired and have a fixed income, you don't have the money to spare.  But your son is working, he has insurance, he can get the help he needs.  All he has to do is choose to do that.  I think your job is mainly to provide moral support and be a calm, happy cheerleader.  I don't think you can do that if you raid your nest egg and put your retirement at risk.

Look, my husband delayed retirement for two years to "help" his BPD daughter.  Basically, he kept working so that she didn't have to.  He paid for numerous therapy sessions and programs that she skipped or quit early, and let me tell you, they were not cheap.  I think that is extremely mixed up.  But he was desperate.  Believe me, I get where you're coming from.  I really think your son would find a therapy program for himself if he wanted it.

[JsMom]

Thanks CC, I really appreciate your support and encouragement
It's true what you said, I'm more invested than he is. I feel relief at the thought of pulling back financially and prodding him to get help.