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Author Topic: Is she sabotaging couples therapy?  (Read 428 times)
confusedbloke
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« on: June 08, 2017, 05:36:15 AM »

Ok so last night i went to the pub with my friend and my kids.  I invited her to come down but she declined.  I always go on a wednesday and buy them dinner.  Its been routine now for 2 or so years.

She went for a job interview yesterday and it turned out to be a job thats not suitable.  I could tell she was down about it... .

Anyway, Id like to show the messages that we sent... .I need some advice on what to do now... .

Me) Hey. Just got to pub x
Her) OK well have a good time x
Me) Thanks honey. What are you up to?x
Her) Nothing really x
Me) You OK?x  - <SHOULD I HAVE ASKED THIS?>
Her) Yeah I'm OK x
Me) Ah that's good. Just wondered if you felt a bit deflated after today x
Her) Well yeah a bit but it's OK x
Me) God its dead in here x
Her) Usually is on a Wednesday x
Me) Yeah but it's habit!x
Her) I guess x

HALF HOUR LATER I TEXTED

Me) Im bored x
Her) Sorry your bored x
Her) Miss ya x
Me) Me 2 x

ONE HOUR AFTER THIS

Her) You still out? X
Me) Yeah just gonna have another pint or 2 pushing it... .x
Her) Can't be that Boring then ha x
Me) Was gonna leave but <female friend from work> just texted and asked if we were in. She's been at her friends with her daughter. So they've popped in for a couple... .otherwise I would have gone... it's still dead but at least there's someone who talks haha... .bad friend to <my male friend who was with me> haha x
Her) Ar good glad your having fun now x
Me) Thanks baby. I love you x

<no response>

Me) Oiii... .I said I love you!x
Her) Love you x
Her) Gonna have an early night so incase I don't hear from you again I'll say goodnight x  <8:30 at night... .shes an insomniac!>
Me) Ok. We can talk about this tomorrow. You're not yourself. I wanted you here but you didn't want to... .I hope u r OK and I love you OK baby... .you're always in my thoughts x
Her) I didn't want to sit in a pub on a boring night, you'd made the arrangement and I was invited after so yes as something I didn't want I declined x
Me) I invited you last night but you declined. Hey look I can tell you need some time... .am gonna have a few beers with <male friend> ok... .please don't be annoyed. I've been doing everything to make you happy ok and I'm being a good boyfriend x
Her) You know what ya right let's leave it till tomorrow x
Me) Baby what's wrong? Oh don't... .what have I done? Don't do this please... .you were invited. You declined. Don't do this please... .x
Me) I always go for a pint with <male friend> on a Wednesday... .you know that... .OK let's leave it till tomorrow. Night then x
Her) Good night x
Me) Ok night x
Her) And I believed we were comnicating and no longer assuming and talking... and I'm also not happy you told <male friend> we was going to therapy... .can we have anything private ever x
Me) We are communicating... .I'm sorry you're miffed but I really don't know what I've done to upset you. You need to be more specific and give me details x
Her) No we didnt x
Her) We'll talk tomorrow x
Me) Yeah righto goodnight x
Me) I'll wait for you to talk to me ok... .coz I'm at a loss as to why u r annoyed. I hope you tell me... love ya tho x
Me) Have you had a drink? You sound like you have and trying to sabotage my night with <male friend>... .I hope not baby... .please don't do this x
Her) No I'm just miffed so yes let's leave it x
Me) Well you're the one not communicating... .OK.  I'm used to it. You go in a mood... .I ask you what's up and you say nothing... .brilliant... .Yeah to quote a phrase from yesterday "changes are a foot"... .I think you're right. Go to bed
Me) I'm gonna be honest <her name>... .what you did tonight was extremely immature... .I thought we had got to a stage where we are talking about what bugs us. For you to just get annoyed with me, and just leave me wondering... .again... is testament to how you are and always will be. I asked you to tell me what was wrong... .and I've no idea... abs no idea... .for you to switch off again is unacceptable. It's unfair and I hope when you have sobered up in the morning you will realise how non productive this is... .you contact me first <her name> coz ain't doing it... .I ain't hurt or down or owt... .it's standard... .I can live without you when you get in a mood... .and I'll go out and have the best fun and when you've got over your mood, I'll come running as I usually do. So anyway. Cheers for tonight... .did I get in a mood with you when you didn't want to see me last night? No I didn't. Thanks <her name>

****

Thing is we were supposed to have our first counselling session tonight.  I fear now that she will blank me for 5 days, and then I'll get in touch with her in 5 days time when shes calmed down... .She NEVER makes the first move.  I feel like she is sabotaging counselling tonight... .it was her idea and Ive never been on board with it, but now I want to... .

But I also want a perspective of how I handled the texting... .  I usually go insane when she ignores me and call her all the names under the sun... .which just validates her and allows her to carry on ignoring.

Not going to do it this time, but I also want to know what I should do... .

Sick of this... .  any ideas?

Thanks
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Tattered Heart
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2017, 08:53:13 AM »

So let's go through this a little at a time. Here's what I saw when reading the texts:

Me) You OK?x  - <SHOULD I HAVE ASKED THIS?>
Her) Yeah I'm OK x
Me) Ah that's good. Just wondered if you felt a bit deflated after today x

It seems like you may be getting a little nervous about her emotional state at this point. Asking if she is ok is good. Perhaps though, you could open it up to get her to be a little more specific, such as "How are you feeling about today?" This way she will have to describe her emotion about it, instead of "just ok".

Me) Im bored x
Her) Sorry your bored x
Her) Miss ya x
Me) Me 2 x

ONE HOUR AFTER THIS

Her) You still out? X
Me) Yeah just gonna have another pint or 2 pushing it... .x
Her) Can't be that Boring then ha x

What made you want to send the text that says you are bored? At that point I'm wondering why you wanted to stick around then.   Not that it's wrong. Just seems "off". For someone with BPD this could trigger feelings of rejection. My guess is she may be feeling like you would rather be somewhere boring than with her.

Me) Thanks baby. I love you x

<no response>

Me) Oiii... .I said I love you!x


Seems like right here you begin to walk on eggshells. She isn't responding the way you think she should so you begin "checking in" and trying to get her to respond to you to give you the temperature. What would have happened if you had just let the "I love you" stand without needing a response?

Me) Ok. We can talk about this tomorrow. You're not yourself. I wanted you here but you didn't want to... .I hope u r OK and I love you OK baby... .you're always in my thoughts x
Her) I didn't want to sit in a pub on a boring night, you'd made the arrangement and I was invited after so yes as something I didn't want I declined x
Me) I invited you last night but you declined. Hey look I can tell you need some time... .am gonna have a few beers with <male friend> ok... .please don't be annoyed. I've been doing everything to make you happy ok and I'm being a good boyfriend x
Her) You know what ya right let's leave it till tomorrow x
Me) Baby what's wrong? Oh don't... .what have I done? Don't do this please... .you were invited. You declined. Don't do this please... .


Almost sounds like an attack. You are telling her who she is. You start JADE quite a bit. You automatically take on that you did something wrong. Lots of trying to sooth.

Her) And I believed we were comnicating and no longer assuming and talking... and I'm also not happy you told <male friend> we was going to therapy... .can we have anything private ever x
Me) We are communicating... .I'm sorry you're miffed but I really don't know what I've done to upset you. You need to be more specific and give me details x

This would have been a great time to validate. Unfortunately it came across to her as invalidating. She says, "We aren't communicating." You say, "Yes we are." Invalidation can be so subtle. Sounds like she may feel embarrassed or just wanted to keep things private. By saying, "You need to... ." can come across as being domineering. Perhaps asking it as a question, "Could you be more specific about what you mean?"

Her) We'll talk tomorrow x
Me) Yeah righto goodnight x
Me) I'll wait for you to talk to me ok... .coz I'm at a loss as to why u r annoyed. I hope you tell me... love ya tho x
Me) Have you had a drink? You sound like you have and trying to sabotage my night with <male friend>... .I hope not baby... .please don't do this x
Her) No I'm just miffed so yes let's leave it x
Me) Well you're the one not communicating... .OK.  I'm used to it. You go in a mood... .I ask you what's up and you say nothing... .brilliant... .Yeah to quote a phrase from yesterday "changes are a foot"... .I think you're right. Go to bed
Me) I'm gonna be honest <her name>... .what you did tonight was extremely immature... .I thought we had got to a stage where we are talking about what bugs us. For you to just get annoyed with me, and just leave me wondering... .again... is testament to how you are and always will be. I asked you to tell me what was wrong... .and I've no idea... abs no idea... .for you to switch off again is unacceptable. It's unfair and I hope when you have sobered up in the morning you will realise how non productive this is... .you contact me first <her name> coz ain't doing it... .I ain't hurt or down or owt... .it's standard... .I can live without you when you get in a mood... .and I'll go out and have the best fun and when you've got over your mood, I'll come running as I usually do. So anyway. Cheers for tonight... .did I get in a mood with you when you didn't want to see me last night? No I didn't. Thanks <her name>


It seems like she wants to exit the conversation until tomorrow, which was probably better because going into details like this through text rarely work. I'm not quite sure what happened here but it went a little haywire. It seems like you got into some black & white thinking, using phrases like "always", began attacking her, and rejecting her. You put the responsibility of contacting you on her although you were the one that said you don't need her. I don't know what the historical context of things between you is like, but I know for myself I often escalate things.

From these texts I can't tell where she wanted to ruin your night or even that she was upset about you being out for the evening. I saw her say that she was not happy about it being known that you guys were going to counseling. Just my opinion.
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Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life Proverbs 13:12

confusedbloke
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 205


« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2017, 01:14:27 PM »

Hi Tattered,

Thanks for taking the time to reply...
I agree with everything you have written there... .Its just that its been 2.5 years of this and Im just drained now and don't know whether I'm coming or going.
I like the idea of using probing questions instead of responses that require yes / no.

I said I was bored because I wanted her to think that I was thinking about her... .which I was, coz I love her.  I absolutely never thought that she could perhaps take it as Id rather be there than with her... .  Wow, thats opened my eyes to her psychy... .But yeah I can totally see her feeling that way now...

You asked why I just didnt say "I love you" and leave it at that... .  Its because her moods change so sharply and I just wanted to be prepared... Its unnerving.

Im looking at the articles on here about JADEing.  And my god that is one thing I absolutely do... .I dont stop... It makes no difference though... I go on and on and on trying to "educate" her... .

Its really hard isnt it?  Its crazy... .

She got back to me at lunch today with a "I dont care" type text... .anyway it escalated and we didnt go to counselling and im now about to go out with <male friend from yesterday>.
She said it was because i didnt consider her yesterday.  Ive asked her to explain but she just repeats that... .I dont know what that means.

I asked her to come with us... .  I go there every wednesday with the kids... .  Just usually shes off grid and never comes... .  She said I just didn't consider her... .I'm at a loss... .

I just need to vent... .  So now we arent speaking and the whole process continues until 5 days time when we both pine for each other and get on again...

I hate it... .what do I do now?  She just thinks so differently... .so sensitive... .arrrggghhhh!

SHe seems to hate me.  She hates everything I do, say and just everything... .Why cant she just be happy with me... .its soul destroying... .  She thinks I don't like her and want to do anything to get away from her... .I really don't!  I want to be with her... .

argghh!

And now shes ignoring me again... .

Thanks
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confusedbloke
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Posts: 205


« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2017, 03:58:27 AM »

Oops!

I think Ive really done it now... .

Things escalated yesterday.  She had ignored me again for several hours as per usual and I snapped.  We broke up 3 weeks ago for a week and during that time I went on a date.  I needed to see if there were any "sane" women out there - for want of a better word.  So last night I went out with my friend and got drunk.  I started the abusive texts to her as she was ignoring me again... .It drives me insane... .and in the midsts of it all, I told her I went on a date... .  She told me to f*** myself... .

This morning I tried to reason why I went on a date, but I might as well have been talking to a 3 year old... .  I said we can still salvage this and she just responded with "go"... .

I cant stand the 5 days of radio silence from her... .its torturous... .  why do they do it?

So I guess now, best course of action is to leave her be... .  Is that the best thing to do?


Thanks
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Tattered Heart
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Posts: 1943



« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2017, 09:25:28 AM »

Tough situation. It's so hard not to go chasing when you get a text that makes you nervous. I'm resisting the urge to JADE with my H via text right now because he misunderstood something from last night and responded sharply in a text.

Many of us on here have tried marriage counseling. It usually doesn't go well. Could you continue counseling for just yourself? For me it was very helpful in teaching me how to speak up for myself and to begin taking care of myself better. It's hard to maintain a healthy balance when being bombarded with constant negativity from our pwBPD.

It's really hard not to take things so personal when you are being either attacked or ignored by your pwBPD. I have to remind myself that it is the mental illness and if it wasn't being directed at me then it would be directed at someone else. In their mind, they are unable to see someone as both good and bad in the same person. They can only see them as all good or all bad.
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Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life Proverbs 13:12

confusedbloke
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2017, 10:44:00 AM »

Ive been looking into the JADE situation.  And the more i look into it, the more I realise I do it.  I always justify myself... .always argue my point (until I'm blue in the face)... .because she just doesn't get it and its frustrating.  I constantly defend and explain.

I guess in a rational relationship we do these things so that the other understands why we did a certain thing... .a way of calming a situation, and therefore forming a trusting bond.  But it looks like it just makes a relationship here, worse.
She just doesnt get it... .  Ive finally realised it.  It is a mental illness, but I forget.  Shes a very beautiful girl and because she looks like anyone else, I forget and think its a constant attack against me... .and tbf it is also!

Regarding the couples counselling, I was reluctant to go at first because I knew about BPD... .and as I said on here 1.5 years ago, im no doctor, so cannot make that diagnosis... .but she has so many traits its just really incredible.
I thought it wouldnt be of much help either... .But I wanted to appease her by going and showing that I was committed and hoped it would perhaps allow us to communicate better.

She is suffering from depression at the moment, off work (well she walked out again)... .Shes worked about 3 months in the 2.5 years Ive known her... .so I know shes not the happiest at the moment either... .but its dragging me down... .
She drinks heavily and 6 weeks ago had a seizure... .That panicked me to the extreme.  She started an alcoholics group and was feeling positive.  That lasted 2 weeks and shes back on the bottle again.  Every sensible thought in my head is saying "get the hell out of there"... .  so why cant I?

She has now sworn at me since lunch time over text about the date I went on... .  I "E"xplained, that we were on a break... .I "J"ustified it happened because she ignored me... .I ":)"efended my actions... .And "A"rgued that if she didnt behave like that she would have me to herself... .
She responded with "Cheat"... .  Then "F*** you"... .and pretty much the 2 or 3 word answers that Ive become accustomed to.  Basically it fell on deaf ears... .as always... .Ive tried and tried to JADE and its fruitless... .She then ended us... .and continued to call me a cheat... .So I ended the conversation by saying "I dont have to justify anything to you anymore"... .

Im a really good bloke, I know I am, and a popular funny chap... .  So I'll survive if we do stay our separate ways, but she's always on my mind.

And youre right - she does only see me as amazing, or the devil... .  Its such strange thinking and I think I would need training in order to be able to have a good relationship with her... .She's so demanding and such high maintenance and its always about her... Everything is about how she's feeling... .my feelings arent considered in the slightest... .  Even my 6 year old boy shows signs of empathy toward me... .

Its Friday and I finish work in 15 mins... .I need a beer Smiling (click to insert in post)
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waverider
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2017, 09:21:07 AM »

TBH I would avoid unnecessary texting with a pwBPD as they have an ability to read stuff into them that isn't there, and sometimes it is but you dont know it.

eg often you are testing them to make sure you are not in trouble, you are after validation ("better call or they will get cranky", they sense this pressure as though you are guilting them, so they snap back as they feel pressured. You end up in the very trouble that you were checking to see if you weren't in. Meanwhile you delude yourself into thinking you were thinking of them, but you weren't, you were thinking of yourself.
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Gemsforeyes
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Relationship status: Ended 2/2020
Posts: 1135


« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2017, 01:16:07 AM »

Dear Confusedbloke-
I'm sorry you're having such a difficult go of this.  You know, I've found that extended texting with "normal" people is an insane way to communicate.  Something ALWAYS gets misconstrued.

I hope things get ironed out.  Sometimes it's best to keep to the initial message... .I love you, goodnight.  Straight to the point, no confusion.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

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