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Author Topic: Understanding lies  (Read 400 times)
redriver

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« on: March 21, 2017, 10:14:24 AM »

Lies,

How have people on here figured out the lies that your exBPD would tell?
In my case I did not see any red flags or lies when we were together; there was one day that I noticed something very odd. She said she was at work that day, but I could see the snow still on her car’s windshield had not been taken off, so I know her car had not moved all day. When I asked about that, she told me a work friend came and picked her up. I did not buy that because that person lived in the other end of town, it just did not add up. She then got angry at me, that I was accusing her and her Ex was like that, and so on.
After the relationship break down I could see lots of new lies. Some that was little white lies and some that were far larger. From that point on, I have started to double check anything she says against what I know for fact. I won’t get into details on that but I have found a few ways to be able to do this. I keep a list of what I know are untrue, the list has 32 lies on it. Some are very big lies, and some are lies for no reason. Thinking back now I can only imagine how many there really are during our whole time together. I have always understood a person that lies out of need, when you feel your back is to the wall, but I can’t understand the person that lies when there is NO reason at all.
I’d like to get people feedback on their experiences. Mine was a undiagnosed but shows many traits of the waif BPD.
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UnforgivenII
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2017, 12:00:16 PM »

This is the link to my recent topic "Lies"...

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=307417.0

I copy and paste from it:

The relationship with his ex A. ended in 2011.
Then, it was 2015, all of a sudden.
The relationship with his ex C. ended last March. Then, last August. Then... .December.
His job at the glass factory ended in 2013.
Then, it ended in 2015.

Unluckily I am a teacher and one of my best asset is my memory... .what a curse.

Then, the texts : "It is just an update from the provider." "Oh these updates! What a nuisance!"

The biggest lies:
I love you
I never cheated on you.
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roberto516
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2017, 06:59:05 PM »

I too wonder how many times I was actually lied to. Right at the end I saw her and her father compose this elaborate lie because they didn't want her mom/his wife to know they were out partying while she stayed home. I was there and saw how effortless it was for her. There was certainly a lot of traingulation and family roles going on as well. It really made me wonder at the end if there was stuff that I had been lied to about the whole time. It does make you think.
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“Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth.”
vortex of confusion
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2017, 08:30:36 PM »

I was thinking about that the other day. I know the lies that I caught him in and could verify. How many other lies were there that I didn't know about?

It is bizarre that in the beginning of our marriage, he would lie about his porn use. He had no reason to lie about it. I told him that I would look at it with him. I wasn't trying to be a prude about it. I just didn't like that he would look at it, take care of himself, lie about it, and then not be available to be intimate with me. It became this ridiculous thing where he would tell me he wasn't doing it and would clear the history on the computer. I would go in and find the hidden temporary files and look at what kinds of cookies, etc. and I would bust him on it. At some point, I stopped finding traces of it on our home computers. I relaxed and didn't think much about until. . .until I got a call from him that he had lost his job. Apparently, he wasn't lying when he said he wasn't looking at it on our computers because he wasn't. He was looking at it on the computers at work and got caught.

A lot of the times, I could tell when he was lying because of how he would act. That would send me on a fact finding mission to verify whether or not he was being truthful. Yes, I got into his email and looked at his phone and did a lot of stuff that was pure crazy. He kept telling me stuff and acting in ways that were just wrong and messed up and sent up huge red flags. He would get pretty cagey at times.

There was one time when he called me a b***h to my face. When I called him on it and refused to let it go, he insisted that I was wrong and that he didn't say it. Talk about making me feel completely and utterly crazy. He sat there and lied and said he didn't do it. After refusing to let it go and pushing the issue, he finally said, "I didn't realize I actually said it. I just thought it to myself and it must have slipped out." 

Another way that I have caught some of his lies is through looking back at some of the stuff that I wrote at different times. This forum has been great at documenting stuff. When he tells me something didn't happen, I can go back and look at where I discussed it on here. I have some old journals and emails that I can look at too.
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redriver

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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2017, 09:06:05 AM »

We were still living together after we broke up. The next day we were emailing each other about how our familys would see the situation. During that conversation she was telling me that no one is getting lied to, that we were just not right for each other. She said she would not be home when I would be off work, that she was going to have diner with her cousin. I did not think much of that, however when she got home latter that I would have thought. she came right to bed and fell asleep. I do admit I took her phone and started to see what was on it, and she had set up POF and Tinder, that day she was texting some guy, out of town. She was sending nude pics to him, she had only started messaging with him that morning. She drove out "hooked up" with him and came home after. I woke her up in shock and I told her how hurt and disgusted I was. her respone was " we are broken up" " i just get over this fatser than you" Less than a day she was out off and going. Form that point everything that was said  I would not take at face value. I still feel the shock of it, well the whole break up to be honest, and it's been almost a year since it all went down.
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roberto516
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2017, 09:40:44 AM »

During that conversation she was telling me that no one is getting lied to, that we were just not right for each other.

I always loved the phrase "we just aren't right for each other". I mean at the end of the day it's true. But I feel for those with the BPD traits because they will never find someone who is "right". Because for them it means constant care and attention without having to give anything in return. It was the same thing she told me. And I had to scratch my head knowing full well that all relationships take work. I'm sorry your experience was so difficult. I was lucky in that sense at least that I didn't have to experience that.
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“Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth.”
redriver

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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2017, 09:49:30 AM »

There was way more that happened after that, that's not even close to how screwed up things got.
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AustenJ
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2017, 10:30:06 AM »

Redriver-

I feel your pain... .the lying and the cheating went hand-in-hand. Those situations still at times race around in my head... .so destructive!

She would even lie about pubic hair LOL I'm old school and liked her to have some instead of being clean-shaven. She was very accommodating in that respect in the early months, and, of course, I didn't figure this out until we were done, but she would shave it off when she was cheating on me because the millennials she bedded liked the clean look.  When I asked why she shaved  she would say that it got scratchy or that it was hot... .wow... .seemed like a small thing... .but it had big repercussions when I figured it out.

Mine trolled for guys on Tinder too and protected her phone from me like it was the Holy Grail.
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StayStrongNow
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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2017, 07:57:30 PM »

My xwBPDu was convinced she did not lie. I have no other explanation but to state in absolute certainty she either heard voices or had visions. I compare it to that particle known as the neutrino, this particle has been proven to be in this world at one moment under the right conditions and disappears into some other realm.

BPD really believe things happen or don't happen even though in reality it's the opposite. That's what convinced me NC was the only sane way to live for me. I don't have complete NC because we had children together, but I really shut the door. She would drive me nuts with her debating me. It was so bad she denied she drank any alcohol but begged me to bail her out of jail for getting arrested for public intoxication. BTW I told her to call someone else.
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abraxus
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2017, 08:58:20 PM »

I always loved the phrase "we just aren't right for each other". I mean at the end of the day it's true. But I feel for those with the BPD traits because they will never find someone who is "right". Because for them it means constant care and attention without having to give anything in return.

I tend to agree with the first part of this, but less so the latter.

Most people can find someone "right" for them, because most people have a reasonably broad band of what will and won't work for them, and so are fairly flexible. For those with BPD however, that band seems to be a whole lot narrower. Maybe that's why they flit from partner to partner so frequently, in a never ending search for that elusive someone. The initial idealisation, whilst deluded, is perhaps born out of a hopeful optimism, which is then inevitably shattered, and so the devaluation begins.

The second part I disagree with, because in all the successful relationships I've had with BPD girls, it's always been where I've expected, and got a lot in return. In fact mostly they put all the work into the relationship, and wanted to make me happy, and seemed to be fairly content with whatever care and attention they felt they'd earned. I actually had to do very little really, as it seemed the less I did, the more they did, and the more attention I showed them the more complacent they got.

I honestly think they felt happier, more secure, and more settled, when they felt they had a sense of purpose and something to strive for. I noticed that in my last relationship, where I was pretty much getting things my own way at the beginning, but the minute I let my guard down, the power struggles began. As soon as I toughened up again, and put my foot down,  things always got back to normal. I think they get a bit lost and confused when you're too nice or too lenient, and that the acting up is less about wanting to get what they want, and more about trying to goad you into enforcing boundaries, so they know where they stand and can feel comfortable again.

It's interesting to note just how many stories consist of people saying how deeply they cared, and that they did everything to please their partner, and yet she/he was never satisfied, and was either always angry and irritable, or eventually left. It appears to be quite rare to hear from anyone who says they were a bit more aloof and demanding of their BPD partner, and subsequently had problems because of it.

I can't speak for everyone but, in my experiences (that is with women), that narrower band for those with BPD seems mostly to consist of those who are somewhat less tolerant, and more demanding in what they expect of a partner.
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redriver

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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2017, 09:25:15 AM »

I agree with you abraxus,

I recall her always being happy to help me. she loved to reorganize, and to help with any projects I had to do. In fact she was fantstic at it. But what would always happpen would be that she would say organize somthing, then in a few days I would not have kept it in the same order, then she would get upset "all do all these things to make your life easier, and happy. And what for, it's like you don't care". I would feel very bad, and like I was such an ass. And within reason I should, but we get into a hurry, or you go looking for something and it will never stay the same way. That's life.

With your statment of sitting back and letting them do things and keep your foot down, makes lots of sence. But the reason you keep hearing people say that we did everything we could for them. Is a very high amount of us that have been broken by these women are people pleasers. I will run to the end of the world to help someone. But I can't do something for myself to make me happy.
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abraxus
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« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2017, 10:25:44 AM »

I agree with you abraxus,

I recall her always being happy to help me. she loved to reorganize, and to help with any projects I had to do. In fact she was fantstic at it. But what would always happpen would be that she would say organize somthing, then in a few days I would not have kept it in the same order, then she would get upset "all do all these things to make your life easier, and happy. And what for, it's like you don't care". I would feel very bad, and like I was such an ass. And within reason I should, but we get into a hurry, or you go looking for something and it will never stay the same way. That's life.

That's a good observation, and the key I learned is that they do it to be acknowledged and validated, they thrive on praise and the feeling of being wanted/needed. As a consequence you have to show them how much they're appreciated. I used to feel selfish getting her to do things just to please me, but then I realised she wasn't doing it for altruistic reasons, but because it made her happy to do it and get the praise, and so you could find a balance in mutual "selfishness". In fact I've had a number of girlfriends who would pester me for tasks that they could do for me, because they felt fulfilled from it. It's actually pretty cool really, as long you keep up your side of things and make the effort to acknowledge her and tell her you're pleased with her for whatever she's done.

With your statment of sitting back and letting them do things and keep your foot down, makes lots of sence. But the reason you keep hearing people say that we did everything we could for them. Is a very high amount of us that have been broken by these women are people pleasers. I will run to the end of the world to help someone. But I can't do something for myself to make me happy.

And that's why I do they think they have a "type",  who they can have relatively successful relationships with, but that type is someone who's able to be more selfish and demanding, and not so much a people pleaser.

I've tended to find it easier to set the tone in the beginning as then, if you slip, you can treat it as a credible momentary lapse. Once they sense weakness they'll push and prod, slowly at first, but if you cave in your done, and so you have to nip it in the bud immediately. It's not that they're being mean by exploiting any weakness, just that they're just confused by it. They need absolute certainty as to who has the upper hand, and if it's you it's all good, and if it's them then not so much. That's why their behaviour gets worse and worse, rather than just leaving. They often do care about the person they're with, and just keep pushing harder and harder, in order to find the point at which you'll eventually stand up to her and she can feel safe again.

It's even the same with ex's, and even if they were the ones who ended it. I've always stayed friendly, but if they try to act up, in even the smallest way, then sometimes just a stern glance, or a stern tone, is enough to get them to back down. Funnily enough, after a telling off, they'll often get all girly and flirty again, and try to get in your good books. There's nothing contrived in it, it's just an instinctive reaction.

That's not just based on my own experiences, but also conversations I've had with girls about their previous relationships. Nine times out of ten they said they left because the guy was "too nice" and they didn't know how to cope with it.

So, I agree with you, the ones who tend to suffer the worst from such relationships are those who are more pleasers, as it's usually a total mismatch. That's fine with a normal girl, as she'll just leave and never look back, but a BPD girl often has a sense of failure mixed with her fears of abandonment and loss, and so will sometimes hang on in there, and in her own twisted way try to make it work. It's really weird, as sometimes all that nastiness is just a convoluted way to try and get the guy to toughen up and be who she needs him to be, but of course that has the opposite effect with someone who's just not like that, who can often just dig himself into a deeper hole.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, or that it can be justified, only that it is what it is. Their compass is broken, and so doesn't work like yours or mine, but once you know that, you can re-calibrate it somewhat, and get them moving in the right direction.
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