Friends without "Benefits" - advice needed

[chillamom]

Hi, all,

With all the talk of recycles and friends with (dubious) benefits and so forth over the past several days, I am starting to think that there is something to this "Spring Fever" thing... .I have been LC (NOT NC) with my diagnosed BPD/NPD ex since December.  I have only seen him twice during the intervening period, and have not seem him at all since late February.  However, he is in near constant contact with my via phone, text, FB private message, and lastly email if I block him from those outlets (which I do when it is overwhelming.  I mean, I have to work and sleep).

There is no chance of us getting back together after an 8 year relationship, even though he has not replaced me (to my knowledge) and is very much trying to recycle the relationship.  I have stood firm on that matter, but I do respond to his messages as empathically and kindly as I can (until he starts getting abusive, then on the good days I hang up and shamefully on the bad days I yell back... .)

His theme right now is "I just want to get along".  I have told him how distraught I was for so many years by his consistently emotionally and verbally abusive behavior, and he is obsessed with the idea of me not seeing him as a "bad person", which I don't. Ive spent enough time in these parts to know that BPD is a shame based disorder, and he cannot admit to himself how badly he treated me.  He often gets very upset that if he hadn't been "angry at times" then I wouldn't have left him.  I told him this wasn't true, because there were other MAJOR deal breakers as well, but I think we could have amicably agreed upon things if BPD/NPD hadn't been part of the picture.  I certainly forgive him and have told him so.

Anyway, he is relentlessly asking me to come see him and just have lunch with him.  He literally has NO friends, no job, and a lousy home situation (at 31 still lives with parents - and to see them is to understand how his personality disorder came about).  I am feeling very sympathetic and very vulnerable.  Yes, I am still attached to him and still care deeply for him and still find him very attractive.  I have been seeing a T and working on my codependency, and am pretty sure I can resist what will probably be the inevitable advances.

However, I don't really want to go.  I want to keep myself emotionally safe.  On the other hand, I am terribly worried about him and maybe seeing him once a week or so to allow him to feel that someone cares would be helpful to him.  My friends tell me it's an awful idea, and would just give him false hope that I am interested in a recycle, which I will NOT do despite my feelings. (been there and done that as many others have, oh, about 10 times... .).

What do you think I should do?  See him to offer him some solace and JUST friendship?  Or stay the heck away and keep working on my own detachment and recovery?  I really don't feel myself  "slipping" like I have in the past, but I know that even thinking about seeing him as a friend indicates that my own detachment is shaky at best.  Any advice is appreciated, and thank you!

[FSTL]

Have you considered whether it is kinder to let him find his own way, without you as his crutch?

I have found with my BPDx that soothing her feelings is possibly enabling her illness, so I do everything I can to not feed her feelings (eg by not responding to messages same day, and to try and let her work things out for herself).

It's hard letting someone you know suffer like they do, but it might also help them move on if they are forced to look after themselves.

[roberto516]

What do you think I should do?  See him to offer him some solace and JUST friendship?  Or stay the heck away and keep working on my own detachment and recovery?  I really don't feel myself  "slipping" like I have in the past, but I know that even thinking about seeing him as a friend indicates that my own detachment is shaky at best.  Any advice is appreciated, and thank you!

When the recycle started I was in the same boat. I was just there to be supportive. Then I started to ask what her intentions were with me and she said we should try again. Then like that I was discarded. I only came back because she was incessant with talking to me and needing my support. So this all happened because I thought I was just being a nice guy. She was definitely helping me fill my own insecurities but had I said no it would have went completely different and better for me. So I wouldn't based on my own very fresh experience.

[Rayban]

If you don't have kids with him, you don't owe him squat.  I get that you care for him, maybe miss him, but you have to remember the abuse this person put you through.  Why in the world would you want to be friends with him? He's a grown man don't take his difficiencies on your shoulders.  As long as you keep replying, even if it's sporadic, he'll continue to bother you.

[chillamom]

Hi, FSTL,
My T and friends/family etc. have pointed out that I am essentially enabling him to remain stuck in whatever it is he is stuck in. Of course he refuses to accept the diagnosis he has been given by several professionals, and instead of sincerely trying to get some meaningful help and work on things, he continues to see a T who just nods at him and reflects his feelings, so its not a surprise that he hasn't made progress.  I just have to get over the idea that it's cruel to ignore his pleas for help (and sometimes I literally have 20 messages left for me that are all variants of crying and screaming).  I guess, like the 80's song states, sometimes one has to be "cruel to be kind", because I do think this is keeping him holding on even though I've made myself quite clear.  Thanks for your comments!

[chillamom]

roberto516,

I read your recent tale as well, and my heart goes out to you.  How treacherous this path of being a "nice person" can be!  I don't believe for one minute that my ex is interested in "just getting along", and I need to muster the strength to NOT see him and expect that he wants a mere friendship. I'm still too attached and hurt to offer a friendship anyway.  It's interesting that if we put ourselves first and didn't have a vested interest in "helping" everyone that this would be unlikely to happen.  I'm a psychologist (research/academic) but the "helping" tendency is still in my blood.  The lesson is all of this is self care, and I'm obviously not a good student.  Thank you for your comments, and I hope you are doing well and will never find yourself in a similar position again!

[chillamom]

Rayban,

I really like your forthright comments, thank you.  You are right in that I really owe him nothing, he had nearly a decade of my life and at this point I want to stamp my feet and say "no more!"  It's really hard for me to see him as manipulative because he appears so lost, and has always been that way, but I have to harden my heart here, because any attempt at friendship is going to 1) hurt me, 2) not be an attempt at "friendship" at all, and 3) probably set him back as well.  I have to steel myself and learn not to reply, but every time I try to do the NC thing, I become a big sad marshmallow and allow myself to be taken in by the pleas and the tears.  Thanks for your common sense, I have to cultivate some.

[drained1996]

Hi chillamom,

I'm sorry to see you are still struggling with your situation and I personally understand the difficulties of letting go.  I'll ask, what positive life enhancements does this relationship offer you for the efforts you put forward?

[FSTL]

because I do think this is keeping him holding on even though I've made myself quite clear. 

My BPD has very mild symptons compared to yours. But when she does want to connect, she really ramps things up and becomes quite anxious. She is seeing a therapist, which is helping in some respects, although she still has a very long way to go. She is working on self soothing and seems to be getting better at it (or at least understands she does), so I eg no longer get 2am calls, or her reaching out because she is feeling anxious/depressed.

The key point is she is doing it... .all I could do was encourage her to start therapy and move forward with someone else who could professionally help her.

[chillamom]

Hi, drained1996,

Thanks for responding, and yes, I feel pretty pathetic considering I've been in the process of detaching/recycling/detaching and being on this board for 3 years now.  Im ashamed of myself really.  It's been 4 months now out of the relationship so I'm doing better, but all it takes is the "please help me" from him and the rescuer in me is reactivated, although I am resisting... .in terms of what positive elements this adds to my own life, the answer is virtually none.  It IS nice to feel needed and wanted, although the  price I would pay for that is far too damn high and I can find validation within myself (or try to). 

It's that damn old guilt that keeps getting to me - because of course he blames me for the fact that his life is a mess, that he can't find a job even with a newly minted MS degree in CompSci, that he has no friends left, etc.etc.  At least at this point the defogger () has kicked in enough that I don't really believe that.  But GEEZ.  It's 9 damn years ago next week that I met him... .8 years of therapy trying to deal with him/make it work/detach given the phase of the moon the relationship was in, and just untold chaos and crap.  STILL I can't cut off contact completely because I feel too guilty... .and there is a lingering fear that he will come to hurt me if I do.  Got a 7 on the Mosaic threat assessment scale and I'm scared but I guess not scared enough.

Your question was a good one and thank you, and I hope things are going well with you... .

[chillamom]

Hi, FSTL,
I'm glad your BPD person is seeing a T and hopefully making some progress.  It is certainly heartening that she is trying at least, although given the article that was posted on here last night about how "minimal" progress can be, it seems like a long road, doesn't it?  I would think that a sincere desire to change is a big part of the battle for her, and I hope she can find her way out of the forest.  It sounds like she's doing better to the extent that she is no longer drawing you into the drama regularly, and that's a blessed thing.  I hope it happens in my ex's case as well, although he shows no desire to change because there's absolutely nothing wrong with him.  (numerous hospitalizations, dozens of therapists, and NOTHING wrong with him, it's everyone else.  That's the NPD portion of his diagnosis coming to the fore, I guess).

[FSTL]

I'm doing better, but all it takes is the "please help me" from him and the rescuer in me is reactivated, although I am resisting... .in terms of what positive elements this adds to my own life, the answer is virtually none.  It IS nice to feel needed and wanted, although the  price I would pay for that is far too damn high and I can find validation within myself (or try to). 

It's that damn old guilt that keeps getting to me - because of course he blames me for the fact that his life is a mess

I can identify with all of this... .I am trying super LC (we work together). I know she is under a lot of stress and today I ran into her in the stairwell. She just glared at me and said nothing and kept walking.

Either she was blaming me for something wrong in her life or was looking upset so I would console her. I considered it a huge victory (for me) that I simply let her go and didn't rise to her mood. It took some concentration not to try and rescue/help her from whatever was going on in her head... .

[drained1996]

Things are going well my way chillamom... .thanks for asking.  
Simple observation... .you stated fear, obligation, and guilt as to why you have continued LC.  Fair enough, and something many here understand... .I know I do.
Something I learned in my process is that nobody has the ability to make me feel anything... .I'm in charge of how I feel.  I'm the one who gets the action or words or lack thereof from others and my own brain is the one that gets to choose how to deal with and react to that information.  A hard concept to grasp, but one I think you understand with your background.  
I know I made many irrational decisions in my own process while trying to maintain LC... .as I was still caught in the FOG even though I thought I was not.  
Do you think it may be a good idea to do a pro's and con's list of LC vs NC at this point?  
We hear your fear, your obligation, and your guilt... .things you readily share.  
I kept doing the same things over and over... .expecting different results.  Things only changed when I focused on me... .which was not easy... .but the results were well worth the pain and effort.  
I'm still a pain in my own butt sometimes   but I know I'm worth all my own effort.  Giving my effort to someone or something that gave nothing back was killing me... .draining... .hence my user name.  

You deserve happiness chillamom.  You are a kind, sensitive and giving soul.  :)o you think it might be time to give you back to you?