Grown BPD daughter imposing extended silent treatments

[Parents! Get help here!]

I could use advice on the sort of personal limits (boundaries) we can realistically request, and what "consequences" we might use to incentivize my high-performance BPD adult daughter to respect any boundary we request. All suggestions I've seen involve some form of disconnecting.

But disconnecting--the Silent Treatment--is my daughter's go-to strategy for family blowups, instigated mostly by her. The most recent has persisted since Sept. 6, on her younger sister and me.

We don't beg. I suggested that the sisters engage in mutual discussion, no apology required upfront (both sisters wanted one) but welcome during the conversation, not to win but to compromise, understand each other's viewpoint, reconcile or agree to disagree, and move on. Her sister quickly accepted and reached out, with no response. Instead, BPD daughter extended the silent treatment to me--for bias favoring her sister (her most basic trigger).

If/when she reconnects, I'd ask first for us to talk about the conflict. If I get that, I'd ask as a personal limit to resume normal family relations--don't impose the silent treatment in response to family disputes. Is this request too ambitious? And what consequences could help reinforce such a request with someone who favors disconnecting?  She likely to respond by reimposing the silent treatment...

Meanwhile, should I reach out to her again or wait for her? She's also ignored her father's sweet attempt to do that. She's likely waiting for me to apologize. But IMO that would reinforce this behavior.  It's so hard to know what to do. It's so sad.

[Hopefu11]

I could use advice on the sort of personal limits (boundaries) we can realistically request, and what "consequences" we might use to incentivize my high-performance BPD adult daughter to respect any boundary we request. All suggestions I've seen involve some form of disconnecting.

But disconnecting--the Silent Treatment--is my daughter's go-to strategy for family blowups, instigated mostly by her. The most recent has persisted since Sept. 6, on her younger sister and me.

We don't beg. I suggested that the sisters engage in mutual discussion, no apology required upfront (both sisters wanted one) but welcome during the conversation, not to win but to compromise, understand each other's viewpoint, reconcile or agree to disagree, and move on. Her sister quickly accepted and reached out, with no response. Instead, BPD daughter extended the silent treatment to me--for bias favoring her sister (her most basic trigger).

If/when she reconnects, I'd ask first for us to talk about the conflict. If I get that, I'd ask as a personal limit to resume normal family relations--don't impose the silent treatment in response to family disputes. Is this request too ambitious? And what consequences could help reinforce such a request with someone who favors disconnecting?  She likely to respond by reimposing the silent treatment...

Meanwhile, should I reach out to her again or wait for her? She's also ignored her father's sweet attempt to do that. She's likely waiting for me to apologize. But IMO that would reinforce this behavior.  It's so hard to know what to do. It's so sad.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[CC43]

Hi Hopeful,

You've come to the right place.  Many people here are familiar with extended silent treatments.  With adult BPD children, the silent treatment can sometimes morph into estrangement, which can be both worrying and tremendously sad.

Your post brings up a couple of topics that I'd like to comment on.  First is the concept of boundaries.  You ask how to go about "requesting" a new boundary, as well as how to "incentivize" your BPD daughter to follow it.  Here, we know that pwBPD don't like boundaries, not one bit.  When confronted with a new boundary, pwBPD might react with an "extintion burst," an amping up of behaviors (yelling, accusations, violence) that historically got them what they wanted (attention, concessions, money).  Anyway, I'd invite you to think about boundaries in a completely different way.  The boundary is for YOU, to protect YOU from your daughter's negative or destructive behaviors.  The distinction is very important, because the reality is, you have no control over your daughter's behavior, especially as she is now an adult, and she makes all her own choices.  The person you control is YOU, and your reaction to your daughter's behavior.

I'd ask, which of your daughter's behaviors has been especially difficult for you?  Since you mentioned a recent blowup, maybe you start there.  If during a typical blowup, your daughter texts obscenities, makes false accusations or whatever, your boundary could be:  I will not engage in a conversation if she's screaming at me or being disrespectful.  That means, you don't dignify a disrespectful text with a reply; you delete it like spam, because it is spam.  You engage only if she's being respectful and reasonably calm.  If an altercation happens in person, you react by quietly leaving the room so that you can calm down, and in the process you give your daughter a "time out" to calm down too.  You don't "announce" your boundary, you don't explain it, you just do it.  If she follows you around, looking to continue the fight, then you say something non-accusatory like, "I'm getting some air" and leave again.  That way, you protect yourself from toxic arguments, and you give your daughter an adult time out, too.  Once again, the boundary is about you, to protect you.  If you're driving together in a car and she starts in on you, unhinged, then you can't really get away to protect yourself.  In that case, my recommendation is to "gray rock," and sit as still and silent as a gray rock.  That way, you don't add emotional fuel to the fire of her ire.  Chances are, if you don't engage, she might calm down.

Then you wrote, "I suggested that the sisters engage in mutual discussion, no apology required upfront . . . "  Now I know you're the parent, you want your daughters to get along, and you want to fix the relationship, right?  I get it, I really do.  But I think that since your daughters are both adults, I'd recommend staying out of it completely.  It seems to me that getting into a triangle like this is bound to backfire.  You might read about the Karpman triangle and the Victim-Rescuer-Persecutor dynamics elsewhere on these boards.

Anyway, I get the sense that you're a doer and a fixer.  So am I.  We approach most issues in life by analyzing first, devising a plan and then working tirelessly at it until it's fixed.  Unfortunately, BPD isn't something we can control, let alone fix.  We can't make her feel better, no matter how much we'd like to.  There's no magic wand we can wave to make her ill feelings disappear, to erase all her grievances.  It's entirely up to her.  But what we do control is ourselves.  For starters, we can model for her what a healthy adult's life looks like.  That includes taking care of ourselves, our home, our finances, our marriage, our friendships, our general health and wellness.  If we take care of ourselves, we'll be Happy Mom, not Sad Mom blinded by a FOG of fear, obligation and guilt.  Happy Mom is ready to engage with respectful discussions, she's forgiving and optimistic.  Happy Mom treats others as she expects to be treated--with respect, kindness and empathy.  But Happy Mom doesn't engage when her daughter is being mean, because Happy Mom doesn't deserve meanness.  She waits patiently for her daughter to calm down.  Besides, when BPD daughter is riled up, she's not listening to anything you have to say anyway.  That's because her emotions have literally hijacked her brain.

My approach with my adult BPD stepdaughter is to respect her choices.  If she doesn't want contact, then I don't contact her.  However I don't outright exclude her, either--she's welcome at holidays, and I'll send her a short text here and there, such as to wish her a happy birthday.  Mostly I just wait patiently until she's ready for contact again.  It's up to her.  In the meantime, if she's out there, making it on her own, taking responsibility for her life, then I'm happy for her.

[Hopefu11]

Hi there, thanks very much for the reply. Yes, I'm aware that the boundary is for ME, to protect Me from your daughter's negative behaviors. That's what I'm hoping for! My daughter's BPD is mild compared to cases I've heard of, so it may be possible to influence some of her behavior. I got "involved" because BPD daughter called me crying, asked me to talk to her sister. My involvement was to suggest they talk, without expressing an opinion or trying to solve it myself. That's not what upset her. She got mad because weeks later I quietly chose not to go on the "girls' trip" non-BDP daughter had spearheaded many weeks before, but was now excluded from. I just couldn't happily party under those circumstances. So... I got the silent treatment too. Here's the thing... I can't show my opposition to the silent treatment by walking away or being still as a gray rock (a good idea in many circumstances). She's already gone. I could refuse to talk or engage when she reconnects...but is that a good idea?  Stop Walking on Eggshells suggests having a conversation about boundaries (1 at a time) and to think about the actions you might take when the boundaries are ignored--thus "Incentivizing them" to make an effort to conform.   What I hoped to figure out is-- if and when she returns to the family this time, should I have a discussion about the silent treatment? Try to impose a boundary to protect myself? When she doesn't accept that boundary, how should I behave? Unfortunately, it always seems to come down to one thing--disconnect, separate. The one thing I'm hoping to discourage.

[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family!  I'm glad you found us.

For BPDs, there's a few things going on at once.  First, there are unstable feelings that lead to shame, worry, regret, and instability.  Those feelings are always there, or at least nearby, and it is the core of relationship problems.

Second, when a BPD becomes stressed, triggered, challenged, or whatever word we want to use to describe real world struggles, they can often think in a disorded way.  For instance, "Mom said this to me- and she said something like that when I was 12 as well.  That proves that she's hated me my entire life and only cares about my sister."

See what I did there?  Two random things can be used as "ironclad proof" of something that's not even real.  That's disordered thinking and low self esteem combined to make one heck of a mess.

So where does that leave you?  For the exact situation you described, here's what I'd do.  Nothing.  Do nothing at all. 

Your BPD daughter is an adult and her feelings were hurt.  So whatever you do to "fix the problem" only makes things worse in the long-term.  Why?  Because if you do "fix the problem" with her sister, then anything that happens afterwards is automatically your fault.  You forced her to reconcile, and that proves....bla bla bla.

On the other side of that though, if you try to "fix things" and fail, then you're exactly where you're at now- facing the same punishment as your other daughter.  Now you have two problems to fix, and your proposed solution is to do the exact same thing that got you put into timeout in the first place.

The "easiest" way to fix things is doing nothing.  If she wants to be mad at <whoever>, then let her be mad.  That forces her to be an adult and make adult decisions- do I go to Thanksgiving with family this year, or do I double-down with my protests so everyone will run and beg me to attend? 

That's manipulation and by playing the game on her terms, it's only making these instances worse since it's learned behavior.  If I'm mad, sister will apologize and mom will placate me.  That means if I stay mad, they'll always be at my beckoned call to do whatever I want so they'll feel like they made things right.  But then I can just get mad again and they'll reward me some more.

You're literally teaching her disordered mind to think that way by insisting that everyone apologizes and we'll be one big happy family again.  It just won't work, we've all tried and regretted it.  It never, ever works that way because she's mentally ill and processes thoughts differently than you or I.

One last thing- the "let's sit down and talk this out" is the worst idea.  Why?  As soon as you bring it up, her mind jumps right back to how she felt insulted and betrayed in the moment.  It's like pouring gas on the fire and it makes things substantially worse.  I get why you'd think that- to find resolution and move on, but your BPD kid is all but incapable of doing that.

Often, you can hold out for an apology...or you can save the relationship.  It's completely unfair but at the same time, you're not mentally ill and your daughter is.  So it often takes you being the adult in the room, regardless of how ridiculous the situation may be, in order to keep things from escalating.

I hope that helps and again, welcome to the family!

[Pook075]

What I hoped to figure out is-- if and when she returns to the family this time, should I have a discussion about the silent treatment? Try to impose a boundary to protect myself? When she doesn't accept that boundary, how should I behave? Unfortunately, it always seems to come down to one thing--disconnect, separate. The one thing I'm hoping to discourage.

Let's roleplay this- you and me.  You're you and I'm your daughter.

You: I'd like to talk about the recent silent treatment and how we can avoid that in the future.

Me: I don't know what you're talking about.  I've been busy.

You:  I completely get that you were mad at me and you needed some space.  That's fine.  But I'd appreciate if you can at least answer me when I try checking in from time to time.

Me:  I don't know what you're talking about, I never did that.

Do you see what's happening here?  You're focused on logical, step by step communication and she's deflecting the entire thing.  Why?  Because you're trying to force her into (a) admitting she was wrong or even worse (b) that she over-reacted for a month straight over absolutely nothing.

This happens because when a BPD becomes disordered, their logical brain all but turns off.  Everything they say and do in the moment is based on their current feelings and emotions.  That's why they sometimes say something CRAZY and an hour later, they act like it never even happened.  In their minds, maybe it didn't...it was an emotional outburst that they could remember in a completely different way.

For this specific boundary, "If you cut me out and stop responding, I will __________________________________." 

Fill in the blank.  What could you actually do?  You can't cut her off because you're already cut off.  You could withhold financial assistance if that's taking place, or ask for a car back in your name, turn off a cell phone...stuff like that.  But is it worth it?  To her, that would be a serious escalation which will receive an even bigger one back towards you.  As soon as you enact that boundary, you're going to get 100% raw emotion in the moment and 0% rational thinking.

That's why I said in the other post, the best thing to do for this particular boundary is nothing.  If she wants to pout and be reclusive, so be it.  Time will fix that issue all on it's own.

[CC43]

Hi,

I agree with Pook on this one. I think it's best to do nothing, and wait patiently.  You can't force your daughter to reconnect with you, let alone apologize.  If you expect an apology, you'll probably be disappointed anyway.  My guess is that she'll reach out again when she needs something from you.  In the meantime, you keep the lines of communications open.  If she reaches out and pretends like nothing happened, that's probably the best possible scenario in my opinion, and you could pick up where you left off.  You see, it's uncommon for pwBPD to apologize, because their narrative and their very identity center around feeling victimized.  In other words, she needs time apart because she's hurting and/or feeling shame, and though her perception of events is probably highly distorted and self-serving, just know that that's BPD.

Since it sounds like your BPD daughter is high-functioning, I'd say, that's wonderful.  I'm in a similar situation right now with my adult BPD stepdaughter.  She's mostly estranged from her dad and me, but she has been functioning reasonably well on her own, for the first time in her adult life.  Though she still struggles enormously with volatile emotions and handling stress, she's muddling along and working through it.  She'll contact her dad from time to time, to ask for money or help, and to vent her distress about a new job.  Now, I know he can't stand to see his daughter in distress, almost sounding unhinged.  But here's the thing.  I think new job jitters are NORMAL.  Running short on cash when starting out is NORMAL.  It's NORMAL for a young adult to feel a little scared, unsteady, uncertain how the world of employment actually works.  It's NORMAL for young adults to seek some separation from parents.  It's NORMAL to experience some friction with co-workers, and maybe make some mistakes at first.  But here's the best part.  In my opinion, the latest conversation between my husband and stepdaughter stayed in the present, about present difficulties and strategies to overcome them.  In other words, it wasn't a classic BPD conversation spewing rage and blame at parents for ancient grievances, and prompting an impulsive decision (e.g. to quit the new job, to quit a relationship).  That is progress, big-time.  And so my advice to my husband, and to you too, is to try to stay calm, and assume the best right now.  Assume that your daughter has good intentions until she proves otherwise.  Assume that she's taking a temporary break from family because she needs the space to work out her issues and ill feelings on her own.  Assume that though she'll struggle a bit, she's coping independently, until she proves otherwise.  She's busy living her life, and you're happy for her.  If she decides not to celebrate Thanksgiving with you, that's fine, it's her choice, maybe she's celebrating with friends.  I know, I know, you're worried and hurt.  But I'd say, try to give your daughter the benefit of the doubt.  I think that when you assume the worst, sometimes she's picking up on those negative vibes from you and taking them to heart, eroding her confidence and leading her to stay away even longer.  If you betray your anger or disappointment about the "silent treatment," you're probably giving her exactly what she wants:  proof that she's hurting you, because you "deserve" it, according to her distorted BPD feelings.

You might think, I didn't raise my daughter to be this disrespectful, or to be so self-centered and entitled, to be so jealous of her sibling, to never apologize, or whatever.  I'm sure you didn't raise her that way.  But if she has BPD, she has enormous difficulties with close relationships.  The reality is that there's so much emotional baggage with family, particularly with the same-sex parent, that she can't really learn from you if she hasn't already learned it by now.  My theory is she has to learn things "the hard way."  Most of the time, she has to learn them on her own.  I guess the consequence of all this is that your role needs to evolve from nurturer/provider/fixer, to one of being a cheerleader or wise counselor of sorts, but only when your daughter specifically asks you for advice.  Otherwise, you're just a Happy Mom, supportive from a distance.

Just my two cents.