Hoping For A Little Insight

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi

Long story short my ex, despite being undiagnosed, is reasonably self aware and admits to black and white thinking, strong abandonment fears, extreme emotions, and a tendency to run. As such, she tends to avoid anything emotional, but wanted to have a relationship with me. She also has random withdrawals and mood swings, but usually comes out of them quite quickly, and apologises. As for me, I'm quite secure and non needy, never really chase after her, and am not that open with my emotions. I can also say in all honesty that her BPD traits never caused any real problems.

We split up over an argument a few months ago, where I shouted at her. Not something I usually do, but had other things on my mind and so reacted to one of her moods. So, it was my fault, and she left.

I left her be as it was her decision, and didn't chase after her but, after a few days, she was in touch. She was friendly and, after a week or two of talking she raised the possibility of getting back together and said that she missed me a lot. I was keen to as well, but was taking things slowly, which seemed to make her a bit impatient with me, but whenever I did push she would be unsure and confused . Things seemed to be going well though and, regardless of what the outcome may be, we were on very good terms.

At the time she was also under a lot of pressure at work, and this was clearly adding to it, as she had to put some things off (because she couldn't concentrate), which I knew were important to her. As a result I called her one day at work and suggested that maybe my wanting her back was putting unfair pressure on her while she had a lot on her plate, and that perhaps I should give her a little space. It didn't go down well, she got agitated and angry, and asked me why I was calling to tell her this, and eventually she hung up. I left it a few days for her to cool down, and sent a text to catch up, which she ignored, then another a week later, which was also ignored. I then figured she'd decided to just move on, as things were difficult with both work and her emotions, and figured it best to leave her be. As a result there was no contact either way for about 3 weeks.

A couple of weeks ago though I bumped into her in the street, and we said hi, but it was clearly frosty. She then mentioned my call, but didn't want to talk about it on the street, and so we parted. To be honest, I never realised it bothered her so much, and might have been the reason she hadn't spoken to me since. So, a week later, I sent her email apologising for the timing of my call, saying that I'd like to speak with her and asking if she wanted to talk about it. I also said that if I didn't hear from her I'd assume she didn't want to speak again, and would respect that. She did reply though, in a very angry and hostile way, saying that she never wanted to see or hear from me again, and that I should have got the message when she didn't reply to my texts, and to leave her alone. This was in complete contrast to how she'd been before the day I called her.

I have no idea why my call to her, in attempt to be understanding of her pressures, upset her so much. Up until then she seemed keen to reconcile, and was making plans for further dates, and she even said how kind I was, and now it's like I'm the devil incarnate and some kind of monster. Obviously, whilst I'd have liked to have talked to her properly, I'll naturally respect her wishes and leave her be. Given her apparent anger and hatred, I'm not expecting to hear from her.

I guess I was just hoping for some insight into why things went from being so good to being so awful because of one telephone call. With anyone else you could just ask, but of course I can't now as she's said to leave her be and naturally I'll respect that.

[Robnew2017]

Hi

Long story short my ex, despite being undiagnosed, is reasonably self aware and admits to black and white thinking, strong abandonment fears, extreme emotions, and a tendency to run. As such, she tends to avoid anything emotional, but wanted to have a relationship with me. She also has random withdrawals and mood swings, but usually comes out of them quite quickly, and apologises. As for me, I'm quite secure and non needy, never really chase after her, and am not that open with my emotions. I can also say in all honesty that her BPD traits never caused any real problems.

We split up over an argument a few months ago, where I shouted at her. Not something I usually do, but had other things on my mind and so reacted to one of her moods. So, it was my fault, and she left.

I left her be as it was her decision, and didn't chase after her but, after a few days, she was in touch. She was friendly and, after a week or two of talking she raised the possibility of getting back together and said that she missed me a lot. I was keen to as well, but was taking things slowly, which seemed to make her a bit impatient with me, but whenever I did push she would be unsure and confused . Things seemed to be going well though and, regardless of what the outcome may be, we were on very good terms.

At the time she was also under a lot of pressure at work, and this was clearly adding to it, as she had to put some things off (because she couldn't concentrate), which I knew were important to her. As a result I called her one day at work and suggested that maybe my wanting her back was putting unfair pressure on her while she had a lot on her plate, and that perhaps I should give her a little space. It didn't go down well, she got agitated and angry, and asked me why I was calling to tell her this, and eventually she hung up. I left it a few days for her to cool down, and sent a text to catch up, which she ignored, then another a week later, which was also ignored. I then figured she'd decided to just move on, as things were difficult with both work and her emotions, and figured it best to leave her be. As a result there was no contact either way for about 3 weeks.

A couple of weeks ago though I bumped into her in the street, and we said hi, but it was clearly frosty. She then mentioned my call, but didn't want to talk about it on the street, and so we parted. To be honest, I never realised it bothered her so much, and might have been the reason she hadn't spoken to me since. So, a week later, I sent her email apologising for the timing of my call, saying that I'd like to speak with her and asking if she wanted to talk about it. I also said that if I didn't hear from her I'd assume she didn't want to speak again, and would respect that. She did reply though, in a very angry and hostile way, saying that she never wanted to see or hear from me again, and that I should have got the message when she didn't reply to my texts, and to leave her alone. This was in complete contrast to how she'd been before the day I called her.

I have no idea why my call to her, in attempt to be understanding of her pressures, upset her so much. Up until then she seemed keen to reconcile, and was making plans for further dates, and she even said how kind I was, and now it's like I'm the devil incarnate and some kind of monster. Obviously, whilst I'd have liked to have talked to her properly, I'll naturally respect her wishes and leave her be. Given her apparent anger and hatred, I'm not expecting to hear from her.

I guess I was just hoping for some insight into why things went from being so good to being so awful because of one telephone call. With anyone else you could just ask, but of course I can't now as she's said to leave her be and naturally I'll respect that.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Rob, From what you describe, you've called, texted and emailed her to no avail.  At this point, I suggest you let it go.  You can't control her thoughts and feelings.  In the meantime, I suggest you consult the Serenity Prayer.  I doubt your b/u was all your fault, so give yourself a break.  If your Ex has BPD, then she likely has black and white thinking as you suggest, and your are currently in the black.  Nothing you can do about it at this point, except work on yourself and figure out how you ended up in a r/s with a pwBPD in the first place.  I'm sorry to hear what you are going through, but in my view it will lead to greater happiness down the road.

LuckyJim

[Robnew2017]

Thanks Jim, and I must admit that I did initially put it all down to her BPD. However, in truth, that side of her never really caused any problems. There were the occasional moods, but she always apologised for them. As such I had little to complain about.

The initial break up was my fault I guess, as I shouted at her. However, it blew over quickly and we were on good terms and were talking about getting back together.

The painting black and total withdrawal only came after I said I'd give her some space. I thought I was doing a good thing, but on reflection I suspect she might have taken this as me backing off and giving up, and thus rejection. If that's the case then it's a complete misunderstanding, but one which I'm unable to correct, as she won't speak to me.

I can accept that we probably won't get back together, and am happy for her to decide what she likes, but I don't like to think she believes I was giving up and rejecting her, when that was the last thing on my mind.

I guess I wanted to know if someone with BPD eventually cools down and reconsiders, and does want to talk about it and clear the air.

Unlike most cases, where the BPD person causes all the problems and then walks away, I have to accept that it was my doing, and her BPD was only responsible for how she reacted to me. As such, in reality she's done nothing wrong, and so there's no guilt on her part.  Does that make any difference as to whether I remain permanently painted black?

[BeagleGirl]

Robnew2017,

Since you asked for some insight... .
I'm a "non" female, and I think I may be able to give you a bit of perspective that hasn't been mentioned by previous posters.  In summary, I would be pissed at you too and here is why:

Things seem to be going better in your relationship, to the extent that your gf feels you are "in a relationship".  She has been stressed about work, possibly because she has been choosing to focus on mending a relationship that is important to her rather than making certain deadlines.  You CALL her AT WORK and basically say "I don't know how to handle your emotions and stress influenced behavior, so I'm going to break up with you now.  Is that okay with you?"

I know you didn't use those words, but that's kind of the gist I get from reading what you wrote.  Please correct me if you think I'm misinterpreting the basic message that could have come across to your gf.

1st mistake:  Assuming you knew what was best for her. 
Better approach: "You seem stressed out and I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to help."

2nd mistake:  Calling her. 
Better approach:  Have the conversation in person

3rd mistake:  At work
Better approach:  Schedule a time when she will not be under pressure and won't have to deal/stuff with any emotional fall out because she's AT WORK.

4th mistake:  Not working harder to figure out what you did wrong.
Better approach:  "I don't think I handled that very well and want to understand what I did that hurt you.  Can you help me understand?"  She also tried to tell you on the call ("Why did you call me to tell me this?" but you didn't listen.

Of those mistakes, the most damaging is you deciding what was best for her.  You basically sent one or both of the following messages:

"You are too stupid/emotionally unstable to know what is best for you, so let me decide for you"

"I don't want to be in this relationship right now, but I'm going to make it seem like it's you that can't handle the relationship so I feel better about stepping away."

Again, these may not have been the messages you intended to send but, even a "non" woman will read these things into what you did/said.

Whether you want to use this insight to take another shot at apologizing and rebuilding a relationship with this woman, or just recognize things that you SHOULD NOT DO in any relationship and file them away for the future, I hope you can step back and see what I'm pointing out.

BG

[Robnew2017]

Hi BG

Thank you so much for your response, you're completely right and I recognise that.

Sure, I could see she was stressed, and having to think about whether we would get back together was clearly adding to that. I wanted her back very much, but knew she had other pressures. As such I wanted to be understanding and suggest that perhaps it might be helpful if I gave her a little space for a week or two. I had no intention of walking away, quite the opposite, and wanted to show I'd be patient about things.

It was actually worse than her choosing to work on mending the relationship. She had told me previously that she was physically struggling to concentrate on anything else, as she had been misising being with me, but was confused about things.

I completely agree though. I was clumsy and thoughtless in calling her at work to discuss it, and should have waited for a better time. In fact I guess I knew all that, and feared that it had been interpreted exactly as you described.

I didn't really have a chance to apologise or explain on the call, as she hung up on me, and has ignored me since. I didn't realise at first that it was solely down to my call, and it was only after I bumped into her, and she raised it, that it was apparent, but it wasn't a good time to talk.

I then emailed her, and apologised for my thoughtlessness. I said it was wrong to call at her work, and that I should have waited  for a better time to ask her what I wanted. I also said that I'd like to talk her about it if she was open to it but, as it was my doing, I understand that it's up to her whether we do, or even have any contact. I said that I hope to hear from her, but if not I'll understand and respect that. She did choose to reply, saying that she never wanted to see or hear from again, and to leave her alone.

So yes, I get that what I did was wrong, on many levels. It was well intentioned, but thoughtless, and I can see how it would be interpreted. I would like nothing more than to apologise properly, as it was entirely my doing, and to make amends and rebuild things, as we were getting on so well before that, and it seemed she really did want to try and reconcile. That's not possible though, as she's asked me to leave her alone, and the least I can do is respect that.

I guess it's an unusual case, as most people  have problems with how their BPD partner behaves, whereas in this case it was my behaviour that was at fault. I suppose the only area in which her BPD comes into play is that she has pulled away completely and painted me black, with seemingly no willingness to hear an apology. With anyone else, if the feelings were there then, after cooling off a bit, they might be open to talking about it, but I have no idea if such splitting ever cools down, let alone reverses.

So yes, I agree with you, that even a non would be upset and angry about it, and all I've wanted was to be able to talk with her about it properly, understand her side of things, and apologise for being inconsiderate in how I handled it.

It's been a week since the email exchange, so I can only hope she does cool down and makes contact at some point, as the door is shut for me to contact her.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your candour.

[Robnew2017]

I guess I have a question to add.

It seems that when a BPD does something bad, and splits the other person and runs, they often come back after a while.

However, in truth, she hasn't done anything wrong other than to react at what she thought was abandonment by me. So, if it's the non who was at fault, and triggered her abandonment fears to cause the split and be painted back, do they cool down, re think and come back?

She had a dig at me in her email reply telling me not to contact her again, in saying that I haven't let go after she's ignored me for a few weeks. That seemed strange, as I've never chased her, and before she thought I'd let go and moved on after a few days. As such, she would have likely thought I had let go by now. So, is it possible that she's projecting the fact that she hasn't fully let go yet, which might explain why she's still so angry and upset?

[Sunfl0wer]

Not sure if it has been said, so sorry if it has... .

I guess I was just hoping for some insight into why things went from being so good to being so awful because of one telephone call. With anyone else you could just ask, but of course I can't now as she's said to leave her be and naturally I'll respect that.

Seems in figuring out things that you are trying to relate her reactions to your behaviors towards her.  The main issue is that you are seeing her ability to manage her emotions.  Her tolerance for strong emotions is low.  She has difficulty managing both positive and negative feelings and seems to come undone when faced with either.

So, way I would think about this is... .
This is just a display of a part of what is going on in her inner world, how she processes things.

Not really a reaction to you at all.
This is NOT about you.
This is about a person who is overwhelmed and feels in crisis simply because she FEELS things and can't cope with the: feeling.

Idk if what I am saying makes sense or if I tied it into my point.  I guess I see you explaining what you said, describing her response... .and well... .I just think it easier for me sometimes in dealing with folks who have BPD to simply look at many of their "out of proportion" behaviors more as a reflection of their emotional insides than a reaction to my behaviors outside of them.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Rob, It's normal to review events leading up to a b/u, but maybe you are over-analyzing her possible thoughts/motivations?  Let me make a suggestion: why not give yourself a period of time, say, at least a week, during which you're not going to worry or think about your Ex at all.  After the time period ends, you can revisit the issue.  :)oes that sound feasible?

LuckyJim

[Sunfl0wer]

How does one consciously not think of what they are consciously avoiding thinking of?

[Robnew2017]

Exactly, it's hard to consciously try to not think of something.

I also agree that it is a result of her extreme emotions and reactions. However, as was pointed out earlier, my actions were at best thoughtless and insentitive, and would just as easily have been misinterpreted by a non. In this case, her BPD was merely responsible for her being more extremely hurt by it, and thus withdrawing so far and being unable to talk about it. So it's hard to just dismiss it as down to her BPD, as in many ways her reaction was quite rational and justified, although extreme.

In this case I really was the bad guy, and am only being viewed as more bad than perhaps I should be.

What's frustrating is that we initially broke up because I got angry and shouted st her when she was being moody. To me that was far worse and, whilst she did get angry and leave because of it, she got over her anger and we were on good terms again after only a few days. This was less serious and yet it's resulted in a total shut down of communications, because it suggested possible rejection.

[BeagleGirl]

What's frustrating is that we initially broke up because I got angry and shouted st her when she was being moody. To me that was far worse and, whilst she did get angry and leave because of it, she got over her anger and we were on good terms again after only a few days. This was less serious and yet it's resulted in a total shut down of communications, because it suggested possible rejection.

This may be a case of "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me." in her mind.  While the second "offense" was not as severe as the first and you (and probably she) thought she had gotten past it, it may have still had the additive effect that is brought on by recognizing a pattern. 

I would say that my BPDh has the same sort of confusion about the "last straw" offense that triggered me leaving.  He has done things that are SOO much worse than the last hurtful thing.  I forgave those things, so why can't I forgive this one?  Or did I not really forgive those previous offenses?  The way I see it, I did forgive those previous offenses.  I "moved past" them and focused on rebuilding the relationship.  Then I started to recognize the pattern.  I even got to the point of being able to predict behavior based on the pattern I was recognizing.  Maybe not the severity of the "hurt" but the timing was eerily predictable.  So even though I had forgiven, I had not forgotten, and the previous incidents added to the weight until it only took a feather to tip the balance.

You are right that some of what she is doing is probably unrelated to her BPD, and also correct that the BPD may make her reaction stronger. 

Just my $0.02.

[Robnew2017]

Maybe BG, it's good to get another perspective.

I really was trying to do the right thing though, and to ease her pressures, and put my own interests on hold. So there was no pattern to it, although I know that's no excuse to be clumsy and stupid about it though.

I have to admit that if she wrongly took it as abandonment on my part, which I suspect she did, then I know just how much it must have hurt her, and I feel terrible about that.

In that sense I have no confusion about why she's so angry and hateful towards me now. I guess my frustration is that the message itself was well meaning, but the timing of the delivery allowed for it to be misunderstood.

With someone who didn't react so strongly and quickly, the telephone conversation would have played out better. At worst it would have just been annoying because of the timing. However, she misinterpreted so quickly, and reacted instantly, which made it impossible for me clarify, especially as I didn't realise she took it wrongly at the time.

In fact, the only reason I called her at work was because I was going to be away for a few days, and might not have been in easy contact if she tried to reach me. I know from experience that if I don't reply to her on the same day, she thinks I'm ignoring her. So, I wanted to give her a heads up and not trigger any abandonment fears.

I guess it was a judgement call really, and trying to pick the lesser of two evils, and it went wrong.

Of course I can't blame her for how she's reacted to it, as she can only see it from her side, which I completely understand.

It feels like a surreal situation, where no harm was intended, but it spiralled out of control.