And I'll get flagged for this but...

[Helplessly]

I hope everyone is well.

I've gotten some responses regarding resenting, disliking, or even hating these monsters we let into our lives. Most people are inquiring as to how to get to that step in the process. But MANY believe it's a state of denial and one person thinks that in my case, I'm caught in perpetuity instead of moving on. Well fuc* that noise... .

I do believe that once we acknowledge our own emotional retardation, and move towards the reasons we are filling the narcissistic well with the approval of these  soulless monsters, we need to treat the situation, we need to understand that we are at war.  With them, and most importantly, the moron child inside of us. Head vs. heart.

And it's a war we must win at all costs.

And I'll get flagged for this... .but being a bit of a prick is not the worst thing in the world.  It's been over a week since I set the bridge aflame with a scathing email to my ex creature-thing.  And I feel great about it. It was full of all of the things I never had the courage to say because my infant brain didn't want to get put in the corner and abandoned. There was no "you hurt me" crap. No "what goes around comes around."  It was the DEVALUATION that we all sorely need to apply in order to stop IDEALIZING these attention seeking sociopathic vampires.  Did it strike a chord with her?  Maybe not. But I probed the dark insecurities and fears that she revealed throughout the relationship.  The insecurities that I tried so hard to help her overcome with a futile outpouring of love and codependence. I'll never know because I blocked her ass from any and all avenues of communication. 

Cruel?  I don't really care.

You're at war. You must survive. You must destroy your enemy. That enemy might be in your head. But the wretched wolf thing that you invested your heart and soul in is a soldier for the enemy. If they put themselves in your sights, fire away until they are a bloody mist in your scope.

Look, telling them to eat sh*t and eliminating them from your life 100% can only benefit you. It's a nice little slap in the face to these wretched bottom feeding user parasitic worms.

DISCLAIMER:  Depictions of war in the above message are purely allegorical. I'm not advocating violence or even engaging over and over with your ex. If you decide to strike, make it the last time you speak with them. You have the key to your cage.

[once removed]

our relationships are over. all is quiet on the western front 

that doesnt mean our hurt is over, but it means that this is about us now, not the sociopathic etc vampire.

It was the DEVALUATION that we all sorely need to apply in order to stop IDEALIZING these attention seeking sociopathic vampires.

splitting (idealization or devaluation) is often a defense mechanism against rejection.

lets face it: we bought into the idealization. the loss of it wounded us, left us feeling rejected at the core. is the key to our healing to go to the other extreme? are extremes generally helpful to healing?

we want to be more emotionally mature in the aftermath of these breakups than we were during the relationship, which is a tall order. it is somewhat natural to want to reverse a perceived rejection. your path so far is to "burn the bridge" and paint her black. its probably going to feel better in the short term, in my experience anger did feel better than depression; i also privately wrote similar things about my ex, and i have no regrets. at a certain point, i was stuck there. if you continue down this path, youre likely to be as well. why? because the whole monster thing will stop ringing true, and you can repeat it, and say it louder, but all it will be is words. if it were true, you would not be struggling in this fashion.

And I'll get flagged for this... .but being a bit of a prick is not the worst thing in the world

are you trying to get our attention  . you dont need to double down on the loaded language or controversy to do that. we can help you break this down, and get to that last stage of Detachment, Freedom. we are listening.

[chillamom]

Sitting here now in a hospital bed hooked up to monitors, stuff dripping into my veins to slow my racing heart, scans and pokes and prods and feeling so weak I can't even make it to the bathroom on my own. My cardiac condition is absolutely triggered by stress

This is absolutely a war for my life. No more. I will not let him win at the price of my health and my family. 

[Helplessly]

There is some pot stirring going on for certain. I like to hear others opinions.

Every case is different. Sometimes a break up is just a break up. Many of us have cordial relationships with other exes. Sometimes things don't work out with someone and hearts break but there is no call for anger or hatred.

Defense mechanisms?  You betcha.

I sort of stole the "at war" concept from someone.  As far as the war being over and all is quiet on the front; I don't see that from many others here. Others who are self blaming and ruminating like I did and am still prone to doing.

When a human being, PD or not, is capable of hurting, often intentionally another human being, the way I witnessed... .especially when the person being hurt is at their lowest,  I say call them out. I'm not saying lash out over rejection. That's a part of life.

I'm also not suggesting we carry this around forever. I'm saying take the steps to kill the person off in your head.

The name calling and labeling? I've read many stories here that are more horrifying than mine. But speaking from personal experience, if the labeling and smearing on an anonymous forum doesn't apply, then we are not talking about the same type of people. They KNOW WHAT THEYRE DOING.

this strategy doesn't work for everyone. But any horse dung about forgiveness doesn't work for me.  

The only person I need to forgive is myself for putting myself and my family through this experience with a GUTTER RAT!

Sorry, had to throw that in. Thanks for the response.  You're points are valid.

[Helplessly]

WHAT CHILLAMOM SAID!  

FIGHT IT!  Win!  Live!  SCREW THAT PERVERT

[once removed]

There is some pot stirring going on for certain. I like to hear others opinions.

Every case is different.

youre right. every case is different: our partners, in terms of how high or low they are on the spectrum, us, in terms of the wounds we struggle with and our responses to adversity, and our relationship stories.

its really important to make the most of your recovery. hearing others opinions can certainly inform that. im not sure that posting from a teaching perspective, in a state of obvious anger (and some of the distortions its associated with) and fanning its flames is going to achieve that. its just a bunch of people standing around yelling "_____ them" (which you may find actually increases depression, feelings of victimization, and isolation.) try asking thoughtful questions about concepts and feelings you struggle with, and how, where and why you struggled in your relationship. weve walked that path and we can help. 

I'm also not suggesting we carry this around forever. I'm saying take the steps to kill the person off in your head.

one alternative is to take a balanced approach to detaching (killing a person off in your head is not that. accepting and coming to terms that the relationship is over and grieving the loss is). there are lots of ways to achieve this. we outline them in the steps to detaching, the tools, and the lessons. there are other ways.

this strategy doesn't work for everyone. But any horse dung about forgiveness doesn't work for me. 

Helplessly, five weeks ago or so you were feeling suicidal. you have swung the other way to black and white anger. i probably wouldnt push a message of forgiveness on a person struggling with those concepts at such an early stage. i wouldnt have been any more open to it than you are.

i hear you. youre angry, there may be intermingling depression. youre seeing a therapist and that will help.  i encourage you also to have a read about the forms of twisted thinking associated with depression, and tell us more about where you feel you are with them: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56199.0

[Insom]

FWIW, anger, for me, was an important part of the detaching process.  It helped me understand where my boundaries were, how they'd been violated, and seemed to help produce the physical energy I needed to make a big life change.  Over time, I've come to view anger as an emotional rumble strip, a very loud signal that I've veered off course, that something isn't right, or that someone is pushing my boundaries in an uncomfortable way.

I don't see it as an end destination, but a powerful indicator of where I am on the road. 

[Skip]

There is some pot stirring going on for certain. I like to hear others opinions.

Many people feel anger early in the pathway on healing a broken heart - all different types of anger. When its natural and genuine - if is a release and we release it, and move on to a more realistic assessment of what happened and we get in touch with the real feeling hiding behind the anger. In a way, its like road rage - we feel endangered and it evokes strong emotion.

This is very different from those who tell others to be more angry. The motivation there is typically denial and blame shifting - dysfunctional coping. The inherent logic is that if I can get others to declare the we were innocent victims with no control over the situations preyed on us by monsters - we have no culpability.

Why is no culpability important to some?

Well they can say to themselves is, I did nothing to cause this love of mine to leave me.  I didn't blow it. I was cheated. She's (he's) a _________ (<---use high school terminology here).

They can also say, all that bad behavior on my part was not my fault - someone more powerful, more deviate, made me do it.

Lastly, it can be said, if I destroy this persons memory, my pain will stop.

Problem is, this doesn't work. I've watch thousands come through the doors and those that lead the bashing calls and 100% blaming and those that don't heal. They either repeat, go into chronic depression, or the jump into another relationship and when that breaks, they have a 2x meltdown - a double grieving if you will.

And its also the mentality that can lead to breakup abuse, injury, death cases.  Did you ever think about what was on the minds of those domestic suicide, homicides.

That's my opinion. 

[Helplessly]

  Skip

Well stated opinion indeed. I'm not trying to incite anger. I'll stand by my point. I made it clear this has nothing to do with violence and I don't even think you need to engage the other person to accomplish this.

I wasn't clear enough.

No culpability?  If we DON'T acknowledge responsibility, we have no place pointing fingers. I won't speak for anyone else but me; I invited this into my life. No respect for myself in the situation. To some degree alienated loved ones out of shame.  If this was about blame then I would accept 100%.

It's just a philosophical difference of opinion.  Look at what some of us are going through here. What are we talking about anyway? Nasty little breakups? Spats?  Simple rejection?  Or sociopaths?  Look at the response a couple notches up. Physically ill.  

Are these disordered people are just wounded little children with sore little hearts that need to be handled like china?  Or are they grown damned adults that prey upon others fears of rejection, denial, acceptance, for their own means.

Why do we need compassion toward these people?  They will hurt again.

I don't like her very much. After all, she's a reflection of me.

[roberto516]

Well helplessly I'm glad I wasn't the only one so send scathing letters and messages. I did it one too many times. And it did feel good for a day or two. Then, because I still loved her after all she did, I felt so bad about myself for what I said to her.

I battled this for so long... .so long. But I can't hate her. I hurt myself. All the times I knew I should have left but didnt.

I was angry at myself. Angry that I "fell for it". Angry that I didn't walk away. Angry I didn't see the red flags. The projection was easier for me than the introspection.

Honestly? Would I kinda feel validated if I found out some hardship befell her? Probably. But I know it won't change anything about my life now.

On the worst days I think about our relationship and give her an emotional salute which says "well played. You got what you could from me and then out you went." On the other days I spend it focusing on me. And believe me, I wanted to slap everyone here when they'd tell me "what are you gonna do for yourself? What about your response etc etc?"

Just rambling a bit. But I knw where you're at. I've been there for far too long. Too long to the point I chastized, shamed, and verbally abused an adult who deep down is a scared confused child who only wants love... .just like i am. But it made me feel worse about myself than I ever have before.

[Octy]

Excellent post. I can bounce from anger and back but try to avoid the belief of malice on either of our parts. Without an outlet like on here or to someone who can let me still go on,  I'd still be tense and triggered daily.
 Sometimes the questions can urk when you just want to spit hot fire but,
Helplessly, you came in hot, and have stayed hot, yet kept your composer.


 

   

Are these disordered people are just wounded little children with sore little hearts that need to be handled like china?  Or are they grown damned adults that prey upon others fears of rejection, denial, acceptance, for their own means.

Why do we need compassion toward these people?  They will hurt again.

I don't like her very much. After all, she's a reflection of me.

The child mentality aspect is something I hold onto in my case. My ex was young, but is that not where we all got mostly screwed up the most? In my case it may be passive aggression spilling over that brings back the anger.  I took a zen approach before, then was willing to overlook what I thought I would never put up with.  I remember myself as someone who didn't take no ish prior to this r/s and would walk away when need be. She liked my strength until I saw the real her. Then she knew how to put on the suductress. Deplorable learned manipulative behavior.
 I'm stubborn and have difficulty being told what to do to possibly "fix" me. Especially when I'm well prepared in the field of battle(we all seem to learn as much as possible about BPD).
Focusing solely on myself eventually I hope will be when the bouncing around from the stages of detachment ends and I can see the forest through the trees.
 At the moment I still hope her current marriage fails and I know that's not the advice I would ever give any one else. "Get over it" drives me through the roof though.

[Mutt]

Why do we need compassion toward these people?  They will hurt again.

I'll start with your second point first,we don't know that about pwBPD, it's painting everyone with the same brush, some people with BPD recover, some traits get less intense when the person ages.

Helplessly we're talking about someone's grandparent, parent, sibling, spouse, child, family, some people love their pwBPD unconditionally. My ex is my kids's mom, they're young, she's their mother to them, they can't understand the disorder, that bond gets create when they're very young.

Can you separate your experience and feelings from other people's experiences with a pwBPD?

[SurvivingBPDex]

I really enjoyed your post. I can tell there is a lot of anger but I applaud you for sharing. I don't feel alone in my weird crazy split.

[panhead67]

hi,
thank you guys to everyone that shared here.
I benefited from everything I read here today. To me it was a message of finding strength, in the process of being broken by an unhealthy bond... I struggle each day to find a balance between rage, anger, depression and longing.railing against the loss, hopelessness of it. That's jus the place I'm at. Thanks to the readings, I can at least identify whats going on at the moment.
Finding and embracing our true selves, and healing will be different for all of us. yet, much the same. I'm not too crazy about the learning to sit with this pain, just as it is.
I'm hoping if I hang out here long enough I can catch on... ."freedom" as mentioned in the steps to the right, of detaching, seems like a unicorn that poops rainbows. but would be such a relief, if ever attained.

[Idsrvt2]

I can't send a scathing email as some texts I sent and me contacting his mom about his suicidal threat got me a protection order... .actually a nice text got me the order ... I told him he needed to get help before he harmed someone ... but before that I did let him have it in quite a few texts

It's didn't help... I regret it all... .in court he wanted the order dropped I was so angry if I could have jumped out a window I felt like I could have that last court date ... .so I stood my ground against him ... so that he could see that he can't just get false orders out on people that have reacted to him.   

I was angry for so long ... my Mail was cutoff ... this week something odd happened that showed me the people I thought he painted me black to I don't think he did his boss came to my house to get my mail... so if I was so evil, would he do such a thing... no he would not.
My x looks like he belongs in a mental ward ... I guess I'm sort of fortunate and I can see him daily ...
Do I forget what he did to me no way... .am I happy I survived the last four months of torture... yes I am.
So for me sending a nasty msg got me nothing but my life nearly ruined.
What I have learned is my role in this... my boundaries, my reacting by sending nasty texts ... my part in it because it was not healthy.  I'm healthier now ... he could not do what he did to me before and he knows that.
He walks with his head down like a coward .

I totally get where u are coming from... I almost broke the protection order many times to just yell and scream out my window at him... .  I am mad for four years he acted semi normal and hid who he was ... I'm mad about a lot.

Just sharing to give you some perspective... I'm not judging as I've been where you are

[Helplessly]

  Idsrvt2

I appreciate your perspective.  In my case I didn't send anything threatening or harassing. I made it clear that it was the last communication we would ever have. I just showed her a mirror. It wasn't difficult. It was accurate.  In this case my friends and family were mortified when they found out I was still with her. I never painted her black to anyone and I still don't, other than this anonymous forum. But her behavior and actions put everyone on edge and emotionally exhausted. Foul mouthed. Insulting. Ignored boundaries. When I rattled off my observations to her I ran out of room. ONCE AGAIN I made it clear to her that I share responsibility for the relationship not working. I chose to be there and participate.

I guess I'm being less than clear. I would never recommend just throwing insults out. I'd feel like shi* after something like that I think.

People often look for "closure". I'm saying make your own closure.

[Helplessly]

  Mutt

Yes Mutt (first time I've ever typed "yes mutt", I can differentiate. Didn't I say that it's different for everyone?

I'll tell you what though, if I saw these behaviors in a family member.  Hurting people. And that family member was undiagnosed and refused to get help, I'd call them out. It benefits nobody to enable.  

I did this with my own mom.

[Idsrvt2]

I understand, my last msg was not threatening or harassing either, it came after things had settled after he finally wrote me back saying he was getting a restraining order and he still feels for me and sorry that I hurt.  I thought he was bluffing as I didn't know he may have BPD... .so I said fine I will get one as well... .that nite multiple texts came  in and calls about going in peace
My family said to ignore him, so I did and I waited and the next day wrote a very nice msg as he had asked what he could do or should do,  in it I asked him to get help, as he was not acting like he usually does and I'm not sure what he was capable with and isn't know why I was dumped and he sees everything I type as mean and not all is meant as such.  It was one of the nicest msgs I have written anyone... ,I now know someone with BPD it's best never to put anything in writing and I should have just called him on the phone. .
It's like my x had this planned from the start l so perhaps yours is different ... mine knew  what buttons to press to dump me via phone as he couldn't handle any conflict, he knew that got me to text him I was hurt and upset and the more I texted asking why the more I was ignored .   he even said he didn't want to hurt me but I wouldn't let him go... as if it was all me ... my fault .   Sometimes I wish I could reach out to him and say or ask why he did what he did and why we couldn't just go in peace.
They are just unpredictable
Today I'm waking up feeling more hate thus why I came back to this post ... .I could easily say something to him today as I do have outgoing mail... I can't risk it.  

[Meili]

I took the position that it is not my place to judge others. I am no better or no worse than another person. If I don't like a person's actions or how they treat me, I don't have them in my life anymore. If another wants and allows such things in his or her life, if he or she is an adult, that's their choice and none of my business.

These thoughts helped me to release the anger I felt. I was then free to look at myself. As Helplessly said, the anger was actually about myself and why I allowed those things in my world. I could no longer be angry with my x as a result. She was just doing her thing. I was responsible for protecting myself. I failed in that regard. I can't blame her for that.

What I'm confused about, Helplessly, is that you say that you're angry at yourself, you say that you accept 100% of the responsibility for your choices, but then turn around a project the anger outward. How does that work in your mind? Can you please explain that to us?

[Helplessly]

  Idsrvt2

You're right. It's probably not a good idea. I'm a little bit more indifferent. I mean I don't care how she's doing either way. Part of the issue is that above and beyond any BPD or HPD or anything (I'm not a psychologist), there was a rotten side to her. This rotten thing emerged. So I'm just saying she was a complete jerk. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. In the end I didn't take it lying down.

To the above poster somewhere, yes I was suicidal 5 weeks ago.  I never knew depression until then. Part of MY process was crawling out of the self pity hole and seeing the mess I made in my life. I snapped out of it. Am I still depressed?  I'm sure.  But it's different now.  I'm turning the corner.  I made excuses for her. She had a horrible upbringing. Blah blah... . she's just lashing out when she says I'm a disgusting ugly piece of garbage. Because an hour later she couldn't live without me.

Done. Monstrous. Really. Deserves whatever pain she brings upon herself.

[Helplessly]

Melli I was ripe for a narcissistic supply.  You know the story. She never loved anyone as much as me... . red flags. I was warned. I walked in knowing something was off. So I put that all on me.  

But as two human beings interacting... . I mean I've never been spoken to like that. Physically assaulted. I apologized to her for making her treat me that way. I never understood domestic violence from the inside. So I let her have it.

Now it's about me and the relationships in my life I need to nurture

[Meili]

I truly understand the anger. It's part of the healing process. We have all been angry about the situations that brought us here. It's normal and natural. But, you know all of that.

You are showing that you have a deeper understanding at this point. I am truly impressed by the introspection. I remember when I was going through the worst part of my relationship - the six month breakup - I all but refused to acknowledge that it was my own choices that brought me to and kept me in my situation, so, yeah, your understanding your part puts you ahead of where I was then.

But, my confusion comes from your seeming to understand while still lashing out on this board. I read a lot of anger in your posts. Again, the anger is understandable when we don't understand what happened, how, and why. But, that doesn't seem to be in play in your case. So, why write posts like the OP in this thread? Why is there still so much venom in your words? So much black and white thinking? So much us vs. them? That's the part that I am trying to understand.

Or, am I off-base here and you are trying to convey some other message to those who read your posts?

[once removed]

I'm a little bit more indifferent.

... .

Monstrous. Really. Deserves whatever pain she brings upon herself.

Helplessly, these expressions, this thread and what prompted it, do not suggest indifference.

[Nuitari]

But, my confusion comes from your seeming to understand while still lashing out on this board. I read a lot of anger in your posts. Again, the anger is understandable when we don't understand what happened, how, and why. But, that doesn't seem to be in play in your case. So, why write posts like the OP in this thread? Why is there still so much venom in your words? So much black and white thinking? So much us vs. them? That's the part that I am trying to understand.

I don't want to speak for Helplessly, but I'd like to answer this from my own experience. My ex treated me (and others) in ways that no human being should ever treat another person, and I passively took it and asked for more! I can now acknowledge that, in some ways, I was just as dysfunctional as she was for putting up with it for so long, and I spend a lot of time now angry at myself and asking myself what the hell was wrong with me.  Like Helplessly, I also would make excuses for her abusive and selfish behavior, and the more excuses I made, the more terrible and hollow I felt inside.  We are all responsible for our own emotional baggage, and I had become a dumping ground for hers.  Now I don't make excuses.  I don't carry her baggage anymore. Now I don't hesitate to call her out on her behavior. My ex is a horrible person who uses people like tools.  I'm just calling it as I see it. That's just who she is, and that's the reason for her behavior. I don't blame myself for it anymore.  I made my own mistakes, sure, but her behavior is on her, not me.  I can now see my ex in an objective way that I never could before, and I don't like what I see at all.  To call her a human being is being very generous.  I don't believe I'm saying these things about her out of anger, but out of acknowledgment. I'm seeing her for who she is.

Again, I can't speak for Helplessly, but perhaps what you and others are seeing as anger directed at his ex is actually he wanting to put her baggage back on her shoulders where it belongs. Living with my own part in what happened is hard enough. I'm not going to carry her part too.

[Mutt]

Again, I can't speak for Helplessly, but perhaps what you and others are seeing as anger directed at his ex is actually he wanting to put her baggage back on her shoulders where it belongs

I can understand feeling angry at our exes for the things that we went through, how do you heal from here if you stay angry? Personally I think that we all suffered enough, I didn't to continue suffering after the break up for years, maybe even decades, my exuBPDw won't validate the pain that I went through, I still carry some of that pain today. I wanted to put the experience where it belongs, in the past, and to do that, I had to let go of my attachment, if I stay angry with her, I become resentful, bitter, and attached to her. I had enough, I wanted something more out of life, I wanted to heal and move on, I don't deserve, everyone on this board doesn't deserve to continue suffering.

[Seenowayout]

You're my hero helplessly.  I hate her. I visited the kids I left to be with her today. I visited my yard. My house.my garden.  My former life.  It's all gone to me now. Sacrificed for her

And all I gave her. The money. The time. The love. The compassion. The understanding. My religion. All gone. Just like she has been for these last four months -- totally gone...   She has completely disappeared. She has erased me and all ive done for her and shared with her from her life. Like it never happened. No gratitude for any of it. No patchy for me at all

I hate myself. I let it happen

I hate her family. They don't see a problem with all this.

It is war.  Spiritual warfare. I touched true evil. I let it in. Why?

Her parting words -- "all I wanted was to be with you"

Sounds so attractive. But she really meant it. 24x7. No other friends. No other family.  No overtime at work. Just her miserable drunk  *ss sucking the life out of me and telling me how bad I was.  With a sprinkling of true bliss.

And somehow I miss that?

It is war -- and damne it I don't think I survived

[Helplessly]

You certainly have. And you will continue to survive. It's your only option. Think for a minute. How do you want to define your life my friend?  I stand by my words. Feel pity and ruminate over what you did to damage your relationship blah blah... . or cut the cancer out and heal. Become a healthier person   A person who will not allow one of THEM in