Xw inserting twisted logic into new court order

[bus boy]

I posted about my new court order and it clearly states " any access missed by the father that is beyond his control is to be made up". Pretty simple. I text Xw on February 2, at noon stating I came home from work early bc I had the flu and would have to cancel access for that evening. 2 different times I tried to reschedule and Xw says it's not time to be made up. She text me " you cancelled 2hr before access, the order says something out of your control, this was within your control." I can't wrap my head around this logic. Am I the one missing something? I canceled Bc I had the flu and couldn't do the access. How is this in my control? We have no control over when we are going to be sick. In fact why the hassle on making up lost time.

[GaGrl]

This is why orders that aren't specific don't end up working well with PDs... ."reasonable access," and "reasonable phone calls," etc.

You have too much room for interpretation. You probably need something saying that all changes to visitation to be agreed upon via email, with make-up time specified.  If she doesn't agree, you have your paper trail.

Sudden sickness is a tough one to justify.

[formflier]

Start making notes about how to rewrite it. 

Make sure it applies both ways.  If you say due to sickness... .guess what.  She will start claiming it... whenever she feels like it.

So... .sickness with a doctors note should suffice.  If you are sick enough to cancel/reschedule... .you should be sick enough to go to doctor.  The doctor barrier should keep her from abusing it.

Even then... .you may have to enforce it a time or two in court... .before she "gets it".

FF

[bus boy]

Hi Gagrl, thank you for your reply. " sudden sickness is a tough one to justify" I don't follow what you mean by that.

[GaGrl]

Hi Gagrl, thank you for your reply. " sudden sickness is a tough one to justify" I don't follow what you mean by that.

FF was more clear than I was... ."sudden sickness" would be something that happens/comes on so quickly that you have little time to rearrange a schedule.  It would be different than, say, a medical procedure that would mean you couldn't have your custody time as planned for a couple of days.

The main thing is to be aware of what FF points out... .if you insist on make-up time "due to sickness," you can be sure that she will start jerking around the schedule and using her own "due to sickness" as an excuse.

Your agreement is just not very specific, and it needs to be a lot tighter.

[formflier]

More clear... .and put limits on it.

Perhaps 1 per month due to sickness without a doctors note... .then maybe 2 per month with a doctors note.  After that... .it's probably too much jerking around of the kids schedule and you need to focus on getting better.

Clarity AND LIMITS when you are talking about make up time are critical. 

She will be able to twist things beyond all belief... .you won't be able to out think her crazy. 

Plus... .in all seriousness... you should try to build goodwill between you two.  Yeah... I'll give you a second to recover from fainting.

Notice I didn't say anything about it working... or her reciprocating.  You WILL feel much better about yourself about taking the high road and explaining your point of view of that to your kids (do NOT explain her point of view... .stick to high road).

":)addy really missed you guys yesterday when I was out sick.  I'd love to make up the time with you, however... .your schedule is important to me, I want you guys to focus on xyz activity... .we'll do something extra special this weekend."

Thoughts?

FF

[bus boy]

Thank you guy's. S10 sure let me know I missed a visit and I did explain to him the way you described FF.

Xw has twisted and manuplated every court order. Sadly the judge we had in the past retired so a judge totally unfamiliar with the problems I've faced for the past 8 years were treated as a bickering couple who couldn't agree. My case is very well known in our local court house. It stands alone. I am going to start an aggressive letter writing campaign to my local MLA with a copy of the forensic physiologist note stating that Xw shows the signs of a personality disorder and very high possabality she suffers from a disorder and will carry this into r/s's throught out her life. That was one meeting and a series of tests showed all of those results. I feel unless something is done to open the family courts eyes to PD's that it's not a bickering couple it's a healthy person up against an emotionally disordered person. I am also writing a letter to the Supreme Court judge of family court. He has been through the very sad wringer of fighting for his own access.

[formflier]

I am also writing a letter to the Supreme Court judge of family court. He has been through the very sad wringer of fighting for his own access.

Please run this by your attorney first.

Are the test results court ordered and "in the record".  If not... this is something to consider doing.

How many times has the order been updated since divorce has been final?

FF

[bus boy]

It is an official court ordered parental impact assessment. On the record. The court order has been updated 4 or 5 times with plenty of warnings and put in the court order that court costs will be imposed. It is very difficult to go up against such a high functioning person like Xw. People seem to believe her. She sits up on the stand looking so saintly and lies like a trooper. Her L is very unprofessional, my L was very displeased with the way I was talked to. Xw L was sarcastic to me, talked to me like I was trash, she twisted the evidence. Family court is fighting for the best of the children, Xw L fought for Xw. My L fought for s10. I told my L everything about me, no surprises no lies but I am learning the hard way that the best lier wins in family court.

[formflier]

So you have seen here MO.  Best to only fight what you can prove.

Likely a better tactic is to be able to prove something, go to court and let her perjure herself on the stand, then bring out the proof (pictures, videos, emails... .etc etc).

Let your L do the rest.

In one of my legal matters I'm dealing with (non BPD thing)... my L confronted the witness with evidence and got them all twisted up on the stand.

The witness "changed their sworn testimony".  Our goal... .blow the credibility of the witness... .      Mission accomplished.

FF

[bus boy]

Thank you for your replies. Every bit of advice I get on here helps me a great deal. There was a time I would be to scared to challenge Xw, the court order. Now I think nothing of letting her know what she is doing is wrong.

[formflier]

  Now I think nothing of letting her know what she is doing is wrong.

Your thinking matters... .she is NOT the audience.  The judge is.  Sure it would be nice if SHE realized things about her actions, the point of court is to PROVE that to judge and get him to rule in your favor.

FF

[bus boy]

I was hoping my going to court would be over with this new order. Xw is only getting worse. She is absolutely horid. This is totally uncalled for. She tells her lawyer she is very willing to coparent, the emails Xw's L sends are very belittling like she is addressing a child. But behind the scenes Xw is a belittling abuser to deal with. Xw starts out nice and gets very sarcastic and belittling. Xw was always awful but ever since she assaulted my sister and my nephew she is on a whole new plane of horid. My request to pick s10 up early today for my weekend access was met with rudeness and to top it off she let her BF pick s10 up this afternoon, the request that was denied to me. Every one of my requests to pick s10 up at school, take him to soccer or anywhere in general or any way to be a father is always denied. I am always willing to be a hands on father always willing and offering to be there and help any way I can and Xw says no or doesn't answer than says in court I'm never there for s10 but her BF of the last year1/2 is picking s10 up here, there and everywhere, can come and go as he pleases with s10 looks after s10 all the time, and Xw says he is so nice to offer and help. He sat through court heard all the proven testimony, dozens of texts of her denying my requests or offering to help and he still gets involved where it should be me asked first than her BF but it's him first. It's very hard to grasp that I am blocked by Xw from being a hands on father to my son than she twists it that I'm not involved than lets her BF do what I should be doing and says how kind he is to offer to help carry the load of raising a child.

[formflier]

     

Now you know... .unfortunately... .that future orders should limit "requests"... .  There is no reasonably in this... .I'm really sorry you have to deal with it.

Hang in there.

FF

[bus boy]

Thank you. I'm hanging in good. Sometimes it's hard to wrap my normal brain around distorted thinking. If I vent on here, I don't vent on Xw and I am denying her supply.

[ForeverDad]

Now I think nothing of letting her know what she is doing is wrong.

Your thinking matters... .she is NOT the audience.  The judge is.  Sure it would be nice if SHE realized things about her actions, the point of court is to PROVE that to judge and get him to rule in your favor.

FF makes a very good point... .your xw is not listening to you, reasoning won't work on her, even if you plead it's for your child.  Knowing that, keep it simple, just inform her of your request in a non-emotional way, document it and her response and focus on how it can be presented to the judge.  A truism around here is that a judge is generally "less unfair" than an oppositional, obstructive ex.  Especially if you present your case well.

[bus boy]

Thank you ForeverDad. My last trip to family court I had everything documented, I printed my texts and had them well organized in a booklet. All the evidence was presented very well by my L. Sadly we don't have a family court judge anymore so I did not have the judge who was familiar with my case. The judge I had in the past knew the difficulties I was having and stern warnings were put in place to keep Xw in check. The judge I got was from away, old retired judge who viewed us as parents who couldn't get along, grow up get over it and start coparenting. My L pushed the points hard that I am very willing to coparent and stated the difficulties, presented the hard core evidence but the judge seemed oblivious to it all, at times he did want to hear about it. My L drove home to the judge the provisions that the past judge put in place were put in place for a reason, my L said to the judge that these provisions are rare and only put in place in extreme cases. It all seemed to fall on deaf ears. I had 4 court orders, the judge said he was going to make one court order. It is so confusing loosely worded, full of interpation. My L can't make head or tail of some of the wording.

[formflier]

  My L can't make head or tail of some of the wording.

Then... unfortunately... .cut you losses with this time in court and go back for clarification.  The L will know how to "politely ask" for clarification.

Is there any chance of your two lawyers to "clarify" the order and turn it into a "consent order".  Potentially that could be less expensive.

FF

[bus boy]

Yes, I think. Xw's L sent an email requesting that we all sit and discuss changes, I replied yes, that was 2 weeks ago heard nothing back since. I want to get this finished bc the RCMP want me to make a statement about Xw's physical assault on my sister and nephew. I have been after Xw with no success, to make changes, now she requests it and I don't hear back.

[formflier]

 
I would recommend that you let your lawyers handle this, without you guys present. 

Let your lawyer know your recommendations, see if they can some up with something acceptable to you... .and potentially her.

FF

[bus boy]

I all ready told my L I will not sit in the same room as her that it will have to be done L to L

[formflier]

I all ready told my L I will not sit in the same room as her that it will have to be done L to L