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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Does a PW BPD simply supress unwanted feelings or where do the feelings go?  (Read 397 times)
joeramabeme
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« on: February 26, 2017, 12:22:36 PM »

I woke up this morning having had a dream about the time just after she moved out of our house (11 years married) and how for the first few months after she left, every once in awhile, she would call me out of the blue and ask me if she could exchange a piece of unwanted furniture she took with her for a piece she left behind.

This confused me for a number of reasons:
I thought our furniture was ours - but she saw it as either hers or mine and that we needed to swap - of course she would swap something of greater value and "win".

I thought perhaps she wanted to stay in contact with me, but that was not it either.  After the swap she was happy to be gone until the next time.  She simply saw it all as transactional; very black and white - what is yours / what is mine / can I swap yours for mine.

We talk a lot here about how our r/s' end and the "legitimacy" of our BPs choices to end it, but those discussions always make me feel nulled and voided; somewhat normalizing what is very out of the norm behavior and action.

After awakening to this dream, I started to legitimize my own feelings of how surreal it is to spend 15 years of a life with a woman that profoundly changed me and yet she appears to act as if it is all done and transactional and there is no point in having a casual/cordial relation of any kind.

Putting aside the observation that she has a right to make her own choices etc.; where do those feelings go?  I do not accept nor believe that they vanish and without a trace. 

Do BPs get physically sick from stuffing their feelings?  Is there a perpetual tornadic vortex sucking the senses out of all their living experiences?  Do they really just forget like a psychosis?

Did I mention I saw her this morning?  We are divorced now and so have nothing left to swap but I observed the same pedestrian style approach as if I were just another person passing by.

Isn't this the central question for many of us?  What happened to the electricity that was flowing through the circuit and suddenly there was no electricity and no circuit and so we are a mess but they seem to have no memory.
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roberto516
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2017, 12:37:58 PM »

I was only with her for 15 months and it's almost been two months but what I understand is that they do suppress their emotions. The only emotions I ever saw out of her were intense rage and anxiety. She could never describe why she felt depressed sometimes. When I tried to communicate with her about our relationship and things I was concerned about it was flipped to her feeling I would leave so I would put the discussion to the side and take care of her.

Even now. She has apparently immersed herself in yoga because it is helping her find an identity, for the time being, and she doesn't have to focus on the emotions because she is pursuing other things.

They simply paint you black and then you are written off. The only time she reached out to me the past two months was when she was lonely and when she wanted me to try and get her drugs. And then I'd ask her what is going on because I don't know where she's at and she'd say "I don't want to be in a relationship" or "I feel I need to rescue you." Which is crazy because I was the one considering finding her xanax to rescue her even after she left me. It's crazy.

They can't cope with emotions and they struggle to find a purpose in life. She was never satisfied and was always thinking of moving jobs, starting a new career, etc. It has to be exhausting. And even though she is doing well now while I'm struggling she is probably going to eventually lose her new identity and find another way to not confront those feelings.

That's my two sense. But I am struggling mightily with the feelings of being abandoned. I wanted to leave so many times but always convinced myself that "If I leave without really trying to work on this I will be the same old me." I guess her mindset was "If I leave now he won't abandon me, and it's gonna be easier for me to cope because I'll be the one leaving and won't be rejected." And today; I hate her for that.
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2017, 12:47:46 PM »

Isn't this the central question for many of us?  What happened to the electricity that was flowing through the circuit and suddenly there was no electricity and no circuit and so we are a mess but they seem to have no memory.

I agree that this does seem to be a central question for many of us. Definitely for me--and especially in the first year. I think of those "10 beliefs that keep us stuck" often (https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/10_beliefs.pdf) and #6 in particular--clinging to the words that were said. Meaning not just the declarations of love but the way he seemed to *need* me so much, until he just didn't.

I'm sure there are clinical explanations. It's also that, at least in my case, so much was happening inside of him without my knowing about it, and in some ways I guess he "processed" those feelings before he acted on them. How successfully he processed them--well, that I don't know. I have my suspicions, but I'm not with him now, so I can't say for sure.

I have been told that my chronic depression  is at least partly a result of "stuffing" my feelings in childhood. The shock of this r/s and how it ended made me determined to face my feelings and not stuff them, and I guess they were too huge to stuff anyhow, but I guess we all face a moment when we have to move past the raw hurt even if we don't feel done with it.

For everyone, I believe, there is an aspect of faking it until you make it in getting over painful feelings. Maybe you force yourself to socialize when you don't want to, to eat when you don't feel hungry, to go outside and sit in the sun. Those are healthy ways of putting your *feelings* away. It's not like turning a switch and killing the current, but in a sense it's related.

Rambling. Sorry. But do you see what I mean? I've come to see many of his odd, hurtful, or scary behaviors as extreme versions of things I myself might have done at one time or another.
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2017, 01:02:03 PM »

Also (sorry for multi-posting), I can tell you what my ex said to me on the subject. He said he decided it wouldn't work between us, and so he forced himself to "get over" me. He said he accomplished it (without telling me it was going on) by doing online CBT, and also running 8 miles a day. Though he didn't say so, he also (again, without telling me) began talking to another woman and then dating her. All that was in place before he turned on me. He said he'd never had to work so hard to get over someone, but he'd done it, and he deserved what he had.

All of that confused me a lot, because it didn't seem like exercise and brain-training would be enough to make me un-love someone. But there you have it.
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 01:32:50 PM »

I think that all of the avoided feelings never leave their system and they just keep piling more and more feelings onto the pile as they go through relationship after relationship, never learning from their mistakes, and never truly facing their problems but avoiding them... These feelings get carried over into the new relationship... It's such a heartbreaking mess...
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 01:40:36 PM »

I thought perhaps she wanted to stay in contact with me, but that was not it either.  After the swap she was happy to be gone until the next time.  She simply saw it all as transactional; very black and white - what is yours / what is mine / can I swap yours for mine.

I am glad that I saw this thread as something similar happened the other day. He recently got his own apartment and has been getting furniture and other stuff. There was a specific piece of furniture that has always been his. It is a family heirloom from his family that is close to 100 years old. He asked me if he could have it and acted afraid that I would say no. It baffles me how he can be so transactional about all of this stuff. There is stuff that is HIS without question. There is no sense of ownership and it is though it is all about transactions. I like the way you describe this.

Excerpt
Putting aside the observation that she has a right to make her own choices etc.; where do those feelings go?  I do not accept nor believe that they vanish and without a trace. 

I have wondered that myself. How can a man lose his wife and kids and seem to express no emotion and no feelings over it? All of the conversations that we have had seem so shallow. I feel like I am an emotional wreck some days because I still can't believe that he is so cold about all of this. He is very willing to give me support for the kids yet seems to have no desire to connect with them.

Excerpt
Do BPs get physically sick from stuffing their feelings?  Is there a perpetual tornadic vortex sucking the senses out of all their living experiences?  Do they really just forget like a psychosis?

I don't think they forget. From my observation of ex, I think that a couple of things may be happening. One, I know that he has a tendency to find things to help him numb out. Part of the problems we had as a couple were the fact that he would find things to obsess over so he didn't have to face reality. In the early days, it was pornography. Then it was church. Then it was music. Then it was video games. Then it was other women. Then it was his 12 step program. Now, he is obsessing over his new apartment and who knows what else. It is hurtful for me to see him move on without any kind of feelings or any kind of expression of regret or even an acknowledgement of how bad things got at the end. It is almost like we were in two very different relationships. I can acknowledge that things were toxic and horrible at the end. Neither one of us behaved very well at the end. When I talk to him, it feels like none of that exists any more. I have tried to talk to him about it and I get stuff like, "I can't live in the past. I can't change anything that I did. I am just trying to improve moving forward." It is lip service. It seems like there is nothing genuine about what he is saying and he acts so unbelievably detached. It hurts to see that.

Excerpt
Isn't this the central question for many of us?  What happened to the electricity that was flowing through the circuit and suddenly there was no electricity and no circuit and so we are a mess but they seem to have no memory.

I have often wondered that myself. I spent almost half of my life with this person. Even without the electricity and the circuit, shouldn't there be some kind of feeling or grief about losing somebody that you spent so much time with and shared so much with? I know the relationship is over and there is no going back. However, I have days where I feel overwhelming grief because he was such an integral part of my life for close to 20 years. In a lot of ways, we grew up together. There are things that he and I did together that I won't do with anybody else. For example, we have 4 kids together. He is the only man that will ever be the father of my children. At this age, I am too old to have any more kids. His actions seem to convey that none of this matter to him. He is moving on with his life and acting like I am just another friend/passerby. I helped him move some of his stuff to his new apartment. We were carrying stuff up the stairs and I was overcome with such anger that we were interacting like nothing had ever happened between us.

I couldn't keep my mouth shut. At one point during the end, he was seeing other women and would make it a point to tell me how much better they were than me. He would tell me that they inspired him and floated his boat. I asked him, "What happened to all of those women that you said were better than me? Why aren't they here helping you now?" I didn't expect him to act like there was ever anything between us. He did pretty much what I expected, which is to have me help and act like I was nothing to him other than a friend that was nice enough to help him move. It hurt like crazy though and it definitely raised the question that you pose. How can he act like he has no memory of what happened between us?

Thank you for this thread!
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 01:51:31 PM »

Excerpt
Do BPs get physically sick from stuffing their feelings?  Is there a perpetual tornadic vortex sucking the senses out of all their living experiences?  :)o they really just forget like a psychosis?  

My ex would say I was "mean" for ever bringing up the past,  yet low and behold she would repeat the past again and again(getting caught lying/cheating because she was aweful at it until her Gaslighting of me took hold). The past triggered shame I believe and she would check out of those conversations never taking any responsibility. In fact I apologized for things I see now made no sense. Dwelling in the past is useless,  but those who forget are destined to repeat it. They seem to apply no lessons learned. It's aspects outside of them that are the problem. Unless you just meant the psychosomatic ailments due to suppression? I'd be interested in an answer to that myself.
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 06:40:02 PM »

A PWBPD's feelings and emotions are too painful for them to process much of the time so they have psychological defences to protect them, such as projecting. These defences all boil down to them making up their own reality to fit their emotion of the moment, this is how they can go from planning a future together to leaving in a matter of days or even hours.
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 07:13:03 PM »

I think it is maybe a combo of difficulties with object constancy combined with dissociation.

Same way many pwBPD may feel abandoned when they leave a SO to go on a business trip or such.  Yet, they feel abandoned.  Because they tend to need the person before them, in proximity, for the connection.  Most of us can internalize and conjure up in our minds a representation of our love and know it (the relationship and love) exists and did not disappear anywhere but will be there when we reunite.  I believe they are impaired in this.

To them, feelings = facts
So if separated, they feel loss means they believe a loss occurred.  Even if logically we still love them as much as ever... .feelings = facts.
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2017, 07:18:57 PM »

I think it is maybe a combo of difficulties with object constancy combined with dissociation.

Same way many pwBPD may feel abandoned when they leave a SO to go on a business trip or such.  Yet, they feel abandoned.  Because they tend to need the person before them, in proximity, for the connection.  Most of us can internalize and conjure up in our minds a representation of our love and know it (the relationship and love) exists and did not disappear anywhere but will be there when we reunite.  I believe they are impaired in this.

To them, feelings = facts
So if separated, they feel loss means they believe a loss occurred.  Even if logically we still love them as much as ever... .feelings = facts.

Wow that's really interesting. It makes sense though for me. When I asked for another chance and she just couldnt say yes. And I kept asking her to see the good times which outweighed the bad. But she wouldn't do it. Probably because her feelings were that this isn't working aND that's her factual reality. And she also said "it got easier to leave you each day we stayed apart." Probably another reason why she refused to meet up at all. Because then her reality would have been questioned again. I think. It's all too fascinatinf
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2017, 08:26:06 PM »

It seems their feelings go haywire due to their susceptibility to stressers which in turn causes inappropriate reactions in general. The increase in stress from the possible shame of those actions helps them disconnect from the positives that were ever seen in the r/s to ease their responsibility for their actions. It's a roundabout.

It seems like they were giving "us" chances and as our boundaries weaken or strengthen so does their view of us. They may not continue to devalue us near the end. They may just see a different person and in that they may be right.

Just riffing here.
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valet
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2017, 11:48:33 PM »

Hey Joe, it might be beneficial to slow down a bit and really look at the general criteria instead of getting into specifics. We're talking about a mental illness here, and as we are not professionals it might be best to leave the majority of the 'deeper' questions to them. They're the ones that need to dig at the underlying thought patterns that make up these personality types. Our job is simply to focus on our lives (as they are) and improve ourselves.

Isn't this the central question for many of us?  What happened to the electricity that was flowing through the circuit and suddenly there was no electricity and no circuit and so we are a mess but they seem to have no memory.

I know it might not be satisfying to hear this—it wasn't enough for me for a long while either—but you've already answered your own question. It was there and then, suddenly, it wasn't. Hard to deal with, but the only truth you can ever really know.

What do you think?
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2017, 01:14:06 AM »

My personal opinion is that the bad feelings are what makes up the chronic feeling of emptiness they suffer. Theyre not empty just full of the hidden negativity. That could be why they never seem to fill the void as its already full.
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2017, 02:53:53 PM »

I know it might not be satisfying to hear this—it wasn't enough for me for a long while either—but you've already answered your own question. It was there and then, suddenly, it wasn't. Hard to deal with, but the only truth you can ever really know.

What do you think?

For me, that pretty much sums it up. It isn't satisfying to hear at all. 

When ex and I were going through marriage prep classes some 20 years ago, one of the things that the couple teaching one of the sessions pointed out is that sometimes the spark goes away and you may not even like each other at times. Even without a serious commitment, it seems like the person would continue to choose you IF there was enough there to build on. When you aren't feeling it, sometimes you choose to stick with it because you have made a commitment to this person or you see that this person is worth it. I think that may be at the root of my problems.

Why didn't ex feel that it was worth doing the work involved in maintaining our marriage/relationship? We had kids and a life together and his answer to all of our problems after 15 years was "Let's see other people."

The answer is simple. It was there one day and gone the next. It doesn't make it easier to swallow for me because it sets off all kinds of feelings of rejection and hurt.

For me, bolting the minute the electricity goes away seems like it is tied to unrealistic expectations. Is it possible to have a relationship where the electricity doesn't go away or fade or even do a little bit of up and down?
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2017, 03:02:15 PM »

My personal opinion is that the bad feelings are what makes up the chronic feeling of emptiness they suffer. Theyre not empty just full of the hidden negativity. That could be why they never seem to fill the void as its already full.

From talking to my ex over the years, I think the reason that he could never seem to fill the void is because he was looking for external sources to fill the void. It was pornography or church or games or music or women or something else. He would do anything he could to avoid facing himself and being alone with his own thoughts and feelings.
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2017, 07:40:08 PM »

I know it might not be satisfying to hear this—it wasn't enough for me for a long while either—but you've already answered your own question. It was there and then, suddenly, it wasn't. Hard to deal with, but the only truth you can ever really know.

What do you think?

Hey Valet

I see your point; the only thing I know is there is no more marriage.  And I agree with your point that we are not professionals and honestly, I don't think the professionals know either.

I guess at the root of my question is a desire to reconnect with her and as such I have thought about contacting her to see where her thinking is at. 

My desire is not just about the loss of a marriage, but a life that we worked hard to create, built the foundation for, but never came to pass.  I can't imagine that she simply forgot all about that.  Neither of us is young enough to think that we are going to recreate what we completed with someone else at this stage and our most likely best chances are to make it work for us.

She isn't seeing anyone that I know of, is looking online to find someone and lives right down the street.  WTH, it doesn't make sense!  Did she forget what she wants?  Change her mind?  What happened to the dreams?  These aren't dreams of a moment, I know they were dreams for her life's outcome.  Does this just vanish? 

I feel tortured by all of this.  I worked so hard to make this happen.  She worked so hard with me to get me to overcome much of what was in the way of our goals and while she worked on herself too, she also worked to keep us from crossing the finish line.  It is hard to simply that is BPD, which I don't even know that it is.

So, I had been thinking of a way to appeal to her as I can't release my life dreams that easily yet I am not sure if she even shares them anymore.
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2017, 08:02:10 PM »

Hey Valet

I see your point; the only thing I know is there is no more marriage.  And I agree with your point that we are not professionals and honestly, I don't think the professionals know either.

I guess at the root of my question is a desire to reconnect with her and as such I have thought about contacting her to see where her thinking is at. 

My desire is not just about the loss of a marriage, but a life that we worked hard to create, built the foundation for, but never came to pass.  I can't imagine that she simply forgot all about that.  Neither of us is young enough to think that we are going to recreate what we completed with someone else at this stage and our most likely best chances are to make it work for us.

She isn't seeing anyone that I know of, is looking online to find someone and lives right down the street.  WTH, it doesn't make sense!  Did she forget what she wants?  Change her mind?  What happened to the dreams?  These aren't dreams of a moment, I know they were dreams for her life's outcome.  Does this just vanish? 

I feel tortured by all of this.  I worked so hard to make this happen.  She worked so hard with me to get me to overcome much of what was in the way of our goals and while she worked on herself too, she also worked to keep us from crossing the finish line.  It is hard to simply that is BPD, which I don't even know that it is.

So, I had been thinking of a way to appeal to her as I can't release my life dreams that easily yet I am not sure if she even shares them anymore.

I obviously am much newer to all this. But I am a therapist (humorously as I ignored all the warning signs) and there's some things I have been learning.

In my situation. Yes. She has forgotten. She has decided that the narrative of our relationship is "It wasn't working." And there was nothing I could do to change that. Whereas I know for certain that all relationships "don't work" and they provide perfect opportunities to learn about one another and compromise there was no way she was gonna see that. For her, it was all good or all bad. And I became a rageaholic when she cut me out after I gave her so many chances that I have definitely made sure it is all bad forever.

Second, they don't share those same feelings anymore. I tried talking to her on the phone twice and she was so calloused and indifferent to my pleas, and the same discussion you are having with us. "Why can't we work on this?" ":)on't you see that I see where I went wrong?" "How can you just fall out of love like that?" But all these questions, if she entertained an answer, would have brought up emotions she couldn't handle.

I'm gonna give my view and the short and sweet of it. Someone with this disorder, or traits, loves us to the extent that we are providing them with whatever it is they want. As someone on this board has reiterated; their feelings=facts. If they feel unwell about the situation in anyway, whether it's real or it's an imagined narrative from past relationships/behaviors, they will view it as all bad. Once we stop doing what they want it's easy for them to get out. Because they have felt abandoned their whole lives. And to risk being abandoned again is far too crippling. We may feel suicidal, depressed, crazy when they leave; but they will sometimes honestly go that route and actually hurt themselves or worse. So to be the one in a  position of control is safe for them.

Logically, they are throwing away the chance to be vulnerable and actually have a meaningful relationship with someone. But that's very scary. And they don't know how to be vulnerable/feel feelings. So they suppress and numb. It's ingrained in them. And we are left scratching our heads. It sucks. I hate it. But it's true.
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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2017, 08:10:02 PM »

She has decided that the narrative of our relationship is "It wasn't working." And there was nothing I could do to change that. Whereas I know for certain that all relationships "don't work" and they provide perfect opportunities to learn about one another and compromise there was no way she was gonna see that.

Thank you for this, I needed to hear this tonight, I totally agree. I struggle often with what is the disorder and what is the person - but it doesn't matter, this is the reality of the situation and allows me to move on because I know there is nothing I could have done differently. I even found an old notepad of my ex which said 'when I am in a relationship I want out and when I am out... .?' she doesn't know I read it but I think of it when I miss her. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who isn't prepared to fight sometimes, because that is love for me.
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2017, 08:46:32 PM »

Thank you for this, I needed to hear this tonight, I totally agree. I struggle often with what is the disorder and what is the person - but it doesn't matter, this is the reality of the situation and allows me to move on because I know there is nothing I could have done differently. I even found an old notepad of my ex which said 'when I am in a relationship I want out and when I am out... .?' she doesn't know I read it but I think of it when I miss her. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who isn't prepared to fight sometimes, because that is love for me.

Believe me I have to remind myself every day. Like my friend says "you wouldn't get mad at a 5 year old when they avoid you because they are mad at you." I just have to understand she's sick. And she's missing out on one of the beauties of life. Which to me is fighting through difficulties and working on them. All she's doing, in my opinion, is running away from vulnerability like she always has.
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« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2017, 08:49:39 PM »

Believe me I have to remind myself every day.

I appreciate this, it helps to know this is part of the process. I have lots of friends supporting and they have all said that I am strong, but they don't know how many times we have to remind ourselves of these facts. I have never known days to be so long!
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 782


« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2017, 09:02:29 PM »

I appreciate this, it helps to know this is part of the process. I have lots of friends supporting and they have all said that I am strong, but they don't know how many times we have to remind ourselves of these facts. I have never known days to be so long!

Soo long. It doesn't stop. I'm on these blogs all day to cope. I know it keeps her in my head to a point but today I've more thought about how she is just mentally not well by reading and sharing. It helps keep me from wandering, too much, to the good times and all that garbage. So I'm gonna keep sharing. I'm glad it's helping you as well my friend!
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“Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth.”
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 66


« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2017, 06:10:10 AM »

"Putting aside the observation that she has a right to make her own choices etc.; where do those feelings go?  I do not accept nor believe that they vanish and without a trace."

Good morning. To answer your question they detach their feelings by dissociation.  It makes absolutely no sense to a rational person. Say you got wasted one night and the next morning you had gaps in your memory... .They can do this without being wasted and fill the gaps with illogical and emotional facts that they believe as true, despite being false.  They paint you black and then they realize they cannot deal with it and find the next person to have their attention needs fixed. Starts with idealization, devaluing and discard.  If they cannot find anyone they recycle old partners. As hard as it may be to accept, they do vanish temporary without a trace or get projected on to the next.  They may decide to remember their feelings down the road when their needs are not met.
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