I don't want to move on?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I joined this forum a few months ago, seeking advice for trying to save the relationship with my BPD partner. I will not explain our full backstory again, but here is my original post for some backstory if needed:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=304236.0
Back in January, I had my BPD partner move out of our shared home, after catching him cheating on me with his "ex" wife for the 5th time. He moved back in with his mother and I stayed at our rental. I gave him a number of different expectations that I needed from him before I allowed him to move back in with me, they included officially getting a signed divorce paper, become more adamant with therapy/treatment and apologizing to my friends and family directly for his treatment towards them, and myself.
So for the past 2 (almost 3) months he has been working extremely hard to prove that he can improve himself and his behavior. Not only does he continue to see his own personal psychologist, but we started going to couples therapy once every 2 weeks. Although the divorce papers had not come through yet, he just recently took a trip to my family's house by himself to apologize for his wrongdoings and what his intentions are moving forward. Although I have not allowed him to move back in, him and I would meet out for dinner often or he would come over and visit me a couple times per week. I did allow him to sleepover a few times as well. His behavior was just so convincing... .he would send me photos of where he was and what he was doing everyday just because he wanted me to feel confident in his honesty.
Just a few days ago, we were in a therapy session together, and while talking about the divorce being finalized he told us both that it might not work out easily anymore because she won't sign the papers. I was confused by this, because when I asked him to move out, he told me that he went up and ended things with his "ex" wife AGAIN and they agreed that the divorce should be completed. A few hours after the session I asked him to confess anything that he was hiding, and he admitted that, yet again, he is continuing to see his "ex" wife and his step-son. In his confession, he admitted to sleeping with her once right after I kicked him out of the house in January, then told her that he didn't want to see her any longer afterwards. A few days later he changed his mind and asked for her back, which resulted in him going up for "hi and bye" visits every of couple weeks. In his own words: "the bare minimum." When I asked him why he continues to see her through all of this stuff I'm putting him through to prove that he's finally being honest with me, he told me that he constantly hopes that if he acts more distant towards her and treats her badly that she will finally leave him. He said he doesn't leave her because she never does either.
So here I am, sitting here in limbo. On one side, I am devastated that he still has the same tendencies, and is behaving worse than he ever has before, doing this to me, and to her. On another, I believe that he and I both continue to deal with the situation in the wrong way. I know that I did the right thing by having him move out, but was seeing him and allowing him to stay overnight and reassuring him that I will always be by his side even in separation the wrong decision to make? Should I have prepared myself better for slip up and mistakes that are inevitable with this disorder? I think that, perhaps if we had stayed completely separated for these two months, he would not have fallen back into his destructive pattern.
It has been almost a week now, and I have not seen him. I know if I do see him, just like him, I will fall right back into the same pattern and want to encourage him to be with me. He needs to get better for himself, by himself. But despite being confident in staying away from him... .I still want to wait for him, and I want to see if he actually can start to become the partner he wants to be. Because somewhere and somehow I believe he actually does want to be with me... why else would he jump through these difficult hoops for me and not for her? Or maybe I'm just viewing this relationship with my partner through rose-colored glasses?

[Suki64]

I joined this forum a few months ago, seeking advice for trying to save the relationship with my BPD partner. I will not explain our full backstory again, but here is my original post for some backstory if needed:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=304236.0
Back in January, I had my BPD partner move out of our shared home, after catching him cheating on me with his "ex" wife for the 5th time. He moved back in with his mother and I stayed at our rental. I gave him a number of different expectations that I needed from him before I allowed him to move back in with me, they included officially getting a signed divorce paper, become more adamant with therapy/treatment and apologizing to my friends and family directly for his treatment towards them, and myself.
So for the past 2 (almost 3) months he has been working extremely hard to prove that he can improve himself and his behavior. Not only does he continue to see his own personal psychologist, but we started going to couples therapy once every 2 weeks. Although the divorce papers had not come through yet, he just recently took a trip to my family's house by himself to apologize for his wrongdoings and what his intentions are moving forward. Although I have not allowed him to move back in, him and I would meet out for dinner often or he would come over and visit me a couple times per week. I did allow him to sleepover a few times as well. His behavior was just so convincing... .he would send me photos of where he was and what he was doing everyday just because he wanted me to feel confident in his honesty.
Just a few days ago, we were in a therapy session together, and while talking about the divorce being finalized he told us both that it might not work out easily anymore because she won't sign the papers. I was confused by this, because when I asked him to move out, he told me that he went up and ended things with his "ex" wife AGAIN and they agreed that the divorce should be completed. A few hours after the session I asked him to confess anything that he was hiding, and he admitted that, yet again, he is continuing to see his "ex" wife and his step-son. In his confession, he admitted to sleeping with her once right after I kicked him out of the house in January, then told her that he didn't want to see her any longer afterwards. A few days later he changed his mind and asked for her back, which resulted in him going up for "hi and bye" visits every of couple weeks. In his own words: "the bare minimum." When I asked him why he continues to see her through all of this stuff I'm putting him through to prove that he's finally being honest with me, he told me that he constantly hopes that if he acts more distant towards her and treats her badly that she will finally leave him. He said he doesn't leave her because she never does either.
So here I am, sitting here in limbo. On one side, I am devastated that he still has the same tendencies, and is behaving worse than he ever has before, doing this to me, and to her. On another, I believe that he and I both continue to deal with the situation in the wrong way. I know that I did the right thing by having him move out, but was seeing him and allowing him to stay overnight and reassuring him that I will always be by his side even in separation the wrong decision to make? Should I have prepared myself better for slip up and mistakes that are inevitable with this disorder? I think that, perhaps if we had stayed completely separated for these two months, he would not have fallen back into his destructive pattern.
It has been almost a week now, and I have not seen him. I know if I do see him, just like him, I will fall right back into the same pattern and want to encourage him to be with me. He needs to get better for himself, by himself. But despite being confident in staying away from him... .I still want to wait for him, and I want to see if he actually can start to become the partner he wants to be. Because somewhere and somehow I believe he actually does want to be with me... why else would he jump through these difficult hoops for me and not for her? Or maybe I'm just viewing this relationship with my partner through rose-colored glasses?

[acknowledgement]

Push Pull classic of BPD. Ask yourself how many times do you want to be recycled for he will absolutely fulfill the recycling... .when he needs some attention, validation, feeling to be loved... .he knows you will be there. But then you will be painted black, devalued, silenced, etc... .is this what you want from anyone, any relationship? Try keeping a journal where you list all of the fights, experiences, phone calls, texts, silent treatments, etc. and then read them back... .you will start to see:
If you keep doing the same things the same way you will always get the same results... .in my experience, it is difficult if not impossible for them to change... .the BPD will destroy you, your self, your soul... .IF you let them. They will hang you out to dry, possibly minutes after professing love or intoxicating you with some wonderful words... .they will detach and discard you as though you never mattered. You will never understand it, but do you really want to put up with that? Keep reading that journal over, and trust you will see the pattern that continues to persist... .ask yourself again... .is this how I want my life to be? From experience, after my BPD discarded me, without notice or cause, after 30 plus years of friendship, I can honestly say life is SOO much better without them... .filled with honest, real, loving, dedicated friends... .if I were ever to break NC it would be to thank the BPD for what was once perceived as a cruel detach and discard... .and is now a blessing.

[Suki64]

Push Pull classic of BPD. Ask yourself how many times do you want to be recycled for he will absolutely fulfill the recycling... .

The difficult thing for me is that he does the pushing/pulling with his "ex" wife, not with me. She experiences him saying "I don't know who I want to be with I can't choose." But I experience "I want to be with you and only you, always." He constantly pulls at me, he has never showed disinterest in our relationship to my face. The behavior he shows me 24/7 is that he wants the relationship to work. He has never needed a break or broken up with me, I have always done that to him because I get too overwhelmed. Every time that we split up, it's because I catch his lies. If I weren't continuously suspicious, he would still be here right now living with me in his fantasy world.
Even though he doesn't push me away directly, is constantly deciding to keep seeing her in secret the "push" that he's giving me?

[Suki64]

Try keeping a journal where you list all of the fights, experiences, phone calls, texts, silent treatments, etc. and then read them back... .you will start to see:

Also, thank you for your recommendation. I have always benefitted from keeping up with a journal. This will definitely help put things into better perspective for me.

[acknowledgement]

Put that all in your journal and reread... .lies... I catch him... he says he wants me always... .but does he, as he goes back to her behind your back? How do you know he is not saying the same things to her? Do you want someone who may want someone else? BPDs lie lie and lie, however, sometimes, as they create their own reality and justify every behavior, and blame you for it... .they believe their own distorted reality... .again... .is this who and what you want? Once you keep reading this forum, discovering what need this poor behavior is filling within yourself, you will have clarity and strength to make a healthy decision... .until then, keep journal, be honest in your entries and read them over and over until the lightbulb is so bright for your decisions... .

[Suki64]

How do you know he is not saying the same things to her? Do you want someone who may want someone else?

I suppose I'm just caught up in what I want the truth to be, because I'm still hoping that I'm the one that he truly wants, and I wish that someday he can prove it to me somehow and we can figure out a way to have a healthy relationship again... .

So as of right now, I am only in contact with my exBPD every couple days for financial/professional purposes only, and I have not been in contact with his "ex" wife in over 9 months. However, in two weeks we have a two hour meeting scheduled with all three of us present at his psychologist's office, with the psychologist as a mediator. I am looking forward to this because I will finally be able to hear and speak about this situation directly, without him being able to control the situation. Keeping us separate was his entire focus, and I believe this will benefit all three of us. I know I might end up leaving with more questions than answers, but I'm hoping to find some closure, and maybe it will help me get closer to a healthy decision... .

Has anyone here tried to have group meetings that include a BPD to resolve/sort out conflict?

[acknowledgement]

with my BPD situation, and many others, they do not choose counseling... .I with you strength and courage with the session... .will certainly be a great opportunity to hear their reality vs. the true experience, and perhaps another opportunity to journal and reiterate what was said in the session so there is clarity towards your decision. For me, in any relationship, although there is compromise, there should never be put downs, devaluing, lies, secrets, manipulations, silent treatments... .emotional abuse.

[allienoah]

with my BPD situation, and many others, they do not choose counseling... .I with you strength and courage with the session... .will certainly be a great opportunity to hear their reality vs. the true experience, and perhaps another opportunity to journal and reiterate what was said in the session so there is clarity towards your decision. For me, in any relationship, although there is compromise, there should never be put downs, devaluing, lies, secrets, manipulations, silent treatments... .emotional abuse.

An opportunity to hear my bf's reality vs the true experience. This is going to be an eye-opener for me when he has to actually verbalize his reality /feelings/facts as opposed to what is truly going on. I already have a good idea what his reality is, I'm not committed enough, if someone close to me doesn't like my r/s with him I should discard them, I don't think of him enough, I don't make him a priority -blah blah blah.

We start therapy tonight and I am in a quandary, don't know how much to push/reveal/without putting myself in a JADE-ing position. I love him very much, but again, the other side of him is HORRIBLE.  I think this is a last ditch effort. We had gone NC for a few days, but I caved when I heard him crying.

[Suki64]

For me, in any relationship, although there is compromise, there should never be put downs, devaluing, lies, secrets, manipulations, silent treatments... .emotional abuse.

Before I started this relationship with my partner, I was completely intolerant to many of these behaviors as well. This really shows what someone can put up with when they're in love with someone... .

[Suki64]

We start therapy tonight and I am in a quandary, don't know how much to push/reveal/without putting myself in a JADE-ing position. I love him very much, but again, the other side of him is HORRIBLE.  I think this is a last ditch effort. We had gone NC for a few days, but I caved when I heard him crying.

It sounds like you are struggling with some pretty difficult things right now... .have you posted your own personal topic to seek advice from others?

[whitebackatcha]

I think you're right in choosing to stay away from him, and in knowing that he needs to be doing this for himself for it to actually work. What do you think would need to happen for you to feel he has done this for himself? What would that look like?

We all have our own paths to walk, even though there may be some similarities between them. If you want to wait, that is your right to do so. Make the boundaries you know you can keep. If you need to make more in the future, you will be more likely to have the strength to do so. If the best you can do right now is go LC, then do that. You can respect yourself, and still let yourself love him. That's the best some of us can do, and I think that's okay. Just be honest with yourself about what is going on. It sounds like you are trying to do this, and that is excellent.

[allienoah]

It sounds like you are struggling with some pretty difficult things right now... .have you posted your own personal topic to seek advice from others?

Yes I actually have posted several times. This forum has been such a blessing. I truly am so conflicted and going through such turmoil. It has helped tremendously that everyone here understands. It makes me feel like I am not going crazy (although sometimes I am so confused, it sounds like I am!).
You were completely right when you said that we don't put up with these terrible behaviors normally-then we fall in love... .