After 12 Baffling Years of Marriage, Could This Be the Answer?

[GrumpyHusband]

I love my wife.  She is sweet, intelligent, beautiful, and loyal.  We have been married for 12 years, and have been in counseling for about 9, on and off.  But the last year in particular has been a living hell for both of us.  Last week our therapist recommended Stop Walking on Eggshells to me (alone) and it has blown my mind.  My confusion has lessened, but it's not gone.

1)  When I go through the diagnostic checklist as dispassionately as possible, she scores about 8 or 9 hits.  12 is cause for concern, 16 is grave.
2)  Some of the symptoms are spot on (sudden violent anger).  But some seem to be the exact opposite (doesn't seem to be afraid to walk away, potential divorce has been brought up many times recently).
3)  How can I know if she really has a problem?  Maybe it really is me, like she says?  Or both of us?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to learning more.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[GrumpyHusband]

To elaborate a little more on what has been going on:  My wife constantly accuses me of psychological abuse.  She has a number of interconnected themes that she dwells on that make up a rather complex and oftentimes totally irrational story about how I marginalize her, insult her, fail to support her, hate her, etc.  One of the overarching themes is her employment.  Since we have been married she has had at least 12 jobs, never for more than a year, always quitting because of various slights against her at work.  Now, my wife did not grow up in the U.S. and speaks English with an accent (she also has several professional degrees and certifications, and she is very good at what she does).  I believe her that she has experienced some very unpleasant and toxic coworkers.  My suggestion has always been to learn how to coexist with these people, since you will find them in any job and they cannot always be avoided.  In short, this has led to her belief that my sense of her worth is tied to her employment:  if she has a job, I love her and treat her well, if she is unemployed I mistreat her.  This is an article of faith for her now, and nothing I do or say can seem to overcome it.  In fact, she has repeated this so much I almost believe it myself.  Is it true that subconsciously I really don't value or love her?  Can she see my feelings better than I can myself?  It is a source of confusion for me.

...more to come...

[CC43]

Hi Grumpy,

Welcome to the group, I'm glad you found us.  That your therapist and you suspect BPD is likely for a very good reason.  Though BPD is on a spectrum, many of its themes are predictable:  the erratic emotions, seeing things in black or white, feeling slighted at every turn, the seemingly endless traumas, the fear of abandonment, the low self-esteem and plaguing self-doubt.  Some associated behaviors are typical here:  sudden, angry outbursts that seem unwarranted and/or over-the-top, impulsive quitting (jobs, relationships), volatile relationships (estrangement from family, loss of close friends, interpersonal conflict at the workplace), and assuming ill intent in others, bordering on paranoia.  Sometimes I think it comes down to having very thin skin (figuratively of course), which means she feels everything intensely, and she also has trouble healing from her wounds.  She has a tendency to dredge up ancient grievances, picking at her scabs over and over again, rather than deal with the present.  She has difficulty controling her emotions, which really shows up in important relationships, and often in her work.  I think that's because she experiences life as an endless series of traumas, and so she has a trauma-based, fight-or-flight response to ordinary situations.  Does all that ring any bells?  I think it's classic BPD, even if your wife is probably high functioning, given her certifications and professional stature.

One thing that stands out in your post is your mention of things getting worse in the last year, making your life a living hell.  I'm wondering, what do you think might have changed?  In my experience, big changes and/or increased stress in general can be a BPD trigger.  Granted, a period of unemployment can be stressful for anyone, if only for the uncertainty and lack of a structured routine, not to mention the loss of income and lack of "purpose."  By the same token, jobs can be stressful, too.  Maybe your wife's job was too demanding, and she felt incapable and insecure?  Or maybe there were other changes, such as a sibling having a first child, and she feels insanely jealous?  Or maybe a sickness or death of someone close to her?  Or a move; maybe her parents sold her childhood home, and she feels "abandoned," even if you or I wouldn't bat an eyelash over that?

Anyway, one thing I've noticed with BPD is that oftentimes, accusations--especially baseless accusations--are really projections about their own insecurities.  That's because they are ruminating so much about something, that it's always top of mind, and so that theme emerges as projection when they engage with you when emotions are running high.  If you listen for the feelings behind what your wife is saying, sometimes you can catch a glimpse of what is really bothering her.  I can't help but notice that she's accusing you of not loving her and being "abusive" when she doesn't have a job.  To me, that might be code for, "I feel worthless when I'm not working, I'm useless and a failure, I don't even know who I am anymore, I'm unloveable."  What I see are themes of deep insecurity.  What you could do is reassure her.

It may be that your wife's job or hours are just too stressful, because she spends so much mental energy thinking about supposedly "toxic" coworkers instead of focusing on doing her job.  I agree with you that there are difficult coworkers everywhere, but unless they report to you, there's probably little you can do about them, and the best course of action is to focus and be professional at all times.  Yet your wife just might not be able to handle this.  Maybe she needs fewer hours, or to work on smaller teams, or maybe as an individual contributor?  I find that pwBPD typically need extra downtime, because the stress (and insecurity) they feel in a work situation is super-sized.

Having written that, no matter how much you want to help, you can't control or cure BPD.  That's in your wife's hands.  The only person you control is you, and how you respond to your wife's behavior.  I'd say, if your wife's meanness and accusations are stressing you out and riling you up, you need to take a break.  You can say as much, "This is stressing me out, I need to get some air."  That way, you give yourself a break to calm down, while at the same time, you give your wife extra time and space to get control of her emotions.  In addition, here we recommend not to JADE, short for justify, argue, defend and explain, when your wife is in a state of emotional distress.  That's because JADEing deals with facts, while your wife's currency is emotions.  When she's raging mad, she can't process anything you have to say anyway.  You wait until she's calm to bring up any facts, OK?

Again, welcome, there are many members here with experience and ideas.

[Notwendy]

Many people here have family members who fit the characteristics of BPD but don't have an official diagnosis. Still, the tools here help to cope with the behaviors as they are relationship tools in general.

One aspect of BPD is to project uncomfortable feelings and an unstable sense of self. Many high functioning professionals have a part of their sense of self invested in their work, and also some cultures place a lot of value in this. It is possible that when your wife isn't employed, she feels badly about herself and may be projecting her feelings at you, (the closest person to her) and possibly co-workers too.

Your statement- there are difficult people in every job situation- is often true.  Jobs require both technical and interpersonal skills. PwBPD can be competent in the job but not able to maintain one due to their interpersonal issues.

However, when your wife comes to you complaining about someone in her job, what she's seeking is validation for her feelings first. When you say something like "difficult people are everywhere" to her, it's your attempt at helping her feel better but to her, it feels invalidating, because it's a "you can fix it" statement- rather than a "I hear you" one.  While you don't want to go into a big complaint fest over it- a change in her response from "you can fix this" to "yes, I hear you" may help in these interactions.

While it may be that the spouse or family member has BPD, if they were to go to therapy, it would have to be their choice, and sometimes they don't choose it. Yet, the spouse/family member can benefit from their own therapy- to help them cope with it and for their own self growth. So the answer- how can you know if your wife has a problem or is it you- maybe both because whether or not she actually has BPD- this is something you are seeing is an issue for the two of you. Individual counseling, where you can speak freely to somone objective can be of help.

[ForeverDad]

3)  How can I know if she really has a problem?  Maybe it really is me, like she says?  Or both of us?

Many newly arrived members ask this question, Is it really me?  Often we can read the posts and detect if there is something "off" in the perceptions.  But merely asking the question is an indicator it's not you.  Reasonably normal people are willing and able to ask "Is it me?"  In this scenario, people with BPD traits (pwBPD) typically have high levels of Denial, Projection, Blaming, Blame Shifting and more.

It sounds like the counselor detected indications of BPD in your spouse and pointed you to Stop Walking on Eggshells.  It may not be an official diagnosis.  Many of us never learned of a clear diagnosis and so we have had to make our own observations and conclusions as to Why we are experiencing this discord.

In my own marriage (and divorce) I have never learned of a diagnosis for my spouse.  When we first separated, the court ordered us both to get Psych Evals to get a quickie assessment.  Mine was done by a grad student and - no surprise - I had "anxiety" which was reported to the court and her lawyer.  My spouse?  We never got a report and the court moved on.  To this day, even after years in and out of family court dealing with custody and parenting concerns, I still don't know whether she even complied with that court order.

I too suspect something changed in the last couple years for you.  In my case, we had been married over a dozen years with gradually increasing conflict with her co-workers but when we had a child everything suddenly got much worse than before.

[GrumpyHusband]

erratic emotions, seeing things in black or white, feeling slighted at every turn, the seemingly endless traumas, the fear of abandonment, the low self-esteem and plaguing self-doubt.  Some associated behaviors are typical here:  sudden, angry outbursts that seem unwarranted and/or over-the-top, impulsive quitting (jobs, relationships), volatile relationships (estrangement from family, loss of close friends, interpersonal conflict at the workplace), and assuming ill intent in others, bordering on paranoia.  Sometimes I think it comes down to having very thin skin (figuratively of course), which means she feels everything intensely, and she also has trouble healing from her wounds.  She has a tendency to dredge up ancient grievances, picking at her scabs over and over again, rather than deal with the present.  She has difficulty controling her emotions, which really shows up in important relationships, and often in her work.

Yes, except for low self-esteem (it seems to me) all of that describes her perfectly, at least on the bad days.  As for what made things worse recently, I probably take the blame for that.  After several years of hearing the same complaints over and over, without her taking anyone's advice on how to improve her situation, I became a lot more strident in my suggestions to her and didn't pull back when she asked me to.  The intent to help her was lost to us both in the frustration of trying to force our viewpoints on each other.  Now we are both living through the evolving fallout of those moments.  Without belaboring all the details, I'm kind of stuck about how to improve the situation.  And having found this quasi-diagnosis, it almost makes it too convenient to dismiss her complaints as the ravings of lunacy (which honestly some of them cross that line).  Anyway, thanks for listening everyone, we are still both going to therapy, usually separately.

[Pook075]

Many newly arrived members ask this question, Is it really me?  Often we can read the posts and detect if there is something "off" in the perceptions.  But merely asking the question is an indicator it's not you.  Reasonably normal people are willing and able to ask "Is it me?"  In this scenario, people with BPD traits (pwBPD) typically have high levels of Denial, Projection, Blaming, Blame Shifting and more.

To piggyback off that thought, it's also important to look at the opposite- does your wife ever think, "Maybe this is all in my head, maybe it's actually me?!?"

You questioning yourself is logical and honestly, helpful.  That's how we grow as humans, we self-reflect and adjust what needs to be adjusted.  Yet you're telling us that your wife sees this as an absolute- it's definitely what she thinks and there can be no other answer.  Thinking in absolutes is a prevailing BPD trait- you always do this or you never do that.

If your wife can't think in terms of self when it comes to these issues, it's a colossal red flag and a signal that yes, this could absolutely be BPD we're talking about.  But like Wendy said, we don't need a diagnosis to work with BPD traits within our lives. 

It's the same as if your partner had a fever, body chills, a sore throat, and a congested cough.  We don't need a doctor to tell us she's sick with a cold or the flu.  We know that already and we know how to treat it with home remedies.  The only reason we go to the doctor is for that antibiotic or the good prescription meds that work faster.

So we treat this the exact same way, we learn to communicate in a different way with our loved ones to avoid the crazy arguments, to validate their unstable feelings, and to bring peace back to our homes.  Does that make sense?

[Notwendy]

There is a difference between self esteem and sense of self. It's subtle but- low self esteem is a constant feeling of worthlessness. Sense of self is about boundaries- knowing what is "you" and what isn't "you". It's also based on several aspects of you that don't change, even if circumstances change.

Job loss can be devastating but even if it did happen- a person doesn't disappear. Someone might be an accountant- and they still are one, they still have the skills. For someone with BPD, this sense of self is shaky, a criticism, job loss, feelings of shame- might feel like self destruction.

My BPD mother had aspect of NPD. She had a strong sense of entitlement and superiority. Yet, she also needed constant proof of this to validate that, by having people act in service to her, by spending money.  Underneath it all, without this external proof, her sense of self was unstable because she relied on this external proof of it. One would see her as having high self esteem and entitlement, but that outward appearance didn't match her emotional self.

PwBPD perceive themselves as from victim perspective. In victim perspective, they are not accountable. The "benefit" to them is not that they do this on purpose- it protects them from feeling shame which is intollerable to them. When your wife complains about someone at work, she perceives this from victim perspective. When you try to help her "fix" this, it feels to her like contradicting this position, and feels like an attack. Your intentions to help are not received like this and the two of you end up in that circular argument.

Understandable that you want this situation to change for the better but you've seen that approaching this logically with your wife doesn't work because these are her feelings and feelings are not logical. To someone with BPD, feelings feel like fact.

Maybe some things she says are outlandish but being dismissive will feel hurtful to her. You also don't have to go along with what you think is lunacy but in the moment, it's not lunacy to her. The benefit to you to see what isn't valid is that you won't react emotionally to it as much. If something isn't true about you, you won't feel as much a need to defend it (JADE). Reacting just adds to the drama.

How this goes is unpredictable. Whether things get better or not, isn't possible to know. A first step is to step away from the drama dynamics, learn about BPD, learn relationship tools like how to validate and not to add fuel to the drama. It seems like your therapist has an idea about the situation. This is the person with whom you can share personal details and so they can guide you on how to proceed with specifics, while you learn about BPD dynamics.