I don't want to live

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I have been hit by a train.

I don't know what happened to me.  18 months ago I met the girl of my dreams.  I was attracted to her quirkiness.  Successful graphic design artist.  Covered in tattoos.  She told me she loved me after two weeks.  The sex was the best ever.  Something was "off."  She was moving so quickly and I was trying to slow things down a little, because I was a little trepid about her behavior.  At times maniacally happy.  She would cry in happiness over a career accomplishment and cry in anguish over her past.  These are the indicators I failed to acknowledge or at least pause to think about:

                         - She detests her own mother.  Hates her. She seems to think her mother took part in killing her father, who was paralyzed (M.S.) her entire life.  She
                           brought her mother up every day.
                         - She speaks to nobody in her family.
                         - Her exes eat out of the palm of her hand.
                         - Inability to not be in a mind altered state.  Smokes pot every 30 minutes.  Something I can't do much of due to my career.  Tried to slow down but
                            started boozing a little too much.
                         - Alluded to hating kids.  Not a sin but something seemed off.
                         - Scoliosis of the spine.  Metal rods in her back.  Not her fault, but near daily pain was a contributing factor.

Most of her friends were either guys or women who aren't a threat.  This in no way is a judgement regarding sexuality, but it's notable that her best friend is a brooding lesbian who unfortunately is angry at who knows what, but also hates her mother.

The sex the sex the sex.  I was the best ever according to her (bull___).  She put me on a pedestal I didn't belong on.  We cooked together, etc.

The first time she met my dad, I picked her up and she was drunk, after having cocktails with a bunch of guy friends.  I wish I would have sent her away, but I already started making excuses for her and rationalizing, because I felt like her king.  My kids (daughter 21, son 19) quickly became exasperated around her seemingly boundless love and energy, but never voiced a complaint because they want dad to be happy.

The honeymoon period dissipated into frequent complaints about not spending enough time.  She got pissed at me when I recommended we spend the night in separate homes when my kids were over, stating (verbatim), "Your daughter is staying with guys and f%^&ing them!" 

Why didn't I run?     I was an attractive, professional, active male.   I started chain smoking with her.  My friends mentioned she seemed "off."  I made excuses.  My family was too gracious to say anything.  My exes were wondering what I saw in her physically (an angel I would tell them).   My partner at work warned me that she would wreck my life but he couldn't put his finger on it.

But her friends and acquaintances think she's magically attractive.

Things got real bad real quick.  Long story short, she broke up with me every other day and I would beg for her to take me back.  I'm serious.  Every other day.  She would rage at me during fights and kick me out of her home, only to call me when I was in my car and ask if I was coming back.  I tried to make a break once and break up with her in my car and she threw food all over my brand new vehicle.  She never truly apologized for anything... .ever.

Things have been going back and forth forever.  I began lying to family and friends out of embarrassment.   She recently started getting physically ill with possible M.S. symptoms, and I became a codependent obsessive trying to win her love by taking care of her.  Her neurologist sent her to a psychiatrist, who immediately put her on a cocktail of 5 psych meds.  Her moods evened out.  She lost all use for me overnight and sent me on my way... .

I found out she's sleeping with a local stud bartender at a popular cocaine hangout where I live.

I am in an empty cave devoid of any feeling except my desire for another dose of love from her.  My dreams are filled with her having sex with the new guy.  Therapy isn't working.  I've lost my will.  My kids intervened and I smile and say everything will be ok, but it's not.  I can't work.  I can't eat.  I enjoy nothing  I can't live.

Thank you for reading this.  If anyone is recognizing these symptoms in your relationship, I'm begging you to run away as fast as you can.  Please run away.  I've lost my soul.       
                   

[Helplessly]

I have been hit by a train.

I don't know what happened to me.  18 months ago I met the girl of my dreams.  I was attracted to her quirkiness.  Successful graphic design artist.  Covered in tattoos.  She told me she loved me after two weeks.  The sex was the best ever.  Something was "off."  She was moving so quickly and I was trying to slow things down a little, because I was a little trepid about her behavior.  At times maniacally happy.  She would cry in happiness over a career accomplishment and cry in anguish over her past.  These are the indicators I failed to acknowledge or at least pause to think about:

                         - She detests her own mother.  Hates her. She seems to think her mother took part in killing her father, who was paralyzed (M.S.) her entire life.  She
                           brought her mother up every day.
                         - She speaks to nobody in her family.
                         - Her exes eat out of the palm of her hand.
                         - Inability to not be in a mind altered state.  Smokes pot every 30 minutes.  Something I can't do much of due to my career.  Tried to slow down but
                            started boozing a little too much.
                         - Alluded to hating kids.  Not a sin but something seemed off.
                         - Scoliosis of the spine.  Metal rods in her back.  Not her fault, but near daily pain was a contributing factor.

Most of her friends were either guys or women who aren't a threat.  This in no way is a judgement regarding sexuality, but it's notable that her best friend is a brooding lesbian who unfortunately is angry at who knows what, but also hates her mother.

The sex the sex the sex.  I was the best ever according to her (bull___).  She put me on a pedestal I didn't belong on.  We cooked together, etc.

The first time she met my dad, I picked her up and she was drunk, after having cocktails with a bunch of guy friends.  I wish I would have sent her away, but I already started making excuses for her and rationalizing, because I felt like her king.  My kids (daughter 21, son 19) quickly became exasperated around her seemingly boundless love and energy, but never voiced a complaint because they want dad to be happy.

The honeymoon period dissipated into frequent complaints about not spending enough time.  She got pissed at me when I recommended we spend the night in separate homes when my kids were over, stating (verbatim), "Your daughter is staying with guys and f%^&ing them!" 

Why didn't I run?     I was an attractive, professional, active male.   I started chain smoking with her.  My friends mentioned she seemed "off."  I made excuses.  My family was too gracious to say anything.  My exes were wondering what I saw in her physically (an angel I would tell them).   My partner at work warned me that she would wreck my life but he couldn't put his finger on it.

But her friends and acquaintances think she's magically attractive.

Things got real bad real quick.  Long story short, she broke up with me every other day and I would beg for her to take me back.  I'm serious.  Every other day.  She would rage at me during fights and kick me out of her home, only to call me when I was in my car and ask if I was coming back.  I tried to make a break once and break up with her in my car and she threw food all over my brand new vehicle.  She never truly apologized for anything... .ever.

Things have been going back and forth forever.  I began lying to family and friends out of embarrassment.   She recently started getting physically ill with possible M.S. symptoms, and I became a codependent obsessive trying to win her love by taking care of her.  Her neurologist sent her to a psychiatrist, who immediately put her on a cocktail of 5 psych meds.  Her moods evened out.  She lost all use for me overnight and sent me on my way... .

I found out she's sleeping with a local stud bartender at a popular cocaine hangout where I live.

I am in an empty cave devoid of any feeling except my desire for another dose of love from her.  My dreams are filled with her having sex with the new guy.  Therapy isn't working.  I've lost my will.  My kids intervened and I smile and say everything will be ok, but it's not.  I can't work.  I can't eat.  I enjoy nothing  I can't live.

Thank you for reading this.  If anyone is recognizing these symptoms in your relationship, I'm begging you to run away as fast as you can.  Please run away.  I've lost my soul.       
                   

[roberto516]

Welcome Helplessly! You are in the right place.

You're story mirrors many of our situations, and experiences. I understand the pain all too well. The feeling that life is over, has no meaning, devoid of anything positive. We all have. It's one of the worst experiences someone can ever have. Please continue to share here. Keep reading some of the topics. Educate yourself about what this was, and what occurred.

Therapy didn't help for me in the beginning. Not at all. I'd feel worse. But please don't stop sharing here, and commenting on other posts. We need support in this dark time, and it's the toughest thing in the world to try and stay involved, interact with people.

How long ago did the final breakup happen?

[vanx]

I feel for you completely. I was in the hole about 6 months. Some days are better than others, but I'm crawling out.
You're in a crisis, so I will keep it short. Your pain is real. It's gonna hurt, but you will be okay. You need a lot of self-compassion and patience.
I believe there is a great importance to this pain, and you will grow from it. The reward is you will be stronger and much more aware of the healthier, more joyful love and relating you sought and deserve. At least, this is what I believe.
This is the dark night of the soul, my friend. We are all here for you.

[Helplessly]

Technically it ended in April on her birthday.  But I hung on as "friends" nursing her through her symptoms every day.  Being near her relieved my anxiety and being away gave me heart palpitations.  For some reason she wanted to have sex with me two weeks ago today.  It was awesome as usual, except that during the act I looked into her eyes and made the mistake of telling her I love her.  I received a blank stare in response that would make you vomit if you saw it.  We had sex the following morning.  Kissed each other goodbye before work.  I left town and she went NC on me.  I was 1100 miles away.  On social media I see her making plans to meet this dude at a popular local coke/music bar.  I'm 1100 miles away.  Tell me she didn't know I was seeing this.

I got back into town and managed to see her at her house for dinner a few times but my tears would flow freely and her empathy was drained.  two days ago she texted me and stated she wishes me and my family the best, but that she's signing off.

Not sure I can pull through this

[Emotions]

Helplessly, all I can tell you is to hang on tight for a couple weeks. Do what you can to get your emotions and chemicals in your brain balanced... .I.e. Excersise eat right sleep well and avoid triggers... .after a couple weeks it gets better... .then a month, and so on... .hang tough and don't let her pull you down! You CAN do this and then you realize you wouldn't want that stress and tension anyway, regardless of her beauty or good qualities... .she also has not so good qualities, and beauty is only skin deep... .you have depth beyond that I'm sure.

[Fie]

Hello helplessly 

I too have been were you are, and I understand.
I would like to recommend you the book 'the journey from abandonment to healing'. It helped me a lot.

xx Fie

[Panshekay]

Please hang on... .minute by minute, it does get better. It's like they can sense people who are caretakers, who are compassionate, kind and loving.

 I am truly sorry for what you have gone through and are going through….your letter is heartbreaking and sounds very familiar.  So much of what you have said sounds like things our son has gone through.  These people become everything you have ever wanted or wished for, it is magical.  The sex is always amazing, they are usually very charismatic, flirty, beautiful until you see them for what they truly are, which is evil…... there is a song by Taylor Swift that says it all…what’s sad is our sons SD who was 9 at the time said to me, “ Gramie you know that song “Blank Space” that sounds like my mom”…... and she is right…dead right.  I think the part the says “I’m a nightmare dressed as a daydream”  is spot on.

Please try and take some comfort in the fact that you are surviving it, if only minute by minute. Our son met his soon to be EX uBPDw when he was working overseas.  He came home and went down to see some friends about 175 miles away.  That is where he met her.  She was newly divorced with a 2 yo D.  Our son hadn’t dated much at all…... at first she was a dream come true.  I remember when we first met her.  It was on a camping trip.  Her 2yoD toddled close to the lake and I kept thinking why isn’t she watching her better?  I was a nervous wreck, worried that she was going to drown so I took on that role of keeping my eye on her. When we got back home my husband said  “that girl is going to end up killing our son one day”  I was appalled, I thought, how did he come up with that?  Then our younger son walked in and said the very same thing.  As a parent you wish you could go back and change something…... so many regrets.

When they first met our son had an excellent job and made great money, he had a nice home….all gone within a year of meeting her.  She has literally and systematically tried to  ruin his entire life.  First she alienated his family, many many breakups that we weren’t aware of, and was physically and mentally abusive to our son.  They weren’t even together when she got pregnant….she came over to our house with a cake and about 25 pacifiers on it (really) and 2  shirts that she had made saying we were going to be grandparents….all I could think of was “Who is the father?”  I remember her saying to me “I know that YOU wish YOU were having _____ (our son)___ baby, YOU wish you were pregnant with his child, and she said even more shocking crap.  I was stunned that someone could even think up these things much less say them to me….When she was she was about 6 months pregnant she got angry about something and took her D and left…no one knew where she was, she was gone for about 4 days and when she came back she acted like nothing was wrong….When she was 8 months pregnant she called and said “We are getting married at the court house in 90 min if you want to attend”.  We lived 45 min away.  At the time I had cancer so I wasn’t working, we did make it but she was angry that there wasn’t anything planned for them, no party or gifts…THEY had to buy pizza.  When our son decided to go to college to be a nurse that ended up being a huge ordeal, she was very jealous. One morning he was getting ready for school and she decided to throw flour on him, then oil, all the while laughing hysterically…then a gallon of milk.  SHE told me this story, she told me how she had kicked our son in the balls over and over again because he was nothing but a wimp….

When she gave birth to our grandson, the TV in the hospital room had to be covered because she could see her reflection in it. I felt so bad for the staff there. I work for the hospital so I was embarrassed.  She screamed over and over “get this thing out of me”  This was our sons first child…he was 29. He wasn’t allowed to be emotional, or pay attention to the baby.  All and I mean ALL his attention had to be on her….so I sat there after she gave birth and watched my SGD and held my newborn grandson the entire night.  A few days after she got home from the hospital  I got a call from her telling me I had to come over, she was crying and hysterical.  I got there and stayed the entire night, I was very afraid she was going to end up killing everyone….as I said I work for the hospital, so I stayed until I could convince her to go to the ER where she was admitted into a Mental Facility, her 3rd time in 3 years (Bipolar Diagnosis) .  She convinced our son that I was a liar and tricked her into being admitted.  I loved and cared for her, I wanted her to get well.  I wanted her to take her medicine. At the time I had no idea what her true diagnosis was.

Then out of the blue one day she decided that she wanted to move back down to where they had met because people like that always think running away is the answer, its going to be perfect….she made sure to destroy our sons relationship with his sister and brother….within 2 weeks they were gone.  Here we had a son who we were extremely close to and a new grandson.  A few months prior I started seeing marks on our sons head and body, a black eye.  I remember asking him what had happened and he said “Oh, I hit my head on the kitchen cabinet”   I thought , Wow…... he is an abused spouse….I had no idea until then.  Once they moved out of town we probably saw them 3 times in 3 years.  Prior to moving she had drawn on a card showing where they were moving and where we lived, it was all beautiful with flowers and a car saying how they would visit often…It was all BS.  She had 7 jobs in 1 year….Then she cheated on him…and that is what did it for him.  One time he called me and said she was breaking everything in the house, her 3rd flat screen TV….she literally broke everything in the house.  I asked where the kids were and he said they were hiding in the closet….and I said “Son, don’t you see a problem with that?  That isn’t fair to your kids” and he said “Mom, they are used to it”  and I said…” listen to what you just said”   

We didn’t know it at the time but she had been telling everyone and anyone how our son was abusive and beat her all the time.  So she moved out, left him with the kids….he had them 70 percent of the time.  She had many many many boyfriends, who were either alcoholics or meth addicts.  Then she met “the one”  he lives out of state, so she tried to convince our son to move out of state, but he said no……that is when the false allegations of sexual child abuse and beatings and guns came into play, 11 allegations in a little over a year… every single time he has had to prove he is innocent….They have been separated for 3.5 years and he has been trying to divorce her for 1.5 years.  $20,000.00 in attorney fees, has almost lost his nursing career because of the allegations, is not allowed to see his SD who his wife has convinced to lie for her….now she is alienating his son who is 6.  Filling his head full of lies.  What I can tell you is pretty much everything that comes out of their mouth is a lie and they truly believe its the truth.  Her lies are becoming our grandchildren’s truth. One time I went with our son to speak with DHS about a false allegation.  I sat around a table with 6 case workers….(I used to be a case worker)  who told me they felt his wife and SD were forthcoming and truthful…... and that is still going on.  Our son fears for his life, has security cameras in his house…he never knows what is going to happen next.  He waits for the cops to show up at his door….he has not had a normal life since he met her….there are others who have worse stories than us…this site is full of them…... I am thankful our son still has his job and has a great attorney.  We go to court the end of June for his divorce and child custody.  I pray constantly that her final revenge isn’t going to be taking our grandchildren’s and sons lives…Its like I can see a huge train wreck coming down the line, but no one will listen.  It’s a hopeless feeling.  One thing that she didn’t count on was my love for our son and grandchildren, I will never stop fighting for them, NEVER!  Please keep fighting your despair, think of your children and parents.  This one person is not worth it.  You will find the happiness you deserve one day.   Read everything you can and reach out to others here... .Blessings.

1.  Blank Space
Taylor Swift
Nice to meet you, where you been?
I could show you incredible things
Magic, madness, heaven sin
Saw you there and I thought
Oh my God, look at that face
You look like my next mistake
Love’s a game, want to play?
New money, suit and tie
I can read you like a magazine
Ain't it funny, rumors, lie
And I know you heard about me
So hey, let's be friends
I'm dying to see how this one ends
Grab your passport and my hand
I can make the bad guys good for a weekend
So it's gonna be forever
Or it's gonna go down in flames
You can tell me when it's over
If the high was worth the pain
Got a long list of ex-lovers
They'll tell you I'm insane
'Cause you know I love the players
And you love the game
'Cause we're young and we're reckless
We'll take this way too far
It'll leave you breathless
Or with a nasty scar
Got a long list of ex-lovers
They'll tell you I'm insane
But I've got a blank space baby
And I'll write your name
Cherry lips, crystal skies
I could show you incredible things
Stolen kisses, pretty lies
You're the king baby I'm your Queen
Find out what you want
Be that girl for a month
Wait the worst is yet to come, oh no
Screaming, crying, perfect storm
I can make all the tables turn
Rose gardens filled with thorns
Keep you second guessing like
"Oh my God, who is she?"
I get drunk on jealousy
But you'll come back each time you leave
'Cause darling I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream
 

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Helplessly,

I'm so sorry to hear of your pain.  We have all been hit by that train and as you will see, are all still here to tell the tale and take comfort from each other.  You are not alone in this and please do come here to talk about how you are feeling.  It will help.  Sometimes putting words to it can ease the emotion.  

I know you are feeling desolate right now and devastated at what has happened.  It is a grieving process we must go through and a break up with a pwBPD is like no other break up.  That's why we need this site and I thank my stars daily that it's here for us, to connect to others who are further down the road than we are and people who are going through the exact same thing right now.  One of the first things I felt compelled to do was to find out what the hell had just happened to me and to understand why that was.  You will find tons of really good insights on here that will help you to somehow rationalise your experience because it does feel unreal, like a horrible dream somehow.  I found it hard for my mind to comprehend and building that knowledge definitely helped with my own healing.

I'd strongly recommend the articles you will see above at the top of the board as a starting point.  In particular the one I keep going back to time and again is the one on surviving a breakup with a person with BPD.  It describes so well how all consuming, intense and passionate the relationship can be and so destructive at the same time.  It explained a lot to me about how my ex processes things and that was really helpful to know.

Try to look after yourself in whatever way you can.  :)o the basics, eat, sleep, etc. and if possible push yourself to do something active to get moving.  It will help you to balance some of the intense emotions you're going through.  I got my backside in the gym and went practically every day.  My body is grateful and it gave me a release as well as something else to focus on.  It's great to hear your family are there for you.  If people offer support, accept it.  This is hard, but you can do it.  We will all be here too, spurring you on.  Stay in touch.

Love and light x  

[Outoftheshadows]

Helplessly, I shed a tear for you because I know the turmoil that you are facing. Ten months ago I was in a very similar situation. I was isolated and fantasized about my imminent death. It is worth noting that the man you are now is the antithesis of the man you once we're and the man you will become. It is imperative that self care is your priority at the moment. No drink, drugs, bad food or bad people. You will heal, she, however, will repeat the cycle.

[Huh?]

Holy crap!

[hope2727]

I am so sorry that you are suffering. I know it doesn't seem like it at the moment but I want you to know that you are not alone. Three years ago I was in the depths of despair (or the bogs of eternal stench as I like to call it) and didn't know how I would survive. Now I am half way through a masters degree, have made new friends, travelled, worked, socialized and completed some cool projects. I have even taken up a new musical instrument. You will survive. It will hurt really badly for a long time but it will get better. It is not a straight line to recovery, there are many ups and downs, but recovery does happen. Come back and write to us regularly. Read the other posts and lessons. And eat the expensive ice cream. It has medicinal properties I swear. Meanwhile here is a virtual hug. 

[Turkish]

Helplessly,

This sounds so tough,  especially with the meds on her side,  so her emotions and behaviors are all over the place. Given that,  it's hard to find a target to either validate or detach from (as in a solid place from which you could get closure or answers).

What do you mean,  exactly,  when you say,  you've "lost your will?

T

[Lollypop]

Hey there Helplessly

Just wondering how you're doing today?

Lollypop

[Skip]

my training ground for relationships was a minefield. My parents were toxic. Ethnic household... grandmother (maternal) lived with us. Turmoil every day.  :)rama and anxiety.  Normalcy didn't exist and I still don't know what normal is.

This often has a lot to do with the reason we struggle with rejection. This is probably something to explore a little latter in your recovery.

It's been over a week since I set the bridge aflame with a scathing email to my ex creature-thing. And I feel great about it. It was full of all of the things I never had the courage to say because my infant brain didn't want to get put in the corner and abandoned. There was no "you hurt me" crap. No "what goes around comes around."  It was the DEVALUATION that we all sorely need to apply

In the end I didn't take it lying down.

Was sending a nasty email the way you stood up for yourself?

Part of the issue is that above and beyond any BPD or HPD or anything (I'm not a psychologist), there was a rotten side to her. This rotten thing emerged. So I'm just saying she was a complete jerk.

her behavior and actions put everyone on edge and emotionally exhausted. Foul mouthed. Insulting. Ignored boundaries.

The only person I need to forgive is myself for putting myself and my family through this experience with a GUTTER RAT!

You mention her being a psychopath/sociopath, evil, monster, vampire, creature, etc., but very little on specifics.  You really haven't said anything about your relationship at all - mostly generalities about "bad people".

Can you tell us more about your specific relationship?

Why was she so compelling to you? What was it?

How did she treat you? Was there problems all along, or mostly toward the end?

Did she do anything that was physically abusive or pathological or illegal?

It should help to talk it out, work through it with the specific of your situation and get past the generalities about everyone else here.  

[Helplessly]

Of course it helps to talk about the specifics. That's what therapy has been useful for. That as well as serious introspection.

Illegal acts?  Yup. Trashed the interior of my car when I suggested the relationship wasn't working out.  Slammed a drinking glass into my face when I mentioned I wanted to break up. Hit. Punched.

Like many people here I have analyzed as nauseum. I have journaled. The nasty letter you mention was very cathartic.  Calling it a nasty letter is a bit simplistic. It wasn't a splash of black paint. Before my final communication I was very careful about what my intentions were.  Did I want a response?  Was I lying to myself?  Was I simply trying to strike a chord?

I'll maintain my position regarding my disgust for her and many of the abusers I'm reading about.

Not everyone's response to my angry rant has been negative. Some people want to take back what they gave up or had stolen from them.

As for me, just because I lost all sense of boundaries doesn't mean I need to employ some sort of biblical forgiveness.

Somewhere in my other thread it was mentioned that my rant doesn't suggest that I'm feeling indifferent. i can understand why. But you'd be surprised.

The one thing I keep saying is that not every situation is the same!  I'm no professional. some of the stories here just look like bad breakups. I've made sure in my case that I didn't plug in any disorders to fit my storyline.

There are cases here however, that are sickening. People being just tortured. Beyond any disorder. Gross.

One can take the position that it's all about self healing or forgiveness. Another can say it's about self healing and that forgiveness is for the birds.

I'll say it for he last time. NOT EVERY CASE IS THE SAME. I see people detaching from relationships and the pain they are going through. I'll still say that when you engage with a PD you are at war. With them and yourself. That doesn't mean you need to engage the PD. But you are at war nonetheless and you most certainly will feel the post trauma.

But for any and all abusers, for any trash who fu*k with their victims kids, who intentionally hurt others, who physically assault their partner, mentally torture others, they can rot. Others can turn their cheeks and weep for their wounded souls.  That doesn't work for all of us

[Emotions]

Although I probably won't ever express this type of feeling to my ex, I would take helplessly on my side, and let him do my dirty work for me  

[Skip]

Those were serious and sincere questions. I respect that you do not want to engage right now.

That's what therapy has been useful for. That as well as serious introspection.

OK.

Like many people here I have analyzed as nauseum.

Many are more than 5-6  weeks in.  

I understand that you are angry. I understand that it is safer to make this class warfare and make it about everyone else rather than open the door to the very personal wounds that had you feeling suicidal 45 days ago.

When you are ready to talk, we will be here.

[NotMuchHelp]

You should feel flattered. It takes just as much energy to hate as it does to love, maybe even more. Have you hated someone? Not even an ex, a friend or someone who just turns your stomach? It takes energy, but a normal person, eventually realizes the energy it takes to hate someone. So instead you become indifferent or tolerable of said person. You're occupying space in her head. Guess what? You won! Carry on with your life knowing that.

[Helplessly]

I haven't been here in a while.  I can see how my message of being "at war" with yourself and a disordered ex may not fit the objectives of this board.  But Skip, in your last post I got the impression you felt I was evading some questions.  I'll address them.  But before I do that, I'll say that I haven't backed down from my point about the war analogy.  But the real fighting occurs in our minds.  That includes doing the reconnaissance to find out why we became enmeshed with someone who clearly, wasn't good for us to say the least.  We weren't good for them either.

Working backwards subjectively I found points where I was exhibiting PD traits.  Particularly with the sex/intimacy.  Going all in to the point that I was subconsciously "setting the hook."  That's where we get into trouble.  Especially  if we "meet our match" in terms of neurosis.

But I won't budge from my position regarding abusers... people who intentionally try to physically or emotionally hurt another.  The stories on here are bone chilling.

SO anyway Skip;

"Can you tell us more about your specific relationship?"

The entire story is at the beginning of this thread.  I didn't leave much out.  We definitely triggered one another and this was the classic PD/Narc Giver story.  Classic.

"Why was she so compelling to you? What was it?"

Physically she was edgy and sultry looking.  Tattoos everywhere.  Pierced.  Very much like a pinup from airplane nose art.  She looked a little "off" and I liked the mystery.  I found her sexy.  Later... .actually only a week later...   I was compelled by what seemed to be lots of common interests.  We read the same books.  Both love music.  Bourbon.  Beer.  Movies.  She wanted to absorb all of my interests and I felt the same.  She was intelligent.  But the white knight in me emerged quickly.  She told me she had nobody in her life.  No family.  She told me she couldn't have kids due to titanium rods in her back  Hated her mom.  I thought, "jeez that's sad.  Such a pretty, sensitive (!) girl.  How is it that nobody has scooped her up and GIVEN HER THE FAMILY SHE DESERVES.  You can see how arrogant I was.  I told my kids, and they were broken hearted about her circumstances.  We invited her to Christmas dinner with my family and my kids gave her gifts.  She cried.  Said she felt so much "joy."  It's not hard to see where this would go.  And finally the sex.


"How did she treat you? Was there problems all along, or mostly toward the end?"

There were problems all along.  Unless I was 100% on my game I would be criticized.  Mostly for not spending enough time or attention.  If I wanted to take one of my kids out for dinner for some alone bonding time, I was excluding her.  When i invited her along, she would complain that we I wasn't giving her enough one on one.  These two scenarios would play out laughingly in rapid succession.  She wasn't thin skinned, she had no skin.  She interpreted every comment as an assault on her.  As far as the way she treated me... She either treated me like a king, or like crap.  Nothing in between.  She said things during fights that left me speechless.  She triangulated me and demonized me to her ex fiancee regularly and it crushed me.  I was reeling.  My role in the relationship, or I should say the way I treated her, deteriorated with my exhaustion.  I began avoiding her.  Staying at work late.  She picked up on it.  I became resentful.  She perceived it.  I decided to end the relationship.  Then came the answer to your question:

":)id she do anything that was physically abusive or pathological or illegal?"

After being out to dinner one night, she verbally started shredding me during the car ride home.  It was a fight that started at a bar/restaurant where i mentioned I might bartend a few nights a week when I retire from my current career.  Like, in three years.  I have a bartending background so... Anyway of course all this meant to her was that I wanted to work in a setting where I could sleep with models.  The screaming at me in the car.  Pointing her finger in my face.  I decided I had to save myself, and maybe her, by leaving the relationship.  Bad timing on my part.  I pulled in front of her apartment.  I calmly looked at her and said "we don't seem to work.'  She says, "oh yeah?"  I said, "Yeah. look at us."  She says, "ok motherf*cker!"  Takes a styrofoam container and throws a nearly full plate of leftover noodles and gravy (some german dish) all over me, and the inside of MY BRAND NEW car.  All over. smashing it into cushions.  spreading it on dash.  She looked at me.  I calmly wiped gravy out of my eyes.  Remained unfazed.  She took a heavy duty plastic travel mug thing from the center console containing a travel drink from earlier, and jammed it rim first into my face causing a perfect (well technically slightly concave) bleeding cut on the bridge of my nose.  I'm smiling as I type this because I couldn't believe it.  I could not believe what happened.  It cost me a fortune to detail my car and I found a mummified piece of beef in a side pocket over a year later.  You can laugh.  It's funny.  A week after that I went back for more and actually apologized for making her assault me.  She "forgave" me.  Sound familiar?  This was the beginning of my complete loss of self respect and identity... .

"It should help to talk it out, work through it with the specific of your situation and get past the generalities about everyone else here."


The last part of your sentence is a glaring generality.  I don't know everyone else here and I speak only about the truly rotten abusive people who intentionally hurt others.  I still can't diagnose my ex because I'm not qualified.  But I feel my disdain is justified, with or without a diagnosis.  I made excuses for her for 18 months.  She kicked me when I was down and there was a sadistic side in the end.  This wasn't a case of me being the only one who noticed her cruel behavior.  Christ, I had an ex-girlfriend intervene two months ago to slap reality into me.  And I see people getting kicked around on this forum.  Horribly.  I get the sense that yelling "RUN!" is overstepping the goals and boundaries of this forum.  I hope that real victims here have advocates in their lives who can give them a nudge.  Had I held on to my anger a little longer after the physical assault, I would have saved myself a lot of trauma.

Finally I will REITERATE, that this is truly about me and why I was open to a toxic relationship.  I'm figuring it out


 

[Helplessly]

Oh and I want to send a sincere thank you to the person who reached out and clarified the goals and BOUNDARIES of this forum. The word "boundaries" will become songspeech to the uninitiated and I recommend respecting yours and those of others.  And I don't think songspeech is a word but it should be.

I wouldn't recommend that anyone wallow in anger and hatred for very long but was my therapist who got me in touch with my anger. I received a few private messages about this and I'll say that my therapist was walking me through the gate to the next step in the grieving process. I hated myself.  I wanted to die. In my mind I could have done more. I felt I did everything wrong. Not one to judge, my therapist asked me when will I finally get mad at my ex for the things she did and said...  

It's hard. When I read threads where people are grieving over an 8 year relationship with a PD I shiver. OUR TOLERANCE FOR PAIN IS VERY HIGH. that's part of the problem. They have zero tolerance for emotional pain. PD individuals are lacking emotional skin.

You my friends, like me, are calloused and able to sustain repeated emotional beatings. Because it happened to us long ago and we learned to adapt. Never again.

[Turkish]

In my mind I could have done more. I felt I did everything wrong. Not one to judge, my therapist asked me when will I finally get mad at my ex for the things she did and said...  

I few months in,  and I think my ex was still living with us,  my T commented,  "finally, you're angry,  good!" I looked at him and thought,  "I thought I was angry." I never validated myself that I had a right to be. 

I won't judge you going back,  but that was commendable not to lash out likewise when she assaulted you in your car. 

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Helplessly,

I just wanted to say that it's great to see you're in a far better place than when this thread started.  Something is working for you, that's for sure.  Keep on trucking!   

Love and light x

[Helplessly]

I few months in,  and I think my ex was still living with us,  my T commented,  "finally, you're angry,  good!" I looked at him and thought,  "I thought I was angry." I never validated myself that I had a right to be. 

I won't judge you going back,  but that was commendable not to lash out likewise when she assaulted you in your car. 

It never crossed my mind to lash out physically, but don't let me off the hook yet.  After I got the bill for the car detailing I texted her and said, "Look I don't know what happened but you owe me $$.  I'll send you a pic of the bill."

She said "F*ck you I'm not paying."

So I responded with some choice words... "trash"  "classless"  "skank" 

I went back when I felt guilty for name calling.  I'm not implying that I'm any kind of saint but I felt like I was kicking a wounded puppy.  I KNEW there was something wrong with her emotionally and mentally.  Others knew.  This was the early stages of my codependency.  This is why I posted about getting angry and throwing their baggage back on their lawn where it belongs.  She knew she trashed my car and most likely bragged about it to her minions and orbiters.  She knew hew much it hurt to lash out at me and insult my daughter to me in ways that I'm embarrassed to say.

I took her accountability out of the equation because of the "tough upbringing" and because she had no family. 

***By the way in my experience, if a potential mate has zero contact with ANYONE in his/her family, tread very carefully.  I would say this is the mother of red flags.  She became increasingly contemptuous toward me as she started feeling I was seeing a pattern of behavior.  These people are VERY perceptive to physical cues, and I'm sure she saw looks of concern during manic episodes and rages.  So what does her family know?  Is she afraid she will be exposed?  Is she "that" niece or cousin that we all have?  The lost one?  I suspect so.***

So anyway, me going back started with my apology for "making her trash my car."  At this point I was slipping down an icy slope.

Harley Quinn thank you.  I'm doing better.  I must confess that I haven't done much proactively to heal other than therapy, self exploration, and simply letting this pass through me like a huge wave.  I started gaining weight back but not from eating salads.  I've eaten whatever I want when I'm hungry just because I was looking horribly gaunt.  Alcohol?  Well, it's summer time as we know... .  I'm a sailor and competitive golfer, and those things have always included beverages so I've imbibed as I always have.  No meditation.  No new hobbies.  I've just slowly climbed out of my hole.  I have nothing to measure it by so i don't know how effective this passive grieving has been. And as you know, I sort of see her for who she is and I don't like it and I'm disappointed in myself about it.

There was a recent incident that I would like to convey in an original post some time.  As a warning and an eye opener as to how our brains work... .and how we need to really ask ourselves how many traits we share with these people, or perhaps if these traits can be passed on in some strange way. 

[Harley Quinn]

There was a recent incident that I would like to convey in an original post some time.  As a warning and an eye opener as to how our brains work... .and how we need to really ask ourselves how many traits we share with these people, or perhaps if these traits can be passed on in some strange way.

Hi Helplessly,

I'll read that with interest.  As for your activities, it sounds to me like what you are doing is living life.  That's a plus all round 

Love and light x

[hope2727]

***By the way in my experience, if a potential mate has zero contact with ANYONE in his/her family, tread very carefully.  I would say this is the mother of red flags.

Be cautious with this one. I know what you mean but lets bear in mind that sometimes lovely people excise themselves from toxic families. I am an example of this. I love my family dearly. However, after being vilified, used, abused and having every boundary I tried to maintain repeatedly bashed I have distanced myself. I do have a "chosen" family that I love dearly. They have been my family such as it is for over 20 years. I wouldn't trade them for the world.

Just be aware that not all isolated family members can be painted with the same red cloth  

   hugs all

[Helplessly]

Be cautious with this one. I know what you mean but lets bear in mind that sometimes lovely people excise themselves from toxic families. I am an example of this. I love my family dearly. However, after being vilified, used, abused and having every boundary I tried to maintain repeatedly bashed I have distanced myself. I do have a "chosen" family that I love dearly. They have been my family such as it is for over 20 years. I wouldn't trade them for the world.

Just be aware that not all isolated family members can be painted with the same red cloth  

   hugs all

Hope, thank you for your response.  I don't mean to paint everyone who is detached from their family of origin with a broad brush.  That's why I said tread carefully.  I would still submit that you are probably in the minority, but I know nothing.   

[Fie]

Hello 

I would still submit that you are probably in the minority, but I know nothing.   

You could be right that it's a minority ! If it is, I am also one of them  :-)

[Turkish]

I had to go NC with my mother.  Since she's elderly,  her accusations crossed into those of elder abuse from a legal standpoint.  Still, I sympathize with it being at the very least a yellow flag.  I think the good thing may be to get to know someone well before committing or diving in too deep.  Everyone has wounds.