I may decide to leave this week

[DaddyBear77]

I have ignored every other aspect of my life for 17 years. The only part of my life that I've focused on is the part with my pwBPD.

And yet, none of this really changes anything. She still feels like my love is somehow conditional. She tells me I can't possibly REALLY love her so why does she even bother staying. She should just leave.

Of course this shifts (daily) and in another few hours or even minutes, her internal state will change and she'll feel better again. We'll hug and kiss and things will feel better for her. But I'll still be rattled and unable to focus and will lose sight of the 5 or 6 other things that were personally important to me last night before this all went off the rails.

And you all have given me wonderful advice and when I'm done posting I'll go back and reread it all and see if maybe I can try some other way of doing things that will make it more bearable.

But there will always be another low. Another battle. Another struggle to remember the right combination of dance moves.

This needs to end.

DB

[Lalathegreat]

It is such a difficult choice to know for yourself when it is time to leave. Good luck as you move forward - I will be thinking about you.

[Notwendy]

I think you absolutely have the right to decide to leave or to stay.

A reason we don't tell posters what to do either way is that- this is a decision that has to come from you. Telling you what to do takes that process away from you. It is in our own conviction of what to do that we are able to carry it through. But it helps to have support because either decision involves some difficulty.

Once a poster has decided what do do, then it is good to move into the improving or detaching board- where other posters can be supportive of the decision. The conflicted or deciding board is where posters consider what to do.

If you are undecided- that is exactly where you are at. It's an individual journey.

One thing I would suggest is if you leave- to have a plan for you. I would not discuss it- threats of leaving are scary to the spouse and you- and also if you are not able to carry them through are empty threats. The decision to leave is a sort of boundary " I do not want to be in this situation" and like all boundaries, need to be enforced to be effective. Also be aware of the potential to recycle and the pattern- push/pull, leave, recycle that is an unstable situation for a family.

I can not speak from experience. Although growing up with BPD mom resulted in me playing out some dysfunction in my marriage, it is a relatively mild situation. This kind of dysfunction between people is on a spectrum. Each situation is a bit different even if some behavior patterns are similar. One person's decision to stay or leave may not be the best one for someone else.

But I do know that both decisions involve some difficulty- and so if you leave, be prepared for that. You have a child, so there will be legal issues. I am not a lawyer- but in some cases, leaving may be considered legal abandonment. Consulting a lawyer about what to do could be helpful. In addition- where to stay is another consideration.

This is not the same as removing yourself from conflict in the moment. It may be that in the middle of an argument- you take the child and walk out. But be sure it is understood that this is temporary. I can imagine the cops being called on a kidnapping case or something like that. I know as a kid, my dad would put us in the car and take us out to eat, or for a long drive. I would bet he was getting out of some conflict at the moment. But there wasn't an indication of divorce or leaving- it must have been understood that this was in the moment.

I know the idea of divorce came up in my home. As a young child, it was scary. We didn't understand what that meant. However, as we got older, we did. We would not have blamed our dad if he did. We knew it was his choice and we wanted him to be happy- and if leaving achieved that - we'd be supportive of it. But stay or leave- she is still our mother and something we would have to consider regardless of whether our parents stayed married or not.

If this is your decision, then I hope you get the information and support to help you through this transition and wish you strength and peace with it.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Hi.  I think I am shooting for the record of time it takes to decide to stay or go. But, for a long time, i kept getting incremental improvements in my life as I worked on me and my skills and abilities.  As I got better, the life I had day to day got better too.  So, it has been a good journey. In my specific case, I'm in a marriage of quiet desperation rather than physical harm and danger, so I can take my time.  I have done a lot to emotionally separate from my uBPDw.  I think there have been so many changes in me, and so much distance that the marriage will not be saveable, but, since I am on my path, I simply accept that the end may well come.  And, it will be my fault, and my choice, and my failure to prevent it that causes it.  And I accept that.

Unless you are in harm's way, you have time to think.  Make sure to keep this confidential from your wife for as long as possible.  Try sounding out your ideas here on these boards, with a therapist, or clergy, or really trusted friend. 

Another thing I learned is to not expect anyone else to really get it, or really understand.  Rejection, the silent treatment, constant quiet breakdowns by my wife, just aren't easy to explain but very costly to my emotional and spiritual wellness.  I've decided to tell people that really wont get it that I'm considering divorce since my wife doesn't like meatloaf.  Or, I could open up more and say there are personality differences. 

It's your life.  Best wishes!

[Grey Kitty]

Notwendy said a bunch of good things, and I'm not going to repeat them. I do want to emphasize one thing:

Do NOT talk to your wife about leaving, moving out, divorcing, or anything like it.

Even if she has threatened to do it 1000 times, as soon as the words come out of your mouth, she will have a powerful (and negative!) reaction. Yes, it is a crazy double standard... .but trust me, I've seen it, both in my r/s and in others here.

Make your decision. If you decide to leave, make your plan to do it in the least destructive way you can. Part of your plan will be when and how to tell her. Don't mention it until that time.

If you decide to stay, you don't need to deal with the damage done by telling her about your doubts.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Aside, GreyKitty, can you describe what a least destructive way to discuss divorce sounds like?
I'm sort of standing around waiting to discuss this with my wife, but, I will only get one chance to discuss it for the first time.  I think you are polite to say that her reaction will be powerful and negative.  And, it seems that the only way to discuss it is when you have solidly decided and are more or less informing her that she is getting a divorce.
Thanks.

Furthermore, I think my choices and decisions to divorce or not will be influenced by how my wife handles this idea.  At least, I think it will be.  Too bad that she's not rational, because I'd love to have a business meeting about the marriage.

And DB77, I hear you, and I know the dance - or ambivalence - of being okay with staying married, and then terrified of spending one more week with her.

[Lucky Jim]

I simply accept that the end may well come.  And, it will be my fault, and my choice, and my failure to prevent it that causes it.  And I accept that.

Samwize: I don't subscribe to the view that, if you decide to part ways, it will be all your fault, your choice and your failure to prevent it.  You've had a lot of help from your W, needless to say, regarding the circumstances you both find yourselves in.  I don't think there's any particular timetable for getting off the fence, so take your time.  When the time comes, I suspect you'll know it.

DB77: Sorry to highjack your thread for a minute.  I can appreciate your quandary, because I was once in it myself.  Suggest you decline to worry about her views on "conditional love" and, instead, focus on what is right for you.  At the end of the day, it's your life, not hers, that you're leading.  What are your gut feelings?

LuckyJim

[PeteWitsend]

Notwendy said a bunch of good things, and I'm not going to repeat them. I do want to emphasize one thing:

Do NOT talk to your wife about leaving, moving out, divorcing, or anything like it.

Even if she has threatened to do it 1000 times, as soon as the words come out of your mouth, she will have a powerful (and negative!) reaction. Yes, it is a crazy double standard... .but trust me, I've seen it, both in my r/s and in others here.

... .

I kinda made this mistake the other day.  I was explaining to my wife why something she did upset me, and why I reacted the way I did, and what I didn't like her doing/saying, and she just kept saying ":)ivorce me then."

I finally said "if the only option you give someone when they make a request is divorce, what do you think is going to happen?"

she pretty much had a meltdown at that part.  oops.  it's hard not to take the bait sometimes though.

[vortex of confusion]

As somebody that has ended an almost 20 year relationship, I can tell you that you will know it when you are ready to end it. I waffled and was undecided and was all over the place. And then, ex did something and it was the straw that broke the camels back and I was done. In that moment, there was no doubt or uncertainty.

No matter what anybody says or tells you, you will know.

[DaddyBear77]

And then, ex did something and it was the straw that broke the camels back and I was done.

@vortex I've been waiting too long for that straw. Straws get piled on every day. Every straw results in another coping mechanism, usually self deprecating and self destructive, and so while it SEEMS like I'm handling the straws, in reality I'm just growing these ugly, unworkable "muscles" and holding WAY more straws than I ever should have

Do NOT talk to your wife about leaving, moving out, divorcing, or anything like it.

@Grey Kitty - um, too late. I have spoken about divorce with her, e.g., after she brings it up 1000 times, I say "maybe it IS the best thing?" - and yours (and other's) predictions about her reaction are spot on. It resonates. It rattles around and for days and days afterwords it comes up, either by a direct statement from her or a passive "why don't you love me anymore?" The BIGGEST lever she uses is with my FoO (see other threads on this) - she "blames" my mother for wanting to split us apart.

Once a poster has decided what do do, then it is good to move into the improving or detaching board- where other posters can be supportive of the decision.

@NotWendy thank you. If I make a firm decision on what to do, I will move to the appropriate board. But I am not decided yet. I am still very conflicted. But I sense that I am nearing a decision.

I saw a lawyer yesterday, and got some good advice and information which will help me make a better decision for myself and my daughter. I also spoke to my parents and they are also amazingly supportive and are ready to help me no matter what decision I make. And of course, everyone here has helped so much with your comments and thoughts. I really do appreciate it.

DB

[Grey Kitty]

@Grey Kitty - um, too late. I have spoken about divorce with her, e.g., after she brings it up 1000 times, I say "maybe it IS the best thing?" - and yours (and other's) predictions about her reaction are spot on.

OK, too late to have never mentioned it. Sorry to hear that. OTOH, she would be blowing up about something else most likely if it wasn't that.

HOWEVER, it isn't completely too late.

Dude, don't be foolish enough to mention it again!

Well, not until it is a planned move in your actual divorce plan, if that is your choice.

[vortex of confusion]

@vortex I've been waiting too long for that straw. Straws get piled on every day. Every straw results in another coping mechanism, usually self deprecating and self destructive, and so while it SEEMS like I'm handling the straws, in reality I'm just growing these ugly, unworkable "muscles" and holding WAY more straws than I ever should have

I know how that feels. I did it for almost 20 years.

What keeps you hanging around to build those "muscles"? For me, it was my kids and the belief that staying with ex was best for them. Once I established that staying with their dad wasn't what was best, I lost the ability to hold the straws. That is when I was able to make a decision and carry it out. I said I was done so many times that I lost count.

If you are still waiting for that straw, figure out what it is that is keeping you there? There is no right or wrong answer. Once you figure that out, it will be much easier to decide whether or not you want to keep taking on straws or leave. I spent a lot of time taking inventory and trying to figure out what was best for everyone involved. It took a lot of time and emotional energy.

[Notwendy]

DB, it makes sense that you are undecided. Leaving is a big decision and one that you do need to be as sure as possible to undertake.

I think it is important to not bring this up, even if she does. Things that are said in the moment, may not be relevant once that moment is over. For someone with BPD- feelings are facts. If she is angry- she may feel- in that moment- that she wants a divorce. But once the rage is over, perhaps not even remember what she said.

I think it helps to not see these moments as personal about you, but all her bad feelings being projected out. It is like a kid with a stomach ache. The child throws up, and then feels much better. So is it with feelings.

Let's all be honest here. Even among those who are happily married- I would bet we all have those moments where we are aggravated with a spouse and also a child ( most likely a teenager! ). But if we are emotionally mature, we recognize this is temporary- we love and are committed to that person, even if we are aggravated in the moment. For someone with BPD, the feeling in the moment is how they believe they are. But the moment passes.

My mother, in an instance- could say that we were the worst kids on the planet, that she hated my father and was going to leave him. The next morning the two of them would be smiling and happy together at the breakfast table--- as if nothing had happened. We  would be shaken up by the event, but it was here today, not tomorrow.

She can snap in an instant if triggered, but once over, it seems she even erases the event from her memory. When Dad died, I was disowned, written out of their will. ( don't know if he did it or she did it). Then a few years later, sent me to the lawyer to sign some papers having forgotten that my name was not on them. She will call up and rage that she isn't sending the kids presents anymore- and the next birthday- call them up and ask what presents they want.

Your task, DB, whether you stay or leave is to learn to stay calm in the emotional storm. It is how she manages her feelings. When you react, you add to the drama. If she says the D word, then you say it, she won't relate that to what she said. She may have forgotten what she said. This just triggers her.

I know, that no matter what my mother says, she doesn't want me to walk away from her. It is up to me to decide what role I want to have in my relationship with her- and not react to her variable feelings.

If and when, a divorce happens- when it is thoroughly planned- lawyers in place, plans to do it, and you are on that path- then, there will come a time to divulge this plan. But as a conversation topic, just no.