"Stop validating me"

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So, I've been working on validation and detachment, and evidently doing pretty okay at it because my uBPDh is complaining about those things. He doesn't like talking to me about his feelings because they stay his feelings. This morning, he wanted to talk about our 'issues' so that the 'ball will move forward to reconciliation'. I was a bit clueless as to what he wanted to talk about.

So, he said he feels hurt because I am judging, criticizing, and have a 'holier than thou' attitude. I said that was unfair for him to tell me what I thought and my attitudes and it needed to stop or I needed to leave the conversation. He stopped it for the most part. I asked if there was anything specifically that I have done or said that has hurt. He said no, he just feels these things. (so, obviously I must be doing them... .) So, I reflected back that he was feeling hurt and frustrated and stuck with things not moving forward, a lot of us feel that way when things are not going the way we had hoped they would. That's when he said, "stop validating me! I'm just trying to authentic and I want you to be too." I said, "I'm just using good listening skills and trying to hear you." He said, "you just sit over there all detached - you're just stonewalling me."

Then I asked, "so help me to understand what reconciliation looks like to you." He said, "it looks like you apologizing for judging, criticizing and your holier than thou attitude and repenting from those." "And you just deny they are really what you think... ."  I said, "Okay, ... .  I'm not sure how I can repent from something that I don't have... ." 

The good part is that he started to get flooded emotionally and told me that he was being flooded and needed a break. I said okay and just sat while he regained his composure (that takes 20-30 minutes). Then he said this is why he thinks we need marriage counseling; I said there isn't really a marriage issue here. He said he is frustrated that he keeps getting flooded a lot and it takes so much time to get back to work and he has a lot of work to do. I said it is really hard when emotions get in the way like that; I feel like that sometimes, too. He said he feels like he is missing something in our interactions and wants an independent observer to give feedback on what might be going on. And that individual counselors can't talk to both people - I said they can with the proper releases. But, he said we can't afford counseling because he doesn't have health insurance anymore. (because he chose not to find a job with health insurance before quitting his last one - I didn't say that, he knows what he did)

So, basically, he hates the detachment and 'validation,' and he wants me to take responsibility for his feelings. Oh, and he described himself as a dog that has been cornered and is biting, and he wants me to pet him.


Clearly, my detachment is not going to be an okay long-term state for him, and my boundaries are not seen as good things either - they keep getting brought up as 'problems' and 'issues' that he has. He knows that his emotions get in the way of him being 'successful', but he can't figure out a middle between emotional and stoic.

I think the 'tools' are not helping him at this point; they seem to be examples of 'worse' in his mind. They do help me to have some emotional space and clarity about what is going on.

[empath]

So, I've been working on validation and detachment, and evidently doing pretty okay at it because my uBPDh is complaining about those things. He doesn't like talking to me about his feelings because they stay his feelings. This morning, he wanted to talk about our 'issues' so that the 'ball will move forward to reconciliation'. I was a bit clueless as to what he wanted to talk about.

So, he said he feels hurt because I am judging, criticizing, and have a 'holier than thou' attitude. I said that was unfair for him to tell me what I thought and my attitudes and it needed to stop or I needed to leave the conversation. He stopped it for the most part. I asked if there was anything specifically that I have done or said that has hurt. He said no, he just feels these things. (so, obviously I must be doing them... .) So, I reflected back that he was feeling hurt and frustrated and stuck with things not moving forward, a lot of us feel that way when things are not going the way we had hoped they would. That's when he said, "stop validating me! I'm just trying to authentic and I want you to be too." I said, "I'm just using good listening skills and trying to hear you." He said, "you just sit over there all detached - you're just stonewalling me."

Then I asked, "so help me to understand what reconciliation looks like to you." He said, "it looks like you apologizing for judging, criticizing and your holier than thou attitude and repenting from those." "And you just deny they are really what you think... ."  I said, "Okay, ... .  I'm not sure how I can repent from something that I don't have... ." 

The good part is that he started to get flooded emotionally and told me that he was being flooded and needed a break. I said okay and just sat while he regained his composure (that takes 20-30 minutes). Then he said this is why he thinks we need marriage counseling; I said there isn't really a marriage issue here. He said he is frustrated that he keeps getting flooded a lot and it takes so much time to get back to work and he has a lot of work to do. I said it is really hard when emotions get in the way like that; I feel like that sometimes, too. He said he feels like he is missing something in our interactions and wants an independent observer to give feedback on what might be going on. And that individual counselors can't talk to both people - I said they can with the proper releases. But, he said we can't afford counseling because he doesn't have health insurance anymore. (because he chose not to find a job with health insurance before quitting his last one - I didn't say that, he knows what he did)

So, basically, he hates the detachment and 'validation,' and he wants me to take responsibility for his feelings. Oh, and he described himself as a dog that has been cornered and is biting, and he wants me to pet him.


Clearly, my detachment is not going to be an okay long-term state for him, and my boundaries are not seen as good things either - they keep getting brought up as 'problems' and 'issues' that he has. He knows that his emotions get in the way of him being 'successful', but he can't figure out a middle between emotional and stoic.

I think the 'tools' are not helping him at this point; they seem to be examples of 'worse' in his mind. They do help me to have some emotional space and clarity about what is going on.

[formflier]

Great post... .!   

This is the kind of thing that my wife will try and try ... .to get me to beg forgiveness for things that I don't think and feel.

It has gotten better! 

Clearly, my detachment is not going to be an okay long-term state for him, and my boundaries are not seen as good things either - they keep getting brought up as 'problems' and 'issues' that he has.

I was doing the "endzone dance" up until I read this! 

What is the difference in what you wrote and...

"Clearly, my detachment and validation is going to be tough for him to adjust to."

This isn't about him... .this is about you living a healthy life and allowing him the space to sort himself out. 

Again... great post.  I used to do this alot.

FF
"

[formflier]

  a 'holier than thou' attitude. 

I found it effective to have 3-4 different ways to "point out" my own thoughts.

I wanted several because I didn't want to be a broken record.

My favorite... .

"Would you like me to share my attitude with you... .?"

"Would you like me to share my thoughts with you... .?"

The funniest one was when she twisted up and said... ."No... ."  I said... "Ok... .I'm going to go grab some water... .would you like some... ?"  She didn't answer... .I think I left her a glass and went about my business...

She was pissed or very emotional... .  I made no attempt to solve or do anything else... .once she said she didn't want to hear... .I was gone.

 

FF

[empath]

What is the difference in what you wrote and...

"Clearly, my detachment and validation is going to be tough for him to adjust to."

Primarily the difference is that he rejects my detachment as a proper state in marriage. This is the 'problem' in our marriage in his mind and a trigger for him.

As much as I can, I am living my life and pursuing health and wholeness, and I'm at a place where I need to do some additional things but am limited due to the situation at home. In the meantime, he feels worse and has chosen financial instability (increasing the stress level for all of our family due to quitting his job). Our older daughter is now planning to move out; the younger one has some aftereffects of trauma from my husband - arguments trigger her.

I have been detached for a couple of years now and hoped that he would be able to sort it out for himself. He has had counseling (but can't do that right now due to the loss of health insurance and financial constraints) and continues with some other support people. It has gotten worse rather than better, at least for him and in some ways, his getting worse brings the rest of the family with it. I just don't want it to get any worse for the rest of us; we need better.

I found it effective to have 3-4 different ways to "point out" my own thoughts.

His point was about his feeling of frustration, and I did share with him my thoughts about the situation. He didn't agree with my thoughts, and I said 'well, we just have a difference of opinion.' He did stop the "I know what you're thinking" once I said that was unfair and that he had a choice of whether to continue or not. (he didn't want me to leave  I was willing to do either one) That seemed to be pretty effective at stopping it without JADEing.

[Fie]

Hello Empath,

I totally agree with FF : this is about you, not about your husband.
You have self worth ! You should not go along with craziness, circular arguments, etc, just so he'd be calm down.
You choose to be healthy, please stick to it. It's also a wonderful example for your children.
How your husband reacts to it is his business and should (theoretically, I know) not affect you.

Did you hear about extinction bursts and intermittent reinforcement ?

xx

[empath]

Did you hear about extinction bursts and intermittent reinforcement ?

Yes, to both. Funny, I heard about intermittent reinforcement a long time before learning about BPD and how it keeps people hooked into something. Extinction bursts were newer.