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Author Topic: When do you know it's time to leave?  (Read 365 times)
Lalathegreat
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« on: February 24, 2017, 06:18:59 AM »

I had to chuckle a little at my subject options - can't decide if I'm "reverse/avoid break up, or in a relationship that needs to be over. At any rate I'm up at 3 in the morning, sad and lonely and needing clarity one way or the other.

My BPD came into my life as my marriage of 20 years was ending. My husband was a sweet and kind man, but struggled to offer genuine emotional connection and we had grown apart. I felt completely invisible, and the parts of my life that had become my joy were not things in which he chose or wanted to participate. Enter our mutual friend who stepped up and supported me, flattered me, gave me the emotional connection I had always longed for. Yup - honeymoon period 110%, although at the time I did not understand what was happening. I thought that I had met my soulmate. (Insert eye roll, )

I built a relationship with his kid, and threw myself into helping this man get on his feet as he was recovering from a depressed period after a job loss. He credited me with saving him, I felt in many key ways he had "saved" me as well and for 4 months things were amazing. Then cracks began to appear. Or honestly it's more likely that things I knew he was capable of began to apply to me. For example, he had admitted to a rather chaotic relationship history, but none of those things applied to me In the beginning because we were so  "perfect" together. Now  I found we were having arguments. As long as I apologized and promised I had seen the error of my ways, things continued to be ok. But the problem was that most of the time I didn't understand what I had done. We were spending a huge amount of time together at this point and I began to genuinely be concerned that it was too much time. My other friendships were being neglected, I feared the same was true in his side though he refused to acknowledge any such thing. I felt him becoming resentful of the time I spent with his son even though he had previously praised me for being so good with him. I began to see moments of extreme anger in him - a phone call where he escalated to screaming at me for making him feel dismissed over a misinterpreted text message, and an excruciating evening where he literally kicked me out of his house amidst a torrent of abusive statements (most of which were my confidences twisted and then pointed back at me in anger). He later expressed that he felt I was pushing him away, that my tone of voice and facial expression had convinced him I was leaving so he pushed first.

At this point a friend of mine mentioned that he might be bipolar. I was becoming very aware that his extreme emotions weren't "normal" so I began to research. I felt that the mood swings were too rapid to fit bipolar, but through that research I was pointed in the direction of BPD and it was so accurate that I knew right away that this had to be the beast I was dealing with. I remember in the beginning he would say things like "please don't go away, everyone always goes away!" And the first time I expressed frustration with something he said he became contrite to the extreme. I got out of the shower and had 20 panicked texts apologizing. He took me to breakfast where he apologized again. I felt horrible for having said anything in the first place after all that! At the same time, it was part of the honeymoon and it was intoxicating in some level that he seemed to be so concerned that he had hurt me. But I digress... .I immediately recognized the honeymoon period for what it was, the push/pull dynamic that had developed over time, the emotional sensitivity that threatened to overwhelm him at any point, the "conversations" that felt like arguments in which I was blamed for any issues that were developing in the relationship.

But I was still completely obsessed with saving things. I bought all the books, read all the articles, spent more hours than I can count thinking about how to better respond when his emotions begin to escalate. How I could diffuse things and bring it back to what it  had been when things had been so good. By the same token, I was beginning to fall apart. I began to have physical anxiety when I knew I would be seeing him in anticipation of what I might face. Accusations and indictments of my responses to even the smallest things where he would determine exactly how I was feeling (always in judgement of him) and could not be convinced otherwise. Constantly the question "what did I do, what do you need" and then the accusation of "well I can tell you are having a problem" when I couldn't answer, followed by the accusation that I was passive aggressive.

The more insistent he became that all our problems were caused by me "shutting him out" and becoming passive aggressive, the less capable I felt I became at giving him what he was asking for. He was begging for complete communication, and yet I felt I was being set up as the villain no matter what I did. If I communicated that his behavior felt verbally assaultive to me I feared what he would do considering how sensitive he was to criticism and how certain he had become that *I* was the problem in the relationship. If I tried to express anything diplomatically he accused me of being indirect and passive aggressive. I found myself much of the time choosing to try to convince him that I was fine.

Phone calls became a nightmare. Each one ended with the accusation that I was dismissing him because of my tone of voice. I began to have sincere  dread whenever his name appeared in my caller-ID. And yet - I was still  obsessed with the idea that things could be good again if I figure out a way... .the sex was amazing still, surely that's  a good sign right? (I'm thinking in my head... .)

Then things start to escalate at his job. He's only been there a few months, but he gets in a verbal altercation with a female coworker. He uses job stress as an excuse for screaming and berating the poor checkout clerk at the grocery store. I know he's supposed to be to the office by 8:30 or 9, but he is constantly late and making excuses. My stomach hurts (he does have GI issues) I'm tired, I'm this, I'm that. He takes a huge number of sick days. Eventually he is placed under supervision and moved to a new group. He complains constantly about how his manager doesn't understand him, how it's all his manager's fault. The breaking point came when his manager asked him to see HR about a 60 day plan and he emotionally spiraled into anxiety. He never returned to work, but did seek help for the anxiety and received medications.

But this became a true crushing point in our relationship. He accused me of pushing him to this level of anxiety with my expectations of him. The sex stopped entirely. I responded  by giving him space, then the accusations  of abandonment begin. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. We have an argument that ends with him calling me a ___ and spitting in my face, but then chasing me down and begging me to keep talking with him. That was a week ago, but since then I feel I've been painted black. He has stopped texting unless I reach out and even the most innocent things turn into arguments. I had made peace with things being over, but then he asked me to spend a day with him and his son and we had a wonderful time. He asked me to watch his son the next day and I find his box of condoms open in the bathroom drawer in which I keep my toothbrush. He's not using them with me soo... .

I can't decide what I'm even asking. The writing is on the wall - this is so bad for me. And yet I have never been with anyone I felt more obscenely drawn to and I can't seem to just walk away. I guess I'm just asking if anyone has been at this Crossroads - what did you decide, how did it turn out? If I decide that I need to walk away what is the  safest way to do that?
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 09:32:04 AM »

Hey Lala, Welcome!  Many of us have been at this Crossroads, including me.  A BPD r/s is similar to an addiction in the sense that you know its unhealthy but don't want to give it up. The place to start, I suggest, is with yourself, by returning the focus to you and your needs.  What are your gut feelings?  What would you like to see happen?  Only you can decide whether to stay or go, or tread water.

LuckyJim
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allienoah
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 10:38:11 AM »

First of all, welcome! I am new to this as well and am struggling with my decision to stay or go. It is uncanny how your story is almost exactly like mine. My bfwBD is honestly the kindest, nicest, most loving man I can hope to be with-until he's not. And it is the same thing. It is always about how he feels I am not "hip to hip, shoulder to shoulder" with him. I am a very devoted and loving gf but I also cherish my independence at times... My relationships with friends, family members and even my own 2 kids has suffered as his need to be my "priority" take over. It is like he is jealous of anything that takes any time away from him. He has a job and visitation with his kids but it is like I need to be always planning on being with him if I don't have work. I understand your feelings of the "honeymoon". It was so nice to feel after 24 years of marriage that someone paid so much attention to my thoughts and needs and loved me so much when I had felt invisible. Be careful what you wish for! And now, like you, I find myself always having to explain a benign text or phone call. He assumes he knows my motivations and intentions and gaslights me constantly. We break up, go NC for a few days and then it starts all over again. I want off the ride but it is like an addiction I am trying desperately to break. I do love the good guy, but the lows are ridiculously low and full of drama.
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WalrusGumboot
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 10:45:07 AM »

Welcome to the forum Lala -

I was married to a woman with BPD for 23 years, and what you describe is happening to you is what happened to me for the duration. I have been divorced for 5 years with no contact during the last 4 1/2 years.

A couple of things struck me about your post

>> I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. <<

This never stopped and it probably won't for you if he does not seek help. This will keep you at blame no matter the outcome.

>> We have an argument that ends with him calling me a ___ and spitting in my face <<

You asked when that we know it is time to leave, and for me it was when I was disrespected for the final time. Being spat at - I'm not sure it can get much worse outside of more direct physical threat.

>> And yet I have never been with anyone I felt more obscenely drawn to and I can't seem to just walk away <<

It's better to walk away while you have a chance before you might have to run away.

>> I guess I'm just asking if anyone has been at this Crossroads - what did you decide, how did it turn out? <<

Been there, and I answered that early in my response. It would be much easier to walk away sooner rather than later. There is a price to pay for years of mental abuse, trust me.

>> If I decide that I need to walk away what is the  safest way to do that? <<

I would suggest it be done in a public place, like in a restaurant. But be prepared for an onslaught of attempts to get back together. After walking away, be prepared for no contact, and stick to it. It's the only way.

WGB
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"If your're going through hell, keep going..." Winston Churchill
schwing
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 11:54:20 AM »

Hi Lalathegreat,

I can't decide what I'm even asking. The writing is on the wall - this is so bad for me. And yet I have never been with anyone I felt more obscenely drawn to and I can't seem to just walk away. I guess I'm just asking if anyone has been at this Crossroads - what did you decide, how did it turn out? If I decide that I need to walk away what is the  safest way to do that?

I understand your ambivalence. I've felt it myself with my BPD loved one(s). You will eventually need to make a decision or else a decision will be made for you by circumstances. Something that might help you come to a decision, which I can try to offer you, is some understanding of his behavior.

Enter our mutual friend who stepped up and supported me, flattered me, gave me the emotional connection I had always longed for. Yup - honeymoon period 110%, although at the time I did not understand what was happening. I thought that I had met my soulmate. (Insert eye roll, )

There is a reason why people with BPD (pwBPD) are often compared to Greek sirens (see Odysseus). PwBPD are intuitively adept at seducing/connecting to their favored partners.  They've spent all their lives honing these skills because for them it was necessary to (psychically) survive. It also helps their cause that their personalities are so malleable that they can re-invent themselves to suit any/every favored partner they select.

In the beginning because we were so  "perfect" together. Now  I found we were having arguments. As long as I apologized and promised I had seen the error of my ways, things continued to be ok. But the problem was that most of the time I didn't understand what I had done.

As I understand this disorder, pwBPD have a core traumatic experience from which they have not recovered. And for a lot of pwBPD, I believe they spend much of their lives avoiding the facing of this trauma. Why? Maybe because the pain of this trauma is too painful, or for them it feels like it can consume them. And so they run from it. In a sense they run from themselves. And they do so by become other people. Such as by becoming the "perfect" person for you.  And for a while, this works.

It stops working when their trauma/their disorder catches up with them.  And they begin to imagine that it is you who is causing them to feel the disordered feelings they feel.  I believe that for pwBPD feelings of intimacy and familiarity are a key trigger for these disordered feelings.  This is why at the beginning of your relationship, he did not exhibit these disordered behaviors.  But as you spent more time with him, as the your intimacy and familiarity developed, so did the expressions of his disorder.

We were spending a huge amount of time together at this point and I began to genuinely be concerned that it was too much time. My other friendships were being neglected, I feared the same was true in his side though he refused to acknowledge any such thing. I felt him becoming resentful of the time I spent with his son even though he had previously praised me for being so good with him. I began to see moments of extreme anger in him - a phone call where he escalated to screaming at me for making him feel dismissed over a misinterpreted text message, and an excruciating evening where he literally kicked me out of his house amidst a torrent of abusive statements (most of which were my confidences twisted and then pointed back at me in anger). He later expressed that he felt I was pushing him away, that my tone of voice and facial expression had convinced him I was leaving so he pushed first.

PwBPD fear real and imagined abandonment. At the beginning, they insist that we will never abandon them and we agree. But as their intimacy/familiarity grows and triggers their disordered feelings, they come to believe that we mean to abandon them in spite our assurances.  And they act out on these feelings.  And as soon as these feelings pass, they again, in the effort to avoid real abandonment, pull us back in.  And this behavior confuses us and at the same time reinforces our attachment to them.

We think, they just cannot make up their mind.  In truth, they are operating on impulse the whole time.  It's just that their impulses can change so drastically and so quickly.  Literally, one minute they will hate us.  The next minute they will love us.


How I could diffuse things and bring it back to what it  had been when things had been so good.

I honestly don't think this is possible.  As much as our BPD loved ones might wish it, they cannot control how they feel about us any more than they can control their disordered feelings.  And if their feelings of intimacy towards us is a cause, how is this to go away? Maybe given enough time when those feelings of intimacy and familiarity can evaporate, perhaps?  But would you be willing to wait long enough for them to forget and then start over?  Only to repeat the cycle?

There is no "doing it right." I don't believe you can have a relationship that does not eventually trigger their issues.  At best you can establish a stable relationship, but that might look more like a caregiver-patient (or parent-child) kind of dynamic than an adult intimate relationship.

By the same token, I was beginning to fall apart. I began to have physical anxiety when I knew I would be seeing him in anticipation of what I might face. Accusations and indictments of my responses to even the smallest things where he would determine exactly how I was feeling (always in judgement of him) and could not be convinced otherwise. Constantly the question "what did I do, what do you need" and then the accusation of "well I can tell you are having a problem" when I couldn't answer, followed by the accusation that I was passive aggressive.

I believe pwBPD enter into relationships in the hopes that the next person does not trigger their disorder feelings.  And when their disorder feelings are triggered (and they will be) then they expect us to take responsibility for their disordered feelings.  They expect us to take responsibility for them because they do not have the emotional resources to do so.

As I see it, they live in denial.  And they expect everyone to help them maintain their denial, even if it means becoming their emotional scapegoats.

They cannot tell us exactly what the problem is, because they don't know what it is (or don't want to know what it is).  So long as we continue to accept the fault/blame, this works for them.  And we cannot fix the problem because the problem does not reside in our behavior but in their psyche.

The more insistent he became that all our problems were caused by me "shutting him out" and becoming passive aggressive, the less capable I felt I became at giving him what he was asking for. He was begging for complete communication, and yet I felt I was being set up as the villain no matter what I did. If I communicated that his behavior felt verbally assaultive to me I feared what he would do considering how sensitive he was to criticism and how certain he had become that *I* was the problem in the relationship. If I tried to express anything diplomatically he accused me of being indirect and passive aggressive. I found myself much of the time choosing to try to convince him that I was fine.

When you established more distance from him, he then perceived you as "abandoning" him.  But when you were too available, he then *imagined* that you were "abandoning" him.  It is a no-win situation.  All the while, he insists that you are to blame.  

Consider that when he blames you, he is telling you that he is emotionally incapable to dealing with his own issues and he is not asking that you defend yourself and "prove" that you are not to blame. He *needs* you to be blamed.

I can't decide what I'm even asking. The writing is on the wall - this is so bad for me. And yet I have never been with anyone I felt more obscenely drawn to and I can't seem to just walk away. I guess I'm just asking if anyone has been at this Crossroads - what did you decide, how did it turn out? If I decide that I need to walk away what is the  safest way to do that?

I think many of us have been at this Crossroad.  I was there.  I kept trying to "fix" things.  Even to the point that when she was actively seeking some to replace me, I was in complete denial of her intentions.  She even convinced me that what would make our relationship better was if we had an "open" relationship.  

I decided not to chose which road to walk upon.  And so it was decided for me.

Eventually, for pwBPD, the best way to avoid their real/imagined abandonment is to be the abandoner.

I hope some of what I write is helpful.

Best wishes,

Schwing
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Lalathegreat
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 12:05:18 PM »

Thank you everyone for your considerate replies, it is so helpful to know that I have not lost my mind, that other people have experienced similar things! I have found several times when trying to explain what is going on with my friends that I am met with disbelief and shock. And the obvious answer of "why are you even still there or putting up with this" is painful for me because I cannot explain how I feel or why any of this is so hard, and why "walking away" even after how low things have gotten feels so painful. I had a friend yesterday say - what is there to miss at this point? You aren't even having sex anymore! All he does is emotionally abuse you! Where is the "fun"? And the thing is... .she's not wrong! But I could not explain wny the thought of not being with him felt like trying to go without air. I know that I have some real work to do for myself on figuring out why that is my response to even the most cruel of treatment.

WGB - yes, the spitting was scary. And I felt incredibly physically threatened during that altercation. He had me backed against the door, 1 inch from my face, literally screaming insults. He had absolutely no control of himself whatsoever. He tore his shirt off, he slammed his laptop over his knee until it was bent concave. And then when I decided for my physical safety to leave, he was genuinely surprised - even though the argument started when he said "GET OUT OF MY HOUSE... ." But my leaving seems to be what snapped him from rage back to victim.  He chased me across the apartment parking lot begging me to keep talking with him, he finally knelt down in a puddle with his hands in the air sobbing. I did continue the conversation at that point because quite frankly - I felt horrible for him in that moment. Understanding BPD I was able to see how emotionally desperate he was feeling. But that was the last time I have seen any desire from him for the relationship to continue with the exception of accusations of me failing to meet expectations I was unaware he had.  The next day we shared some text messages where he encouraged me to take some time away from him. I told him that I wanted him to consider getting help and that I didn't want our relationship to end that way. The next day we had a 2 hour phone conversation where he essentially berated me the entire time and blamed my passive aggressive nature for driving him to such emotional desperation. That what he had done was wrong, but that I emotionally abuse HIM. I continued to encourage him to seek therapy and try to express my support. I did start to distance a little bit as I felt that we both needed a little time and space. This did not go well. He texted on Monday wanting to know if I still wanted to go out of town with him and his son over mid winter break. That was one conversation that took place last week at the time that trip would need to have been planned. Now it's monday of THE WEEK and I did have some things in place that made it impossible for me to go. So then he berates me for breaking my promises. That if I want a "cooling period without a bilateral discussion of the issues in play" that wouldn't work for him and that I was "shooting myself in the foot". I give him some days and times that I have open for some day trips, encourage him to take his son for a trip if he wants to and try to diffuse what is clearly another accusation that *I* have abandoned him or not followed through on something I promised even given that the circumstances in play make things much more complicated than that.

And then crickets... .I text enough that he can't accuse me of not checking in, but replies are one word and he is clearly icing me out. Tuesday evening he invites me to go to the zoo with him and his son. I agree. I get a text at 9pm cancelling because his son was disrespectful and he told him that he had lost the zoo trip. I inwardly rolled my eyes because I knew that more than likely I would get a text in the morning saying the trip was back on. And that's exactly what happened. And generally, the trip was really nice. We had a great lunch, toured around his old neighborhood while he waxed nostalgic, at the end of the day he bought me a bouquet of flowers and apologized. I asked "for what", he said "for everything... ." It was a reallly good day. And I thought - ok good. Maybe the worst of whatever that was has resolved for the moment. He asks if I can watch his kid the next day so that he can go to his doctor's appointment. I agree, and he's cold to me. Criticizes how I am making his son's breakfast, asks me continually if he's upset me, leaves 20 minutes later than he said he needed too and blames me since he had to "instruct me on how to heat the food." And then I find the condoms... .

I think if I had to sum everything up it would be simply to say that I never know which way is up. When he is in a good place than the sun shines so powerfully. But man oh man does this man cast a wide shadow. And when he's freezing me out - well it's cold out here. Truth of the matter is, it feels in many ways like he has already decided this is over, but he's messing with my head on the way out - in anger? Retaliation? Or is this a test of how much crap I will take - some obscene test of loyalty? I just can't tell. Everytime I think he is trying to break up and respond with space he returns with accusations of abandonment on my part and am right back to being hurt and confused.

I was talking to my friend the other day and told her how I felt like a first time dog owner who adopted a pitbull and then neglected to train it correctly and had to try to regain control after the dog kept trying to eat the cat! I have had so few relationships, struggle to be assertive anyways, and then end up in a relationship with someone who clearly has some very large issues. How do you ever get on top of it?
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Lalathegreat
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 12:47:56 PM »

Thank you Schwing for your detailed andn well thought out response. It is very helpful to me to have some understanding of the behavior. I have come to peace with the fact that he will never be able to give me "closure" by accepting any responsibility or indicating that he understands his role, so closure may just have to come from understanding his disorder.
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 02:42:40 PM »

Let me echo Lala and say "Thanks, Schwing" for your insightful post, which struck a chord with me on many levels.  That was a terrific summary of the BPD dynamic that I experienced.  LJ
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
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