Were you a martyr for love?

[once removed]

“Often the contempt of vainglory becomes a source of even more vainglory, for it is not being scorned when the contempt is something one is proud of.” ― Augustine of Hippo, Confessions

Persecutors, victims, and rescuers. White knights, sirens, and emotional vampires. Heroes and villains.

Our stories, and the ones we tell ourselves and others.

A martyr complex in psychology involves someone who finds themselves in a pattern of suffering and sacrificing in the name of love, whose payoff is feelings of superiority, and elevated self esteem. They will wear their suffering for others as a badge of honor. For the martyr, this dynamic is equated with love itself.

Victim Martyr Complex: bpdfamily.com/topic=114232.0
Test Yourself: bpdfamily.com/topic=142260.0

This dynamic (and belief system) is especially common in codependent relationships. It's an easy trap to fall into, and often subconscious (or unconscious). Certainly, sacrificing for others is not always unhealthy, far from it.

It is, however, a version of a story we often tell ourselves in order to cope.  It's easy for us to see the victim mentality in our exes. It's often not so easy to see or to let go of our own.

"See how much I'm willing to put up with? See how great a partner I am? Man, I sure must love you." "I gave all of that and she abandoned me!" I wouldn't have called myself a martyr though, just "a good boyfriend who was willing to endure for love." In fact it was very easy for me to misapply bible passages to justify my case and persistence. In retrospect, given my relationship history and level of differentiation, it is clear to me how I got to that point; how I was in fact victimizing myself, and avoiding taking responsibility for my life, and in many cases, how I simply needed to learn the differences between healthy and unhealthy, how to better love myself, and be truly open and emotionally available to the love of others.

For who else does this ring some uncomfortable bells, and how we do talk ourselves off the cross?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey once removed, Sure, I told myself that it was noble to be so committed to my BPDxW.  "For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer . . . ."  By care-taking a pwBPD, I avoided caring for myself and likewise avoided taking responsibility for my own life, as you note.  While loyalty may be noble, I came to see that it was misplaced in a BPD r/s.  Why was I so loyal to a persecutor?  Presumably because I had low self-esteem, poor boundaries and had lost myself in the throes of a BPD r/s.  I didn't love myself enough, I think, which is how I allowed myself to become the object of someone else's abuse.  No more; I care too much about myself these days.

LuckyJim

[heartandwhole]

It certainly rings bells for me. I think in some instances I was a martyr, at least in that I was the one who was reacting to all the crises in a better and more mature way than pwBPD.   Hello. Really?

I contributed to the unhealthy dynamics just as much as he did:

• I tried to be the "perfect" partner = I shoved aside what I wanted and needed in order to win/earn pwBPD's love and keep him attached to me. That image I had of being such an understanding and caring partner also made me feel better about myself.
• I avoided taking responsibility for my life = I bought into his dream and hoped that it would take me away from the stagnation I was feeling and help me avoid decisions that would bring more joy and aliveness into my life. I thought, "If only he would change/get better/stop doing X,Y, Z, things would work out."
• I sacrificed what I wanted and needed and prioritized pwBPD's wants and needs, because I thought that meeting his needs would be the best way to meet my own = As a child, that was a smart thing to do, as I was completely dependent on my parents. As an adult, it was dysfunctional and brought me pain.

I got myself off the cross through a kind of act of grace, I think. Suddenly, I saw the reality of what was going on. I saw the pattern both in pwBPD and myself. I didn't believe the story/fantasy anymore and that was the moment I was free from continuing the cycle— with that person.

The last part of that sentence above keeps me humble and knowing that this is an entrenched, learned way of coping that will undoubtedly rear its head in certain relationships and/or situations. But I'm okay with that because I know that I can see it, survive it, act differently, and continue to grow. 

Thanks for letting me share, once removed. This is a very interesting exercise.

heartandwhole

[vortex of confusion]

This definitely rings some very uncomfortable bells for me. I can really relate to what heartandwhole says.

-I tried so hard to be the perfect wife even if that meant putting all of my wants and needs aside. I was so caught up in being the perfect wife that I sacrificed myself. For a while, I thought it was noble. At some point, I woke up and realized that I don't care if I am the perfect wife. I have needs. I am a human being. I decided that I couldn't spend the rest of my life chasing after some pipe dream that doesn't exist. I sunk pretty low before I woke up and said no more. At first, I started trying to get my needs met and take care of myself. When my attempts at self care made things worse, it became apparent that the best choice I could make was to end the relationship.

-Yep, I bought into his fantasies. I let him talk me out of things and dismiss things that I wanted. I went along with him because it was easier to blame him than it was to stand up and fight and take responsibility.

-I too had this notion that all I had to do was figure out how to make him happy. If I could make him happy, then I would be happy because then he would stop the moping and checking out and whatever else it was he was doing. As I child, I learned how to be the happy go lucky one that didn't cause trouble. If somebody was sad, I cheered them up or sat with them or did whatever I could to help them. It made my life so much easier as a kid. As an adult, it became burdensome because I wasn't always happy. As an adult, I wanted somebody to be there for ME. When ex wasn't there for me or dismissed me, I bought into the story that perhaps I didn't really want or need anybody and that I was just being selfish. SELF CARE IS NOT SELFISH. That is one of the biggest lessons I have had to learn.

One of the things that woke me up is the fact that I realized that I was starting to sound like my mother. She has been with my dad for almost 50 years and I have spent most of my life hearing her go on and on about my dad and how he doesn't love her. She is a great martyr for love and will accept just about anything and then whine about it and wallow in her own victimhood. When I realized that I was starting to say and do the same things, I was like, "Whoa, no way! I do NOT want to be 60 some years old and be miserable and unhappy." The picture of marriage that I saw growing up was anything but healthy. I want more for myself and I want to set a better example for my kids so they don't grow up thinking that being in a relationship is all about sacrificing oneself in unhealthy ways.

[Lucky Jim]

I sacrificed what I wanted and needed and prioritized pwBPD's wants and needs, because I thought that meeting his needs would be the best way to meet my own = As a child, that was a smart thing to do, as I was completely dependent on my parents. As an adult, it was dysfunctional and brought me pain.

Well said, h&w.  I did the same.  This seems like a common dynamic in a BPD r/s: the Non trying to please the pwBPD in codependent fashion, walking on eggshells.

-I too had this notion that all I had to do was figure out how to make him happy. If I could make him happy, then I would be happy because then he would stop the moping and checking out and whatever else it was he was doing.

Agree, voc.  I had this fantasy that, if I jumped through enough hoops, we would reach a plateau of emotional stability in our marriage.  It was a mirage that we never attained.

LuckyJim

[marti644]

I can relate to pretty much 100% of what heartandwhole, LuckyJim, and VoC said.

I too had these care-taker tendencies to ignore my own issues and things I needed to look after within myself. The biblical reference "turn the other cheek" was always on my mind when I settled for behaviour and abuse instead of protecting myself.

My BPD relationship brought this to light and has shaken me out of the pattern.

Hopefully this is stopped for good, although I echo heartandwhole that this will be difficult to do because of the coping mechanisms I also had as a child with an extremely unhappy, waif-like mother.

I was so selfish in my relationship with my BPD-ex and I am ashamed of the fact that I think she knew this and this is one of the reasons she discarded me. And putting aside her mental health issues, she should have left me, I wasn't in the relationship for the right reasons I see now, even though my intentions were good. Any mentally healthy person would have left me sooner, so I need to work on my low self-esteem and martyrdom complex before I can be with a partner that I can have a stable romantic relationship with. Trying to defuse my co-dependent patterns is what I am really trying to work on now.

Great post Onceremoved, really got me thinking.

[GuySmiley]

I can relate 100% to everything on here.

I approached my relationships along the lines that if it's painful and it's not really what I want but it's what you want then I'm happy to let you be happy and have your own way - see? That means I really love you!

What an idiot. My whole 20s and 30s spent on two girls (both needing 'saving' - or so I thought/felt - for wildly different reasons) continually putting their needs and feelings ahead of my own, as I thought that's what you did if you loved someone.

Trouble is, now I've identified that trait in me, I've done a complete 180 where I refuse to budge an inch for anyone unless they show willing first.

[marti644]

What an idiot. My whole 20s and 30s spent on two girls (both needing 'saving' - or so I thought/felt - for wildly different reasons) continually putting their needs and feelings ahead of my own, as I thought that's what you did if you loved someone.

Trouble is, now I've identified that trait in me, I've done a complete 180 where I refuse to budge an inch for anyone unless they show willing first.

This is exactly as I feel. I spent the last 12 years thinking that someone putting their feelings and needs ahead of my own was totally normal and healthy. What a waste of time, although I am grateful now to be free for the rest of my life to choose a better partner, or just be alone if that is what it takes to be happy.

[stimpy]

Trouble is, now I've identified that trait in me, I've done a complete 180 where I refuse to budge an inch for anyone unless they show willing first.

This is a very insightful comment and one that I am struggling with myself now. I am now super conscious in friendships and other relationships who is the active player (stating their needs and wants) and who is the passive player (agreeing to the others needs and wants without stating their own). It is a very telling dynamic and one that reveals a lot about who people are. I have two very good friends one who is active - she always contacts me and says what she wants to do and really won't budge or listen to me, and another who is the complete reverse. I always have to contact her first and say what we are going to do, and she always agrees and never states what she wants to do, even when I ask her. So I guess I flex to both people. Does that make me co-dependent or does that make me a decent guy who can read other people's behaviours and wants to keep these two friendships alive and not to lose them? Both these people are good people and have been very helpful and supportive to me and they make my life better. Is it that by KNOWING what is going on, that I am avoiding the trap of being co-dependent or I am deluding myself?

My ex who will be 52 years old now, had abusive relationships in her younger years, and as a kid as well. So I question myself sometimes about why her behaviour was so self centred. Is it engrained (BPD) or has she had to change from maybe being co-dependent and do the 180 as well - and by doing this has set boundaries that are inflexible and which actually for me were very hurtful? In other words, as a consequence of the abuse heaped on her, has she learnt to only look after herself and so has become so boundaried that she doesn't take the needs of others into account?

So, sometimes I ask myself, does she really have BPD, or has she simply learnt survival techniques that in a relationship become dysfunctional. Or is that what BPD actually is? I suppose I will never know.

As others have said on here though, the point is not the diagnosis, I can't diagnose her, but rather that her behaviour was hurtful and toxic.

Point is, with BPD, it is engrained and wired (from what I've read and understood) and virtually impossible to change or unlearn (DBT looks into improving behaviour, not changing the underlying emotional issues) , whereas consciously and knowingly learning survival techniques and boundaries in your 20s or 30s as a consequence of being in an abusive relationship can by its very definition be unlearnt or amended and changed and adapted.

Should I go back to my ex and try and find out?

[Aesir]

I believe that I thought by being a good SO and trying to fix our relationship I was proving a good worthwhile person. I neglected my own emotional needs while I focused on hers. At the same time her behavior was damaging mentally and emotionally. I truly thought I was the knight and shining armor. I was such a FOOL back then.

[jhkbuzz]

What's interesting to me as I read this is that I agree with much of what is being said here - I subjugated a lot of my needs as the r/s went on (8 years in total). So much so, in fact, that when I got into therapy and my therapist would ask me what I needed or wanted in certain situations, I honestly didn't know, I was that out of touch with my needs.

But here's the strange part - I bet my ex would also say that, in many ways, she sacrificed what she needed in order to be in a r/s with me. And she wouldn't be lying.

The difference is the timing, I think. She did it more in the beginning years of the r/s because she soo wanted the r/s to work - and I didn't always realized she was doing it. I did it more towards the ending years when things were falling apart.

?

[Lucky Jim]

I believe that I thought by being a good SO and trying to fix our relationship I was proving a good worthwhile person. I neglected my own emotional needs while I focused on hers. At the same time her behavior was damaging mentally and emotionally. I truly thought I was the knight and shining armor. I was such a FOOL back then.

Aesir: I wouldn't describe you as a fool back then; instead, I would suggest that, like me, you were naive.  Who doesn't want to be a knight in shining armor?  It feels good, until we realize that it's an unhealthy dynamic when one is the object of someone's abuse.  Plus, I think most of us Nons tend to be fixers, as you note, because we think we're demonstrating our worth by fixing.  It seems like a positive, yet it's really a negative when you're doing the fixing to get approval from someone else.  I should know: I was a fixer, too.  LJ

[Turkish]

In the beginning,  she was honest about not being over a previous bf. It was almost like a dare.  Of course,  the constant texting didn't help,  but I didn't have to answer.  

I think the events which contributed to our first break up were mostly on me.  I argued with the store manager at the local auto shop chain who wanted to charge her about $2000 to repair her car,  when it was really due to a faulty part they installed which failed.  They ended up eating the repair cost.  It also pissed me off they were trying to take advantage of her because she was a woman.

Nothing was different about our r/s dynamic, but I thought,  "I just saved her a lot of money which she couldn't afford,  yet she still treats me like this?" That wasn't the point.  People should treat each other well regardless of how they act or what they do.  My mistake was thinking it would make a difference or change her.

5 years later,  at the end,  I pulled out the same things,  some I told her.  A house in the most expensive market in the country,  financial stability, safety, KIDS. No matter. 

Doing things (acts), can certainly trigger reactions (also acts), but they don't change who people are, neither the other party nor us.

[cubicinch]

I don't think this applies to me, I'm just someone who has been brought up in an environment of a disordered parental marriage, so it's what I grew up with as seeing to be normal. I'm also a creative person, so I'm drawn to people who are seen as possibly a bit quirky or different. Vanilla has never cut it for me, but that's why I've ended up here. And it's taken me half a lifetime to realise what I am, and where I've gone wrong. I dip in and out of relationships because I always get it wrong, indeed the last one was 100% BPD psychotic, but it took me only months, maybe even weeks to see the flags that something was seriously wrong behind the act this person put on. So I am learning and improving.

I've never really felt like I had to be with this person and be a white knight to justify myself in some way; I've always been with them because of attraction first and foremost, although I admit, I have thought previously that if I just give this person some normality, then hopefully they will sort themselves out, but that has never happened. As a caring person I have sympathy, and don't always take care of myself foremost. There is also the fact that to a degree you have to be open in a relationship, you have to show care to your partner, you can't be too cold or that wont work obviously. You have to strike a balance which is the hard thing, especially after going through experiences. Once that balance is lost, then it becomes toxic. I've allowed my heart to rule my head in the past, love is a strong emotion. The recent brush with BPD has taught me many things about myself.

I've found only a few months into a rs with BPDx I was jumping through hoops and egg shells etc etc, but very quickly saw that it was wrong and this person was controlling me. To a degree, I don't mind being lead or even being inspired by a person, but when you start to see it is overpowering, and even a game to them, then you have to step away.

[jambley]

I was also often jumping through eggshells and walking on hoops.

[once removed]

thanks for sharing, all. as uncomfortable as it can be to stand and admit this stuff to ourselves and others, i think its ultimately very freeing.

"For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer . . . ."

"turn the other cheek"

love is patient, love is kind... .

these and many others. it was an awkward place for me to be: on one hand believing i deserved better, and the other, believing that i needed to be more patient, and endure. so i guess a great deal of my energy was spent in changing my partner, for her to be what i "deserved". what seems unfair to her, is that she seemed to mirror that sentiment for the first half of our relationship; that she needed to be better in order to be good enough for me. thats a powerful hook for the martyr. of course when she began to suggest that the issue was me, i closed my eyes and put my fingers in my ears.

it wasnt the first time. another relationship was spent trying to change myself, so that my partner would ultimately see how great i really was, which i suppose doesnt make a tremendous amount of sense.

i still believe in self sacrifice for others. i still believe in cases of putting others before myself. doing so does make me feel good about me. these arent just biblical concepts. its why we do things like volunteer work, why we hold the door open for others. why we take time out to be a shoulder for a friend to cry on.

i now believe in doing so with boundaries (also a biblical concept). knowing where i end and another person begins. not being attached to the outcomes of others. not manipulating others toward what i believe is best for them or me. being aware of my tendency(ies) to be drawn to certain kinds of "drama". sometimes it is a kinder, gentler act, to love someone from afar.

I am grateful now to be free for the rest of my life to choose a better partner

Trouble is, now I've identified that trait in me, I've done a complete 180 where I refuse to budge an inch for anyone unless they show willing first.

i think these traits and tendencies are more about us and whether we will be better partners. in effect, we are still saying our goodness was wasted on people that didnt deserve it, and that our goodness should be given to someone who appreciates it.

there maybe truth in there, but i think it misses the point; that these traits and tendencies led us to dysfunctional relationships, not the other way around. these tendencies can be a self fulfilling prophecy - to find emotionally unavailable partners, and for that dynamic to feel "right". the fantasy.

180s or extreme changes wont solve this. why? at the heart of seeing ourselves as martyrs, is seeing ourselves as victims. fear and hypervigilance overlap with victimhood, and i say that in a neutral sense - its natural, coming out of these relationships, to be fearful of ourselves and others. we want to heal, learn, make changes, but go forward building trust with ourselves and others. we want to be able to be confident in asserting our needs, meetings others needs, being vulnerable, and allowing others to be vulnerable with us.

I didn't believe the story/fantasy anymore and that was the moment I was free from continuing the cycle— with that person.

The last part of that sentence above keeps me humble and knowing that this is an entrenched, learned way of coping that will undoubtedly rear its head in certain relationships and/or situations. But I'm okay with that because I know that I can see it, survive it, act differently, and continue to grow.  

i think that is the crux: that for many of us, this is an entrenched, learned way of coping. the good news is that to a large extent, we can unlearn some of these behaviors and tendencies; that wont stop them from rearing their head from time to time, but we are now out of excuses, and self aware when they do.

[marti644]

i think these traits and tendencies are more about us and whether we will be better partners. in effect, we are still saying our goodness was wasted on people that didnt deserve it, and that our goodness should be given to someone who appreciates it.

there maybe truth in there, but i think it misses the point; that these traits and tendencies led us to dysfunctional relationships, not the other way around. these tendencies can be a self fulfilling prophecy - to find emotionally unavailable partners, and for that dynamic to feel "right". the fantasy.

Once removed,

As always a very insightful post. My apologies, I didn't mean in the quote you provided from me that my BPD-ex didn't deserve me and that all my efforts on her were wasted.

I loved her very much with all her flaws and she chose to leave, even with my best efforts. Even after everything I still have fond memories of her, she is not a monster, although I would never be with someone who did the things she did to me again; I have more respect for myself now.

But I do deserve better and just as important, so does she. Regardless of the things she did I still have to take responsibility for my actions. If I was the man I am today (and am becoming) I would be more deserving of a meaningful healthy relationship and our relationship would have been healthier to begin with.

You are quite correct that my own traits and tendencies to glorify the "perfect" relationship were what led me down the road to disordered relationships. And I agree I need to be a much better partner. Much much better and less selfish with my fantasy. This fantasy goes back in my childhood, to my parents image of their relationship, which in public was perfect and in private was an unmitigated disaster.

Working on how to separate the reality and the fantasy, no easy task!

[once removed]

This fantasy goes back in my childhood

very interesting. our parents are our earliest models of relationships, and whether healthy or unhealthy, we learn a great deal from their dynamics, and we tend to adopt certain roles, to lesser or greater degrees.

for how many was this the case?

[cubicinch]

my father was diagnosed with PD, schizophrenia and clinical depression in the early 80s. My mother is a stalwart caretaker. I grew up with this dynamic and have only ever had dysfunctional relationships; I may never have a proper partner or feel the love that some people seem to find. I've dated (or tried) just about everything, PD, eating disordered, depressed, psychotic, although I've never intentionally set out to find that, it seems to find me. I'm trying to rescue my life now before it's too late.

[Swhitey]

I admit, I have thought previously that if I just give this person some normality, then hopefully they will sort themselves out, but that has never happened.

I can identify with so many things people are posting here, this is a really good topic. This particular comment spoke to me greatly, as my ex's life was wrought with chaos right from the get go (red flag for me). I would think to myself that I could show her a normal life with no chaos and she would love me for it. At first she played along too. In hindsight, we were a perfect match for each other at the time. She needed saving and I needed someone to validate that I was a good person. She presented herself a victim and I presented myself as a savior. And so the dance begun.

It took someone like her, through her actions & her behaviors, to bring to the the surface, to make me aware, of something that was buried deep in me that was in my blind spot. A feeling that has niggled throughout all my relationships in the past. It is an extremely bitter pill to swallow (having co-dependent behaviors) and to acknowledge that, I too, was just as dysfunctional in relationships as she is. No better, no worse. Glad that I can name it and have something to "fix" if you will (the only person I can fix, is me after all). It is much easier to see all this, now being removed from the chaos, and I have a plan with group and individual therapy for recovery that I am actively participating in.

[Lucky Jim]

Like what you're sayin' Swhitey.  Right, something in us Nons -- usually codependency -- makes us particularly susceptible to the BPD dynamic.  You could say that we suffer from naivete, in the sense that we are often blind to the red flags. Yet a BPD r/s provides a crucible for personal growth, in my view.  It's a painful process that leads to greater happiness, which is what it's all about, right?

LuckyJim

[Swhitey]

So right Lucky Jim, It took me almost 40 years to reach this point, to acknowledge my own pain, feelings of inadequacy, and helplessness. I don't want to run from it anymore because it will just follow me wherever I go. It is a prison and only I have the key to release myself, or maybe the door has always been open, and I've been too afraid to walk out the door?

What I've learned, and anyone is free to disagree, that BPD, PTSD, CPTSD, Codependency, NPD mostly all stem from the trauma of unmet childhood needs and how they manifest themselves in adult relationships. We were both adult children acting out our own unmet needs. Learned behaviors we developed at a very vulnerable age, to cope with the dysfunctional and traumatic homes we grew up in. A lot of the therapies that people suggest for those who exhibit, and suffer from, traits of BPD can also greatly benefit from those same therapies for their own healing.

Just my two cents  

[Roselee]

Wow... .this is all so interesting!  And sadly yes, I too can relate!

I think because I was always accused of never doing anything for him. It gave me guilt to put up with his abuse. He did a lot of physical things for me, fixed my daughter's cars, helped with repairs in my house etc. And I will always be grateful for that.  But then the time would always seem to come up, when he would say "all the things I do for you, and what do you do for me?... .Not a damn thing!" When in reality, I could never do anything "physical" to help him, because then I would be told I was doing it wrong. So, therefore, I put up with everything else. Because I thought, I owed it to him.

I tip-toed around him, and no longer had an opinion on things... .whatever he wanted was fine with me. Holidays would give me such anxiety, because I had to juggle my daughters wishes in there too.

In the end, I remember my daughter asking me straight out... ."Mom, what do you want? Do you want to be with him?" And I completely went blank.  I had no idea what I wanted any longer.  I spent almost 6 years, trying to keep him happy, to no avail... .that I just didn't know anything anymore.  

I never thought of myself as being co-dependent... .always just as someone who put others needs ahead of my own.  I thought I was a strong woman for being able to do so. Where is the line that you draw on that?

[Swhitey]

I never thought of myself as being co-dependent... .always just as someone who put others needs ahead of my own.  I thought I was a strong woman for being able to do so. Where is the line that you draw on that?

I know what you mean, it always seemed noble to sacrifice my needs in the name of love. I was meeting someones else's needs because I was brought up to believe that my needs were not as important as my caregiver's needs as was modeled to me by my parents and their interactions. My mom suffered many mental health issues and was not ready to be a mom. I was constantly told by my mom I was a selfish child, and felt that expressing my needs was a selfish, bad act. (really it was my mom being selfish and projecting on to me) I watched my dad make everything about my mom, He was trying to keep her alive as she was anorexic, bulimic, and depressed. and my mom responded to this. This is what was modeled to me as a child and I learned to survive with my mom in this fashion to feel safe. So... .as an adult this is how I acted in my relationships and I would have continued to behave this way, I think, if I had not met, my now, exgf.

There is a fine line between helping someone and care taking. If I want to be a caretaker I will become a nurse. There is nothing wrong with wanting to help people, It is noble to help people. It becomes a problem when you sacrifice yourself to help someone who must help themselves.

[vortex of confusion]

very interesting. our parents are our earliest models of relationships, and whether healthy or unhealthy, we learn a great deal from their dynamics, and we tend to adopt certain roles, to lesser or greater degrees.

for how many was this the case?

This was definitely the case for me. My parents have had a toxic relationship for as far back as I can remember. Mom put up with all kinds of horrible behavior from dad. Dad put up with all kinds of toxic behavior from mom. I can't even begin to figure out which one was more toxic. Mom was and is very much a martyr with zero boundaries. Dad is emotionally unavailable. He has tried to leave mom several times over the years. One of the times he left, he ended up going back to her because she wouldn't leave him alone. She would call me and say all kinds of horrible stuff about him yet when anybody drove by where my dad was staying, she would be there.

When I started seeing things that were off with ex, I would try to talk to my mom about it (bad idea) and she would tell me that I should be grateful for this or that. I should be happy that he was only doing <fill in the blank> rather than the stuff that my dad did to her. I think it was last week or the week before when she and I were talking and she started going on about me taking ex back and how maybe he would get his head on straight. It might take a year or two though. And then she proceeded to tell me how dad beat her when they were first married and how she always took him back and that they are going to be celebrating 50 years of marriage soon.   

In some ways, what I had with ex seemed like light years better than what my parents had/have. The problem is that I knew it wasn't healthy or okay yet trying to do anything about it felt impossible because I felt like trying to do anything different was selfish. I felt like it was my duty as his wife to sacrifice for him and take care of him. I had the idea that I was supposed to stand by my man at all costs no matter what because after all "he's just a man" and needed me to take care of him.

[Lucky Jim]

I never thought of myself as being co-dependent... .always just as someone who put others needs ahead of my own.  I thought I was a strong woman for being able to do so. Where is the line that you draw on that?

Hey Roselee, The line, I suggest, is the difference between caring about someone and care-taking someone, as Swhitey notes.  The former is compassionate; the latter is codependent.  Doing something for another adult that he/she can readily do for himself/herself, I submit, is at the core of codependency and creates an unhealthy dynamic for both the care giver and the care recipient.  Often this is the dynamic of a BPD r/s.  It took me a long time to grasp that first and foremost I need to care for myself.  Caring for another may seem noble, but is usually involves denying self-care, something we Nons are good at!

LuckyJim

[once removed]

when my parents fought, it could get pretty loud and heated.

often times, afterward, my dad would bag on my mom in front of me. i recall it coming up between my mother and i at least once, and her trying to strike a balance between not bagging on him, and telling me it was wrong to do.

id listen to their fights. i didnt typically come to anyones rescue (i did get pretty upset during some vacation fights), but i did often start reasoning with one or both of them in my head. i came to see my mother as the "good one" when theyd fight, generally.

i never felt ive "dated" either of my parents as they say, but my ex and i tended to fight a lot like my parents. my mother once mentioned that sometimes we sounded like we were fighting when we werent - something that they were also accused of.

i always felt i grew up with a pretty good picture of a healthy and loving relationship; i still do. regardless, we tend to develop with the idea that our family dynamics are "normal" and they become our normal. our normal may not always be healthy, and thats one of the hardest things to both see, and to accept.


as "martyrs", how many of us took pity on our partners, particularly when they asked for our forgiveness? how many struggled with guilt at the prospect of rejecting them?

[Swhitey]

as "martyrs", how many of us took pity on our partners, particularly when they asked for our forgiveness? how many struggled with guilt at the prospect of rejecting them?

Good question, something to investigate more... .I think I did pity her in some ways when she would become dysregulated. She was very good at blaming and making excuses for the terrible things that had and were perceived to be happening to her, even after that blame and shame was being projected onto me. I believed those excuses and bought into them, hook line and sinker. I promised her I would not abandon her, early on in the relationship, after she confided to me that her entire family abandoned her after her suicide attempt. I wrestle with the guilt of failing to keep that promise, only after she cast me out. I am still coming to terms that abandoning her (NC) is vital to my survival now, for my rebuilding, and for dealing with my own past traumatic events that have shaped my behaviors in romantic relationships.

[blueblue12]

This posting resonates with me as well. I did everything possible for my ex wife. I spent ten years with her basically looking after her every need. I felt so bad for her, in terms of her childhood that I would have tears constantly when thinking about it. I would look at her and feel so bad for her. So my time with her was basically making sure that I was the best companion ever. All her previous relationships lasted months, the longest was one year. I should have thought about that a bit more! Never did.

As the years went by she became more difficult. The arguments would flare up and I would get caught trying to defend myself. I use to always wonder how did this one started again? Often I couldn't not figure it out. I had no idea about BPD. She did hint a few times about people of her kind of background (abused as a child) tended to sabotage things. I didn't get that these were the red flags clearly enough!

Even when she decided that we should separate while still living together for the year I still tried to do and be my best. I was trying to fix things, walking on egg shells and taking daily abuse. It was hell. But somehow in my head I thought I brought all this one and kept trying and trying. She was continuously telling me it was all my fault, I was controlling, insecure, etc... .stuff that I now read in this forum continuously. Somehow there was nothing wrong with her.

Even to the last day before she left on a trip I was trying my best. I was pretty dumb when I realise the horrible treatment I received. She even had a replacement which she never told me about until it also went horribly wrong. Which is the next chapter that after been away from each other for three months and me on NC, she started hounding me as I was the best person in the world, we had to get back together, we should start from scratch, she had missed me so much, etc, etc... .

[cubicinch]

I'm so touched by the open and honest stories being posted here, by those of you who had so much more involvement with BPD partners than my brief encounter. I'm humbled by your experiences and what you've been through.

I cared deeply for my exBPDgf, and I always will. Despite all. Many times you just think I want to hug that person I care so deeply about so tightly, and connect in a way that maybe they can't comprehend, truly, madly and deeply, enough to feel their troubled inner self just let go, and give them self to me; open up, accept my love and let those barriers fall. But, alas, this never happens. They carry on, martyrs to themselves.