Navigating a way out

[matthew37]

Hi again - thanks for all the support so far, this community's amazing, I wish I had discovered it.. oh.. 8 years ago?  Anyhoo...

As my hopes for repair continue to dwindle, I'd love to hear any advice folks have on how to trigger the split. My W has basically said (for years) "i know one day you'll leave me" and seems to be hell-bent on making it happen. Today she even said "if you're done, just tell me so I can move on" (this is despite me, of course, saying yesterday I want to try (again) to repair things).

But I am pretty sure if I took the bait, it would turn into the next flareup/episode, possibly lead to her breaking (my) stuff, etc.

Does anyone have any tips on how to jump off the edge of this cliff and actually have some form of parachute? I'm fairly convinced unless I can actually get her to decide she's leaving, it'll massively trigger the abandonment issues/etc, and lead to me having to navigate her forever post-divorce (we have kids, 10/12/14)...

[formflier]

The first step is to prepare to leave.

Have a L hired and ready.  Make sure you know what the likely outcome is. 

Then you will be more confident.

I'm curious why she doesn't leave...rather than pester you to leave.

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy is more or less required reading for these things.

Eddy was a former social worker who then became a family law attorney so he understands the combined effects of an adversarial, conflict-driven mental illness with an adversarial legal system.

Give yourself time to think things through carefully, thoughtfully. Be discreet because you can't put that genie back in the bottle and being 10 steps ahead is essential. Telling her what you're thinking of will set you back 10.

Divorce is a sign that you are contemplating a life on your own. Think of this thought process as a trial run where you carve out a space for yourself and not a joint venture.

When/if you feel guilty, it's often a sign you are putting your needs (safety) ahead of your wife's, for the benefit of the kids.

[GaGrl]

First, put some thought into what you envision your life to look like after a separation and divorce. Do you intend to seek custody of your children? 50-50? Will you sell the current house and buy/rent new residences? What will the logistics of custody look like? How will finances look?

When you have a solid idea of what you want and need, you can interview about three lawyers to make a decision on which will be best for you. They often provide a free or low cost initial consultation, and you can get a lot of answers and into in 30-60 minutes.

Any thoughts yet on designing your future?

[CoherentMoose]

Do you think you need a "surprise" exit?  Or will you be able to handle the flying monkeys that come at you when your intent to separate is announced (or found out)?  For my GF, a surprise exit was the only way for her to survive.  She planned very carefully with the help of her mother. 

Her xBPDh was a master at bully manipulation in person, especially with her.  She negated his strength against her weakness by enforcing written communications when she left.  It took the threat of a TRO in order to stop him from attempting to find her, but it allowed her enough time out of the pressure cooker to fully implement the process of divorcing and custody negotiations.  30 days after she left he found and focused on someone else.  That helped.  Hope all is well.  CoMo

[matthew37]

Thanks all - in the "that escalated since my last post" category, she had another episode yesterday (fun part: the trigger was me starting a conversation about family vacations, something she's asked me to do for months, and the moment i actually did? Rager). Once it reached the "she threw stuff at me (again)" stage, I asserted I couldnt tolerate the violence/abuse any more, and we were done.

Oddly this led to a conversation where she actually Heard Me! about this, and a massive calm down. I've pondered this for a while - if I actually get to the breaking point, will she potentially snap out of it. And she did. ?

Until this morning where she started up again, and I immediately went there again. Which led to an actual apology this morning (not like a great one, but in context, far better than anything i had expected).

I have now spoken with a lawyer, and am getting more of my ducks in a row - quickly.

I think I'm at the very very end of this rope, though am keeping the door open for some kind of "Hail Mary" - but not for much longer.

The hardest part for me is a deep belief that if I pull the trigger, the rest of her life will be fairly miserable, and I still deeply care for her so much. And I know this is a common pattern and I need to take care of myself first (thanks in advance!), and I will, but it feels like I'm about to kick the crap out of a sick dog. Just makes me feel so bad for her - and I also know she may turn her life around as a result of all this, but still, it's just not easy. I'm truly worried she'll completely fall apart if we split.

So sad, and frustrating, and I just hate being this stuck in life.

Anyhow, thanks for listening everyone!

[ForeverDad]

You set a boundary.  Not on her (who resists boundaries) but on yourself.  And she noticed.

"If you do or don't do ___ then I will or won't do ___."  (a simplistic example)

But as you already are aware, her short term responses to an effective boundary don't seem to last very long.  Don't be surprised if this "slow motion train wreck" of recent years continues into a crash.

...but it feels like I'm about to kick the crap out of a sick dog.

Turn it around... Is it okay for a sick dog to kick the crap out of you?

[CoherentMoose]

You surprised her with a boundary.  Be prepared for an "extension burst" where the boundary will be severely tested to see just how serious you are about maintaining it.  It may be gradual, or sudden. 

My GF surprised her exBPDh bywalking out of the house during verbal escalation.  She had never done that before.  He was all apologies when she got back.  However, at the next escalation a few days later, he physically blocked her from leaving the room.   

Be careful and mindful.  Continue to plan for the worst while hoping for the best.  CoMo

[I Am Redeemed]

You can't keep her from being miserable. Those feelings come from within. It's not your sole responsibility to prop up someone else and keep them happy (or at least teetering on the edge of not so bad) especially to the detriment of yourself.

Mental illness is sad. That doesn't mean you have to ward off its effects on someone who will not take steps to get help for themselves. It's a common trap we fall into- thinking someone else is so sick that they bear no capability or responsibility for their own well being.

Personality disorders are serious mental illnesses, but they are not so debilitating that they mean that a person who suffers from them should not be responsible for their behavior or their own recovery.

Many trained professionals have difficulty working with uncooperative clients with personality disorder traits. You are not a trained professional and have no legal or ethical responsibility to a person who is harming you mentally, physically, emotionally. You do, however, have a responsibility for yourself and your own well-being.

[livednlearned]

I have now spoken with a lawyer, and am getting more of my ducks in a row - quickly.

This is a time to be very vigilant, friend.

She knows that you are "going there" legally and may feel the need to get you into a one-down position, and that is not a good place to be once lawyers are involved.

Some pwBPD engage in legal abuse, specifically false allegations. We had a member here who was advised by his lawyer to never be alone with his ex unless there was a third party present (not a family member).

Record, document, keep receipts, be vigilant.

I'm not saying she will do this but the way BPD can work is that your boundary may feel aggressive to her, and she may interpret what you said and did as abuse, distorted by the lens of intense of emotion (fear of abandonment). When/if she talks to a lawyer and enters the adversarial win/lose aspect of family court, she may become abusive in a way only a flawed legal system would enable.

It's good that you are moving quickly, and I'm sorry you're going through this.

Might be a good idea to not discuss any of your plans going forward as this can be used to her advantage.

[ForeverDad]

Might be a good idea to not discuss any of your plans going forward as this can be used to her advantage.

Too Much Information (TMI), including what details you share with the kids, can easily become self-sabotaging in your divorce and parenting efforts.  Yes, you do share necessary parenting and child exchange matters.  But not your legal advice and strategies.  Once you switch from the marriage counseling perspective to unwinding a marriage, the scope of sharing information changes.  Telling her what you plan to do or how you plan to do it could easily enable her to obstruct or sabotage you.

[matthew37]

Thx gang. Been recording *diligently* and have definitely limited what I share back, super good advice!

Had an interesting weekend - as others have shared elsewhere, I think the "yes, I am talking with a lawyer" conversation created the actual "right" reaction on her end. We're 3 days straight of talking about her behavior, mindset, episodes, etc, and it's as if I'm talking to a whole different person.

I'm wary as hell, and not changing on my end, but I have a tiny tiny tiny bit of optimism - for now. My therapist suggested I get her in a more formal counseling program/therapy, so we'll see if that can happen in the near term.

Obviously not anywhere near to out of the woods, but there's something very empowering for me to (1) have spoken with a lawyer, (2) built a real plan, and (3) am ready to make a change for myself. Finally feel like I'll be in a very different place in the coming months - and whether thats splitting or an actual road to recovery - it'll be a 1000% improvement over my last few...

Thanks again!

[weatherthestorm]

Just makes me feel so bad for her - and I also know she may turn her life around as a result of all this, but still, it's just not easy. I'm truly worried she'll completely fall apart if we split.

It sounds like you and I share a very similar experience, my stbEX has made life chaotic for over 10 years. In my experience, I do not expect that she will turn her life around or change. I only expect it to get worse as it has over the last several years. Eventually I will not be the primary target but I am concerned for our 3 children.

We are already in the divorce process, I told her I wanted a divorce in late October 2020 and she acted like it was a total surprise despite the number of times in the last 5+ years she has told me either to leave or she was going to divorce me. We agreed to stay in the house together through the holidays and I moved out in January.

We are still negotiating the terms and as described above when I try to set boundaries she rages. And then typically the next day she calms down and acts like nothing happened. Do what is best for you and I wish you luck!

WTS