Divorce/separation conversation

[Happy2017]

After 3 decades of marriage, I have finally concluded that I need to talk to my husband who has many BPD traits, about a separation that may lead to a divorce. I'm very anxious about this, as he has been v defensive, hostile and demeaning about prior discussions on this topic and will very likely be extremely resistant because I am the sole salary earner. Tips on how to introduce the topic, and any other advice appreciated. No kids, only a small dog.

[takingandsending]

Hello Happy2017 and welcome to bpdfamily.

Discussing a separation with a partner can be intimidating with or without BPD. But with a person with BPD (or traits), it will possibly result in very elevated emotions and as you noted, personal attacks. How are things currently in your home - stable, volatile, fear or concern of threatening behavior? I ask because hostility can take many forms.

You may need to reconcile yourself to the possibility that your spouse will resist your efforts, so you may have to make the break yourself. I would definitely consult an attorney before you consider a move just to know and understand the property laws where you live. As far as how to inftroduce the topic to your husband, if you are currently both unhappy in the marriage, you could acknowledge his unhappiness and empathize with that. I took that approach with my STBxw, that we both worked hard and deserved more happiness from our marriage and that we weren't getyinv it from each other. I didn't set a date but gave a general timeline and just enough information for her to know I was serious.

How have you started this topic in the past? What has been his typical response? People with BPD are expert at putting others on the defensive, but it is very important to not play that game because it is a no win, no winner result. 

[ForeverDad]

If you talk one-on-one as before, likely the discussion will transform into some form of verbal confrontation or conflict as before, perhaps worse.  Separation times are usually when the risk for conflict is highest.  Do you have trusted friends or counselors or persons who are perceived like counselors who can be present or at least nearby?

You mentioned you're the only one working.  Has it always been that way or did he retire or quit working?  I ask because if he was a freeloader the entire time it may be that the courts will default, perhaps only at first, to having you support him financially.  If he does not have the resources to support himself after the marriage ends then one perspective you need to always have when in court is to request  that he needs to become self-sufficient financially.  In other words, get a job.

I agree with T&S, seek legal advice before discussing it with him.  I think you should also seek advice from your local DV resources.  They can speak in depth with you and determine whether you're unconsciously minimizing the conflict.

There is a vast difference between marriage and divorce.  It take two to make a marriage success whereas it only takes one to end a marriage.  What I'm saying is that when you discuss the issues with him, you and he don't have to argue about whether to remain together, separate or divorce.  You have the right to inform him of your decision.  You do not need his approval to separate or divorce.  So if he starts rehashing the past yet again or any other nonproductive path, you can cut it short and avoid it getting any uglier.

Of course, always be safe.  That why it is best to have people you know and trust there or nearby so incidents can be averted.

[Happy2017]

I appreciate the advice. I have consulted legal advice and have briefed a few trusted colleagues and friends. I have a few people in my city who would be supportive during this process. He has not worked for 2/3 of the marriage, as he went into leading a non profit organization from which he drew no salary (there isn't much funding anyway to provide a salary). My query was also around what to say and what not to say. I wanted to focus mostly on what I feel and not get into blaming, as that goes no where, e.g. "I am very unhappy in this marriage, and feel that I need a separation." He will likely demand to know why this is being raised at this point, and actually the trigger has been that I was recently notified that he has again made an inappropriate contact with a female, may have propositioned her (online), been rejected and then been threatening, bullying and demeaning along with lying about his academic credentials and his "contacts" (yes I have the documentation on this online exchange).
I don't want to bring this up, as this leads to endless rounds of denials, counter accusations, etc.
So would like to say something like: "I just felt it was time, as I can't stand the unhappiness anymore."
On hostility, he has been physically aggressive with me and others in the past (with me, it's been grabbing, pushing, not hitting sometimes, not all the time), and verbally abusive (profanity, name calling, shouting, throwing or slamming things). So I've been counseled to have an exit plan as soon as I've told him (e.g. leaving the apt and staying somewhere else for a few nights). This means preparing a "getaway" bag, documents, cash. All quite hard to do as he works from home and we have joint accounts that he monitors closely.

[ForeverDad]

Expect that once he has been informed you're ending the marriage then the accounts are likely to be raided.  As married persons, you both have equal rights to joint accounts.  If you wanted to be fair then immediately beforehand move 50% (or more, if you're not so concerned about being overly fair) to a personal account.  Or use it to pay your lawyer's retainer.  Or pay a few months ahead on your rent.  Or some other way to avoid him disappearing the money.

Hmm, I figure too he probably has squirreled money away over the years where you can't easily find it.

Your lawyer probably told you that any money he snatches unfairly will not shock the courts.  The lawyer will probably say it will be included in the financial split near the end of the divorce.  Well, for us it is usually long forgotten by the time we get to that stage.  So whatever he raids will never get returned or fully accounted for when you divvy up the marital assets and debts.

Talking about debts, odds are you as the working spouse will end up with the majority of the debts.  So rather than leave large sums in the banks for him to be tempted to move out of your reach, pay down your debts, put your earnings to better use.

If you have joint credit cards, try to close them.  If he's just a card hold, then you can limit his use of them.  If joint then you both have control and it may be hard to block him from racking up huge charges on the way out the door, so to speak.

And if he claims "I earn no income" trying to get support from you then be sure your stated position in court and elsewhere is to seek to have his income imputed to an amount that he is capable of earning.  My then-separated spouse was imputed to minimum wage.  It wasn't much, but it was better than entering zero as her income.

This is what happened with one divorced person I knew, showing that you can't believe or accept every claim... .

Years ago I knew a mother who asked for help, her Ex had filed to reduce or end his child support payments.  He was claiming he didn't have income.  She had his tax filings, he drove late airline baggage to the passengers and so his mileage credits reduced his taxable income to zero.  Whether income is taxable or not doesn't matter in child support cases, just plain old income.

[heartandwhole]

Hi Happy2017,

I'd like to join  takingandsending and  ForeverDad in welcoming you. I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. Divorce is hard enough without having to deal with BPD and physical violence.

On hostility, he has been physically aggressive with me and others in the past (with me, it's been grabbing, pushing, not hitting sometimes, not all the time), and verbally abusive (profanity, name calling, shouting, throwing or slamming things). So I've been counseled to have an exit plan as soon as I've told him (e.g. leaving the apt and staying somewhere else for a few nights). This means preparing a "getaway" bag, documents, cash. All quite hard to do as he works from home and we have joint accounts that he monitors closely.

I commend you on making a Safety Plan. Do you also have local domestic violence helpline numbers handy? The people there are trained to handle these kinds of situations and have access to resources you may not even have known were available to you. You can call just for informational purposes—you don't have to wait for a crisis.

As for how to broach the subject with your husband: we have tools on the site that describe how to reduce conflict and communicate in a way that will help you be heard. I've posted some links below, and feel free to explore those pages, as they have even more communication articles that may be helpful for you.

Ending Conflict

Setting Boundaries

Keep posting, Happy2017, and stay safe. 

heartandwhole

[SamwizeGamgee]

Hi!  You are in a scary spot right now.  I know it can very very tough and very risky with even otherwise stable people - emotions can run high.  I have noticed that as I studied out divorce more, and settled my own fears and questions (through books / lawyer visits / research) I have become much more calm about the matter.  It's a business to me now.  The questions are about how to keep it open, or close the business.  I have noticed too that my wife tends to mirror emotions and feelings - and therefore outward behavior.  As I get rid of my own "butterflies" I have gotten away with saying very serious and shocking (and honest) things to her about the dismal status of our marriage and my feelings towards it.  I was amazed how well she took it.  However, I do believe that in typical BPD fashion she might not have heard or translated what I was saying. But, I was calm, and she was calm.

I hope this idea helps. I also hope that you can learn all you can and prepare all you can.  As they say, "you can't un-say divorce."  So, make sure you are clear headed and steady, and prepared, for your own life ahead.

[MovingOn23]

Hi Happy2017, I wish you the best of all possible outcomes.

In November, my BPDw of 24 years and I separated. She was the one who brought it up, but I was already thinking it. She moved out to her own apartment just after Christmas. I thought we were very clear with each other that we were not separating with hopes of reconciliation, but after New Years, she explained that she wanted to try and work on things. We are now just over 2 months into counseling (both individually and as a couple) and have now recycled once (twice if you count the initial separation). At this moment I am not hopeful that we can create a marriage that will work for me - the past few months have been a real roller coaster of indecision for me.

I was initially very concerned that she may wipe out bank accounts, etc. - but that didn't happen and still hasn't. She hasn't destroyed any property either - but that's just our story and I realize that every situation is different.

I guess the one piece of advice I'd give you is to make sure to familiarize yourself with the divorce laws of your state (because they vary greatly from state to state) and factor that in to your plan. IMO you don't want to do anything that would hurt whatever legal case you want to be able to support in an eventual divorce.