19-1/2 year old daughter with BPD and Bi-Polar - a daily struggle since age 6 -

[OrionWDC]

This will be a very long first post – I apologize in advance being that this is my first post but quick summary:

Family dynamic:

My wife and I married for 18 years
16 year old son
19-1/2 year old daughter

Our daughter, whom we will call "A", and no this is not a Pretty Little Liars reference, but almost as tragic, was diagnosed with ADHD at  age 6 which then morphed into a mood disorder and then into Bi-Polar until she was diagnosed as BPD at age 15.  The story is long, but I believe this history will paint the narrative.

We have the perfect little girl -  Bright.  Outgoing.  Personable for a 4 year old and learned all her basics early in life like walking and talking and reading.  At age 4-1/2 she witness a death at daycare (Sudden Death Infant Syndrome) of a six-month old and she witnessed the rescue efforts.  6 months later her  her brother was born and she also started Kindergarten.  A lot of change in a short period of time.  We did not see any negative impact of this at the time but in hindsight may be the root of her change.  

Around age 6 “A” was diagnosed as having ADHD – she was a little hyper and very vocal and driven.  By age 7 we tried the typical ADHD meds and found most of the stimulants drove her into an aggressive or manic behavior.  As her outburst started at about first grade and progressed into second grade, teachers struggled to work with her.  By grade 4, she was placed into a 6:1:1 class with B-MOD plan and it helped, but did not really address / fix what was still happening.  We did not see these behaviors when she was home or at least not to the degree of what they were seeing in school.  Kicking the teacher, biting the teacher, but not aggressive towards other students.  

One day, she was by herself doing a make-up test an when the teacher turned her back to walk out of the classroom, “A” charged her with pencil looking to stab her.  We took her to a hospital an hour away with a great Ped Psych unit.  They admitted her for 16 days.  She had previously been placed on Depakote as a mood stabilizer when she was diagnosed with a mood disorder.  Without trying to dig up all the details and trying to match them I will group all of this together for the sake of getting to the point.  She was hospitalized for aggression, depression, suicidal thoughts, Auditory Hallucinations, about 3-4 times from age 7 to 10.  Trying lithium, Risperdal, Seroquel and a slew of “let’s try this” procedures.  All to a mediocre result.  

At about age 10 we tried Abilify.  What a lifesaver – we had our little girl back.  She was interactive again.  She very re-directable.  She wasn’t lethargic from being doped up on Risperdal anymore.  This lasted about 4 years.  She was mainstreamed back into her classes but kids don’t forget and she was bullied horribly for having a pronounced top gumline and her outburst and quirkiness.  All she wanted to do was to fit in and could not make it happen.  She was entering her Freshman year and had severe maxofacial surgery done to fix her upper gumline removing 12mm of bone and gum to correct her look.  She wanted it done and was expecting that her Freshman year would be a fresh new start.  It however was not.  Kid.  :)on’t.  Forget. (or forgive).  The bullying continued.  Several meetings with the school – nothing really changed it.

Then during 15, one sunny afternoon, out of the blue, she decided she wanted to kill a toad she had found.  It was like she was in a trance or something.  We tried to not draw attention to it.  The next day, she didn’t feel safe around our pets.  She even tried to get some kittens on craigslist delivered to our house but she wasn’t sure if she was going to hurt them or not.  We made sure never arrived.  She kept threatening to kill herself and even tried to hang herself with a very loose sheet off bunk bed.  We ended up getting her into 3-month med washout program and re-evaluation to determine what her true baseline was.  They took her off her 14mg of Abilify, her 200 or 250mg of Depakote and her Atarax (not sure of the dose).  She did okay coming of them and her baseline was not a lot different just all over the place.  The process took 30 days to step off it.  This was where she was diagnosed with BPD because she didn’t have the typical Bi-Polar traits and stimulants worked against her.  She extremely med sensitive.

Upon her discharge from the 90 facility, she placed into a residential treatment home for monitoring of her meds and was placed in a day treatment class in a new school district.  She thrived at the school but hated the RTF.  She came home on weekends and we would visit during the week.  The weekends were horrible with her and she very resentful for being in the RTF but also like the interaction of the other residents.

She was in there a year and it was a mixed bag.  She learned some bad traits she wasn’t exposed to at home but he also grew at the Day Treatment Program.  When she came home, we got the school to finish her Junior year and also cover transportation and cost for her graduate from the Day Treatment Program.  She did exceptional and it was absolutely her best time in life.  She struggled and pushed limits.  Broke the rules.  Hated DBT therapy.  But was pretty and popular and everyone wanted to be her and hang around with her.  The life she always looked for.

Then she graduated.  Her life was changing and she struggled with it.  But she did it in a rebellious manner.  As soon as she turned 18, age is very important to her, she thought she could do anything an adult could do.  She stayed out all night one night and turned off her phone.  That was new!  We went to Cancun on vacation and she snuck off and decided to have sex with a total stranger and was out later than she should have been.  She argued with is – typical teen stuff.

We had applied to very good CR (Community Residence) and she was accepted.  The plan was put into place before she graduated from high school and it was in the same area where she went to high school so she had friends in that area.  She wanted to be there and was looking forward to it.  What a mistake.  She learned how to do everything wrong.  She lied to us religiously.  Found out she could come and go whenever she wanted to because she was over 18.  Took her meds when she felt like it.  Slept and met with guys with regard to her safety.  She was living it up while disregarding all the rules and was kicked out of the CR in seven months.  We intervened all the time with no long lasting results.  She finally got kicked out and we packed up her stuff and she came home for a little while but then went back to her friends outside of the CR and did some couch surfing for a while and would stay with this guy and then get tired of that move onto another guy.  We had to get her out of two three very dangerous situations that she claimed was abusive but later she said she just lied to have us help her.

We have been extremely supportive of “A” and assisting her anyway we can.  The best doctors and therapists.  Read any book we could.  Always had a great relationship with “A” and a strong relationship with her support staff (teachers, doctors, counselors, etc.).  My wife and I were always at every meeting together showing a united front for “A” and her support staff.  Financially and emotionally we have given her what she needed (and didn’t need), and what she wanted.

She had been on the pill after entering the RTF and day treatment facility.  Upon her graduation and her being admitted into the CR she was wanted an IUD, something more fool-proof.  She had it removed  a couple months later after some influence from another resident who thought it would be cool to get pregnant.  “A” then had many intentions on getting pregnant.  We got her to get the Nexplanon arm implant a few days later after explain the impact this would have.  She had that one removed for a few months and then we got her to get another one which she ended up having it removed as well explaining it was bent and broken.  No pills, no condoms, no nothing.  She’s had three STD’s over the last year.

This last year, which would be from the time she was kicked out of the CR she doesn’t want to come home, but wants all the support we can offer.  We lay out a plan for an apartment and a school or class and she would bail at the last moment and everyone would left hanging.  We have missed a ton of work supporting her.

She was an hour away and was living with a an older guy for the last three months who really did care for her.  He was 34, she was 19.  He ended up back in Iraq as a Firefighter and she decided to moved two hours away.  My wife and my son and I cleaned that apartment for 6 hours.  While she was living there, she has been stripping at various clubs for money because she  gets SSI and doesn’t want to jeopardize losing it and likes the attention.

During the last year – she also has had four different dogs – eventually re-homing them all, including one with us that was $1200 (thank you WAG’s lending).

We didn’t like her being two hours away as she doesn’t take her meds.  She’s reckless with her body and tells everyone what they want to hear to get what she wants.  But it was her choice and she found an apartment and took it.  We visited her and took her some of her stuff to make apartment “homey”.  She was there a month, dancing at a club and meeting new guys.  Then she told us that she was going to visit her friend from a couple of years ago that lived three hours away from her and two hours away from us.  She was there two days and they offered to let her move it.  Great… here we go again.  

So “A” called us on day three at 9:30pm at night crying saying she need someone pick her up and get her out here.  Her friend was extremely controlling because “A” went out with someone else and she was upset she wasn’t spending time with her.  She also said she clinically insane as she had went to her dr. apt with her earlier in the day and the doctor had talked to her about it.  (who knows?)_and then come to find out, her friend is pregnant and living with a level 3 sex offender that is 32 and when he was 22 preferred 12 & 14 year old girls.  And another girl lives there.  All in a single wide trailer in the middle of no-where.  We hopped in the car and started our two hour journey to go get her.  She called us 30 minutes in to the trip and said we didn’t need to come and that she over reacted and wanted to stay there.  They had offered her cheap rent and that’s what she wanted to hear.

She told us that she was going back to her apartment that she already had and needed her SSI money (my wife is her rep-payee) for her rent.  Come to find out she lied and gave it to her new roommates and had no intent on going back to her original apartment.  She is not threatening that we are stealing from her account and she wants access to everything.  She is only listening to her new roomates.  She got snakebite piercings in her lower lip from the level 3 sex offender.  We finally explained to her that we cannot keep doing this every month.  She is mean.  She is manipulative.  She can be vicious.  She can be remorseful.  She can be distancing.  We told her that if she chose to make this move that we would be distancing ourselves from her.  She doesn’t listen to us and only needs us when she wants something – which is still very teen like.  But, the verbal abuse.  The constant poor choices and cancelling her doctor and counseling appointments.  We have to take time off work to go get her to make sure she goes.  We can’t do that as easily now and frankly it’s up to her.  We are crumbling as a support system due to the stress from her

And, again, for some reason, we found out from a another source today, she got her nexplanaon removed and thinks she may be pregnant – but I believe its highly unlikely she actually is.  But she will be.  She knew out door was open and tried religiously to get her to come home and re-baseline.  We have had doctors jump through hoops for her and she doesn’t follow through.  

We are at a point where we need to focus on our 16 year old son who is amazing.  He has been pushed aside while we fight with “A” and deal with her crisis of the day or the week.  We need to be able to break away, but I am struggling with it morally.  Poor choices are a way of life, but if you don’t learn from them, a mistake that is repeated becomes a choice.  

I apologize for spilling it all on here.  I’m even sure that it may read a little jumbled at the times may be slightly our alignment but I believe you will get the point.  We are really on the edge of just wanting to give up – and for our son that may be the only hope for him and us.  We both have very successful job and they are both stressful as well.

I am open to any all feedback.  Thanks for having me – I may settle in for a while.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Hi there orionWDC

welcome to the forum. I'm very glad you found us and can tell you that it's been my life saviour. I'm extremely sorry to read your story, one problem after another, such dramas are excruciatingly difficult to cope with. You clearly love your family and only want the best for your daughter. It's devastating to see them make bad choices.

I encourage you to re-read about BPD using the tools at the top right hand side of this page. It's time to arm yourself with a toolkit that will help you better interact with your daughter. As parents we have this innate need to fix our adult children, we love them and would do (and do) all we can to help them. I did everything I could, we did everything and ended up stuck with nothing else we could do. Then I found this forum.

I tried something I hadn't tried before. It's simple really. If something isn't working then change your approach. The one thing I hadn't tried was to change myself. So that's what I'm doing. I have a BPDs26 that got dx at 24; always a very difficult and tricky child. He returned home to us and he's responded very positively to my new way of interacting.

We are at a point where we need to focus on our 16 year old son who is amazing.  He has been pushed aside while we fight with “A” and deal with her crisis of the day or the week.  We need to be able to break away, but I am struggling with it morally.  Poor choices are a way of life, but if you don’t learn from them, a mistake that is repeated becomes a choice.  

I have a 16 year old son too. I totally understand how you feel. I've found a way forward for my family and I sincerely hope you can too. I stopped giving my BPDs money. To behave like an adult, he needs to be treated like one, his life isn't what I hoped for but it's his life. I no longer judge his choices but I make sure I'm emotionally available.

Do you have any support for yourself?
Do you think you're ready to set some boundaries?

I encourage you to read posts including:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=308211.0

Take care of yourself

LP

[OrionWDC]

Thank you for the reply - it is appreciated!

It seems like whenever we pull her close, she pushes away after a day or so and does something that is detrimental to her well being.  We don't judge, but we do try guide her.  Now this AM we woke up to see that she is engaged to a guy who she has known for two days and is 39 years old. 

We try distancing ourselves, she ups the ante.  We try to intervene she digs her heals in.  We try to reason and work with her and she will tell you what you want to hear and then do the opposite and blatantly lie to you.  We have offered many times for her to please come back home - but she hates the town she grew up in due to the bullying.  It is always us reaching out to her unless she needs money or is trouble.

I am at a loss especially after this random engagement to a total stranger. 

[Lollypop]

It seems like whenever we pull her close, she pushes away after a day... .We try to reason and work with her and she will tell you what you want to hear... .

Hi there Orion

I could have written this myself when my BPDs was 20.  I'm guessing you heard of her engagement on social media? You both must be very frustrated as you've tried everything you can thing of.

We did too. I ended up manoeuvring my BPDs out of our home, pretending he'd got a small inheritance. We encouraged him to go travelling and practically forced him to do so, Within 8 months after helping him find somewhere to live,  jobs to apply for etc our savings money ran out,  there was always the hope that he needed just one more month, there was always the "new" job he was hoping to get, I look back and see how ridiculous this was, just entire wasted energy and money.  This is not a healthy relationship. This was me smothering and Making choices for him. We came to our end. We had no hope.

Actually, it turned out to be our beginning. We found this forum and I armed myself up with the skills, confidence and got myself a plan.

I was willing to provide him with bed and board only. I stopped giving him money. I started to focus on our core relationship instead of trying to fix him or his situation. I can't fix him, the only think I could do was change the way I REACT to him.

I encourage you to read about BPD and get yourself some boundaries in place, Everything I ever did to try and "help" stopped his development. My BPDs did not want to grow up, he resisted taking responsibility for himself, I passed that responsibility over to him. I've learnt to be assertive but loving.  To behave like an adult, then he needed to be treated like one. This hasn't happened overnight, it's been phased and he's positively responded.

We want to retire in three years, we cannot financially support our adult BPD. He has to learn to live independently. I'm being the parent he needs and not the one I thought I should be.

I look forward to reading your posts. This is a process and it's one step at a time,

What's your biggest problem at the moment?

LP

[OrionWDC]

Well... .it's good to hear we aren't alone.  We've read a lot about BPD but honestly we probably do protect her so she doesn't ruin her future when in actuality she ruining our and hers by this push and pull mindset.

Our current problem which for us is a huge came changer and would be extremely detrimental to her and others.  She met this guy,who is 38, 6 prior arrests that were "only" misdemeanors as she put it when we did some background digging.  They got engaged after two days.  It's only a ring right... .no harm yet?  Then she calls asking for her birth certificate so they can go to the court and get married. ? Okay... .it's only a legal document bounding you together right... .?  The she admits that she did get birth control implant removed and is ready to have a child with this this guy  . So as her dad I go into dad mode and explain breathlessly how this will effect her, it will change her future,blah blah blah bang head on wall.  Her reply, "You know I'm just gonna do what I anyway."     It won't last. She has this pattern of about 4 weeks with a person or situation and then she's bored or meets someone new, or whatever.  Trouble is if she gets pregnant - what then?  We are not raising another child.  She won't be able to handle it alone and whoever she is with will do all the work.  I'm scared for her and our family. I have the opposite where she won't come home and will couch surf or stay where ever she can.  She now living with this guy.  Last week it was her friend Whois pregnant and the sex offender.

[Lollypop]

Well... .it's good to hear we aren't alone.  We've read a lot about BPD but honestly we probably do protect her so she doesn't ruin her future when in actuality she ruining our and hers by this push and pull mindset.
... .
Trouble is if she gets pregnant - what then?  We are not raising another child.  She won't be able to handle it alone and whoever she is with will do all the work.  I'm scared for her and our family.

Hi Orion

You're definitely not alone! Everybody on this forum is here because they are trying to find a way to cope with the devastation of BPD and behaviours. We're all different, our situations unique and sadly there's not a one quick fix solution.

We've had many sleepless nights worrying, one or the other distraught and feeling at a complete loss. We'd decide to have a family talk, prepare ourselves and promise each other we'd not lose it in the conversation. Even before the diagnosis we knew it was difficult for him to hear us.

Now we understand that he needs us to be calm, non judgmental, loving and validating.  I totally realise that in your circumstances this may seem unachievable!  Believe me  it's possible, but I needed to learn from the tools here.

The fear of the future is such a big problem that we all face. Staying present really does help. The future is not set. Worrying is wasted energy. Your daughter has announced her engagement - she's not married and hopefully not pregnant. She thinks she's in love, she's got roses around the door syndrome and she's on top of the world. .

With respect, the more you object the more she'll rebel. She's caught up in her own drama and we have to learn not to get caught up as well - as hard as that may be. As you've said in 4 weeks she may have moved on.

You've said that you're not prepared to raise another child. Do you both feel this way as it's important that any boundary set, is kept? It sounds like your daughter intends to get pregnant unless of course she's just pushing a button to get you to react?

If something's not working, then we change our approach. I don't even know if this is an option for you as you're understandably emotional but if you can calm yourself and prepare (using DEARMAN) you could talk to your daughter and pass the responsibility of her well-being over to her. She'll be expecting you to try and talk her out of it and as you've always saved her in the past she's conditioned to expect that to happen again.  If she hears you, then she may think twice.

How do you and your partner help one another to stay calm? Do you have any other support?

LP

[OrionWDC]

Just one quick reply - before I reply completely:

You've said that you're not prepared to raise another child. Do you both feel this way as it's important that any boundary set, is kept? It sounds like your daughter intends to get pregnant unless of course she's just pushing a button to get you to react?

If something's not working, then we change our approach. I don't even know if this is an option for you as you're understandably emotional but if you can calm yourself and prepare (using DEARMAN) you could talk to your daughter and pass the responsibility of her well-being over to her. She'll be expecting you to try and talk her out of it and as you've always saved her in the past she's conditioned to expect that to happen again.  If she hears you, then she may think twice.

We are on the same page with respect to not raising another child. My wife has fibromyalgia from adrenal burnout from dealing with this. She was diagnosed at 36 and stress really makes it worse.

 Tummy question is, what do you mean by "pass the responsibility of her well being over to her?"  Wouldn't that be construed as abondoning her?

Appreciate the dialog - it's enlightening.

[Lollypop]

Hi there Orion

I'm just about to go to out but couldn't leave without replying.

With acceptance, I finally realised I couldn't control the situation. Many BPD interpret all kinds of behaviors as abandoning. In my own experience, it could be going on vacation without him (despite inviting him and him declining), watching him leave when he did not like my rules the list goes on. My goal is to better my relationship AND support and encourage him to take responsibility for his  choices. There is a way forwards to live and support and keeping balance; living my own life and allowing him to live his.

I totally understand you're in a tough situation. It's baby steps,  I encourage you to check out the tools on communication and validation.

Hugs to you both

LP

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey OrionWDC:  
I'd like to join Lollypop in welcoming you!  Lollypop already shared encouraging thoughts and resources.  Hope I can add something helpful, as well.

I can understand how disturbing you situation with your daughter must be.  You and your partner have worked hard to try and give her the most normal life possible.  I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to have her make such poor decisions.

She told us that she was going back to her apartment that she already had and needed her SSI money (my wife is her rep-payee) for her rent.  Come to find out she lied and gave it to her new roommates and had no intent on going back to her original apartment.  She is not threatening that we are stealing from her account and she wants access to everything.  She is only listening to her new roommates

Sounds like you daughter is in with a bad crowd, and they appear to have a negative influence on her.  If she marries, could her partner become her rep-payee?  Could part of her wanting a baby be that she would be eligible for other government aid?

You may just have to radically accept the situation with your daughter.  As in the Serenity Prayer, sometime we have to accept that we can't change some things, no matter what we do.  

Sounds like you and your wife have tried everything possible to help her.  You have no power to fix her.  Unless circumstances are such that you gain a conservatorship over your daughter, she is legally responsible for herself.  You may just have to radically accept the situation with your daughter.

Just as you set a boundary that you won't raise a grandchild, you have to set other boundaries in regard to your own health and welfare.  Having healthy boundaries for you isn't abandoning your daughter.  

It might be helpful to read the threads and/or articles at the links below:

POOR EXECUTIVE CONTROL?  It could explain some of your daughter's behavior.

EASE YOUR PAIN BY REFRAMING YOUR THOUGHTS

RADICAL ACCEPTANCE

[OrionWDC]

LP & NN -

Thank you for the directions -

She did still get married to someone she has known only after a week and is 38 yrs old while she is 19-1/2.  I don't get it... .never will.  We have been reading and taking the emotion out of the equation and just stating facts and being compassionate was informing her of the boundaries going forward.  She knows about the baby and according to the "husband" he has no plans on having a kid right away and actually wanted to wait but she pressured him into it.  That's going to be an enabling relationship I am afraid.  He won't want to disappoint her so he'll give her what she "needs" when in reality it will be what she wants.

We have told her no financial support - she wanted $25 to get her hair done for the wedding.  We told her we couldn't do it.  To say she was upset and swearing is a gross understatement.  But we need to start someplace.  She told us about the wedding at 9:00pm Sunday night and said, "I am getting married tomorrow.  Are you coming?"  We told her no.  We had our jobs and needed to be there.  We had no time to plan for the time off.  She was mad - but I couldn't attend be she would have also taken it as a sign of support and approval - and that is not what it would be.

Pretty disheartening at this point.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi OrionWDC:   
Thanks for giving us an update.  You did a good job of enforcing some boundaries.  I know it had to be hard to do.      Keep reminding yourself that boundaries may be her salvation for the future.

The marriage won't likely last, as she hasn't done any forward thinking (just been spontaneous).  May-December relationships can work with an emotionally mature woman.  I think you already know that it won't last. Your daughter will likely have a day of reckoning.  There will be a point when the age difference will cramp her style, or a baby isn't fun any more.

I know it won't be easy, but stay strong and keep reaching out for support.   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders