Spiritual Sister with BPD

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello everyone, I'm new to these forums. If anyone can contribute to help me with understanding how to deal with this, I would greatly appreciate it. I absolutely LOVE and adore my sister. I've grown up with her and I've always valued her. When she and I are good, we have so much fun together and have very deep conversations. When there is an argument, it has rarely ever been solved smoothly. In all of my life relationships, I've been in good communication with people with low levels of drama (except one terrible relationship I entered).

I've suspected my older sister (in her early 40's), has BPD. I'm writing this post because I got into a conversation with a friend of hers, who suspected something similar. Irionically, she is finished her Master's degree to be a therapist. BPD is nothing something she has ever spoken about, or acknowledged, nor it is something I've brought up. However, while I know it's not an "official" diagnosis, I am very into psychology and I've come across a few things that has me suspecting she has BPD, strongly suspecting... .

My sister, growing up, always said she felt so intensely, and in her words: compassionately. Her deep feelings feel very spiritual to her, and she always spoke of animals, crying out of compassion for them, etc. The story she has told herself her entire life is that she is the black sheep, the odd one, that no one understands her, and many arguments go to "I cannot trust you." Those words used to hit me like daggers, but now I see it's a defense mechanism and it hurts less after a years of hearing the same thing. While I've definitely said things that were hurtful to her, I never meant to hurt her. I do regret some of the things I've said many years ago, but I cannot change those things---and she has done things to me as well as we have a long history together, but I really do let those things go and I don't try to bring up anything to hurt her, except in my attempt to solve a perception or communication issue. I don't bring up the past much at all, except when an argument has been unresolved.

So our last argument: I offered for her and her boyfriend to stay at my place sometime, so they could have some alone time together, as she was staying with his family. The offer was for a day I didn't have to work the next day, etc. She calls me randomly during a dinner date in the late evening (9 pm), asking if her and her boyriend could stay at my place that night. I told her it was so late minute and I was on a date. And when she wanted to stay in my bed, it stressed me out the last minute request, plus me having to clean the sheets, and the long 12 hour work day that awaited me with an early morning. I have a small place and it's tied in with my job, too. My stress levels went up really high. I have been trying to have more boundaries in my life, and I told her it wasn't a good day and I needed more notice than that, and that I was out to dinner. Granted, that ended in an argument of her saying, "I would never do this to you." But really, relying on me last minute and expecting me to put aside all of my plans for her unplanning is not something I would ever do to anyone. This was because she didn't want to pay for a hotel.

I'm someone that cannot stand disharmony and not talking, but boundaries are something I've needed so I put an intentional boundary there and it exploded in my face. I like to resolve problems soon because they tend to weigh on my heart and really hurts me... .My sister and I have not spoken in a year once before, and it really tore me up in a lot of ways. And over this last incident, she hasn't spoken to me in months, but we've had some terrible texting conversations between us, which was just bad communication. She recently wrote me a letter, which was basically everything that I ever said to her that still hurt her, and at the end of the letter she told me I could not respond. Basically, she is allowed to get all of her feelings out, but she will not listen to me and how I feel.

Then she accused me of saying things I never actually said. She said, "Mom said you said this... " And I actually never said those things. And so for a while I was defending myself on things I didn't say, which was incredibly frustrating. Also, my mother does say things wrong sometimes because she is on medication, and my sister knows that. For a long while, she has had issues with our mother. Our mother isn't perfect, she has heart issues the past couple of years, and my sister was born a heroin baby, if that gives you any clues. My sister's dad was never in the picture, and she always believed that was the source of her abandonment and trust issues.

However, my mother does have a good heart and intentions (and in a good place albeit not always emotionally, but that is the only mother I know and have) and I do confide in her because that is the type of relationship I have with my mother. My sister doesn't confide in her because she thinks she is protecting my mother, but in another way she cannot have a true relationship with my mother because her protecting is rather "secretive," in that she doesn't tell my mother much about her personal life, and my mother feels that she isn't being 100% genuine in the conversation. My sister has been this way towards my mother prior to her known heart condition. My mother thinks my sister is just talking to her because she believes my sister is afraid she's going to die soon. I think that's possibly true because for a long while, they didn't really have an honest relationship, but it also may not be true at all. My sister will call my mother in an attempt to "reach out," but when my mother calls her back immediately she does not pick up. It's weird.

There is this weird control thing with my sister, and she believes that both my mother and I are triangulating against her. While I can see how she does perceive this (I've really tried to see her life story the way it has played out and put myself in her shoes), it's a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point and she continues to perpetuate this story, but keeping the same patterns going. She continues to play like she is a victim, yet projects onto me saying things like, "Stop playing the victim." Like... .I'm just trying to communicate here and I have feelings, too. I also have projected onto her before, and while I'm merely human, I am a very emotionally aware person. Any issues I have in my friendships and relationships are solved within hours preferably, or definitely within days! I generally see these things as miscommunication and perception issues.

After years and just very recently being tired of defending things to her that I never said, I suggested that her, myself, and my mother get together and have a 100% genuine and real conversation about our feelings and the dynamics of our relationship. I wanted to clear the air about everything. I wanted us to have a change to have a NEW dynamic. I wanted my sister to know that we both love her and it's possible to have a 100% genuine relationship together.

I recently told my sister that I was going to have the type of relationship that I wanted to have with mom, which may look different than the relationship she has, or the way my sister wants me to communicate with my mom. I told my sister that I didn't want to have any secrets (frankly, I'm not good at keeping secrets and if something slips, I'm immediately blamed even though in my perception it is harmless. Like, she didn't want my mother to know things about her personal life or even me bringing her up in the conversation between my mother and I which was so unnatural for me, etc.) It just got into this form of control and I didn't want that in my life anymore. It was becoming toxic, this odd dynamic, of what I should and shouldn't say to protect my mother in her feelings, which I found created drama and I am an adult now... .

So my suggestion for us to all talk turned into her believing that this was an "intervention." I told her it wasn't an intervention, but a conversation face-to-face, without all of the "she said," stuff. She told me she would NEVER have an intervention. She keeps using the word intervention. I told her many times it was not an intervention. And I asked her why she was in school to be a therapist, but unwilling to talk this out? She said she read something about unconscious things between families can sometimes do more harm that good, etc. In my opinion, it's this whole control thing she has going on. I think it's rooted in some fear and her unwillingness to face something... .or maybe the emotions might feel too intense for her to experience?


I've called my mother and father hysterically crying because I just want things to be better, and my sister told me via text, "Oh go cry to mommy and daddy," or "grow up," etc. She has accused me of breaking off her dinner date with my mother on purpose, which I would actually never do nor desire AT ALL. My mother was so upset that she and I were not resolved because I further upset my mother by calling and crying because my sister refused to meet, that my mother said she didn't want to have a dinner anymore until we all met. I was crying and called my mother out of sadness because I cannot imagine this dynamic going on for the rest of my life and felt completely helpless to this and wanted to finally have a solution to all of this drama and I needed a listening ear. I never cared if they had a dinner date and I encouraged my mother to do what she was going to do. Eventually, they did have a dinner the next week, which was 100% fine by me. I want them to have a good relationship.

Anyway, so my sister... .she has a difficult time in ALL of her relationships with men. All of them. Granted, I've had a couple terrible relationships with men (one was abusive and I dealt with that for 3 years). Regardless, I honestly do my best to put my ego aside to find the truth. She constantly projects onto me and it's so hard. How do I deal with this?

The last time I called her was 2 weeks ago. I kept an open mind, but my heart was still hurting. And when I spoke to her she told me how intuitive she has been lately, how much she "knows," and controls the conversation for it to go the way she wanted. I felt like I was seeing the manipulation behind it all, and it makes me sick feeling. I cannot explain it. She doesn't want to talk about "The past" and wanted to completely move on. I mentioned the letter and she told me, "Oh, I'm over that. I don't have any grudges." And then I started to open up about my feelings when she would literally not hear me, and I started sobbing and I just had to hang up because I didn't want to cry the rest of the day. I just wanted her to listen to me, understand my perspective, and then she texted me and said, "You yelled at me and hung up on me." I was just so sad... .she gets to have all of her feelings out, but when I talk or try to resolve the root of the issue, she takes it as "the past" and doesn't allow me room to be authentically myself, and vulnerable. She has said to me, "Oh you're talking like MOM!" She projects mom issues onto me.

Part of me lately has come to the terms that it's possible she and I may never be able to have the type of relationship I want, or the kind we've had before. I cannot and will not have a fake relationship where I cannot express myself and communicate. My mother and father think that she is jealous of me, but I don't know if that's true or not. I think everyone in my family needs more emotional intelligence and there is a lot of projecting that happens. My friends tell me that I am one of the most non-judgmental people and they never feel that I project onto them. Of course, I'm human and I do project from time-to-time, but I think my years of mediation practice does help me move through things easier and see people where they're at. This one is a tough one for me, though, and it hits so close to home. And honestly I do lose my cool sometimes because I find this projection stuff very difficult to navigate with her. I used to take it all DEEPLY personally, but I'm starting to feel less of that the more I see that many people experience this with her--not just me.

I could have written this better, but here's something. I texted her recently in a different way and she's willing to talk on the phone tomorrow. I don't even know what to say. Do I even bother expressing my feelings at all? How do I communicate with someone with BPD?

[missesmiss]

Hello everyone, I'm new to these forums. If anyone can contribute to help me with understanding how to deal with this, I would greatly appreciate it. I absolutely LOVE and adore my sister. I've grown up with her and I've always valued her. When she and I are good, we have so much fun together and have very deep conversations. When there is an argument, it has rarely ever been solved smoothly. In all of my life relationships, I've been in good communication with people with low levels of drama (except one terrible relationship I entered).

I've suspected my older sister (in her early 40's), has BPD. I'm writing this post because I got into a conversation with a friend of hers, who suspected something similar. Irionically, she is finished her Master's degree to be a therapist. BPD is nothing something she has ever spoken about, or acknowledged, nor it is something I've brought up. However, while I know it's not an "official" diagnosis, I am very into psychology and I've come across a few things that has me suspecting she has BPD, strongly suspecting... .

My sister, growing up, always said she felt so intensely, and in her words: compassionately. Her deep feelings feel very spiritual to her, and she always spoke of animals, crying out of compassion for them, etc. The story she has told herself her entire life is that she is the black sheep, the odd one, that no one understands her, and many arguments go to "I cannot trust you." Those words used to hit me like daggers, but now I see it's a defense mechanism and it hurts less after a years of hearing the same thing. While I've definitely said things that were hurtful to her, I never meant to hurt her. I do regret some of the things I've said many years ago, but I cannot change those things---and she has done things to me as well as we have a long history together, but I really do let those things go and I don't try to bring up anything to hurt her, except in my attempt to solve a perception or communication issue. I don't bring up the past much at all, except when an argument has been unresolved.

So our last argument: I offered for her and her boyfriend to stay at my place sometime, so they could have some alone time together, as she was staying with his family. The offer was for a day I didn't have to work the next day, etc. She calls me randomly during a dinner date in the late evening (9 pm), asking if her and her boyriend could stay at my place that night. I told her it was so late minute and I was on a date. And when she wanted to stay in my bed, it stressed me out the last minute request, plus me having to clean the sheets, and the long 12 hour work day that awaited me with an early morning. I have a small place and it's tied in with my job, too. My stress levels went up really high. I have been trying to have more boundaries in my life, and I told her it wasn't a good day and I needed more notice than that, and that I was out to dinner. Granted, that ended in an argument of her saying, "I would never do this to you." But really, relying on me last minute and expecting me to put aside all of my plans for her unplanning is not something I would ever do to anyone. This was because she didn't want to pay for a hotel.

I'm someone that cannot stand disharmony and not talking, but boundaries are something I've needed so I put an intentional boundary there and it exploded in my face. I like to resolve problems soon because they tend to weigh on my heart and really hurts me... .My sister and I have not spoken in a year once before, and it really tore me up in a lot of ways. And over this last incident, she hasn't spoken to me in months, but we've had some terrible texting conversations between us, which was just bad communication. She recently wrote me a letter, which was basically everything that I ever said to her that still hurt her, and at the end of the letter she told me I could not respond. Basically, she is allowed to get all of her feelings out, but she will not listen to me and how I feel.

Then she accused me of saying things I never actually said. She said, "Mom said you said this... " And I actually never said those things. And so for a while I was defending myself on things I didn't say, which was incredibly frustrating. Also, my mother does say things wrong sometimes because she is on medication, and my sister knows that. For a long while, she has had issues with our mother. Our mother isn't perfect, she has heart issues the past couple of years, and my sister was born a heroin baby, if that gives you any clues. My sister's dad was never in the picture, and she always believed that was the source of her abandonment and trust issues.

However, my mother does have a good heart and intentions (and in a good place albeit not always emotionally, but that is the only mother I know and have) and I do confide in her because that is the type of relationship I have with my mother. My sister doesn't confide in her because she thinks she is protecting my mother, but in another way she cannot have a true relationship with my mother because her protecting is rather "secretive," in that she doesn't tell my mother much about her personal life, and my mother feels that she isn't being 100% genuine in the conversation. My sister has been this way towards my mother prior to her known heart condition. My mother thinks my sister is just talking to her because she believes my sister is afraid she's going to die soon. I think that's possibly true because for a long while, they didn't really have an honest relationship, but it also may not be true at all. My sister will call my mother in an attempt to "reach out," but when my mother calls her back immediately she does not pick up. It's weird.

There is this weird control thing with my sister, and she believes that both my mother and I are triangulating against her. While I can see how she does perceive this (I've really tried to see her life story the way it has played out and put myself in her shoes), it's a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point and she continues to perpetuate this story, but keeping the same patterns going. She continues to play like she is a victim, yet projects onto me saying things like, "Stop playing the victim." Like... .I'm just trying to communicate here and I have feelings, too. I also have projected onto her before, and while I'm merely human, I am a very emotionally aware person. Any issues I have in my friendships and relationships are solved within hours preferably, or definitely within days! I generally see these things as miscommunication and perception issues.

After years and just very recently being tired of defending things to her that I never said, I suggested that her, myself, and my mother get together and have a 100% genuine and real conversation about our feelings and the dynamics of our relationship. I wanted to clear the air about everything. I wanted us to have a change to have a NEW dynamic. I wanted my sister to know that we both love her and it's possible to have a 100% genuine relationship together.

I recently told my sister that I was going to have the type of relationship that I wanted to have with mom, which may look different than the relationship she has, or the way my sister wants me to communicate with my mom. I told my sister that I didn't want to have any secrets (frankly, I'm not good at keeping secrets and if something slips, I'm immediately blamed even though in my perception it is harmless. Like, she didn't want my mother to know things about her personal life or even me bringing her up in the conversation between my mother and I which was so unnatural for me, etc.) It just got into this form of control and I didn't want that in my life anymore. It was becoming toxic, this odd dynamic, of what I should and shouldn't say to protect my mother in her feelings, which I found created drama and I am an adult now... .

So my suggestion for us to all talk turned into her believing that this was an "intervention." I told her it wasn't an intervention, but a conversation face-to-face, without all of the "she said," stuff. She told me she would NEVER have an intervention. She keeps using the word intervention. I told her many times it was not an intervention. And I asked her why she was in school to be a therapist, but unwilling to talk this out? She said she read something about unconscious things between families can sometimes do more harm that good, etc. In my opinion, it's this whole control thing she has going on. I think it's rooted in some fear and her unwillingness to face something... .or maybe the emotions might feel too intense for her to experience?


I've called my mother and father hysterically crying because I just want things to be better, and my sister told me via text, "Oh go cry to mommy and daddy," or "grow up," etc. She has accused me of breaking off her dinner date with my mother on purpose, which I would actually never do nor desire AT ALL. My mother was so upset that she and I were not resolved because I further upset my mother by calling and crying because my sister refused to meet, that my mother said she didn't want to have a dinner anymore until we all met. I was crying and called my mother out of sadness because I cannot imagine this dynamic going on for the rest of my life and felt completely helpless to this and wanted to finally have a solution to all of this drama and I needed a listening ear. I never cared if they had a dinner date and I encouraged my mother to do what she was going to do. Eventually, they did have a dinner the next week, which was 100% fine by me. I want them to have a good relationship.

Anyway, so my sister... .she has a difficult time in ALL of her relationships with men. All of them. Granted, I've had a couple terrible relationships with men (one was abusive and I dealt with that for 3 years). Regardless, I honestly do my best to put my ego aside to find the truth. She constantly projects onto me and it's so hard. How do I deal with this?

The last time I called her was 2 weeks ago. I kept an open mind, but my heart was still hurting. And when I spoke to her she told me how intuitive she has been lately, how much she "knows," and controls the conversation for it to go the way she wanted. I felt like I was seeing the manipulation behind it all, and it makes me sick feeling. I cannot explain it. She doesn't want to talk about "The past" and wanted to completely move on. I mentioned the letter and she told me, "Oh, I'm over that. I don't have any grudges." And then I started to open up about my feelings when she would literally not hear me, and I started sobbing and I just had to hang up because I didn't want to cry the rest of the day. I just wanted her to listen to me, understand my perspective, and then she texted me and said, "You yelled at me and hung up on me." I was just so sad... .she gets to have all of her feelings out, but when I talk or try to resolve the root of the issue, she takes it as "the past" and doesn't allow me room to be authentically myself, and vulnerable. She has said to me, "Oh you're talking like MOM!" She projects mom issues onto me.

Part of me lately has come to the terms that it's possible she and I may never be able to have the type of relationship I want, or the kind we've had before. I cannot and will not have a fake relationship where I cannot express myself and communicate. My mother and father think that she is jealous of me, but I don't know if that's true or not. I think everyone in my family needs more emotional intelligence and there is a lot of projecting that happens. My friends tell me that I am one of the most non-judgmental people and they never feel that I project onto them. Of course, I'm human and I do project from time-to-time, but I think my years of mediation practice does help me move through things easier and see people where they're at. This one is a tough one for me, though, and it hits so close to home. And honestly I do lose my cool sometimes because I find this projection stuff very difficult to navigate with her. I used to take it all DEEPLY personally, but I'm starting to feel less of that the more I see that many people experience this with her--not just me.

I could have written this better, but here's something. I texted her recently in a different way and she's willing to talk on the phone tomorrow. I don't even know what to say. Do I even bother expressing my feelings at all? How do I communicate with someone with BPD?

[Faith2014]

Welcome to the forums!  I'm a newbie here too, but wanted to comment on this:

" I suggested that her, myself, and my mother get together and have a 100% genuine and real conversation about our feelings and the dynamics of our relationship."

That has been my goal as well, but even when it's actually happened (and it has, a couple of times and the talks have been successful), I find that the 'new method' of communicating hasn't lasted for any length of time.  Perhaps there's a 'reset button' being hit when my sister's alone? 

I'm a fixer, and so many of the problems in my sister's life could be lessened simply.  However, she won't take mine (or anyone's) advice.  I've approached the conversations before much like you - we can talk things out, agree to new things, and while it may not be easy, it isn't rocket science.  And just by a little effort, we can make things so much better in everyone's life.

Yet, it all seems to fall apart. 

From what I've read, we need to stop thinking like that - because it rarely works out, even though logically it should.  I'm still grappling with this - how do we work towards a better relationship with our BPD... .

BTW - I noticed that I had to turn on Notify for my own intro thread in order to see replies.  Perhaps it's not automatic? 

[missesmiss]

Welcome to the forums!  I'm a newbie here too, but wanted to comment on this:

" I suggested that her, myself, and my mother get together and have a 100% genuine and real conversation about our feelings and the dynamics of our relationship."

That has been my goal as well, but even when it's actually happened (and it has, a couple of times and the talks have been successful), I find that the 'new method' of communicating hasn't lasted for any length of time.  Perhaps there's a 'reset button' being hit when my sister's alone? 

I'm a fixer, and so many of the problems in my sister's life could be lessened simply.  However, she won't take mine (or anyone's) advice.  I've approached the conversations before much like you - we can talk things out, agree to new things, and while it may not be easy, it isn't rocket science.  And just by a little effort, we can make things so much better in everyone's life.

Yet, it all seems to fall apart. 

From what I've read, we need to stop thinking like that - because it rarely works out, even though logically it should.  I'm still grappling with this - how do we work towards a better relationship with our BPD... .

BTW - I noticed that I had to turn on Notify for my own intro thread in order to see replies.  Perhaps it's not automatic? 

Hey, thanks Faith for your response. I've been trying to access your previous posts. How do I do that?

[Faith2014]

You should be able to click on my username to access my posts.  However, if that doesn't work, I have my only post a couple down from you in the Intro forum (the one this post is in -  Coping and Healing From a BPD Parent, Sibling, or Inlaw ).  It's called I'm Exhausted (or something very similar).