Myths about nc

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I had to start a new thread about this. Something that was said in a previous thread still bothers me--not in an angry way, but in a dangerous misconception for others kind of way. The assumption by an LC'er was that once you go No Contact, that's it, it's over. There is nothing to think about anymore, no more struggles, it's done.

PLEASE let's not get into no contact v. LC over what I'm bringing up. I don't understand what little animosity people have over being in these two camps. I am just trying to dispel the very dangerous, inaccurate notion that no contact is the end of it all.

First of all, just because YOU do not contact or respond to your BPD parent does not mean HE (or she) acts in kind. You can tell them you are going No Contact, but that means YOU, and you can only control what YOU do. Since when did a borderline ever just comply with someone's wishes?

On the contrary, any annoucement of no contact usually results in all-out war or massive waif-like behavior, particularly if the BP is elderly. It's a challenge. The fangs come out, the crocodile tears come out. This can go on for weeks, months, years following annoucement or commencement of No Contact. Contact from the BP in fact becomes MORE, not LESS frequent. You have to start screening calls or get caller ID. You jump when the phone rings, look at unmarked mail suspiciously, panic if you get an unexpected guest knocking on your door. One of our Unchosens was followed by a (very bad) private detective.

And that's just the BP. I also got his crazy enmeshed family calling me, and I mean people I haven't seen or spoken to in like 15 years!

Also, if you think that going no contact is going to be some magic cure to your PTSD or childhood abuse issues, you hold a very dangerous and naive point of view and should NOT go No Contact. You will be very disappointed. This person will continue to live in your head for some time, and you are the only one who can evict him. It's better to work on yourself and know that when you decide to go No Contact, he's not still going to be making contact inside your head.

Successful no contact is not done in anger or fear or out of revenge. It's done with clear intent and compassion for yourself and others. I just had to end the farce not only for myself, but for dad. He was living a lie, just as I was. It had gotten so that we literally had nothing to say to each other. That last Christmas, we literally sat and stared at each other for 20 minutes with nothing to say. Even small talk about the weather seemed like a lie.

nc is not easy. It's constant maintenance. It's not the absence of the BP. I mean, look at my posts in the past. I was no contact for 4 years before dad died, and HOW many times did I post about their contacting me?

I might have been resigned to remain LC with dad, but several factors prohibited that. First was the gun thing (i just wasn't safe around him), then I realized that after he died I would be stuck with his family and needed to sever those ties NOW not later. Also, I was exhausted. I was empty. I was done. The no contact struggle was worth every ounce of energy I gave it.

[luanneplatter1]

I had to start a new thread about this. Something that was said in a previous thread still bothers me--not in an angry way, but in a dangerous misconception for others kind of way. The assumption by an LC'er was that once you go No Contact, that's it, it's over. There is nothing to think about anymore, no more struggles, it's done.

PLEASE let's not get into no contact v. LC over what I'm bringing up. I don't understand what little animosity people have over being in these two camps. I am just trying to dispel the very dangerous, inaccurate notion that no contact is the end of it all.

First of all, just because YOU do not contact or respond to your BPD parent does not mean HE (or she) acts in kind. You can tell them you are going No Contact, but that means YOU, and you can only control what YOU do. Since when did a borderline ever just comply with someone's wishes?

On the contrary, any annoucement of no contact usually results in all-out war or massive waif-like behavior, particularly if the BP is elderly. It's a challenge. The fangs come out, the crocodile tears come out. This can go on for weeks, months, years following annoucement or commencement of No Contact. Contact from the BP in fact becomes MORE, not LESS frequent. You have to start screening calls or get caller ID. You jump when the phone rings, look at unmarked mail suspiciously, panic if you get an unexpected guest knocking on your door. One of our Unchosens was followed by a (very bad) private detective.

And that's just the BP. I also got his crazy enmeshed family calling me, and I mean people I haven't seen or spoken to in like 15 years!

Also, if you think that going no contact is going to be some magic cure to your PTSD or childhood abuse issues, you hold a very dangerous and naive point of view and should NOT go No Contact. You will be very disappointed. This person will continue to live in your head for some time, and you are the only one who can evict him. It's better to work on yourself and know that when you decide to go No Contact, he's not still going to be making contact inside your head.

Successful no contact is not done in anger or fear or out of revenge. It's done with clear intent and compassion for yourself and others. I just had to end the farce not only for myself, but for dad. He was living a lie, just as I was. It had gotten so that we literally had nothing to say to each other. That last Christmas, we literally sat and stared at each other for 20 minutes with nothing to say. Even small talk about the weather seemed like a lie.

nc is not easy. It's constant maintenance. It's not the absence of the BP. I mean, look at my posts in the past. I was no contact for 4 years before dad died, and HOW many times did I post about their contacting me?

I might have been resigned to remain LC with dad, but several factors prohibited that. First was the gun thing (i just wasn't safe around him), then I realized that after he died I would be stuck with his family and needed to sever those ties NOW not later. Also, I was exhausted. I was empty. I was done. The no contact struggle was worth every ounce of energy I gave it.

[finally awake]

This is great, really great. 

[luanneplatter1]

Thank you. I just do not want people, particularly those who lurk and don't post and ask questions (cos we know you're out there!  ) to go no contact and have these unrealistic expectations and be disappointed or unprepared. You need an no contact plan. Maybe that's another thread. What is your no contact (or heck, LC!) plan?

nc didn't erase my first childhood memory (which was my father hitting me) or cure my PTSD or depression or resolve any abuse issues. It just gave me the opportunity to free myself from the obligation of contacting him. You don't stop needing therapy just because you go No Contact.

[powerfulgazelle]

Luanne,

Thank you SO much for this post.

Amen and amen.

As someone who has done absolute No Contact, and a variety of shades of LC, I could not agree more with your views as they were expressed.

How much/what kind of contact/relationship one has with one's BPD person has to do with:  where one is with the "old tapes" that play in one's head, bacause, let's face it, those are harder to shut off than just hanging up the phone... .and what kind of BPD person one has been, uh, "blessed" with.

If going no contact had meant I was "done with" mother in any way, shape or form, I wouldn't be here now.  If being in LC meant that, same thing.

peace,

powerfulgazelle

[livingw/ochaos]

I have to admit I never understood the LC vs no contact camps, and truthfully I don't read the threads on them.

To me no contact is just another shade of LC. 

It's all very confusing to me.  My H recently spoke to his mother for the first time in 2 years.  I don't think he ever considered himself no contact . . . just LC with no particular reason to speak in the last few years.  I think his family considered themselves no contact with him (though I'm not positive, it could just be they had nothing they needed from him the last few years).

I don't see any reason to judge one over the other. 

LC gives my H the opportunity to see where the flaws in his family are.  no contact gives him the peace and distance to work on himself without distraction.  Neither are the complete answer.  Whatever works best given the current situation.

[whome]

Well, LIC got here right before me!   

It seems rather pointless for me to reiterate what has already been said.  (in a very fine fashion, i might add)  But, since I'm logged on and typing anyway... .

nc has its positives and negatives.  LC (i would imagine) has its positives and negatives.  As far as BPD in and of itself... .the disorder is as different as the people that suffer from it.  The Nons that come to bpdfamily are also individual in their feelings, experiences, coping, etc.

I've done my fair share of btching, whining, misunderstanding, learning, and so much more. 

While I'm not completely sure of anyone else's intent here at bpdfamily, I honestly do not get a strong sense of judgement.  Well, particularly here in the Unchosen section.

Take care,

Lisa

[whatever23]

Good post, Luanne.

This person will continue to live in your head for some time, and you are the only one who can evict him.

And what a surprise that is.  One thing I'd like to add about no contact is that it really clarified this for me.  Getting some distance from my mother allowed me to put things in perspective and identify what came from her and what part of it had become so ingrained that now it came from me.

And that's just the BP. I also got his crazy enmeshed family calling me

So true.  If they think you're the bad guy because you can't get along with the BPD, just wait until you actually cut her off.  Her sad, waif-like statements seem to be proven true when you have the nerve to put an end to it.  Relatives think very bad things about you when you don't speak to your own mother.  In my case, it was worth it, but it made me look really cold and uncaring.  Still does.

[tomv_39]

Great post Luanne,

There is no silver bullet.?  Dealing with crazy is dealing with crazy.

I was LC for?  8 or so years before going no contact (and yes, I find the terms and abbreviations helpful as a framework).?  I would say they are equally hard, albeit in different ways.?  Nothing was harder than the first step - setting and enforcing the initial LC boundaries directly and firmly, establishing rules.?  It triggered an awful year of ptsd, and constant nightmares that someone was going to kill me - but no way I was going to back down.?  And being the boundary cop, and constantly having to enforce those boundaries, while maintaing my emotional distance, was grueling.

What has been hard about no contact is that the immediate stakes changed, and the possibility of physical or tangible danger have increased greatly - attempts at physical intimidation, being stalked, followed, threatened, etc.?  And, the ever present threat of some sort of malicious legal action.

When I was LC I never dreamed I would have the strenght to go no contact and thought people who did so were heroic, and that I was sort of a chicken for being LC; now that I am No Contact, I look back and marvel at how strong I was to be so successfully LC with such sick people for so many years, staying in the mouth of madness while enforcing my boundaries without sacrificing my independence or my true voice.?  And of course, I don't feel heroic or strong in the present, as I am constantly looking over my shoulder.

Don't get me wrong - no contact was what I needed to do for myself, adn I am never going back; it was the only step that felt right anymore.?  But, not to sound trite, its all hard if you are facing difficult situations honestly.?  And thank god for bpdfamily and all the support, regardless of where you're at in your journey.

[aames]

There is no silver bullet.  Dealing with crazy is dealing with crazy.

You can say that again.   

I am currently trying on the LC gloves with my mother.   I"m not doing it to be hurtful to her, or to escape responsibility, or to avoid dealing with my feelings (deep mistrust, resentment) -- I'm doing it to give myself some breathing room, to set some limits to the crazy in my life, create some boundaries with her, and to gain some much needed perspective and strength for the next chapter of our relationship. 

I have no intention of going no contact with mother.   But I have, when needed, implemented nc  with others - both the chosen and the unchosen - in my life. 

Each relationship (and the amount of contact therein) should be taken on its own merits -- The value of limited contact - which I hope will be a restorative action to my relationship with my mother, and allow me time to stop resenting her  - verses the value of no contact (with those others I mentioned) - which has literally saved my sanity when I opted for it.

Suddnely I'm tired  -- hope that wasn't a dithering ramble, but it's beginning to feel like one, so I'll end this post with this:

No one way is the right way for everyone or for every circumstance - I would hope everyone would agree on that point, at least.

[tedles]

Good topic, Luanne, and excellent observations about No Contact.

I've been no contact with mother for about 1 year now, and it's still tough.

Even though I won't talk to mother, my SO and daughter still do.  They've cut back the phone conversations to only once or twice a month, but even that triggers feelings in me that are hard to cope with.  It makes me angry that mother can pretend that she has a normal relationship with my family, and thus, indirectly with me.  Because her relationship with them is friendly, she's decided that I am the one who is crazy.  Only a crazy person would reject her own mother.

I'm trying very hard to develop a relationship with my brothers that does not center around mother, but that, too is hard.  I would gladly not talk about her any more, but they are still LC with her.  I've offered them my support in coping with her antics, and listening to their feelings.  It's just the 3 of us now, and I am the only support either of them have, (no therapists or understanding spouses).

This message board, too, is a double-edged sword.  To truly purge mother from my life, I have to leave this board and go it alone. . . for a while.  When the PTSD's pop up, I return to validate that I am not totally alone.  I find the posts, like Luanne's, that bolster my confidence for another step forward.

Mother blames my therapist for my No Contact.  In a way, she's right.  Without him, (and EMDR), my psychotherapist SO, and this board, I'd probably still be enmeshed and miserable.  Thanks to you all.

[ciaocaramia]

Good topic, Luanne, and excellent observations about No Contact.

I've been no contact with mother for about 1 year now, and it's still tough.

Even though I won't talk to mother, my SO and daughter still do.  They've cut back the phone conversations to only once or twice a month, but even that triggers feelings in me that are hard to cope with.  It makes me angry that mother can pretend that she has a normal relationship with my family, and thus, indirectly with me.  Because her relationship with them is friendly, she's decided that I am the one who is crazy.  Only a crazy person would reject her own mother.

I'm trying very hard to develop a relationship with my brothers that does not center around mother, but that, too is hard.  I would gladly not talk about her any more, but they are still LC with her.  I've offered them my support in coping with her antics, and listening to their feelings.  It's just the 3 of us now, and I am the only support either of them have, (no therapists or understanding spouses).

This message board, too, is a double-edged sword.  To truly purge mother from my life, I have to leave this board and go it alone. . . for a while.  When the PTSD's pop up, I return to validate that I am not totally alone.  I find the posts, like Luanne's, that bolster my confidence for another step forward.

Mother blames my therapist for my No Contact.  In a way, she's right.  Without him, (and EMDR), my psychotherapist SO, and this board, I'd probably still be enmeshed and miserable.  Thanks to you all.

This is exactly the confusion, guilt, shame I feel about my decision to go NC and the horrible nightmare that has ensued since with my brothers and aunts still in communication with her. She also flaunts her relationship with my two little nieces and that makes me look WRONG and CRAZY. If she can be so good with them then my accusations are incorrect about her and I never should have cut off my mother and to some degree my family. So then, I am wrong and crazy. Wrong, wrong, wrong... .crazy, crazy, crazy. I can't tell you the merry go round I get on. And JUST like you said, I desperately need to NC her in my HEAD so I can engage my husband and MY life. But I just can't seem to control it. It is a constant weight, a constant low-level feeling of being wrong and crazy. I try, try, try to formulate these prayers of surrender, reading the Bible, taking walks, not letting myself talk about her. The indescribable grief of the loss of my siblings and aunts and the "you're wrong", "you're crazy" never stops. How do I get off the merry-go-round? How do I make it stop? How do I REMAIN confident about my belief that my mother is in fact BPD and I did the right thing in stopping the abuse? I am so desperate for these two answers.

[Basenji]

This is exactly the confusion, guilt, shame I feel about my decision to go NC and the horrible nightmare that has ensued since with my brothers and aunts still in communication with her. ... .How do I make it stop? How do I REMAIN confident about my belief that my mother is in fact BPD and I did the right thing in stopping the abuse? I am so desperate for these two answers.

In the spirit of the original post, yes, those of us who go NC (or a variant of LC or whatever people want to call) need to face the consequences of such choices.

Based on my experience we need to:

• Remember we are victims of abusive relationships;
  Be mindful that abuse may have profound impacts on our wellbeing and many aspects of our daily lives and relationships;
  Have faith in ourselves and our own judgment;
  Recognise we are entitled (finally and despite the abuse we have endured) to put ourselves first snd not to continue under the mental slavery of the borderline through the shame, guilt, and years of programming;
  Not be swayed by the judgment of others, who are likely ignorant and ill informed (e.g. about BPD), disrespectful to us (e.g. by not recognising our pain and commitment to healing) and  /or simply in denial (e.g. just can't see it) and spellbound by the borderline's indoctrination;
  Not be tempted to fall back into the endless cycles of abuse whether that because of shame, guilt, dysfunctional adherence to misplaced sense of duty / values/ social or religious conditioning and expectations;
  Accept that not everyone will support our point of view and choices;
  Bypass those who are not supportive in favour of those who are our real advocates.

Yes the NC journey is not to be underestimated.

But it does provide for those that choose it, the space to put ourselves first at long last and engage in the healing process.
 
We know from the common  experiences of countless others that the healing process is likely to demand a challenging journey.

We know that the healing pathway works - it has for countless others already, and providing that we are strong - those that are not our supporters on that journey cannot be allowed to dissuade us from our chosen path.

It is not our job to heal the borderline abuser - we are not able and qualified to do so - it is our job to take absolute responsibility for our own welfare and happiness!

Now in going NC with my mother I have had to accept a variety of responses from family friends. Fine, some are not on board, but those folk are effectively enablers of abusers and thereby not worthy of my consideration or personal energy.

Maybe they will see the truth one day - maybe they won't.

Either way, I choose not to attach to them in their ignorance.

It is my personal opinion that going NC is likely to make our healing much easier attain - I expect that others may take a different point of view.

I would note, however, that the great majority of posts on this excellent website are posted by so many suffering people struggling to understand the behaviours of the various borderlines in their immediate circle of existence whilst still being hopelessly enmeshed by the manipulations of their respective borderlines in an ever ending cycle of suffering.

So, the NC route may not offer instant respite and resolution, but it may offer an easier and more timely route to healing for some.

I totally respect that this is a personal point of view, and may not be shared or apply to others.







  

[Panda39]

My SO's daughters are both navigating this with their mother.  D16 is LC and D20 is NC.  I encourage them to handle this in the way that they need to.  More or less contact is up to them and it does move it isn't stagnant or all black and white.  They do this to protect themselves although I worry that D20 also uses it in part to punish her mother.  I think D16 is still hoping that on one of her occasional visits with her mom that she will get the mom she so desperately wants her mom to be... .still hopes that mom with change... .be different... .be better.  It is such a hard place for both of them and really tough when the rest of the world doesn't see the dysfunction and suggests they forgive and forget, and give their mom another chance or mom starts guilting and making false promises.

D20 was listing to a podcast on the NC topic on NPR below is the link if anyone is interested... .

www.wbur.org/dearsugar/2017/04/21/dear-sugar-episode-ninety-two

I really don't think that it has to be NC or LC in my experience it moves between the two as situations change.

   to all of you going through this it isn't easy but it is important that you care for yourselves and not accept abuse.  Do what works for you in your situation.

Panda39

[Peacefromwithin]

Thank you for a fantastic thread.

I'm VLC but sometimes I wish I had gone NC. I need to understand how you all learn to not get re-triggered when back in contact. I still feel guilty instead of setting the "short phone call" rule so they don't get hurt.

Going VLC helped me to work on myself in therapy, without the need to have to deal with the latest family drama.

It's lonely, though. Don't think life will suddenly be rosey with your sick family member out of your life. Because as the OP wrote, they continue to live in your head and you don't just get our childhood traumas just because you're not in contact with your abusers.

Also it's really hard to explain to friends or acquaintances why you don't see your family. I often feel judged by people for that.

Can someone direct me to the tools you use to evict them from your head? I share with my therapist how they're in my head, but he doesn't tell me how to evict them.