Any advice?

[purekalm]

My ex was supposed to come up and see our son and grab his stuff but he couldn't make it. At first, he was acting all sad and angry. He hasn't contacted my son in over a month now. Last night I called him to talk to him about it and he started sounding a bit like he did when he would talk about what he wanted to do with us, which ended up he wants a divorce. He gave me some lame excuse why he hasn't called and then I asked him point blank, "Are you saying you're not sure if you want to be in his life anymore?" He got a bit frustrated and kept saying he didn't know, he needed a few more days to think about it, he was considering moving even further away than he is now (but still in the U.S.) and what if he couldn't ever come see him because he'd be too far to travel and some other bull crap? I shouldn't have been, but I was a bit stunned. I already know what he's going to choose after all that. I... .I'm... .I just... .

The past week my son has been sticking to me real close. I went to go throw something away the other day and he ran out of the bathroom thinking I was leaving. Once he realized I was throwing something away he was ok. He's been following me into the bathroom if no one else is in the room or making me come in the bathroom when he has to go. If someone is in here when I have to go he'll hold on to them or tell them they have to stay with him. Just this morning he started yelling out of nowhere "Mommy stay right here! Stay right here Mommy!" ... .I was right behind him and he had just been looking at me.

I've told him that even though Daddy left I'll never leave him. I love him and I'll always be right here. With the news I'm about to have to tell him, that his dad even left him, I don't know what to do. It's breaking my heart to see him like this and I know it's only going to get worse when I have to tell him. He started acting up when his dad never showed or called as well. What else can I do to help him?

Purekalm

Also, just in case you don't know, my son has autism and he's very intelligent but lacks proper social skills. He understands more than people give him credit for, but sometimes you have to tell him things differently. He's seven.

[ArleighBurke]

I'm sorry for you and your son - having to go through this.

I'm not sure how much advice you'll get here - this isn't really a BPD question - it seems more like a question on how to manage your autistic son... .Are there other websites/groups for autistic carers that would be better suited to ask?

Not trying to shut you down, but i suspect that dealing with an autistic child is quite different to dealing with a BPD child.

[purekalm]

ArleighBurke,

This particular forum isn't specifically for dealing with BPD children, (Co-parenting After the Split) but I understand what you are saying.

Maybe I worded it wrong, but I know others have dealt with similar issues and wanted to know how they approached their children with the news that the BPD parent isn't coming back, what they may or may not have told them is the reason why, knowing the parent suffers from BPD and is not capable of being a parent.

I specifically mentioned he has autism in the case that someone else may also have a child with autism and what they may have done. A "typical" child is different, yes, but they are all children and know when something is amiss.

Purekalm

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi purekalm,

While my son has ASD, (what was called Aspergers) he never really had acting out issues for not seeing his dad.  I think this is because we had always low expectations set.  His biodad died when he was too little to know him.  A friend of mine acts as a surrogate dad, my son is in his 20's and very much knows him as his only dad.  When he was little, when (surrogate) dad changed plans or such, it was a bit disappointing... . but after I saw that his dad could only do what he could do and I had to be grateful for anything, I helped "frame" my son's experiences for him to prepare him in case plans changed.

Ex: ":)ad says he may come by today to take you to the zoo or maybe something else, great if he can make it, if not we will go to see a movie.  So lets plan to go pick a movie we want to see, but if dad comes by, you can go find something to do with dad today and we can do the movie next week together."

This way my son wasn't putting all his eggs into one basket.
I try to frame it like dad coming is a "treat" if he does come vs a let down if he doesn't.

I just expect he can do what he can do.
Likely the fact that this man volunteered for the role as a surrogate dad helped to curb MY own expectations which made it easier for me to convey gratitude for any sense of a dad my kid could have vs frustrations for what he did not have.  Imo, a lot in life is a matter of perspective.

Also, with my son's ASD, he is hyper intune to my mood, emotions and such... .so he could smell my disappointment or frustrations a mile away.  I know he could tell I was grateful for what little relationship he had with a male figure.

[purekalm]

Sunfl0wer,

... I helped "frame" my son's experiences for him to prepare him in case plans changed.

I did do this with going to ToysRus. It was supposed to be what his dad did with him (with me of course) when he came up here, but he never came up. I told him when I found out that he might not go that we would still go and we would go with his aunt. We ended up going with both his aunts and one of his cousins, so he still had a good time, but it wasn't his daddy.

I think that's part of the problem is that his dad wants just enough of him to brag about but not enough to really BE his dad. He can't handle him, never could. My son has a big heart, a really big heart, and he misses him and loves him, regardless of how awful he was. I know that he's better off without him, it's been obvious in how much he's grown and accomplished in just five months! (Proud mom )
He's already refused to accept that he's not coming back and rephrased what I told him to ":)addy's still working, but he'll be coming home soon!" He got busy with something else and I'm not going to push it right now. I know it will take time. It's so not fair to him.

Imo, a lot in life is a matter of perspective.

Yes, that is true. In one way I'm extremely grateful that he's finally being honest about what he wants, but the damage it's causing because he took so long is what gets me.

My son has always been aware of who his parents are, even though his dad usually ignored him on a daily basis. I think he misses his presence. There were some good times and he would sit on his lap while he played games and repeat what the announcer said and other things. He's probably focusing on that.

Thanks for replying. I appreciate your thoughtful response.

Purekalm

[vortex of confusion]

Given that pwBPD are prone to changing their mind so much, is there a real justification for giving your son information like, ":)ad has left and isn't coming back."?

Until things are more certain, it seems like it might be too confusing to give your son any kind of information with any kind of certainty.

Have you given him any kind of verbal reassurance? My kids don't really want to see their dad but they do seem to find comfort when I tell them things like, "No matter what happens, he is your daddy."

I know that when ex first left, the kids were worried about his safety. They wanted to know where dad was and that he was safe. I told them where he was and I assured them that that dad was safe and that he would be back to see them. I didn't have to give them specifics. It was more along the lines of, "I plan on doing everything I can to make sure that you get to see your daddy. Daddy loves you. I don't know when you will get to see him again." When I asked him to leave last year, he took off in a huff and went several states away. I had no idea what his long term plans were. I could tell the kids that I didn't know what daddy was going to do but that I was certain he would be back to see them and I also knew that he was safe.

Does your ex text you or call you at all? If so, is there a way to let your son talk to him? If not, would it be possible to tell your son something like, "I talked to your daddy today. He says hi and he loves you." Can you ask your ex to text you pictures or something to show your son and let him know that daddy is still alive and still loves him? Would it be possible for your son to Skype with his dad?

Also, if ex is unpredictable, can you find a different way to handle his potential visits? For example, if he says he is going to visit at a specific time, don't tell your son until ex texts you that he is on his way. That way, you can give your son warning that he will be showing up but it also won't create a situation where he is looking forward to dad visiting for an extended period of time. How would your son handle a surprise visit from dad? Would it be possible to not tell your son in advance and let dad show up? I know that some kids can't handle any kind of surprises, even good ones.

[purekalm]

vortex of confusion,

Given that pwBPD are prone to changing their mind so much, is there a real justification for giving your son information like, ":)ad has left and isn't coming back."?

Yes. His dad has been adamant about divorcing me, going so far as to point out that he's trying to hurry it up as soon as possible. Because of that statement I asked him why he was in such a rush, did he have someone waiting and he said no in a way that was yes, so... .besides the fact that he tries to start an argument with me almost every time I initiate contact, which I only do for specific reasons. I don't want to talk to him if I don't have to at this point. He has since been acting the same way about being with our son. It's been over a month since he's initiated contact with him, and I've reminded him of the fact recently and he still hasn't. He can play games, talk to friends, joke with his family, but completely abandon us all in a second. He shut us out pretty sudden. Also, he chose to leave us.

Have you given him any kind of verbal reassurance?

Yes. Even though I don't think he does, I've told him that his dad still loves him but he doesn't love me anymore so he'll only be coming to visit when he can and then he's going back. I've stated it multiple times in any way I can think of and try to only talk about it when he brings something up himself so it's not something that's always on his mind, I hope anyway.

Does your ex text you or call you at all? If so, is there a way to let your son talk to him? If not, would it be possible to tell your son something like, "I talked to your daddy today. He says hi and he loves you." Can you ask your ex to text you pictures or something to show your son and let him know that daddy is still alive and still loves him? Would it be possible for your son to Skype with his dad?

Yes, rarely for information on the divorce, logistics. He used to call and ask about him and try to talk to him but that changed after he asked for a divorce. It's like he decided to divorce both of us but didn't tell me right away.

Yes, just the other night my son called him unexpectedly because he was sad and we had just had another one of those short conversations. When he was done and gave me the phone my ex was trying not to cry and telling me it was completely fine he called. It was after that he started saying he wasn't sure what to do about him. I've sent him pictures and videos and all kinds of things for my son's sake because he wanted his dad to know.

When he did used to Skype with him he'd always turn his video on so my son could see him. I think that's the problem is he kind of just dropped off the face of the earth for him and my explanations aren't enough. A child with asd doesn't trust as easily, even if you've proved yourself so a million times over and until his dad gets his head on straight and tells him, which we have talked about he needs to do with him agreeing, he isn't going to let it go.

Also, if ex is unpredictable, can you find a different way to handle his potential visits?

He moved 14 hours away, so without a job he doesn't have the means to come up whenever he wants to or often. He says he's trying to get a job and at the same time mentioned that once he does get one or two he won't have as much time to call my son or visit him maybe once a year if he can get time off.

My theory is that what he said a couple months before he left was true. He couldn't stand to look at us and be around us because he couldn't handle the guilt for all that he'd done. Not having to talk to us has made it easier for him to not think about it and then whenever he had to talk to either one of us it brings it all back up so now he's trying to get rid of both of us with his guilt, but he doesn't understand that isn't how that works. He's been sick a lot since he's been down there, having all kinds of problems and he doesn't get what's going on or why he's suffering... .go figure.

Purekalm

[vortex of confusion]

Yes. His dad has been adamant about divorcing me, going so far as to point out that he's trying to hurry it up as soon as possible.

That is between you and his dad. How is that relevant to him directly? I am not trying to be mean. It is really important to keep the stuff between you and his dad between you and his dad. He can't understand any of this. All he knows is that his dad left him. Whether or not a divorce happens right away or later is not relevant to your son. What are the chances that he will NEVER see his dad again? Even with all of the excuses, there is probably a good chance that he will see his dad again at some point. Would it be easier for your son to understand something like, ":)ad has left and I don't know when he will be back to see you."

If he is in a hurry to divorce you, he will have to come back to at least go to court and deal with the legal stuff.

Even though I don't think he does, I've told him that his dad still loves him but he doesn't love me anymore so he'll only be coming to visit when he can and then he's going back. I've stated it multiple times in any way I can think of and try to only talk about it when he brings something up himself so it's not something that's always on his mind, I hope anyway.

What is your reason for telling your son that his dad doesn't love you any more?

I don't think it is good for a child to hear that his parents don't love each other. The reason that I say that is because of some of the things that my kids have told me. After ex left, one of the kids said something along the lines of, "If you and dad don't love each other any more, does that mean that my existence is invalid?" I assured her that her dad and I still love each other very much. Put your feelings aside on this. No matter how much you think that his dad doesn't love you, don't tell him that. I told my daughters that Dad and I love each other and we love them. Dad has some problems that he needs to work on. He can't live with us any more. That is okay. I am not sure how things will work out but I can assure you that we both love you all very much.

Yes, just the other night my son called him unexpectedly because he was sad and we had just had another one of those short conversations. When he was done and gave me the phone my ex was trying not to cry and telling me it was completely fine he called. It was after that he started saying he wasn't sure what to do about him. I've sent him pictures and videos and all kinds of things for my son's sake because he wanted his dad to know.

Then encourage your son to call him!

I think that's the problem is he kind of just dropped off the face of the earth for him and my explanations aren't enough. A child with asd doesn't trust as easily, even if you've proved yourself so a million times over and until his dad gets his head on straight and tells him, which we have talked about he needs to do with him agreeing, he isn't going to let it go.

It doesn't matter if a child has ASD. This stuff is hard and there is no adequate way to find words to explain why a parent would abandon a child. Just last night, my daughter and I were talking and she brought up the fact that she didn't understand why her dad didn't make any effort to try to come back home. She told me straight up, "Mom, you were pretty fragile back then. All dad would have had to do was make a tiny effort and you would have let him come back. I don't understand why he couldn't make an effort. He doesn't want to be with us." She is a very intelligent young lady and it doesn't make sense to her either. There is no explanation. Kids don't let this stuff go because it is so confusing. Think about all of the people on these forums and their inability to let stuff go. How many of us here post and post and post because we can't let things go because we are trying to understand what the heck just happened. We supposedly have mature brains and have a better ability to make connections yet we still post trying to understand things. Imagine being a little kid with an immature brain and the inability to understand this stuff. Your son doesn't have a forum like this. All he has is his parents confusing behavior. Even if his dad gets his head on straight and talks to him, your son still might not let it go.

One of the things that I have done with my kids is actually sit down with them and look through photos of when we were a family with dad. They can have fond memories of dad and we can talk about the good times. Whether they see dad or not, he is still a part of our lives. We have photos of him. No matter how much of his stuff I try to box up or move, there are constant reminders of him everywhere.

I do bring up dad to the kids. There are things that he used to do with them. I don't pretend that he doesn't exist and I don't try to avoid talking about dad. Whether we see him or not, he is still very much a part of all of us. I try to acknowledge that and honor it even though it is sometimes very, very painful. 

My theory is that what he said a couple months before he left was true. He couldn't stand to look at us and be around us because he couldn't handle the guilt for all that he'd done. Not having to talk to us has made it easier for him to not think about it and then whenever he had to talk to either one of us it brings it all back up so now he's trying to get rid of both of us with his guilt, but he doesn't understand that isn't how that works.

Actually, he can stop talking to you outright if he wants. He can start pretending that you don't exist to keep from facing the pain. The problem is that none of this helps your son. Your son doesn't need a bunch of complicated explanations about divorce or his dad not loving you or anything like that. He needs to know that both of his parents love him and that you are going to keep him safe and not leave him.

[purekalm]

vortex of confusion,

What are the chances that he will NEVER see his dad again?

Actually, pretty good. He's talked about leaving before, trying to find a way he wouldn't have to pay child support, two years ago, on his birthday no less. He's already talked about not coming to court if he doesn't have to. I've talked to some attorneys and they said if I file for divorce instead of a dissolution (in which he'd have to be present) that I'd just have to have a family member or friend at court and he wouldn't have to attend. After that call, when my son called him unexpectedly is when he started mentioning he didn't know what he wanted to do about being in his life anymore. Before he was all that he wanted to be in his life, then right after he wasn't sure anymore. You don't know him, he's trying to disappear as fast as he can. He even mentioned that if he does get the chance to come and get his stuff he'll come when my son is asleep so that he doesn't hurt him more. I don't think he understands the pain he's already causing him. I tried to talk him into going at least out to eat with him or something and he was ok with that, but who's to say he won't change his mind again? I haven't told my son a thing, because I don't know when or if it will happen.

What is your reason for telling your son that his dad doesn't love you any more?

In short, because it's true. Second, because you can't really teach him things in short steps or he will always think that's right. I don't think it's fair to give him hope that his dad will come back and live with us when I already know he won't. (You can take this for projection if you want.) I already know what it feels like to be the child who is promised to over and over and nothing ever happens. It hurts worse and you start to despise the person for it over time. I won't lie to him and give him false hope, but I'm not being mean either. I only told him that once. He wants to believe that his dad is at work and I'm not going to destroy his delusion, but I won't lie to him if he asks me. He may not fully understand, but at the least he isn't hoping and waiting for his dad to come back and can settle into it being just us. I've asked my ex more than once if he's absolutely sure this is what he wants and if he would rather have a separation to work things out, he's adamant that a divorce is the only option. I already know how it's going to work out, unfortunately.

Then encourage your son to call him!

Why? The more time he spends with his dad the more his dad pulls away.

Whether we see him or not, he is still very much a part of all of us. I try to acknowledge that and honor it even though it is sometimes very, very painful. 

I know this, and I have. I don't stop him from talking about him. We still talk about good times and I don't bash his dad in any sense of the word. I made sure to tell him that his dad still loves him. Not in a snarky way or anything. Even though his dad sucks, I'm not going to add more pressure to him like that. He'll decide for himself how he feels about him, now and later on in life. No matter how hard I try sometimes I still cry when talking to him about him because I still love him, I wanted to work this out. He chose not too, so I'm trying to do the best for my son that I know how.

The problem is that none of this helps your son. Your son doesn't need a bunch of complicated explanations about divorce or his dad not loving you or anything like that. He needs to know that both of his parents love him and that you are going to keep him safe and not leave him.

I didn't give a long and complicated explanation, he wouldn't even sit for that, no matter how sad he is. I haven't even mentioned divorce, he wouldn't understand. I just said that because daddy doesn't love mommy anymore he won't be coming back to live here with us. He loves you and will still come up to see you when he can, but he will go back because he lives there now. Anything in this whole freaking thing is complicated to a child, not fair, ridiculous. I'm trying to make it as simple as possible. He knows and I've reminded him 100% that both me and his dad love him. I've told him that I will never leave him over and over in a bunch of ways. It doesn't stop him from hurting or wondering if I will leave too. He has to decide when he feels ok. I can't do that, no matter how much I'd love too.

Everyone's situations are different is all I can say. When there was still hope, there was nothing to say except that daddy was working and he'd be back, but I didn't know when. Now that I know it will most likely be never, why hurt him with hope of a future he won't have?