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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Hello, Here is my Introduction  (Read 2563 times)
AnuDay
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« on: June 01, 2017, 06:45:14 AM »

I am new here and I have a feeling that I will be posting here for a while.  I have been in a relationship with someone with undiagnosed BPD for about 8 years now.  I don't want anyone to have to go through what I have been through... .anyone.  It has been a complete nightmare, one disaster after the next, with me left to pick up the pieces.  Finding this site has been a Godsend.  I am thankful for the articles that I have found on this site already.  I have searched and searched for a site like this for about 3 years now, but it was only yesterday that I found this group.  The trials and tribulations that I have gone through, no one, should have to go through.  The complete disastrous road that my life and our relationship has gone through... .no one should have to go through... .and I mean no one.  I was so blinded by love that I thought what was happening was normal and that all relationships have ups and downs.  But boy oh boy, the intensity of those ups and downs that we had.  If your relationship includes heart palpitations, sleepless nights, exhaustion, wild fantasies, or panic, that is a sign to get out.  8 years in I don't know what cycle we're on now or even how many there have been.  On top of that there have been several mini cycles within the long range cycles.  Sometimes there are dull periods, but I have found those dull periods to be the calm before the storm.  The storm within pwBPD is always raging, no matter their outer appearance or demeanor.  I never know what word or what I will say that will set off the next down spiral.  For the past 2 months I have said nothing at all or very little.  I usually have to carry the conversation and the relationship.  My SO's social skills are so bad that I never know if what I am saying they understand or not.  I don't know if they get it.  I don't know if they relate.  I used to constantly find myself asking my SO if they understood and if they understood how come they did this or that.  I don't know if she cares or if she even empathizes.  After 8 years a lot of my SO's thoughts and actions seem foreign to me.  They are not the person that I thought I was dealing with.  It has always been that way.  My relationship has caused me to doubt myself a lot.  I have questioned my own ability to provide, be a good lover, a good parent, a good person.  And I was/am the type to always go above and beyond what was asked for.  I guess that's what led me into this relationship in the first place.  I was an overachiever, a do "gooder", a "save the world" type (My SO is waking up now and I am getting scared as I type this.  If she sees that I post anything here she's bound to go berzerk.  I will try to finish quick.) so when I entered the relationship I saw a girl in deep need.  A girl headed down the wrong street.  I saw her as someone that I could save.  I saw her as someone that could make a huge difference in this world if I just got her out of the mess that she was in and cleaned up her life... .boy was I wrong.  WRONG on all counts.  DEAD WRONG to be exact.  I was sucked in, used, and have been recycled.  My SO totally drained all of my resources financially, spiritually, and socially.  My SO has wrecked havoc on my life.  When I say wrecked havoc, I mean EXTREME damage.  Some of the costs I will never be able to repay. Right now she's currently in I don't even know which number affair, maybe her third.  I put up with it because we have children together  I've put up with it for years.  I totally lost my identity and myself in trying to help this person.  Through support groups and books such as "Stop Walking on Egg Shells" over the past year I have slowly been rebuilding myself to my SO's mental detriment.  My SO sees anything that I do to improve myself as being a detriment to her so I have to be quiet about it.  My family members ask me what am I afraid of, I'm supposed to be a man... .if they only knew. (My SO has woken up now and just glared at me.  I will put headphones on and try to continue this).  If anyone is on this site or forum and suspects that their SO has BPD please, just end the relationship, no matter where you are, no matter what it might do to your life, even if you think you have no other options or you can't live without the SO.  Just end it.  What you must understand is that pwBPD are very good at deception and manipulation... .when I say very good, I mean VERY.  I have a fair amount of education, I also know people with a fair amount of education who have all been fooled completely by the pwBPD manipulative schemes.  They are very complicated people and you CANNOT believe everything that they say, such as is the case with normal people, with pwBPD you must be even more careful.  The infatuation, intense love and desire, longing, and neediness that is in the initial phase of the relationship is NOT an indicator of the pwBPD true feelings.  You must understand that.  At the beginning of the relationship you are simply filling an emotional need for the pwBPD's deep low self-esteem.  This will fade and what you will be left with is an empty hollow person.  You can see the emptiness at the beginning of the relationship if you really are aware.  I saw it, but thought that it just went to show how much my SO needed me to fill that void in their lives.  That void my friend is never-ending.  DO NOT go there.
So that is my introduction.  I will be posting here a lot to unload some of this baggage and I hope that it helps or even inspires someone.

Thanks   
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Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2017, 09:26:46 AM »

Dear AnuDay-

Welcome to the BPD family.  You will receive a good amount of support, love and thoughtful advice when you ask for it here.  All very non-judgemental.  Most people who haven't lived this, just tell us to "move on".  We want to tell others to do that, too.  But we know that once that knife has been inserted, it's hard to twist it out without pulling out vital organs in the process.  But with a lot of self work, we can hopefully get to where we need to be, emotionally and physically.  And with children, the journey to that safe and sane place has an added delicacy to it, but you'll get there.

This site has been a Godsend for me as well.  I discovered it, and the fact that my ex- boyfriend has BPD about 3 weeks post Breakup.  We have now been apart for 6 weeks and were together for 3.5+ years.  When we met, he was my absolute dream come true, especially after my very painful divorce from my husband of 19 years.  I was so deeply in love. And then BOOM!  Out of nowhere- the rage.  I thought with my deep love, fierce loyalty and commitment, I could help him.  After I let him leave for what MUST BE the last time, I looked up the phrase "unprovoked rage in men", found BPD and he hit on all except the cheating (although now I'm not so sure). I also discovered that he is a SOLID head on Narcissist.  In fact I believe my ex IS Narcissus incarnate.

I am so deeply sorry that you're suffering so much in this relationship.  And yes, you will find that most of the people here completely understand what you're enduring.  I believe you've got great insight into some of what you need and are taking very positive steps to regain your own emotional health.  PwBPD CAN make us nons think that WE are the ones with the terrible issues.  We get so used to being blamed for everything that we question our own sanity.  We are screamed at, cursed at, lied to, belittled, made to feel that we are nothing.  But you ARE something.  No matter how small she tries to make you feel.  Please remember that every minute of every day. 

My ex-undiagnosed BPD lied to me and I forgave unforgivable things.  My problem, I finally realize, is that I "normalized" a lot of his raging behavior because my older sister has BPD, so I've been treated like this since I was 11 years old.  I'm 59 now.  And I don't live near her, so I hadn't experienced that treatment on a daily basis since I was 16 and she left for college.  My brother and I have discussed her rages (he calls it her psychosis) for years.  He says I'm her favorite "target", but if I'm not in the vicinity, she'll attack my brother, our elderly mom or her husband.  No one is safe.  But with my ex-boyfriend, most people it seems were safe.  I think it just may be the women in his life, so he is able to self-regulate, although I'll never know.  He did not however, have any relationship with his three sons, which I found increasingly disturbing.  And now I find that chilling.

I do know that the pain is crushing.  I have asked myself, not "how long can I live like this?", but "how long can I survive this?"  My GOD, the things he did to me... .

But you know all of this... .so now for you.  I think you're amazing.  You are.  You are seeing that you need and deserve your identity.  Are you in a position to get therapy to help with developing tools to deal effectively with her malady?  Does she admit that there is something wrong about her behavior? 

I am so sorry about the affairs she has/had.  Devastating.  That must be so painful for you.  And I understand you must try to hold it together for the sake of your children.  Obviously they're quite young.  Does she function well in her role as a mother?  Are you formally married?  When she strays, does she leave the home for the duration or is she engaging in this behavior and still living there with your family?  I know these are such difficult and intrusive questions.  You don't have to answer them.  I'm sorry.

I am glad you're here.  And your name, AnuDay, is a great one.  One last thing.  I did something that has helped me in my healing and it may help you if you're able to do this.  I have an iPad that has a password I keep in my head.  He snooped through EVERYTHING in my house, but had no way to access this iPad, plus he didn't know I was writing to myself.  On the Notes on here, I began writing a journal to myself about the bad things right after they happened.  What he said, did, and how I felt.  I go back and read my own desperate words, which has really helped me to remember why I allowed him to leave and not return this time.  In the beginning, I used to write love letters about him to myself.  Anyway, just an idea.
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AnuDay
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 12:13:17 PM »

Thank you Gemsforeyes for responding. 
My first reaction is oh my god, i can't believe that other people are going through or have went through this.
I have never talked to anyone going through this particular thing.  It is very hard for me to even make it through your whole reply.
It brings up so many strong emotions.  I, too, "normalized" the behavior as I had to deal with it for years from my mom growing up who has a whole range of issues. 
And Yes, when we talk about survival it is crazy to think about thinking in those terms.  How did I let myself get to this level?  I NEVER considered not surviving until I met her.  We are going to start couples counseling now.  Hopefully something comes out of it.  I have informed the counselors of most of my concerns.  She has not spoken about anything and she might possibly shut down as she has done during other counseling sessions.  She might just be going hoping I will change.  I just don't know what will come of this.  It's so scary.  I constantly live under stress as in a PTSD situation.  She does not admit that there is a problem, but she knows that there is one because she has had treatment for what she called depression before although she'll lie about it and say she didnt need it or doesnt need it or it isn't that bad or other people don't have a problem with her behavior. 

As far as your questions are concerned I would say that no question is too intrusive.  For years I was forced to hold all of this in for fear that she would get upset and cheat on me or do something else destructive to my life.  I am here now to unload the baggage and to help others who may be going through this now and in the future. 

We are not legally married and No, she does not function well as a mother.  I have told her that in harsh ways before I knew about her condition.  I did criticize her harshly before I knew about her condition so I am not completely innocent.  As far as parenting is concerned I have been and am carrying an inordinate amount of the load.  She has gotten better over the past year and as she has gotten better I have pushed more of the load onto her.  She is almost ready to handle all of the typical responsibilities.  Taking care of the kids and the house is very stressful for her.  Because of her condition oftentimes she does not understand what our 3 year old wants or needs.  Luckily as our daughter gets better at communicating and as her sister gets older this is less of a concern.  And no, she does not work and can't find, doesn't want, and can't hold down a job.  She is very low on executive functioning capabilities.  When she strays she does not stay at the guys house for long.  Her mom did that to her and she does not want our children to feel that pain.
I know all about the snooping and I keep a password on my laptop.  Ironically she deletes EVERYTHING that she does eg. browsing history, phone calls, texts.

And yes, you are right, today I have written more about it than I ever have and it is soo liberating.  I will keep a diary. I can't wait to share it all.  I have been bottling this in for so much time or only sharing bits and pieces with other people.  It feels good to tell all.

 
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Panshekay
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2017, 01:20:45 PM »

Welcome... .you said you have children. If you think you may end up leaving please get all your ducks in a row. Document everything and keep it at work. Read everything here... .one thing I have learned is don't ever think it can't get any worse... .our son who has a uBPDW can tell you it does.  Good luck, keep posting. It's a safe haven here with many caring people with great advice. 
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Stop looking for happiness in the same place you lost it.
AnuDay
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2017, 10:26:41 AM »

Wow.  I didn't know that it could get worse.  Yes, we will probably separate this time.  As you may know I don't know how long this will last.  This might be our third breakup.  This time seems much more serious then the other ones because we have two kids involved instead of just the one or none that we had before.  I will figure out how to get all of my ducks in a row.  Currently she is juggling between the two of us.  I guess until the other relationship is solid enough that she can move on or until it sours.  Then she will jump back to me.  My family says that I have to pull the rug from her and let her fall. 
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Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2017, 06:30:47 PM »

Dear AnuDay-
I hope you're feeling a bit stronger today.  It seems that your family is supportive, is that a correct assumption?  Are they nearby?  I hope so.  This is a time for you to rally your troops - close family, good trustworthy friends, and these boards, your therapist- so you build your strength for whatever awaits you around the corner.

And whatever may be around that corner, as Panshekay pretty much said, just don't be surprised, it can be anything.  Hold your head high, knowing that you have behaved in a responsible, loving and supportive manner as a good father and partner.  She is the one who betrayed the relationship, NOT you.  Yet you are the one still seeking to mend things.

Try to hold compassion for yourself through this process.  You are a human being, so be careful not to allow yourself to be painted as unkind if she unleashes during therapy.  There is her story; but there is also the truth.  Please remember that, my friend.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes
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AnuDay
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2017, 01:36:07 AM »

I have been writing a lot.  I have been writing on this forum too.  The stories here are so valuable. 
A lot has transpired the past two days.  First she said she had a boyfriend she was sleeping with and teased me about him, then the next day she said she didn't have one.  She is very emotionally immature (she is 25 with the mentality of a 12 year old).  Yesterday was relatively calm.  Tonight was a whole different animal.  I have been trying to be really nice to her as I learn more about BPD from this forum and I thought that we were making progress towards reconciliation, but as soon as I left for work she was back to texting her boyfriend.  When I got back home from work they were still texting each other and she said she was going out with him.  I had enough of being a codependent or enabler so I told her that that was disrespectful.  She got dressed to go out anyways and I just left.  She was so upset that she said she was throwing all of my stuff out of the apartment and trashing my laptop.  I'm so thankful that I got away.  I left for 3 hours at my cousins house to calm down and talk to a rational mind.   When I came back home the chain lock was on the door so that I couldn't get in, but that's all.  Nothing was missing or broken.  I rang the doorbell a few times and she slammed the door, opened it, stomped back to the bed and slammed the door.  I forgot how much she likes to slam doors.  I haven't triggered her in so long.  I have just let her be.  As soon as I put my foot down on something she rages or throws a serious temper tantrum.   She's planning to move after her relationship with this new guy stabilizes and she starts beauty school.  It bothers me that I have to wait around like a doormat until then.  I have been working on getting all of my ducks in a row, collecting evidence, and rallying the troops as you put it.  I found that I have so much more family support than I thought now that I am telling them everything and not keeping my girlfriends condition a secret.  Writing in a journal and here helps so much. 
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2017, 08:27:52 PM »

Well said!  It's the control and manipulation that theybare masters at! My ex manipulated me for close to twenty years . After the divorce he was diagnosed with BPD but since the diagnosis and the fact that I am in a happy, healthy relationship, he. Ow claims he doesn't have it. He is healthy. I am the depressed one in need of counseling. I could go on and on. Tonight he got to. Ethoufh... .he sometimes gets me to a breaking point so I decided to come on here and read others to know I'm not alone. Thanks for your story. True and so helpful.
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AnuDay
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2017, 08:48:19 PM »

The past 2 days have been relatively calm.  She went out once on Saturday night to hang out with a girlfriend.  We had an argument about that because I didn't believe her.  I asked her what they were going to do and she said "go riding".  Sounded like a lie to me.  Anyways, she got back at 2 am and she wasn't drunk, but she said she was really with her friend and wasn't lying.  I believed her.   She has been acting like she wants to turn things around.  Even cooked me dinner.  Still a little distant emotionally.  We are due to go to couples counseling tomorrow so she is probably nervous.  I'm surprised she hasn't backed out yet.  Although, I haven't reminded her about the appointment.  I'm sure she remembers though because it's a big deal.  If she doesn't go I'm pretty much done with her. 
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Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2017, 05:21:56 AM »

Dear AnuDay-
I'm glad things have been relatively calm for you and hope the counseling appointment actually does happen. Your SO is likely on good behavior hoping that only her good behavior will be fresh in your mind so you won't have anything negative to bring into the counseling session, right?  For your own benefit, and the benefit of your children and the relationship (if you're intent on saving it)  try not to have as short a memory as your SO does.  Only by gently reminding her, with the therapist's assistance, of how her behavior hurts you, can she move toward being a better partner and mother.  I don't think it's good to completely sugarcoat the harmful behaviors.  We often wear out so much of our souls protecting and tiptoeing around our BPD People, even BEFORE we know a diagnosis, and in the process we become worn down to wisp of our former selves.

For me it was like this:  He was the wind and I was the wheat.  It sounds kind of nice, even conjures up a pretty picture, right?  But now consider the power, instability and unpredictable nature of wind - sure it can be light and breezy, or blow due east, be gusty, gale force, whip up, hurricane force, tornadic, full of debris, pick you up and hurl you.  And a stalk of wheat is completely at the wind's mercy.   The breeze can lazily blow right through you, feels so nice; then without warning, an increase in velocity can tear away your roots until you're left broken in pieces, strewn and scattered.  Sometimes you cannot find where you started.  That's how being with him came to feel.

With Some of her recent actions, it's only natural that you're bound to have trust issues and feel the need to question where she was on Saturday night; and then doubt what she tells you.  That can't feel good for you.  We all want to simply just trust without question.  For me, I would rather just blindly trust and never even want to ask.  It takes a LOT for me to lose my trust, and when that is betrayed, My footing feels like quicksand; I lose my entire foundation. And then just like that, I forgive.  It's so ridiculous.  Here's a touchy topic, AnuDay... .sorry.  I'm sure you're taking precautions to ensure your health around reproductive areas these days (I hope I don't get in trouble for this).

Please go easy on yourself.  Maybe try and be careful NOT to issue ultimatums to yourself.  You said If she doesn't go to the counseling, you're pretty much done with her.  Although maybe you ARE at that point and you finally need to just SAY that.  No one here will fault you for either saying (writing) it or meaning it or taking it back. You can always change your mind several times in a minute.  They do, so why not us every now and then?

Chin up my friend... .and keep writing and recording what happens and how you feel.  Remember, those streams of consciousness writings are for your eyes, just in case you need them later.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes
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AnuDay
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2017, 02:05:02 PM »

Thank you GemsforEyes,
All I can say is wow, you've really been through it.  You really know this BPD thing.  It's amazing how well you can relate to my stories.   I had totally dropped my guard against that move.  I had just read that due to their lack of executive function skills that BPDs don't have the power to manipulate, but I feel so manipulated.  We must stop allowing their good behavior to compensate for the egregiously bad behavior.  That is what codependents do and its not good.  There's basically no question off boundaries here.  Yes, protection is very important.  Even oral diseases are a concern.  Thank you for making sure that I maintain awareness of this.  She does not want any physical contact with me right now.  I stupidly told her that I don't care what she did and kissed her anyways, it was a closed mouth kiss.  We just don't know the extent of the BPDs promiscuity and everytime I get wrapped up in how she used to be I forget this and want to pretend that the relationship is ok again.  She's pretty much out of the relationship at this point.  I worry about my personal safety because I know that she has told this new guy a lot about me eg. where I work, hours I work, etc.  My family has told me that I need to get her out of this apartment before someone does get hurt with the extent of the games that my pwBPD is playing.  It's a very volatile and dangerous situation.  I told her to put her relationship on hold until we see what comes out of the counseling session, perhaps that's why things have been calm.  Although today I got in her car and did notice that a guy or very tall woman had been sitting in the passenger seat with the seat waaay back.
In general, there's a major problem with the balance of interpersonal infractions eg. She sees me being on facebook as a serious cause for relationship ending concern.  I will start another thread about this.   

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Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2017, 02:33:36 PM »

Dear AnuDay-
Some of your comments are somewhat alarming- when you say volatile and dangerous, does that mean she is telling you that your "replacement" is a potential threat to the wellbeing of you or your children?  Has she actually been physically violent toward you?  I was hoping she had only been LOUD.

It's a good idea for you to move to a new thread.  What heading will you post under?  Conflicted about Staying?   I want to keep in touch with you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes
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AnuDay
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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2017, 08:43:49 PM »

No, Gemsforeyes,
she has not told me that my replacement is a threat in any way shape or form.  I just like to protect my privacy and I have caught her before telling suitors online a lot of detailed information about me.  She has no boundaries with that regard.  I started another thread called "BPD girlfriend won't allow me on FB."  under saving a relationship that is in or near breakup.   I will start another one called "After the Counseling".


Thank you for helping me
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Jordan7190

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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2017, 08:59:02 PM »

AnuDay,

I feel your pain my friend. I just joined as well and posted my initial welcome too. Your story sounds eerily similar to mine. Almost to the T, except I have one kid with my wife. It sounds like your handling everything really well consider your circumstance. Document, to cover yourself. Take care of yourself, your kids. Be kind yet aloof to her if she communicates with you, because if you try to reason with her you're walking right into her trap. Keep your head low, and live one day at a time. What's nice about this site, is everyone here knows what you're going through. Trust me, my wife just did exactly what your described, came home and told me what she did with her boyfriend. But then the next day said she didn't have a boyfriend, only to find out the day after she told me that, she went out with him again. It's a never ending cycle. Stay strong, be wise, remain distant to her.
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Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2017, 10:47:34 PM »

Dear AnuDay (and Jordan)-
You know, I found that when my ex was inflicting pain on me, through the use of other people (and this was with my ex-husband of 19 years- I don't really know WHAT his issues were & right now that's too painful to delve into), I just couldn't ask questions.  I didn't want or need to know the gruesome details around his behavior.  It's just not good for us when we're struggling for air as it is.  I don't think we need to do anything to heighten our pain. It is within your rights to quietly tell her that what she does is too painful for you to hear, and that you feel the need to go to another room.  You can ask her to write it down for you if she feels the need to confess and you will read it, (keep it, but don't read it).

What I did need to do, since I have the uncanny ability to simply squash down what has happened to me (forgive and forget), was to "remember how I feel right now".  After certain events wound down, I would actually say that out loud to myself.  "I have to remember how I feel right now."  That's where my personal writings to myself really benefited me with my ex-BPD boyfriend.  AnuDay... .you remember I suggested you write... .so helpful to be self-reflective- something that pwBPD unfortunately cannot seem to be.

I had gotten into my rhythm of writing to help me recover from my divorce.  Then when I met my "love of my life", I was still writing.  First they were beautiful love letters, both to him and to myself.  And then they changed and were just to myself.  So I essentially have a record of our entire relationship.  To anyone else, reading what I've written would likely cast me as schizophrenic, so in love one day, scared to death the next, how do I get out of this, where did this RAGE come from? Why would he LIE?  He loves me so MUCH!  You get the picture.  This has helped me enormously in my recovery and healing process. 

My stream of consciousness writings were put down pretty close to when the events happened.  They are completely honest because they're for only my eyes.  I wrote what he did, my reaction, how I felt.  And when I go back and re-read, I cannot deny my own feelings, his actions, my reactions to and from events that actually took place up to 3.5 years ago.  They reduce me to tears.  It is like I'm reading someone else's devastation, but it's mine.  And I'm not struggling to recall, because it's there in black and white.

Of course I am deeply troubled by the things I forgave.  I did forgive some pretty unforgivable actions.  But I'm learning to not hate myself, and I'm only 7 weeks out.  And this time I got out before he threw me across the room.  I had lost all self respect.  I did believe I was all the names he screamed at me.  We are not those names.  And I realized that in a really short period of time.

My wish for you is this - believe that you are wonderful and deserving of deep love.  Understand that you ARE a devoted father and your children are a daily blessing and a source of joy.  You may be with a disordered person; and you were likely chosen because there IS in fact something truly remarkable, giving and special about you.  Hopefully the gifts you contribute to the relationship WILL soon be appreciated by your BPD person.  Hopefully she'll want to exchange the gift of a loving relationship with you.  But in the end, if she is unwilling or unable, you will still be YOU.  Know that EVERYDAY.  And if you happen to not feel quite like yourself right now, then please continue doing what you can to get yourself back.

I know I said it before, but it bears repeating... .chin up, my friend.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2017, 02:06:48 PM »

Thank you Gemsforeyes,
Your posts always almost make me cry.  I am at the very beginning of understanding BPD and it's effects.  I am currently  interested in learning more about codependency.  What is it about us that makes us so codependent?  Why am I willing to easily forgive transgressions?  I know that some of us are lonely, and have low self-esteem, some of us had the need to take care of disordered parents as children, but are there any other reasons that you can think of?  If I hadn't been so in love with my daughter and saw the grave danger that she was in living with a BPD mom I would've left a long time ago ( I think).  I know for myself I used to have this great urge to save people.  My mom used to tell me to be nice to homeless people, gay people, the disabled, and stray pets.  I grew up with a take care of the world mom.  Maybe this is part of my problem.  I am starting to realize that the problem in my home is way too great and the costs are too high.  But I still can't pull the plug.  Last night even after all she has done I asked her to take me back.  In her eyes, I begged her.  I have probably done this at least 2 other times.  She knows my deep attachment to the children and asked if I wanted to be together just for the kids.  I lied and said No.   
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« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2017, 11:04:41 PM »

I hope I didn't scare you by saying things can get worse.  In my sons case that is exactly what has happened. He is in the process of getting a divorce. Been separated from her for over 3.5 years.  In a little over a year his uBPDW has made 11 false allegations against him to CPS/DHS which has nearly cost him his job and future as a nurse.  He is not allowed to see his SD11 who he has been a dad to since she was 2. It's been a horrific situation. He has documented everything and we have gotten excellent advice from others here.  I hope things go well for you. They tried counseling but she has never followed through with anything, 7 jobs in one year is an example of that.  She also cheated on our son, that was the deciding factor for him.  Without trust he felt they didn't have anything to build on, she has a very volatile temper, but has projected that on to him by telling CPS he is the one with the bad temper. She is so good at deceiving others she has convinced many professionals that she is forthcoming when she is anything but that. No mater what happens just keep documenting... .you never know when you might need that. Take care.
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« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2017, 08:30:51 PM »

Last night she came back from the guys house again smelling like cologne.  Partially my fault because I told her to go and stay the night.  She came back at about 7:30am.  She told me she didn't have sex with the guy.  I went to the courthouse to file to evict her or get an order of protection.  I couldn't go through with either one.  I figure I need to continue getting my ducks in a row before making a move like that.  Maybe continue to build my case against her, maybe get another counseling session in on Tuesday.  Soon, I will stop being a doormat.  I have already started looking for other women. 
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« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2017, 09:41:02 PM »

It's very wise of you to continue to get your ducks in a row.  Remember to document everything. Attorneys and judges like that if you decide to proceed that way. Your statement about  starting to look at women made me laugh... .you might want to slow down on that. You will have to be mindful, figure out why you were attracted to the person you are with and change that. I know our son found he was attracted to a certain type  of woman who he would find out later had some sort of mental issue... .thankfully he never has really dated anyone since his wife moved out. He wants to live a quiet life right now with his son. Take some time for yourself, figure out what you really want to do... .work on things or not... .you will need some time to figure things out, do some soul searching  and some self awareness.  Don't rush anything but once you decide, whatever that is... .make a plan. 
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« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2017, 09:51:10 PM »

OK, AnuDay-

(Warning, my friend, this is ridiculously loong. I started writing this hours ago, then had to stop and do some work.  I haven't written about some of these things before, and your updated posts may have made my thoughts obsolete... .sorry.)

You want to know why we codependents are the way we are?  I can only guess, and I've just started applying that label to myself not even three weeks ago now.  I just didn't know.  It's OK to be kind-hearted.  Remember that.  What's not ok, is to be someone's punching bag, either in the literal or figurative sense.  Hopefully you'll gain more solid footing as the days progress and you absorb methods to meet her "madness".You don't need to call yourself names.  Because of your concern for the children's welfare, your situation is delicate.  When you're away from the kids, how are they toward you when you return?  Does the BPD rage in front of the kids?  Is there a way for you to gently tell her when she starts... ."honey, I don't think we want the babies to see us being angry... ."

And if in the meantime you feel the need to tell her you WANT to be in the relationship with her for MORE than just the children, then so be it.  No one is going to judge you for that.  Survival is a funny thing.  When you begged, your instinct was to keep your family together.  No one should second guess that.  You're only at the beginning of this process, so don't be too hard on yourself.  Your "tag" may be codependent, but you're a kind, loving man.

But here's the BEST part of us:  I remember when I was working in the bank office, I had a large window facing a main road.  It was raining hard and there was a little dog running around the road... .no one stopped.  I ran out of the office (I was a Vice President), high heels and all, into the traffic, picked up that muddy little dog, washed him off in the ladies, and sat him in my lap wrapped in a towel until his grateful owner came about three hours later.  I typed on my computer, met with clients, did all my work with that pup on my lap.  My employees were amazed.  What I couldn't understand is why no one else did it!

Another time I took a complete stranger home from the airport with me.  Yep, a complete stranger.  And no, I didnt meet her on the plane, I met her in baggage claim.  She was in tears... .her ride hadn't shown up, she couldn't get in touch with them and they lived in a town not far from mine.  She was a grown woman, older than me, had no money, and had returned from a spiritual journey to India.  We lived pretty far from the airport.  So I called my husband and told him I was bringing her home with me, and if we couldn't reach her people by the time we arrived, she'd likely spend the night.  He thought I was crazy, knew she was another stray I was picking up, but said OK.  Anyway, finally about three days later we reached her friends.  She had also given me their phone number so I could call them if she was meditating or sleeping.  I was the one who finally reached them. They apologized profusely for what they had done, saying they had gotten the days mixed up.  The bottom line was, I learned a lot during those three days.  We kept in touch for a while, but when it felt like the scales were tipping and she wanted too much from me, I slipped away.  I was wise enough to know my kindness was being sapped.

There are loads of other incidents from my long life, but Now isn't the time for repeating those, and I don't consider the above to be co-dependent stories.  They're long buried kindness stories.

I'm beginning to understand why I am co-dependent inside my relationships, and not only in my romantic ones.  But within certain family and relationships with my friends as well.  All of us evolved to where we are for different reasons.  Some of us to protect ourselves.  For me, I think, as a real coping mechanism, to maybe get noticed for being a "good" person?  I don't know. 

Something bad happened to me when I was 6 or 7.  I was continuously molested by the father of my two best friends.  My mom and dad learned in an awful way.  I tried to escape that man by running and scaling the fence between our houses.  I didn't quite make it.  My mom looked out the kitchen window and saw me with my face and neck on the ground and my legs still hanging up the fence.  She ran out and got me, with the wind knocked out of me.  Then my dad ran into the room when he heard me struggling for breath and my mom crying and begging me for words.  I was so upset, didn't want to talk.  Then I told them.  This is a long, long time ago (I'm 59 now).  My daddy ran out to buy a gun so he could kill the neighbor man.  My mom called the police so they could stop my dad and arrest the neighbor.  So... .my two best friends disappeared.  The house was empty the next day.  I never saw my best friends again.  There was no calm discussion, no counseling, no further questions, no nothing.  From that point on, I was scared to death of the fathers of ALL of my friends.  For a long time, I was afraid to be in the car with just my dad, not for the same reason, I thought he had the gun and would be arrested because of me.  I blamed myself for the disappearance of my two best friends... .

When I was about 25 or 26, I was working out of town and my sister came to visit.  There was program about child molestation on TV.  I swung around, looked at her and said, "Just like Mr. G".  My sister screamed out, "Oh my GOD, you remember THAT?  Mommy and Daddy don't think you remember that!".  I said, "of course I remember, I wasn't a baby, I was 6!". 

So when I was sexually attacked while away at the university, rather than telling my parents, or anyone else why I really left, I lied and said the school was too "difficult " for me.  I might have even stayed if my attacker had left me alone after the initial assault.  But he didn't, he stalked and threatened me by phone.

Talking about it to my family wasn't even something I debated in my head.  I briefly went to a therapist at the student union for help, because I couldn't stop banging my head against the wall.  I wouldn't tell exactly what happened, just enough.  He begged me to call the police.  I wouldn't.  This was a very well-known football player.  The therapist was pleading with me to express anger.  I couldn't.  He tried giving me things to throw.  I threw a coffee cup.

None of the details matter today.  What matters is that I subsequently voluntarily entered into some pretty unhealthy relationships with men. I did NOT jump from one relationship to another.  I was committed, always a little leery at first, and then blindly trusting.  The men would fall hard and fast for me.  A very common theme.  I've had more marriage proposals than is normal.  Something in my gut... .just said no.  And after my ex-husband proposed, I didn't marry him until 7 years after our engagement.  I've only worn one ring.  I never discussed the manipulative and cruel things my husband did.  Pretty much No one knew there was ANYTHING wrong in our marriage until we separated the night he threw me across the room and he was arrested.

I'm so sorry, AnuDay... .I should NOT be telling you all of this.  But my co-dependency, comes from these early acts of violation, and my being defenseless against them.  First, when I was so little; and then when I was violently attacked, driven into the country and over-powered by a man who was easily more than twice my size.  I was taught, or came to believe, that these things were NOT OK to bring into the open. 

So this me, comes from me just TRYING to be accepted, liked, not upset the apple cart, if I perform well, he'll see that and be proud; protect myself from violent or violating behavior.  If I'm good, I won't get in trouble, they won't want to hurt me, they'll like or love me more, I'll be good enough to be treated kindly.  When I was doing pottery, my husband didn't like the amount of time I was in the studio, so I did my glazing at home.  Then I started making jewelry and I did that at home (he would be HAPPY, RIGHT?)- no, but then he saw that people loved my stuff and wanted to buy it - then he was all over it!  But to make it in peace, I had to wait until he went to sleep.  Nothing worked.  Same thing with my BPD bf.  It  just doesn't work.  You can only twist yourself so much.  But I refuse to be anyone's victim.  I do refuse that title.

I don't know that I can change the fabric of who I am after all these years.  What I CAN change is who I allow into my orbit.  And how much I allow people to affect me.  I'm starting to understand my role in these ugly dramas, "normalizing" that awful treatment, like I spoke of before to you.  But that treatment and behavior toward me is NOT normal or acceptable anymore.  I don't want anything to do with it.  I've had my "AHA!" moment through all of this reading. 

But wait!  I think I CAN change, and DID change toward the end of my relationship with my ex-uBPD BF.  I started to very calmly stand up to his rages, speak to him.  Even before that, during a time when he was in good humor, we were talking about the rage and I asked if maybe I should come up with a "cue" word to stop him.  We came up with a funny word from a movie we love.  But in the throes of the frightening rage, I forgot to use it.  It's hard to think of something funny when you feel threatened.  Anyway, about two weeks before the final rage, he was screaming, hurling insults, and I said "J, please stop and think about what you want, because if you leave now, you will not come back.  So either take only your keys and go for a drive, or go into the back room and watch a movie, and then decide if you want to leave".  I remember my exact words because I wrote them down.  He went and watched a bit of a movie, came out and apologized.  But that ultimately didn't snap him out of who and what he is.  I was the one getting stronger.  As I've said, my question had turned from "how long can I live like this?" to "how long will I survive this?"

I think you may be at my question.

Your friend,
Gemsforeyes

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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2017, 11:23:33 PM »

Thank you Gems,
You have been a life saver!  You inspired me so much with your wisdom.  Your story is so great
because it gives a real vivid inside view of what it feels like psychologically to be victimized as well as what it feels like
to overcome it.
I now understand why I am codependent.  I have a
very caring heart.  I am also very sensitive and empathetic to other's struggles.  I grew up with a mother who emotionally
abused me.  I definitely see now how I set myself up for my current relationship with my ugfwBPD.  One thing about me though is that by the age of 18
I made up my mind that I was not going to be victimized anymore.  Your story has inspired me even more to rebuild my emotional
muscle and take back control of my life.  This emotional abuse stuff is so hard to see and the way that
she does it is so conniving that I never saw it for what it was.  Now that I know what it is I will not take it anymore.  I am going
to start speaking up and taking a stand for myself and stop walking on eggshells.   
To answer your question, she used to rage at the kids, not so much anymore.  I had to chastise her for it.
Every once in a while she will do it and I will stand up for the kids.  My oldest, 6 is just about old enough to stand
up for herself against her immature mom and I am grateful.
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« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2017, 05:58:36 AM »

Dear AnuDay-

One of the most complicated aspects is the children.  They're so fragile in their development.  You don't want their innocence to be stolen by having to negotiate through their mom's moods and upsetting actions, or conflict between their mom and dad.  I'm so glad you put your foot down and that she seems to have responded somewhat.  Hopefully she IS a loving mom toward the girls.  Maybe when things are a bit further along, check in closely with your girls and make sure they're not modeling the BPD behavior.  Little girls (and boys) need healthy role models.  It's such a difficult topic.  It's hard to protect them when you're and they're in the eye of the BPD storm.  They'll start adjusting their behavior to maintain the calm, too.  Im sure you take them to hang out with your family or friends where they can just be little kids out of earshot of problems.  You know we get these images in our heads of constant conflict.

I am fortunate in that it was only me I needed to "save".  I'd like for you to reach out to Skip for direct advice about the children.  Will you please do That?

But I am totally here to talk to you, AnuDay.  You know, the best we can do is become a little more aware everyday.  Love those beautiful children.  Calm your personal waters so you can organize your thoughts for your next steps toward a good future for you and your children.  I think that no matter what the traits of a typical BPD may be, individuals can vary.  If she wants to go to beauty school, by all means support that!  The more independent she becomes, the freer you'll be in whatever decisions you want to make - whether married or not.

You said in an earlier post you were "looking for women".  I think we both know you may not quite be there yet.  You're going through an awful lot and I can see how the comfort of an affair would be very appealing.  You're also very vulnerable of heart right now, and your situation and heightened emotions might be hard to explain to a stranger.   Plus Since you may ultimately be in a custody discussion, upstanding behavior and fidelity to your marriage may be vital. 

For me, I'll look for someone to date when my heart is more intact.  I definitely do NOT want to be quite so "damaged" or angry at myself when I enter a new relationship.  The one thing I am certain of is that I will drive the pace and velocity of anything from here on out.   I may be 59, but luckily I'm still physically "charged".  So I'll place that desire on my back burner for a bit. 

Take good care, my friend.

Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2017, 09:11:09 PM »

Hi there AnuDay,
I'm so sorry to hear about the chaos that your relationship has been. If you are considering splitting up, I HIGHLY recommend reading "Splitting: Protecting yourself while divorcing someone with borderline or narcissistic personality disorder" before you do - it talks about legal challenges, patterns of behaviour, and strategies you can use. The physical copy of the book is best but you can get an audiobook through the phone app "Audible," which might be easier to hide from your SO. It's helped my BF and I with his uBPDx and mother of his children.
Good luck!
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« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2017, 08:11:57 AM »

Thank you for the much needed advice AGAIN Gems... .just when I thought I knew what I was doing.   
I will reach out to Skip.  I have put a lot of time and money into working with the kids.  One might need a therapist. I noticed traits when my oldest was 3.  She is pretty normal now, just only a few neurotocisms to work on.

Thank you Gems,

and thank you Jazz for the book recommendation (btw, I hate text dumps too!).  I have it saved on my wishlist. 
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