Suspected charming/stalking by Proxy - How to continue detachment

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi everyone

Although I have been a long time reader (7+ months) this is my first post. I just wanted to start by saying this website and resource has been a significant part of my recovery from my former relationship.

I had made great progress in my disengagement and recovery until I discovered in late January that my ex-girlfriend has taken a job in my city no more than half a mile from my own office.

I am not sure how much background is required and sorry for the length:

(1) she has been diagnosed with a number of mental illnesses including BPD, bipolar and depression and has also received treatment for alcoholism and substance abuse (I didn't know any of this until after the relationship ended - one of her reconciliation emails contained the details).

(2) we met at work and we started a "relationship" within about 3 months - much to my shame she was already in a relationship at the time (which I knew of and continued to see her).

(3) things got very intense very quickly and we were making all sorts of plans for the future. Much like many of the stories I have read on this site there was a push for commitment (marriage, holidays, engagement and children).

(4) the hateful comments, snide remarks, and push/pull "shall we break up?" rhetorical questions started almost immediately. I did not have the 1/2 month honeymoon period that a lot of members seem to have experienced - instead mine started very low intensity and ramped up over time.

(5) we made plans to move in together although whenever I suggested we actually start looking she became reticent and found reasons why we should delay the moving in. During this time she lived with her boyfriend (to put it in context he traveled around the world a lot and was often out of the flat for a month at a time for his job).

(6) she got a new job in a different city about 1.5 hours away from my current city (she lived 30 minutes away from my city at the time) and the plans developed that we would move to a smaller town about half way between the two places to facilitate an easier commute for both.

(7) she finally ended it with her then boyfriend much to my initial relief. Within 2 weeks of this happening the emotional and (threatened) physical abuse had ramped up.

The first "break up" occurred after she told me that she could do better than me and I was "punching" above my weight. Her view was that I was lucky that she loved me so much and could overlook my flaws. I challenged her saying something so hurtful and unnecessary and asked to take it back. Instead I received a torrent of abuse, she told me she couldn't be with someone who treated her so badly and didn't want to be with her (!).

(8) The contact didn't end and I made pretty frantic attempts to fix the break up. After a week of her setting up times to meet up to reconcile and immediately breaking the plans we finally caught up and spent a very nice weekend together. During the break up I had realized how important my family was to me (they had supported me throughout the relationship) and how important it was that I stayed nearer to them.

She had always hated the city I live in with a passion because its an old industrial town and not particularly sexy (but I love it!) and said that she didn't want to live there. I told her especially given the recent break up I was determined to stay and if it meant the relationship ended then so be it. We decided to both think for a few days and discuss again, during this time things were back to normal and great.

(9) A few days later I called her to say that I wanted to stay where I was currently living but offered to move to the area she lives in (about 30 minutes away) which I thought was a fair compromise. This time I had insults, abuse and remarks which did not compare in their intensity and hatefulness to what I had experienced before. Sadly the net was widened to include attacks on my family who had treated her very well and supported me with the relationship despite their misgivings. The final attack was to say she should have never left her ex boyfriend because he let her do what she wanted and therefore loved her. I told her if she thought it was a deal-breaker I'd be sad but it might be healthy for both of us. She told me wouldn't be sad because the relationship had just been a distraction for her and I really wasn't that important. She also said she could do better and that she was embarrassed we had been intimate.

Despite usually being relatively stoic after the call ended I actually wept with sadness - I have never been spoken to so badly in my entire life.

(10) I didn't make desperate attempts to get back in touch with her after this episode but did send a few texts and make a few calls to see (stupidly) where we stood whereas I should have kicked her to the curb that very same day. I didn't hear any response for a week (I suspect she was attempting to charm her "amazing" ex boyfriend and failed) and then she got in touch.

At this point (thanks in part to this amazing website) I had started NC whilst I was being given the silent treatment and did not respond to her texts/calls/emails putting everything on block. When she realized I had blocked her she called me from different numbers and different email addresses and finally got her sister to call me to beg to meet up with her (I discovered that this in itself is a form of abuse that her sister was enabling - I had never met or spoken to her sister in our entire relationship).

Ultimately she turned up at my (and her former) place of work to try and talk to me. I was really scared she'd make a scene so I went to see her (breaking NC I guess) and managed to get her away from my office complex. I told her I didn't want to talk to her and that I had work to do - she ran away sobbing and I felt awful but didn't try to re-engage.

I received a final email from her (from another email address) explaining her various issues and diagnoses and stating that she loved me and wanted to try and make it work. She explained her issues with emotional regulation, vulnerability and said because she loved me I was a "trigger" for her bad behavior.

I was very very close to responding to this and rekindling our relationship but I believed it to be another charm attempt and a way to trigger my own white knight tendencies. It also felt very insincere and I guessed it had been written with the help of a T. As an aside three days before I received this email my LinkedIn profile was viewed by an anonymous user in the "mental health profession" so I saw the two things as being linked.

Fast forward to present, after I ignored her last email I heard nothing from her at all. I went about taking the steps necessary to detach and started focusing on myself. In January of this year (2 months after the breakup) one of my colleagues who knows us both told me that she had got a new job as described above. I almost fell off my chair when I was told and spent the next 2 weeks panicking as I believed I was free of her.

Since then she has contacted (email, coffee catchup) a number of my female colleagues who she has told the whole sorry story to. This means that not only do all my colleagues know my business (I am generally very private about this) but they also know that she has mental health issues.

Whilst they are telling me I "dodged a bullet" they are also giving me running commentary on her life (I've asked them politely not to as its none of my business). It seems that she is still having treatment and trying to improve her life. I have also noticed that these colleagues are spending more time than usual asking me about what I am doing (certainly more than before) and I am convinced that they are passing this information back to my ex.

This whole situation is making me very uncomfortable, I have even gotten to the point where I started to bargain with myself about whether the best thing to do would be to re-engage with her if she is continuing to seek treatment. I don't want that but it would be easier maybe? I haven't been dating seriously since the breakup as I want to make sure I am 100% before getting involved in someone's life in any capacity so I am single at the moment.

Mainly I wonder if this has anything to do with me at all or whether I am just projecting or being a bit narcissistic assuming she is doing what she is doing to get at me or get my attention? It all seems very convenient and the fact that she is committed to working in my city (a town she hates apparently) when she wouldn't do the same for our relationship really annoys me although I know it shouldn't at this point.

So my question is: am I being paranoid? Is this some sort of stalking/charming exercise? How do I move past and beyond this without breaking and getting suckered back in? Why do I feel so much pressure even though nothing specifically is happening?

Any insight or views that anyone is willing to share would be greatly received.


getfree

[getfree]

Hi everyone

Although I have been a long time reader (7+ months) this is my first post. I just wanted to start by saying this website and resource has been a significant part of my recovery from my former relationship.

I had made great progress in my disengagement and recovery until I discovered in late January that my ex-girlfriend has taken a job in my city no more than half a mile from my own office.

I am not sure how much background is required and sorry for the length:

(1) she has been diagnosed with a number of mental illnesses including BPD, bipolar and depression and has also received treatment for alcoholism and substance abuse (I didn't know any of this until after the relationship ended - one of her reconciliation emails contained the details).

(2) we met at work and we started a "relationship" within about 3 months - much to my shame she was already in a relationship at the time (which I knew of and continued to see her).

(3) things got very intense very quickly and we were making all sorts of plans for the future. Much like many of the stories I have read on this site there was a push for commitment (marriage, holidays, engagement and children).

(4) the hateful comments, snide remarks, and push/pull "shall we break up?" rhetorical questions started almost immediately. I did not have the 1/2 month honeymoon period that a lot of members seem to have experienced - instead mine started very low intensity and ramped up over time.

(5) we made plans to move in together although whenever I suggested we actually start looking she became reticent and found reasons why we should delay the moving in. During this time she lived with her boyfriend (to put it in context he traveled around the world a lot and was often out of the flat for a month at a time for his job).

(6) she got a new job in a different city about 1.5 hours away from my current city (she lived 30 minutes away from my city at the time) and the plans developed that we would move to a smaller town about half way between the two places to facilitate an easier commute for both.

(7) she finally ended it with her then boyfriend much to my initial relief. Within 2 weeks of this happening the emotional and (threatened) physical abuse had ramped up.

The first "break up" occurred after she told me that she could do better than me and I was "punching" above my weight. Her view was that I was lucky that she loved me so much and could overlook my flaws. I challenged her saying something so hurtful and unnecessary and asked to take it back. Instead I received a torrent of abuse, she told me she couldn't be with someone who treated her so badly and didn't want to be with her (!).

(8) The contact didn't end and I made pretty frantic attempts to fix the break up. After a week of her setting up times to meet up to reconcile and immediately breaking the plans we finally caught up and spent a very nice weekend together. During the break up I had realized how important my family was to me (they had supported me throughout the relationship) and how important it was that I stayed nearer to them.

She had always hated the city I live in with a passion because its an old industrial town and not particularly sexy (but I love it!) and said that she didn't want to live there. I told her especially given the recent break up I was determined to stay and if it meant the relationship ended then so be it. We decided to both think for a few days and discuss again, during this time things were back to normal and great.

(9) A few days later I called her to say that I wanted to stay where I was currently living but offered to move to the area she lives in (about 30 minutes away) which I thought was a fair compromise. This time I had insults, abuse and remarks which did not compare in their intensity and hatefulness to what I had experienced before. Sadly the net was widened to include attacks on my family who had treated her very well and supported me with the relationship despite their misgivings. The final attack was to say she should have never left her ex boyfriend because he let her do what she wanted and therefore loved her. I told her if she thought it was a deal-breaker I'd be sad but it might be healthy for both of us. She told me wouldn't be sad because the relationship had just been a distraction for her and I really wasn't that important. She also said she could do better and that she was embarrassed we had been intimate.

Despite usually being relatively stoic after the call ended I actually wept with sadness - I have never been spoken to so badly in my entire life.

(10) I didn't make desperate attempts to get back in touch with her after this episode but did send a few texts and make a few calls to see (stupidly) where we stood whereas I should have kicked her to the curb that very same day. I didn't hear any response for a week (I suspect she was attempting to charm her "amazing" ex boyfriend and failed) and then she got in touch.

At this point (thanks in part to this amazing website) I had started NC whilst I was being given the silent treatment and did not respond to her texts/calls/emails putting everything on block. When she realized I had blocked her she called me from different numbers and different email addresses and finally got her sister to call me to beg to meet up with her (I discovered that this in itself is a form of abuse that her sister was enabling - I had never met or spoken to her sister in our entire relationship).

Ultimately she turned up at my (and her former) place of work to try and talk to me. I was really scared she'd make a scene so I went to see her (breaking NC I guess) and managed to get her away from my office complex. I told her I didn't want to talk to her and that I had work to do - she ran away sobbing and I felt awful but didn't try to re-engage.

I received a final email from her (from another email address) explaining her various issues and diagnoses and stating that she loved me and wanted to try and make it work. She explained her issues with emotional regulation, vulnerability and said because she loved me I was a "trigger" for her bad behavior.

I was very very close to responding to this and rekindling our relationship but I believed it to be another charm attempt and a way to trigger my own white knight tendencies. It also felt very insincere and I guessed it had been written with the help of a T. As an aside three days before I received this email my LinkedIn profile was viewed by an anonymous user in the "mental health profession" so I saw the two things as being linked.

Fast forward to present, after I ignored her last email I heard nothing from her at all. I went about taking the steps necessary to detach and started focusing on myself. In January of this year (2 months after the breakup) one of my colleagues who knows us both told me that she had got a new job as described above. I almost fell off my chair when I was told and spent the next 2 weeks panicking as I believed I was free of her.

Since then she has contacted (email, coffee catchup) a number of my female colleagues who she has told the whole sorry story to. This means that not only do all my colleagues know my business (I am generally very private about this) but they also know that she has mental health issues.

Whilst they are telling me I "dodged a bullet" they are also giving me running commentary on her life (I've asked them politely not to as its none of my business). It seems that she is still having treatment and trying to improve her life. I have also noticed that these colleagues are spending more time than usual asking me about what I am doing (certainly more than before) and I am convinced that they are passing this information back to my ex.

This whole situation is making me very uncomfortable, I have even gotten to the point where I started to bargain with myself about whether the best thing to do would be to re-engage with her if she is continuing to seek treatment. I don't want that but it would be easier maybe? I haven't been dating seriously since the breakup as I want to make sure I am 100% before getting involved in someone's life in any capacity so I am single at the moment.

Mainly I wonder if this has anything to do with me at all or whether I am just projecting or being a bit narcissistic assuming she is doing what she is doing to get at me or get my attention? It all seems very convenient and the fact that she is committed to working in my city (a town she hates apparently) when she wouldn't do the same for our relationship really annoys me although I know it shouldn't at this point.

So my question is: am I being paranoid? Is this some sort of stalking/charming exercise? How do I move past and beyond this without breaking and getting suckered back in? Why do I feel so much pressure even though nothing specifically is happening?

Any insight or views that anyone is willing to share would be greatly received.


getfree

[getfree]

Apologies guys the thread should be "suspected charming/stalking by Proxy" - I haven't managed to edit the title yet.

getfree

[once removed]

hi getfree and

This whole situation is making me very uncomfortable, I have even gotten to the point where I started to bargain with myself about whether the best thing to do would be to re-engage with her if she is continuing to seek treatment. I don't want that but it would be easier maybe?

i can certainly understand why all of this would make you very uncomfortable, especially now that it has come into your workplace.

it is one of the reasons why we dont push "no contact" as a rule - it is anxiety inducing, and it can often make things worse for both parties.

this article can help clear some things up: https://bpdfamily.com/content/no-contact-right-way-wrong-way

so i think the long and short of it is that it may actually help you if you give this person an outlet. if that is the path you choose, it requires firm boundaries, and a lot of strength. you give an inch, she may take a mile, and thats where your boundaries come in: https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

it is also possible that if you continue not to engage, the behavior will stop. for now, she is getting a response, probably a level of sympathy, and as you say, shes engaging you by proxy.

if you set a clear line, like say, youre open to some communication by email or text (only), and you dont engage her contact emotionally, it is likely her attention will eventually fizzle out and go elsewhere.

if you feel that any contact from her would set you back emotionally, it may not be the best course. just some things to consider.

PS. more on "charming" here: goo.gl/P4qIas

[Lucky Jim]

Hey getfree, Welcome!  I think it's important to acknowledge that you are feeling uncomfortable in this situation, which you are doing.  Suggest you pay attention to your gut feelings, which are sort of an early warning system.  I don't recommend dipping your toe back in the BPD swamp, which can be toxic.  If you feel the need to re-engage, then I concur with once removed that firm boundaries are essential.  The problem with re-engaging, in my view, is that if you give a pwBPD an inch, they will take a mile.  Do you really want to open the door to additional pressure and manipulation?  Suggest you tread carefully here.

LuckyJim

[getfree]

Thanks for your welcome and advice once removed and Lucky Jim - I do appreciate it.

@once removed

Thank you for your advice on NC and the links to "charming" - I had actually read that article previously but I am using the regular slang which I accept probably does not encompass the complexity of the compulsion to relationship recycle.

When I spoke to her sister about the situation it was clear she was going through a very hard time with the break up and, as is always the case with her, she only realized the implications of her actions after the event.

Lucky Jim

Suggest you pay attention to your gut feelings, which are sort of an early warning system.  I don't recommend dipping your toe back in the BPD swamp, which can be toxic.  If you feel the need to re-engage, then I concur with once removed that firm boundaries are essential. 

LuckyJim

Ignoring my gut feelings was 100% the reason I continued this relationship for the length of time. Ignoring my gut was 100% the reason I re-engaged with her after the first major breakup. I don't feel the need to re-engage with her at all, what I'd like is the nice peaceful life I had before I met her!

Me re-engaging would be self-defeating and is not something I want to do but sometimes I get so frustrated and anxious about her being half a mile from me and contacting half a dozen of my work colleagues (and getting information from them) that sometimes I think I "may as well" re-engage with her. Its stupid I know but I don't know what else to do.

To add further context when I first met her she was pining after a former love interest and she showed me and a few others his LinkedIn profile - I discovered she would stalk him on social media on an almost daily basis. I never asked about the details but I suspect a similar turn of events happened as with me.

I say this because I know she has an obsessive/stalkerish tendency with former love interests (especially those who she feels she has been abandoned by) - I really don't want this to be my reality.

I know its stupid but I am also *really* annoyed that she has chosen to do what would have been beneficial for our relationship immediately after it has ended... .

[OptimusRhyme]

I say this because I know she has an obsessive/stalkerish tendency with former love interests (especially those who she feels she has been abandoned by) - I really don't want this to be my reality.

Unfortunately, I don't think you have any control over this - she will do what she will, and I would suggest proceeding as if her actions are irrelevant to your life (because they are now). Once removed makes some excellent points about how an ironclad NC policy might not be the thing that best serves reestablishing your freedom and personal boundaries, but make your decisions solely on what makes your life better and more at peace. You'd be perfectly reasonable to ask your coworkers to keep any information about her to themselves, etc.

[getfree]

Unfortunately, I don't think you have any control over this - she will do what she will, and I would suggest proceeding as if her actions are irrelevant to your life (because they are now).

I think this is what I am struggling with that the moment. If she chooses to do what she's doing now for a long time there isn't a lot I can do about it.

In terms of NC policy I think if she sticks around in the city long enough there will be times I will run into her (professional conferences etc) and I would take the view I would speak to her and be pleasant but not engage any further than that.

I have asked coworkers not to discuss her with me and they are respecting that in the main, however I still think that they are passing my information back to her, I think I mentioned earlier that I have had more prying questions about my life being asked recently which has resulted in me becoming more evasive in my answers.

What I need to focus on is becoming truly indifferent which I suppose I clearly am not.

[once removed]

Me re-engaging would be self-defeating and is not something I want to do but sometimes I get so frustrated and anxious about her being half a mile from me and contacting half a dozen of my work colleagues (and getting information from them) that sometimes I think I "may as well" re-engage with her. Its stupid I know but I don't know what else to do.

how would it be self defeating? the answer is important here.

it sounds like pride. this is a drama triangle with moving parts, and pride will only keep you on the triangle (frustrated).

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

there is more than one way off the triangle. one means is by controlled/limited contact. indifference is another, although as you say youre not there.

so the question to me in terms of indifference is, does it matter to you what your colleagues and she might or not be saying to each other? if so why?

[getfree]

how would it be self defeating? the answer is important here.

I think it would be self-defeating because I don't actually want anything from her except to be left alone. Engaging with her would mean that she would still be controlling my pleasure/pain as I am clearly not emotionally detached.

It is something I am trying to work towards but I don't trust myself to maintain boundaries or not re-engage in a way that would ultimately be detrimental.

so the question to me in terms of indifference is, does it matter to you what your colleagues and she might or not be saying to each other? if so why?

I think I can answer this one more easily:

(1) privacy - I am generally a private person, none of our coworkers had any insight into our relationship when it was happening but now they get all the gory details from her.

(2) shame - the circumstances of the relationship were not the best and it wasn't my finest hour. The fact she is pouring her heart out to them means that they know the details of what occurred which I am ashamed by.

(3) control - when we were together she didn't talk to my coworkers. When we were together she didn't want to live in my city. Now that the relationship is over she has reversed both of these policies. Even when we aren't together I don't the outcome I'd like or even an approximation of it. Even now she is getting everything on her terms which really upsets me.

(4) loyalty - I've known these coworkers for a lot longer than her but her sob story is managing to keep them engaged and I feel become manipulated by her. Even when she is explaining her issues and problems she is managing to recruit people to her cause. Although they tell me I have "dodged a bullet" they are still more concerned with her welfare than mine.

[once removed]

okay. then no, it doesnt seem that controlled contact would be the way to go, at least not now.

your reasoning as to why this bothers you makes perfect sense to me. i do hope that it was a useful exercise to tap into.

do you know when or what she is saying to your coworkers, or when/what theyre saying back?

[getfree]

do you know when or what she is saying to your coworkers, or when/what theyre saying back?

Is she is telling my coworkers about our relationship and how it broke down (presumably including details). She is also giving them insight into her psychiatric history, in more detail then I ever received, as well as her current treatment. From this I have learned that she is seeing a T and getting "life coaching" although I never ask for details so I am not sure whether she is actually having DBT etc.

I don't know what they are saying back, I have been tempted to ask but I think this would demonstrate my lack of indifference and I wouldn't want that message getting back to her. Given that they have been asking more about my life then they usually would do I suspect they are generally giving them updates about what I am doing etc.

Haven written the above I think what also upsets me is that they get a free and easy discussion with her about her issues and 100% visibility into her problems. In a way that I was never offered. Maybe if I'd known from the start things could have been different but its too late for that now.

What I don't understand is why people who suffer with BPD (and maybe other mental illnesses) are happy to discuss such important things with relative strangers but keep their loved ones on fantasy island.

[once removed]

Is she is telling my coworkers about our relationship and how it broke down (presumably including details).

yikes. that would bug me too.

I don't know what they are saying back, I have been tempted to ask but I think this would demonstrate my lack of indifference

do you think wanting to know what shes up to is part of it? in a way, its similar to the problem many of us have, checking social media, except in this case its not by choice so its pretty natural to want some peace.

Haven written the above I think what also upsets me is that they get a free and easy discussion with her about her issues and 100% visibility into her problems. In a way that I was never offered. Maybe if I'd known from the start things could have been different but its too late for that now.

are you talking about a level of regret?

What I don't understand is why people who suffer with BPD (and maybe other mental illnesses) are happy to discuss such important things with relative strangers but keep their loved ones on fantasy island.

its bad boundaries, pure and simple (same with your coworkers). some people have a habit of telling too much and/or too soon. i did it to a couple of people, and im a private person myself. im not suggesting you should feel sorry for her, but some people go to extremes when they are heartbroken and feeling rejected. she is (somewhat desperately) trying to reverse the sense of rejection.

[getfree]

do you think wanting to know what shes up to is part of it? in a way, its similar to the problem many of us have, checking social media, except in this case its not by choice so its pretty natural to want some peace.

Yes I think so. Neither of us use social media so I haven't had the temptation to look at profiles etc but this is almost like a real life version as you've said. I suppose I have a natural curiosity about what she is up to. If, for instance, she moved straight on to someone new or recycled her ex then it would allow me to let go of the guilt I have for ignoring her attempts at re-engagement. If she has done that then it would be easier to write off what she did/said as knee-jerk reaction rather than her actual feelings.

are you talking about a level of regret?

Yes absolutely! And a new sense of loss. I suppose before I believed that she was not capable of being honest and open and that was that. But now I can see that she can give people full disclosure if she chooses to or it suits her purpose. If I had had that 2 years ago then maybe things would have been different. I can't guarantee that I wouldn't have run in the opposite direction but it would have been fairer to me and meant that we could have worked through the issues together (but maybe that is just a rescuing fantasy I have?

im not suggesting you should feel sorry for her, but some people go to extremes when they are heartbroken and feeling rejected. she is (somewhat desperately) trying to reverse the sense of rejection.

I do feel sorry for her. Like most people on these forums I think that we could have had something very special "but for" the illness which I know is fantasy. She has been trying to deal with this since she was 14 and still can't manage it after 20 years. It makes me feel sad and guilty that she might feel heartbroken and rejected, she has been trying to avoid that her whole life and it must feel like death when it does happen.

But I really don't understand how or why engaging my coworkers would achieve anything in reversing this process. The only person she should be discussing this with is a T and working on her issues - not for me or anyone else but herself. All that is really happening is she is exposing herself to them and I suspect they are getting some mild entertainment from it all.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again getfree, Maybe it would be worthwhile to let your colleagues know that you prefer them to avoid discussions with your Ex about your prior relationship, just as you assume they would not want you delving into their previous romantic affairs with prior boyfriends or girlfriends.  You could even say, honestly, that you're sure they can understand that it's embarrassing and uncomfortable, and you would like to keep your love life private, or something like that.

My BPDxW did something similar when she threatened several times during our divorce to contact my family members to "set the record straight."  What I did was let relatives know that they might hear from her ranting and raving about me and, if so, to just ignore it.  They got it and some said they would be happy to tell her off, which was nice to hear.

As I previously suggested, listen to those gut feelings!

LuckyJim

[getfree]

Maybe it would be worthwhile to let your colleagues know that you prefer them to avoid discussions with your Ex about your prior relationship, just as you assume they would not want you delving into their previous romantic affairs with prior boyfriends or girlfriends.  You could even say, honestly, that you're sure they can understand that it's embarrassing and uncomfortable, and you would like to keep your love life private, or something like that.
LuckyJim

I had considered doing this but I know they would simply pass this on to her which could lead to other unintended consequences. As once removed mentioned this is poor boundaries on their part: one of my coworker's husband has AvPD so I think she believes herself to be an expert on all things mental health.

I have told them that I don't want to discuss the topic with them at all which they were superficially respectful of. As once removed said I can't stop them talking to my ex and I can't stop them sharing information - hopefully both she and they start getting bored of it eventually.

As I previously suggested, listen to those gut feelings!
LuckyJim

Right you are! This is the first time I have in this situation and I think it will keep me safe. Once I've reached a proper place of indifference then maybe my gut won't be telling me the same thing but for now I just need to keep a comfortable distance. I think my life as improved loads since the end of the relationship and professionally I've had a really great year so this stuff is an annoying fly in the ointment.

[once removed]

the guilt I have

not responding may be a kindness that you can (are) give to her.

i had to cut someone off once. it didnt feel good. the person was looking for more of a friendship than i was willing to have, and pushed. i didnt do what i did to punish them or send a message. i did it for my well being and for theirs. and it might help for you to think of it that way. guilt is sometimes a part of hard choices.

And a new sense of loss.

i wonder if it isnt also jarring to see a side you hadnt seen. that triggered a great deal of ruminating for me, and wondering what my ex was up to.

But I really don't understand how or why engaging my coworkers would achieve anything in reversing this process.

likely for similar reasons that its having an effect on you, it keeps an attachment in place. it may be, for her, a way to remain in denial.

how often is this currently going on? do you know when her last contact was?

[getfree]

not responding may be a kindness that you can (are) give to her.

Thanks once removed - that is a healthy way of looking at it. I figured that if we maintained the relationship (in any way) she would have no incentive to seek help for her issues. What I have learned after the event is that she only seeks out help when things aren't going her way.

i wonder if it isnt also jarring to see a side you hadnt seen. that triggered a great deal of ruminating for me, and wondering what my ex was up to.

Yes this does jar for me. I can't think of a single time we sat down and had a proper heart to heart conversation about anything. She always brought her walls and self-defence with her and the whole thing was a front/game. However with my coworkers (maybe because they are women) they get full disclosure of the issues. For me, the ruminations are about "what could have been" if she'd been a little more open. But in saying that if she was able to do that she would probably be in better control of her emotions etc.

how often is this currently going on? do you know when her last contact was?

Face to face meetings I don't know but the texts/emails is happening at least once every fortnight with at least 2 coworkers. From what I have overheard these two coworkers are organising to meet up with her for coffee after the Easter break.

[once removed]

From what I have overheard these two coworkers are organising to meet up with her for coffee after the Easter break.

thats unfortunate.

i dont know a lot about navigating all of this, but should your coworkers escalate with you, be prepared to go to your higher ups. directly intervening is pretty short of professional.

a good goal seems to me like slowly but effectively making this their problem and not yours both physically and mentally (assuming things dont escalate). staying out of the drama, which you have largely done. clearly, distancing yourself from your coworkers (further if need be, and strictly business when forced). and in general, staying out of the know/not knowing, because what you dont know cant hurt you (that is, unless, you are concerned for your physical safety), and eventually you will stop wondering.

easier said than done, i know.

[getfree]

a good goal seems to me like slowly but effectively making this their problem and not yours both physically and mentally (assuming things dont escalate).

Thanks for this suggestion once removed - I think that might be the way to go, she has clearly become quite dependent on them emotionally and hopefully the dotted line between her and me through them will fade and they will have to deal with the drama on their own.

[getfree]

UPDATE

I was told today by a coworker (who would not reveal her "source" that my ex is telling anyone who will listen that I "dumped" her.

Unbelievable - I am hurtfully discarded, attempt to make it work, am discarded again for trying to set a boundary and go no contact for my own sanity/health and *I* am the person who dumped her?

As suspected she is using what happened to (1) let everyone know we were together (which was kept hush hush before) and (2) get sympathy from anyone who will listen.

I also look like the bad guy who used her and tossed her aside. As anyone who has been discarded by a BPD ex knows this is exactly what happens to the non in most cases!

Once again I am staggered and needed to have a rant to let that off my chest!

getfree

[Lucky Jim]

I also look like the bad guy who used her and tossed her aside. As anyone who has been discarded by a BPD ex knows this is exactly what happens to the non in most cases!

Hey getfree, Sorry to hear.  It's almost guaranteed by the nature of BPD that anyone who parts ways with a pwBPD is bound to be portrayed as the Villain.  Just the way it is w/BPD and there's not much you can do about it, except to be grateful that you are out of the r/s.  The Non is inevitably painted black in the aftermath of a BPD r/s, because the pwBPD has to view it that way in order to avoid taking responsibility for his/her role in the b/u.  My advice: don't participate in the drama.

LuckyJim

[getfree]

Thanks for the support LuckyJim.

It's pretty devastating for me to hear this. It's also pretty manipulative because she's not painting me as a caricature villain but simply that I dumped her and walked away from the life we had.

Nothing could be farther from the truth - I worked almost non-stop for 18 months to make it work and eventually couldn't take the torment and abuse anymore. Somehow she's managed to come out as the innocent party.

This comment from her really annoyed me as well: "he won't talk about it because he's embarrassed about how he behaved... ."

Incorrect - I won't talk about it because it's my own business and its in the past. She's even using my own personality traits to support a completely bogus narrative.

My question now is: does she have any awareness she is doing this or is it a reflex? How can she be in therapy and getting treatment and still running through the BPD textbook?

[once removed]

My question now is: does she have any awareness she is doing this or is it a reflex? How can she be in therapy and getting treatment and still running through the BPD textbook?

its likely what she either needs to believe, and/or truly believes. it is something she needs others to believe.

easier said than done, i know, but let her. its not something within your power to change, and that makes for feelings of great frustration, i know.

if you didnt know what she believed, it probably wouldnt frustrate you. remind this coworker to back off.

[getfree]

Thanks once removed - if I understand you correctly she needs to believe that I dumped her because accepting reality is too painful? And I suppose telling other people this lie helps it to become "fact" for her?

if you didnt know what she believed, it probably wouldnt frustrate you. remind this coworker to back off.

You are right I need to remind my coworkers to back off and not bring it up, perhaps more forcefully going forward. I can't detach and heal if I am being given a running commentary.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, getfree,  As I suggested above, she has to present your breakup to the world in this way because of her disorder.  It's not really an option for her, in my view.  It doesn't matter that what she reports is false, exaggerated, invented, whatever, because you will never convince her otherwise.  I'm sorry that you find yourself in this situation, but it runs with the territory, so-to-speak, and is not unique.  To reiterate my advice: don't participate in the drama and be grateful that you are out of the r/s.  LJ

[once removed]

Thanks once removed - if I understand you correctly she needs to believe that I dumped her because accepting reality is too painful? And I suppose telling other people this lie helps it to become "fact" for her?

it may well be her reality. at the heart of BPD is a tendency to see yourself as a victim. its about world view, and feelings of persecution. its confusing in and of itself, but it is what it is, and understanding "what it is" helps accept it for what it is if that makes sense  

how it feels to have BPD: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=67059.0

[getfree]

Thanks once removed for your words and the link.

This struck me in particular from the article:

3. If others really get to know me, they will find me rejectable and will not be able to love me; and they will leave me.

I think looking back her last emails where she explained her issues (in limited detail) were an attempt at revealing the real her. I didn't respond to this email so she has taken that to be rejection. I think I understand now.

All very contextually convenient and I suspect regardless of circumstances she would have ended up feeling the same way but as you say it is what it is.

The key for me to stop hearing about it all as I am continuing to ruminate over it.

[once removed]

the beliefs are obviously generalized, may be conscious or unconscious, some may or may not apply.

its really about a set of entrenched poor methods of coping. thats what youre observing and dealing with.

radical acceptance is a great tool not only as you learn about BPD, but i find it very freeing to have learned to let go of things i have no control over (and focus on what you do have control over): https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

[getfree]

It's not really an option for her, in my view.  It doesn't matter that what she reports is false, exaggerated, invented, whatever, because you will never convince her otherwise.  

Thanks Lucky Jim, I guess because I know that she has had/is having therapy she would have a limit more insight and would be able to "spot" when she was allowing her disorder to dictate reality - clearly more wishful thinking on my behalf.

To reiterate my advice: don't participate in the drama and be grateful that you are out of the r/s.  

I think her false narrative at least this demonstrates that even with professional support the BPD symptoms reign supreme and there was absolutely no way I could have had anything but a completely dysfunctional and toxic relationship with her - and I am very relieved to be out of the relationship is not yet fully disengaged.

[once removed]

impossible for any of us to know what impact therapy is having on her, but important to know that a lot of DBT is centered around emotional regulation skills and tools.

[getfree]

its really about a set of entrenched poor methods of coping. thats what youre observing and dealing with.

radical acceptance is a great tool not only as you learn about BPD, but i find it very freeing to have learned to let go of things i have no control over (and focus on what you do have control over): https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

Very well put - I think the whole r/s was one of "entrenched poor methods of coping" which is why we ended up where we did. I suppose its a bit silly for me to expect that to have changed in the aftermath.

I have done some reading about radical acceptance before, I think part of my problem has been (for everything rather than this) is that I try to solve problems rather than accept them, even when I cannot fix them.

My ex is a problem I can't fix so I spend too much time ruminating/analyzing to make up for it. It's a bad habit.

impossible for any of us to know what impact therapy is having on her, but important to know that a lot of DBT is centered around emotional regulation skills and tools.

Does this mean that it won't be helping with the "coping methods" part of the problem? She told me she cannot regulate her emotions and is extremely "emotionally vulnerable" so I suspect DBT focuses on these aspects.

[once removed]

we teach DBT skills here like Wisemind, Radical Acceptance, etc. i would certainly argue that the practice/mastery of those skills leads to greater self awareness. we all have blinders, and can make ourselves victims, and a personality disorder is a unique obstacle to self awareness.

radical acceptance, like any of these skills, takes practice. i would bet there have been difficulties in your life that you have had an easier time accepting than others - it helped me to try and draw from that. we can change bad habits and we should; we tend to have our own entrenched methods of coping.

id be frustrated, too. her beliefs are harmless to you. its the actions and what you can and cant do about them that are in your control.

[getfree]

id be frustrated, too. her beliefs are harmless to you. its the actions and what you can and cant do about them that are in your control.

This is true. I know what happened and have greater insight than before (thanks to this forum to a large extent) as to why it happened.

I have to now accept reality for what it is and pay attention, as you say, to the things that I can control. The final step for me to take is to become indifferent to it all and get on with my life