Sudden change - my exBPD is NC, won't come to see the kids

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi,

as I've said before my ex partner is BPD and I'm now taking care of our biological daugther and his daughter from his first marriage.

Up untill now he would come to the house a couple a times a week to be with the children but all of a sudden, he has gone No Contact, which to me actually is a relief because all those texts and phone calls where driving me crazy but on the other hand I'm desperate because he won't come to see our two daugthers.

I think what happened was that after all these months it finally hit him that there's no way we're ever getting back together so he is extremely angry, he's said horrible things to me like the girls will have no father and that's my fault when in fact I know they need him and I'll do anything for them to be able to spend some time with him.

I'm feeling hopeless today and needed to share this with someone who will understand how it feels to be acused of something so horrible which is not true... .

[MiaP]

Hi,

as I've said before my ex partner is BPD and I'm now taking care of our biological daugther and his daughter from his first marriage.

Up untill now he would come to the house a couple a times a week to be with the children but all of a sudden, he has gone No Contact, which to me actually is a relief because all those texts and phone calls where driving me crazy but on the other hand I'm desperate because he won't come to see our two daugthers.

I think what happened was that after all these months it finally hit him that there's no way we're ever getting back together so he is extremely angry, he's said horrible things to me like the girls will have no father and that's my fault when in fact I know they need him and I'll do anything for them to be able to spend some time with him.

I'm feeling hopeless today and needed to share this with someone who will understand how it feels to be acused of something so horrible which is not true... .

[takingandsending]

Hi MiaP.

How long has your ex been NC? How do you talk to your daughters about their dad's disappearance from their lives? SD14 probably needs some context and help sorting through what she is feeling. With D3, it might be more of emotion coaching to help her name her feelings, like "It makes you sad (angry, etc. ) when daddy isn't here to play with". The important thing for them is validating their experience. Whatever it is, it isn't wrong. If you keep doing this with your girls, you are all going to get through this, whether or not their BPD dad chooses to be in their lives or not.

You have the capacity and gift to give them the thing that their dad cannot, a secure and safe emotional attachment, which is what all kids need and thrive on. Sometimes, with my S5 and S11, it seems overwhelming to me to be their only safe harbor. Truthfully, I am trying to develop other safe harbors for them (S11 is seeing a child T who is really loving and helpful and I am leaning on my sister to be there for them, too). But in the end, I know that they need me, and I will keep showing up. I also wish that they can have meaningful, good relationships with their BPDmom, but I am accepting that it may never be. I understand the grief that might bring up in you, and the guilt. I think (I hope) over time, the guilt lessens, that I don't see my kids' smiles as bittersweet, but all sweet. Mostly, though, I remember to see them for who they are in this moment, not through my filters of what I hoped for them - that's not fair to them or me or even my ex wife. They deserve to be seen for who they are in their own context, not mine or my ex wife's. And that is the gift that I can give them. It is not and may never be the gift that my ex wife can give them.

Don't know if this helps. I sure do hope you keep posting here, and I know that you are a huge help to your kids.

[Turkish]

With BPD sudden change can change suddenly.  Legally, you have rights with your youngest. As for SD, how will this work out if it continues? Can you approve medical care? What about school?

From what you say,  you're her mom,  effectively,  even if not legally, and she's blessed to have you there for her 

Speaking as the son of a pwBPD, at 14, I started counting down until my 18th birthday.  4 years of this,  however, seems a long time in limbo.  Not to mention your other child, but at least you have legal rights there.  How are the kids handling this?

[MiaP]

Hi,

thank you for your words, it does help when your're feeling like I was... .

He was no contact for 2 weeks and out of nowhere, as if nothing had happened, started showing up again. So, it's like Turkish said, "with BPD sudden change can change suddenly". I've been throught a lot but still I was surprised with him going NC because I never for once imagined he would do that to the children... .I realise now I have to be prepared for something like this happening again and maybe he'll keep changing his mind which is confusing and hard to explain to the children.

Is it common in BPD to do something and the next day act as if nothing happened? I asked him once if he remembered the horrible things he'd said to me and he replied he didn't but he had sent me text messages so it was in his phone.  Do they really don't remember or don't think they said something that bad or just pretend to forget because they no longer feel so angry and to them it's no longer important?

My D3 is usually sad when dad doesn't spend much time with her and D14 is quite confused with this situation and feels insecure because I am her mom effectivelly but not legally and I cannot approve medical care and nothing related to school so she is always a bit nervous not knowing for sure if her father will show up or not. And yes, 4 years is a long time to live like this... .

I do try to provide them "a secure and safe emotional attachment" and it's like you say, it's overwhelming to me sometimes because I always thought their father would also be there for them but stability and security are just things he will not be able to provide them with. I have to work on accepting that... .

[takingandsending]

Hi MiaP.

Unfortunately, it is pretty normal for pwBPD to not remember their behaviors or words from previous outbursts. It's like you said, because they are no longer feeling a certain way, the narrative around what happened changes. For pwBPD, feelings=facts ... .easy to write that, but incredibly challenging for those of us who live or interact with a person suffering from this illness.

I am so sorry about the confusion and uncertainty your D14 must be feeling and the sadness that your D3 goes through. I am glad their dad made contact again, but how terrible to not know when that will happen. Is there any way that you can ask him to keep a schedule? There are excellent communication tools here (on the staying/improving board) and folks on this board that can help with wording. It's pretty difficult to appear as not criticizing to your ex, but also speak your truth (and your girls' truths), that they have less stress and do better if they know that he will see them on a regular schedule.  How is he with your daughters when he does visit? Do they like seeing him? How are they doing after this last visit?

[ForeverDad]

Regarding SD14, does she get to see her mother, is her mother a part of her life?  Is her mother someone who could or should step in if any legal or medical issues arise?

I read your prior posts, you have a good grasp of what you're dealing with, such as that comment that he left because he feared you would abandon him.  Unless your Ex gets into meaningful therapy and diligently applies it he is unlikely to change for the better.  You can't control his actions, reactions and overreactions, however you can have some influence, and especially over your own life and your parenting.

[MiaP]

I have tried to talk to him about keeping a regular schedule and I'm hopefull that he'll be able to mantain it but i do have to read through the communication tools you suggest because the way I tried to communicate all these years certainly wasn't working; I always tought that if I just explained someting better, if I just presented enough logic reasons we would have to understand but we would always end up arguing and yealling at each other. In the end he would still not understand what i meant or my point of view... .

He did feel criticized when I tried to talk about the schedule and it's also a challenge to tell him things like what time to come to the house for example. I try to be as flexible as possible but sometimes he comes for dinner and arrives by the time the girls should be getting to bed and still complains that he hardly spent any time with them and that I'm just being being nasty to him by telling them to go to bed when in other days accuses me of letting them up too late!

Only recently did I find out about this disorder and I'm trying to read trough all the information which I hope will help me act in a different way and improve the way the girls and I feel. Whether we are a couple or not he will be in my life forever because he is the father of the children and that scares me.

Regarding SD14 she sees her mother very rarely and I doubt if she'll even bother to show up if her daughter needs something.

[takingandsending]

The issues you describe are common BPD and non-BPD interactions. By and large, what a pwBPD experiences in communications, especially communications with someone close to them (family, intimate partner, friends, etc.) is invalidation. There is no way to prevent your ex from feeling invalidated (criticized, minimized, feeling like he doesn't matter to those he is closest to, disrespected, lied to, etc.), but there are ways to reduce that feeling a little bit. In my experience with my STBxw, the biggest thing that I can do around invalidation is to not JADE (justify, argue, defend or explain). That thought "if I just explain this better" gets most of us in trouble when interacting with a pwBPD.

The narrative sort of goes like this: feelings=facts, so if you contest the facts of what a pwBPD presents, you are invalidating their feelings. Which leads to the arguing and yelling and emotional dysregulations that make everyone (including the pwBPD) miserable. My wife just believes that she is fiery. If it were only that simple! If you put your past experiences in this context, it might begin to make sense why your logic, your reasoning and even consideration and fairness was taken as attacks on your ex - you were refuting his feelings. Basically, our best efforts (and our less than best efforts) often lead to the conclusion that "You don't care about how I feel." It's bewildering for me to communicate with my wife because of this, but at least I don't have to do things that I know make it worse for me, for my kids and for my wife ... .sometimes ... .when I am not completely baited, hooked, irritated or just plain tired.

The trickier part (for me), by far, is how to communicate positively in a way that actually leads to resolution or workable situations. That's what you want to aim for with your kids' dad. It may not be possible, but you can try. And maybe, for your daughters' sakes, it makes sense to try, especially if you believe at this time that he will be and remain in all of your lives. It's funny - as I write this to you, I realize that I need to brush up my communication skills with my STBxw, because that is pretty much precisely the case for me and my sons as well (despite my fantasies that she will just drift away on the winds of selfishness and narcissism).

Take a look at SET, PUVAS and DEARMAN terms in the communication tools/lessons. If you want, please post back here with your thoughts about how you might try to talk to him about setting a schedule. Aim for empathy, appreciate the good that he does do in visits (which I really am hoping there is some), and also speak your truth! That's the part I typically leave out, which is really the whole point of these tools. They're not meant to be an appeasement, but a way of disarming some of the hyperactive defenses of the pwBPD so that you can reach out in a reassuring way to get your needs across.

Re. your stepdaughter, it is wholly understandable why she might feel threatened by his NC if her birth mom has abandoned her. She is being left on an island. Sounds like you are a pretty amazing island, and you are giving her an incredible gift to be there for her. Could you start talking to legal aid to see if there are any options for you to gain some custodial rights?  

[MiaP]

All the communicattion tools are very new to me but I have tried not to JADE which is the opposite of what I would normally do before I started reading about this disorder. I would always try to explain everything, it just seemed to me that if what I was saying was logical he would surely have to understand!

Not to JADE has been like a revelation to me, it has already helped me to stop arguing so much which I desperatly need because this situation has drained me and all interactions with my exBPD were just completely exausting. Whenever he came to visit and spend time with the girls we would end up arguing an by the time he left, I would be so very tired and unable to deal with the children normal demands; it was as if I used up all my energy and patience to deal with him. 

I have tried not to JADE and miraculously he will drop the subject and forget (?) about it; this confuses me, I don't really understand if they forget or if it's no longer important, something that seemed so important one minute (and might leave me upset for quite some time) and then just isn't... .

Feelings = facts means that if for example a pwBPD feels that someone doesn't want him around anymore and one tries to explain that that is not true, I'm invalidating his feelings? He feels that I don't want him around anymore so it is true in his mind, no matter how hard I try to explain that I do not think that. And by trying to explain I am invalidating his feelings? Do I understand correctly?

The other tools are still confusing to me, I have to try to understand them better because I do need to talk to him about certain things, and I've been avoiding as much as possible to do that for fear of ending up in an argument. Well, all this considering that he won't change his mind again and go NC again... .

I have talked to him about setting a schedule but need help figuring out how to talk to him about particular aspects of the visits, such as the time he arrives and leaves.

Regarding my SD14 she has been throught so much that I would like to avoid taking legal action if possible but let's see how the situation evolves... .

[takingandsending]

Hi MiaP.
Not JADEing is a revelation! Good for you for getting that far. It really does help. But boy is it a hard muscle to develop.

For the pwBPD, they don't forget about it, but once the feeling subsides, the actual substance of what they were arguing about becomes less important. It's the feeling that is immediate and, for them, has to be got rid of (project out, blame, paint black, gaslight to relieve responsibility). My wife has so much shame about what she feels that we can never come within a country mile of what she is actually feeling despite her talking about how insensitive I am to her feelings for hours. It's sort of like that.

So, yes, if your ex feels that you don't want him around anymore, and if you contradict that, you are invalidating his feelings. Why? Because the actual feeling is fear or sadness or even anger, and that is a valid feeling, especially in the context of not being loved/wanted/needed. Validation often looks something like, "I can see you are afraid. I would feel fear too if I believed that someone I love did not love/want/need me." And that's actually a true statement, right? You aren't validating the invalid expression, namely the projection that you (or his kids) don't love/want/need him. And if you try to challenge the projection, you invalidate the feeling that is underneath the projection. The hard part (at least for me) is correctly identifying that underlying feeling. It is often fear and shame.

So, setting a visitation boundary. First, what is it that resonates for you and for your girls? What words give you the "Yes! That's what I want" feeling? Respect? Support? Caring? How would you treat someone if you were the visiting parent and how would you like to be treated as the custodial parent? This is a personal thing that only you can answer, but I can tell you from experience that when you find the resonant words, it really makes remembering your boundary and expressing it easier. Once you have it, this boundary will become the basis for how you communicate with your ex. All the acronym tools (SET, PUVAS, etc) work best when you are both calm and the way to remain in your wise mind is by knowing when you are drifting across your boundaries and taking necessary actions to step back within them before escalation.

This could look like offering a limited selection of visitation dates/times that work for you and the kids' schedules and then letting him choose which ones work for him. Provide ample validating statements like "I know this is hard, but we both love the girls and want to do our best for them. If we work together, we can find a supportive solution." "The girls feel better when they get to see you. It really helps them know that you are there for them." "Here are x times that work for the girls and me in a school week. Do you see a time that works for you?" If he escalates or verbally lashes out, that's when you step back, give a validating statement, and revert to your boundary. "I see how upset you this makes you. I would be angry if I believed you were keeping me from the girls. But I am starting to get upset, too. I am taking a break. Let's talk about this some more in 30 minutes when I cool down. It is important to me, too." Then you separate and return in 30 minutes. As you've noticed, odds are he will not want to talk about whatever the upset seemed to be about.

What do you think? Care to try to put in words how you might approach this?

[MiaP]

Not JADEing truly is a revelation! Because is the opposite of what I would normally do and for that reason it is quite hard but it does help enourmously to reduce the arguments.

It’s as if I know I have to this if I don’t want to have another pointless argument that will only make me feel anxious and from which I’ll never get the satisfaction of truly having my needs or point of view understood but on the other hand it makes sad because whenever I do this I feel myself distancing from him. It’s like I can’t be my true self around him anymore and that for me is the ultimate realisation that our relationship is definitevely over. I know in my head that is what’s best but on some other level it’s so hard…

We are separated but he keeps trying to get back together. I know that it wouldn’t work and keep holding my grounds but sometimes it’s hard. Maybe it’s fear of being alone, self esteem problems, definitely sadness that the girls don’t have the home I imaged with both parents, maybe it’s all of this together.

Your explanation about validation totally sheds a new light into so many conversations we’ve had over the years, it makes so much sense and I’m finally stating to get a glimpse at what he really meant and felt. I’ve been trying to listen more carefully so as to correctly identify the underlying feeling but it's turning out to be quite difficult... .Moreover, he tends to deny being afraid, I suppose he doesn't want to admit, not even to himself that he needs people and is afraid to lose them.

Regarding the visitation boundary, I would present a couple of options for days/times which work for me and the girls and say something like: I know you love the girls and want want is best for them. They feel a lot better when they know if you’re coming to spend time with them. Knowing when you're coming over is a way for all of us to have more stability.
 
I would also point out things like: "You know they like when you come over to spend time with them, remeber the other night when you gave D3 bath and she was so happy?"

 
In other situations I have tried to ask him what he would like to do, what’s the solution he would be most confortable with but he never gave any suggestion. He always says things like: “you can decide whatever you like”, “do whatever you want”. In the end I always end up making a suggestion and asking if that is ok with him but never really get an answer. When the situation eventually arises, he complains about the solution I came up with and accuses me of always making the decisions by myself with no regard for his opinion!


I never tried taking a break when things start to heat up but it’s a good ideia, definitely going to try that.

[takingandsending]

I’ll never get the satisfaction of truly having my needs or point of view understood but on the other hand it makes sad because whenever I do this I feel myself distancing from him. It’s like I can’t be my true self around him anymore and that for me is the ultimate realisation that our relationship is definitevely over.

I spent a long time in my marriage right at this point, knowing there was no real hope for it succeeding but staying in it because my heart hadn't caught up to my head. I tried for a long time to get my head to come along with where my heart hoped to be, but eventually, both parts of me came together to make the decision to end things. It is really tough, but not having your needs met, your beingness understood ... .that is hugely undermining to your sense of esteem, belonging and well being in the world. And on some level, pwBPD know that, and derive some level of comfort in exerting control over others in ways that do undermine their esteem, belonging and sense of well being. I often felt with my wife that my being happy threatened her. That's not the basis for a relationship. So, unless your ex is actively treating his disorder in therapy and group support, I would not recycle the relationship.

I’ve been trying to listen more carefully so as to correctly identify the underlying feeling but it's turning out to be quite difficult... .Moreover, he tends to deny being afraid, I suppose he doesn't want to admit, not even to himself that he needs people and is afraid to lose them.

Do your best and let it go if you don't hit the nail on the head. You could spend a lifetime chasing after what he is feeling, but I find this part of validation/empathy the most difficult bit. I used to watch our marriage counselor deftly work through an entire hour to disarm the defenses my wife threw up (one after another) to finally reach a true, honest feeling. I do not have the resources nor, admittedly, the interest to do that. I try to listen and understand what she is feeling, but I have mostly given up on it. Not fair to my wife, but as my MC pointed out to me, ultimately not my job.

I know you love the girls and want want is best for them. They feel a lot better when they know if you’re coming to spend time with them. Knowing when you're coming over is a way for all of us to have more stability.
 
I would also point out things like: "You know they like when you come over to spend time with them, remeber the other night when you gave D3 bath and she was so happy?"

Both of these statements are very good. It can feel a little rehearsed and wooden, but the end goal is to do what is best for your daughters, and for you. Ultimately, it is also what is best for him ... .staying connected. Sure seems like you are already skilled in communicating with empathy and care! That's terrific. It still is up to your ex to receive what he can. But if he starts to blame, shame or react in a destructive way, just reiterate the validation/empathy bit and excuse yourself from the discussion. None of us can communicate effectively once our fight/flight response in the brain gets activated. We need time to settle down, and this is especially true for pwBPD - my MC said they generally take 10-15 minutes longer than average brain chemistry to come down from that response.

[MiaP]

So, unless your ex is actively treating his disorder in therapy and group support, I would not recycle the relationship.

He is taking medication but currently not doing any therapy. I'm not even sure support groups exist where we live and even specific therapy is hard to find and extremly expensive here... .Unless I try to find a therapist, set up the appointments and convince him to go, I'm sure he won't go looking for himself. At this point, I don't really know if I want to do that.

Do your best and let it go if you don't hit the nail on the head. You could spend a lifetime chasing after what he is feeling, but I find this part of validation/empathy the most difficult bit. I used to watch our marriage counselor deftly work through an entire hour to disarm the defenses my wife threw up (one after another) to finally reach a true, honest feeling. I do not have the resources nor, admittedly, the interest to do that. I try to listen and understand what she is feeling, but I have mostly given up on it. Not fair to my wife, but as my MC pointed out to me, ultimately not my job.

We went to a few MC sessions before I had even heard about BPD. I kept telling the MC that in my opinion my partner had some kind of mental disorder and asking if it was worth going to this kind of sessions with someone who would not take responsability for his decisions, who was not available to make compromises and take part in decisions. I remember she once said that couples theraphy worked in the same way for people with disorders, we had to go through the same process. I think the MC felt like my exBPD was always saying very reasonable things whereas I was the one with some kind of problem... .At this point I was quite desperate because he had frequent rage outbursts and I don't think the MC ever understood the intensity of those outbursts. The more I tried to explain, the worse... .

Both of these statements are very good. It can feel a little rehearsed and wooden, but the end goal is to do what is best for your daughters, and for you.

You're absolutly right, sometimes it doesn't sound like my usual way of talking, I do have to work on sounding more natural.

[takingandsending]

This video by Dr. Alan Fruzetti really helped me start to understand validation/invalidation: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjzi6rEmNnSAhUJvRQKHQ1-CQQQtwIIHzAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEDSIYTQX_dk&usg=AFQjCNFEOTHrSOWtTgL8HcyrNkO11fhmjw&sig2=AoGAmjsH42HdwFARRXsJIg&bvm=bv.149397726,d.d24

Hope this link works. I am not great at this stuff. (Might also still be in tools on this website)

[MiaP]

Hi takingandsending,

the link works, thank you for all your suggestions.