Idealization of our BPD signficant others

[wastelandchic]

Posting for the first time as I feel somewhat compelled to get something tangible out there regarding my experience. I was with my ex-uBPD for almost a year and a half not including several breakups (which I understand is entirely normal and to be expected in fact). To be entirely honest, I must raise my hand in acknowledging some blame in our ultimate demise as I met her via online dating VERY shortly after moving out of my marital home (I was on the path to divorce from my (ex) wife of 9 years). I wasn't looking for anything serious in all honesty. Basically, some lighthearted interaction and a physical outlet as my marriage had become very sexless. I was very vulnerable myself and was acutely aware SUBCONSCIOUSLY that I was finding a band-aid for the existential hurt that was bearing down on me over the demise of my marriage which had produced my two beautiful, young daughters.

She was a classic seducer. Like I said, we met online and after having chatted very shortly, she asked me if I could meet her on her lunch hour at a bar nearby (we work pretty near one another). This in and of itself was quite forward and unexpected. Anyway, she was very complimentary. Looked attractive and seemed to carry herself well. We soon started seeing one another often, particularly after one very engaging meeting where she divulged too much, too soon (red flag anyone), particularly about a miscarried child who had prompted her to get a tattoo on her left wrist to remind her of the 4th daughter she would never have. I discovered that there were two baby daddies at a later date, FWIW. She seemed a little uneasy and insecure about having several tattoos (I didn't care) which also could have set off red flags as she seemed almost apologetic and oddly unsettled instead of proud of her choice to adorn her body in such a way. She shared a lot about her ex-husband who was, you guessed it, the devil incarnate. The man had never done one thing right in their 14-year marriage apparently. Again, this should have served as a red flag but I was intoxicated by someone who was so flirtatious, open and direct. I appreciated it quite frankly after my poor marriage and the total lack of honest, engaging conversation. She coaxed things out of me (although I shared willingly) regarding my own failed marriage. I did tell her there was a missing physical component and made it very clear I would not tolerate another sexless relationship (still won't). Needless to say, things turned highly sexual between us very early on. The sex was in fact magnificent on many levels - for its frequency (which was surprising even by my standards), daring, experimentation, lack of inhibition, etc. That would clearly become the cement that bound us together but we told ourselves it was more despite knowing very well it was a purely physical relationship if we had been in a position to be honest with ourselves.

Soon, another redeeming (or what I thought to be) quality emerged wherein this woman seemed to do EVERYTHING to please me and in this instance I'm specifically referring to things outside the bedroom. Effectively tending to my every need. If it wasn't so damned exciting and novel to be catered to as opposed to the extreme inattentiveness of my soon to be ex-wife, it would have been another red flag as it seemed over the top, even then. I just assumed she was a very sweet woman who was intent on pleasing the man she cared for. She kept assuring me that I should get used to being treated so well. She would fawn over me. Assure me that I was very different than what she had been accustomed to in previous relationships and declare that she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me. I won't belabor the point because I think everyone here knows how this story goes. Idealization and seemingly shape shifting into whatever I needed at the time.

Long story short, she asked me to meet her 3 older daughters (12, 16 and 20 at the time) pretty quickly after meeting. This whole situation was very new to me but something said it was too soon to be introducing this kind of familiarity into a relationship that was only a couple to few months old. I was in no way ready to meet her daughters and maybe I AM the one who was being too cautious but it didn't feel right and I certainly didn't suggest her meeting my girls for quite some time later. But I did it anyway (met her girls as we made several awkward attempts to throw ourselves into this forced familiarity). I'm actually a very genuine person and don't like forcing things like that. I assured her that we would get to know one another as things progressed and that it was normal for things to be a little tense at first. Our first meeting at a restaurant went OK but was admittedly a little strained and I wasn't off put by it in the least. I was actually OK with how things went but the next morning she called me at work, crying as she had perceived that things didn't go as swimmingly as she had clearly imagined they should have (another red flag). I reassured her that it would all happen organically and in its own time; there was no reason to be upset as we had plenty of time to get to know each other under better circumstances and in a more relaxed, less contrived manner. The fact that things didn't fit like hand in glove upset her tremendously and I began to feel like I was being blamed for the failure to connect almost instantly (and yeah, that's very easy with three teenage girls Snapchatting at the table) with her daughters.

She begun suggesting we move in together shortly after. The pace of things seemed to pick up in terms of melding families. She was leading the charge and I was along for the ride although I definitely believed I had, like so many others here, found my one and only. It was a magnetism that I could not qualify if I tried. We were wrapped up in our blanket of clouds and regularly declared our love, familiarity and ease with and for one another (although in hindsight I was probably more prone to do this than her but simply failed to notice that she was probably just going along with it). Again, I digress and apologies for summarizing the relationship in such painstaking detail but I felt obliged to offer some context.

Needless to say, it wasn't long before I was doing everything wrong. Not paying her sufficient attention. I could never text her often enough, call often enough (during the workday) or if I didn't text her first in the morning, she would quickly remind me that she was ALWAYS the one who texted first or always came by my office for quick visits (I was secure enough in our relationship that I didn’t need these frequent, random parking lot visits/conversations). She would remind me frequently that she was doing much more than me to show her affection. That is when it became apparent that much of her previous generosity and caring were in fact transactional in nature. “I did this for you so why aren't you reciprocating as much and in the same fashion that I did?”. This was the devaluation phase at work which had begun well before a rather glaring incident caused our first temporary separation.

We were hiking together as a family (our combined daughters) when my then 7-year-old tripped, fell and cut her hand pretty badly. She was crying and bleeding fairly profusely. The thing is, this woman who was so eager to declare her love for my girls and insist that she would raise them as her own, sat there blinking and staring blankly at my daughter as she cried and bled there on the trail. I was attending to her needs so it didn't occur to me initially that she (or her daughters) were not taking any interest in this. After I stopped the bleeding and cleaned the wound, we continued hiking and that's when my daughter presciently asked me, "dad, why didn't anyone come over to me or even ask me if I was OK?". Good question I thought. If one of her daughters had taken that same spill, I would have rushed over to them to help them up and if mom was already attending to it, would have, at the very least, indeed asked if they were OK. I mentioned this to her in a text message later that day and she called me in an absolutely RAGE! My message, while blunt and not exactly complimentary, was not insulting nor worded particularly strongly. Instead of addressing that issue, she proceeded to blast me for not spending more time getting to know her oldest daughter better during the hike. (3rd time EVER seeing her and was there hiking with her boyfriend). All mention of what happened to my daughter was immediately swept aside in an obscenity-laced tirade/rage-out.

My oldest daughter is Type 1 diabetic and has specific healthcare needs that must be addressed. While once upon a time declaring that she and her daughters would take a class in order to learn how to treat the disease, that all but disappeared ENTIRELY once I had been hooked. Subsequently, it was never actually ever mentioned again nor did she actually EVER inquire as to her general health. Those of you familiar with this affliction may recognize that it's not like having a common cold or hay fever. It's a potentially life threatening and certainly a life shortening illness. At one point, during a sleepover at her house, she pulled me aside and told me that she thought I was giving too much attention to my daughter (yes, sometimes it appears I'm giving her extra attention before poking her finger until it bleeds or administering a shot) and her OWN girls had noticed and wouldn't like it. Effectively, why are you babying your girl and how can we explain that to my girls in order to make it easier for them to swallow? I was effing incredulous! There were COUNTLESS encounters wherein I never did anything right by her, her girls, her extended family, etc. In essence, I began to feel like a black hole that sucked all joy out of the lives of those I encountered.

So, here's the gist of this seemingly endless rant: for some purely psychological and probably chemically-induced reasons I still somewhat long for her company despite her having comported herself so tremendously badly for most of the relationship. I have recently been asking myself what I REALLY miss about her. Not much. I'm hard pressed to explain what she really possessed at her core that made me feel this attachment. Her very essence and aura are black as night. She lied compulsively and maintained those lies in the face of CONCRETE evidence demonstrating as much. It was maddening to say the least. She was passive aggressive and abusive, often talking to me so badly that her own daughter once admonished her for speaking to me in that manner. She wasn't particularly intelligent nor was she very witty, worldly or wise. I once caught a glimpse of her dating profile which was laughably given the handle "Travelforfun. Her first trip across the mountains of CO let alone out of the country was, in fact, with me. She actually displayed pictures of her (us actually with me cropped out  - on some sandy beach) such was her inability to define her own sense of self and purpose. I'm a very well-traveled, worldly man myself having traveled the globe extensively and lived in 6 different countries. I speak 4 languages fluently. I'm relatively articulate and knowledgeable about a broad range of subjects and can speak intelligently to many of them. I am pretty civic/politically minded and love to engage in stimulating conversation of any color. Her idea of a stimulating evening was eating dinner in front of the TV watching Deadpool or the Bachelor. I'm not trying to belittle people who don't share my background but am making the point that I think WE are guiltier of idealization than our BPD significant others. Again, not to belittle those who find the above mentioned part of a stimulating evening but it isn’t MY IDEAL evening - not even close. And yet I endured that kind of nonsense countless nights, just to appease this cretin. Apart from steamy sex, I NEVER got the intellectual stimulation I craved from this abominable woman. She never challenged me and if I pressed her to express her own beliefs about ANYTHING, she simply could not manage! Now I recognize that for what it is: a complete inability to define who she was or what she stood for. She was a blank slate and molded to the ephemeral needs or desires of the person seated right in front of her. She was nothing and will likely remain nothing for the rest of her days. I care about her enough to wish her well should she ever determine that she needs help but overall, I think it’s important for each of us to remember the science involved here – be it bio-chemical or psychological.

We are missing the way their machinations made US feel and we are generally missing that alone! They are otherwise fairly predictable, boorish people once you have accurately attributed their otherwise childlike impetuousness and spontaneity to a more deep-seated mental illness. All the normal exciting or intoxicating conveyances and associations are obliterated when we realize that they are not personality attributes but rather the manifestations of very disordered, chaotic and compulsive minds bent on attaining (fleeting) personal gratification at all costs. They are wind up machines whose behavior is far from intriguing, exciting or endearing. It’s mostly frightening, pitiful and pathetic. My ex comported herself like a 5-year-old, often having tantrums over the mildest perceived slights. There is very little that was redeeming about her when I’m completely honest with myself. Even looking at her pictures now I find myself thinking, “she’s not nearly as beautiful as you remember her”. I needed to see her as the beautiful, confident and in control woman (ironic given she was NONE of these) as much as she needed to see the same qualities in me, otherwise I would have taken stock of my life and RUN at the first sign of the telltale signs of serious mental illness.  The idealization was fiction – nothing real about it as much as we believed it to be, or more to the point, needed it to be. I needed my ex to be the one who lifted me up and dusted me off after a disappointing marriage. But alas, it was all lies. It was illusory and fake. What wasn’t fake? The AWFUL times we spent together. The vacations she ruined with her petty jealousy, rage and pernicious, petty crazy making behavior. THAT was all real. Every excruciating second of it…...
 

[Harley Quinn]

Hi wastelandchic and Welcome!  

Thank you for sharing with us.  Your story is very well written and you make a valid point in that the idealisation is reciprocal.  I would agree that us nons are seeking something in the same way that our BPD partners are during this phase, which is why we become hooked where others would see the flags and exit stage left.  It is often said that because we're being mirrored at this point in the relationship, that who we are actually falling in love with is ourselves.  Those of us who are codependent can potentially see the revelation in this - that in fact we ourselves are ENOUGH and that we CAN, if we so choose, give ourselves the same level of care and self love that we instead focus our energies on giving to others.  I'm interested to know when this relationship ended once and for all?  Was there something specific that has happened for you that brought you to the site to share your thoughts now?

Love and light x  

[hopealways]

Very well said.

I often wonder why I idealized her. Yes she was beautiful, seductive, funny, witty and such -  but I guess it was what I felt and did not see that attracted me: we were at our core both damaged children so we mirrored each other, we just expressed it differently- I was the codependent, she was the Borderline. She ran away, I chased. I ran away, she chased. Yet we could never stay together for more than a few days.

So sad, but very true.

[Bushes]

Well said sir. Well contemplated, thought out and expressed. I came to the very same conclusions over a little time and fully realizing the points you make have made the beginning transition back to normality much more attainable. I also found allowing myself to feel anger and pity along with and then over and above my sadness helped. Realizing ourselves to be in fact lucky to have dodged a bullet is in my opinion the healthiest of attitudes. And the fact they can appear to be so very attentive, and in my case even witty and humorous at times is I think a reflection and compliment to the qualities they are mirroring in their partners. When the greater part of the emotions are removed what we are left to see is as you say the utter predictability of the behaviour. For those that can seem unpredictable in the moment it is an irony not lost on me. I can say I even find it mildly interesting to watch the behaviour unfold on script.

[Gemsforeyes]

Boy oh boy!  I hope hundreds of people read your post and get their "aha" moment through your words.  And I truly hope you stick to your guns and remain true to this wisdom.  Really really something... .

Bravo!

Gemsforeyes

[Helplessly]

A good friend of mine said to me recently, in reference to my ex girlfriend, "maybe she's just a human being trying to survive HER way."  And her way works for her.

I remember dealing with her couch potato behavior watching Netflix. We chose to be there brother.

OP you are very articulate.  Look back at your original post. You wanted to assure us that you are week traveled and multi lingual, etc... .  You have complaints about your marriage. Sexless.

Where are you REALLY in this equation?  This woman hooked you based on your sexless marriage?  No. She was hot and awesome in bed. We hate them for that. I've been there. 

Counseling helps to some degree. I was never a psychology babbler but this ___ started before you were 3.

Again no judgement. I've lived it.

[wastelandchic]

Hi wastelandchic and Welcome!  

Thank you for sharing with us.  Your story is very well written and you make a valid point in that the idealisation is reciprocal.  I would agree that us nons are seeking something in the same way that our BPD partners are during this phase, which is why we become hooked where others would see the flags and exit stage left.  It is often said that because we're being mirrored at this point in the relationship, that who we are actually falling in love with is ourselves.  Those of us who are codependent can potentially see the revelation in this - that in fact we ourselves are ENOUGH and that we CAN, if we so choose, give ourselves the same level of care and self love that we instead focus our energies on giving to others.  I'm interested to know when this relationship ended once and for all?  Was there something specific that has happened for you that brought you to the site to share your thoughts now?

Love and light x  

I think in the end what brought me here was an overwhelming desire to seek closure (to use a hackneyed expression) where there likely is none. In any event, I was blissfully unaware that such people and behaviors existed alongside the relative normalcy they can display at times until very recently when a little voice convinced me that something greater was at play than a simple range of emotions. Hence I stumbled upon BPD symptoms and here I am. There is a small but growing part of me that was actually happier not knowing about this affliction because I could have gone on thinking she was actually pining away for me or wishing upon a star that I would just reach out to her when in all reality, she's probably plying her trade with the next fortunate then unfortunate dupe, content to discard my memory entirely. I think that is the worst part - the feeling that we didn't matter to these highly mechanistic, almost sub-human robots.

I think this has really been a quest for answers and mostly an attempt to assuage my bruised ego. The hardest part has been wrapping my head around the idea that someone who professed to love me so deeply was so easily persuaded or convinced to move along, disavowing all the sweet little nothings we whispered which apparently weren't so little to this guy after all. And still, there were moments where I was painfully aware of the ultimate outcome of our relationship. In moments of clarity, I absolutely, positively knew we had no future together, not only for the painfully absurd circular reasoning, compulsive lying and refusal to accept ANY responsibility for our falling outs, but because we just didn't have that much in common after all. She would send me things she found humorous and I was loath to find humor in any of it. I would try and scratch the surface of politics or anything remotely refined and there was simply no satisfaction to be had there. She was an empty vessel in many senses of the word... .

So, we have not communicated for 2 months save a few very perfunctory, impersonal texts issued simply to tie up loose ends. There was a recycle not too long ago but it was a feeble attempt at reconciling out of sheer habit and loneliness. I have blocked her number, Facebook and any other means of viewing/being viewed. I have simply chosen to detach in much the same way she did. I know it will take awhile yet but I genuinely want to purge all memory of her for there is very little of value worth retaining. Even the good times were seemingly marred with some sort of absurdity. Some trifle that blew up into a conflagration. Nearly every trip we took together had some redeeming qualities but there is never a moment that was pure and free of conflict or drama of some sort.

[wastelandchic]

Very well said.

I often wonder why I idealized her. Yes she was beautiful, seductive, funny, witty and such -  but I guess it was what I felt and did not see that attracted me: we were at our core both damaged children so we mirrored each other, we just expressed it differently- I was the codependent, she was the Borderline. She ran away, I chased. I ran away, she chased. Yet we could never stay together for more than a few days.

So sad, but very true.

My ex was a terribly damaged child as well. Father abandoned her family when she was very young and started a new family. Mother literally told me the story of how she had caught dad screwing one of her friends on the couch so she whacked him over the head with a frying pan. Yeah, it was like that. They have not been in contact in decades I believe. When I tried to flesh that out, she simply responded that she was fine. I told her it would be more unusual if she WAS OK after such an outcome. She never wanted to discuss those things no matter how much I tried. Refused to meet with her father to try and reconcile things even when I offered to be by her side through the whole thing. I know it impacted her deeply but as long as she continues to deny the pain it has caused and is still causing her, she will never improve. She doesn't display the tendencies of someone who will seek help but rather burrow deeper into her pathology.

I was to be the codependent half to the relationship. Parents were around but dad was an alcoholic and certainly not the most lovable character you ever met. I don't have any hesitation in admitting that he certainly impacted (impeded?) my ability to form "normal" longer term relationships. I do acknowledge a fair degree of responsibility but as the pleaser and person who did the most to meet her 95% of the way, I cannot accept the lion's share by a long shot. I didn't denigrate her and speak to her in a tone and using words that one often reserves for a rabid dog. "If you were here right now, I'd punch you in the face" - I can still here those words and that was not the first time she said she'd like to hit me. She frequently spewed obscenities and devalued me in all manner of ways. In any event, I can see that I was seeking her approval on some level. She was a very strong person (in some respects, very much like my father) and so I was drawn to that, particularly longing for her affection and approval. In some instances, I was so at ease and non-conflicted with her that I actually relinquished control and would tell her on many occasions that she had the wheel and could take the relationship where she wanted to go. As a pretty masculine "man's man" I was loath to allow myself to be engulfed by someone and yet I did, time and again and under the RIGHT circumstances with a right minded woman, I would not hesitate to relinquish control again.

And to our mutual point of why we idealized? I think we both had a reason to do so, just like you. I was fresh out of a failed marriage and this woman managed to open up childhood wounds on top of the wounds I would have to suffer through divorce. I simply needed her and so in some sense, she provided the supply in the same way that I was supplying the paternal reassurance she never knew. But in the end, this dynamic is bound to fail for what they say is true: no one but YOU can be responsible for your happiness.

[wastelandchic]

Boy oh boy!  I hope hundreds of people read your post and get their "aha" moment through your words.  And I truly hope you stick to your guns and remain true to this wisdom.  Really really something... .

Bravo!

Gemsforeyes

I thank you for your kind words and am thankful if they are in any way a consolation to anyone who has suffered this tremendous loss. It has been a very difficult journey but in the end I can genuinely say that I think I will be a better person for having endured it. Again, thank you for your comment! It means a lot!

[wastelandchic]

Well said sir. Well contemplated, thought out and expressed. I came to the very same conclusions over a little time and fully realizing the points you make have made the beginning transition back to normality much more attainable. I also found allowing myself to feel anger and pity along with and then over and above my sadness helped. Realizing ourselves to be in fact lucky to have dodged a bullet is in my opinion the healthiest of attitudes. And the fact they can appear to be so very attentive, and in my case even witty and humorous at times is I think a reflection and compliment to the qualities they are mirroring in their partners. When the greater part of the emotions are removed what we are left to see is as you say the utter predictability of the behaviour. For those that can seem unpredictable in the moment it is an irony not lost on me. I can say I even find it mildly interesting to watch the behaviour unfold on script.

Allowing myself to feel the anger and self pity has also done wonders for my self esteem and self image, ironically. I have allowed myself to feel the victim and acknowledge that I was in fact swindled by this biochemical drug dealer. She played on my emotions and while I vacillate between bitterness and pity, I feel more anger and hostility toward her than anything else. I believe she is cognizant of her behavior but has been allowed to skate through life on her relative beauty and a smattering of fear and intimidation among family and friends. As her beauty continues to fade, so too will her value to men. That's not intended to be cruel but merely honest. As she finds herself increasingly discarded as her abuses mount, she may recognize that sex and sex appeal were her only currency. Men who were vulnerable and willing to enter into this kind of relationship abound, but to be quite frank, I would not have stuck around for the length of time I did were it not for the impressive sexual chemistry.

And while petty, there is some satisfaction in knowing that her next broken relationship is only a few months or possibly years away as that kind of narcissistic enslavement to one's delusions eventually wears everyone down to the point where they either depart or their prey becomes so listless as to be rendered boring. And we all know what happens to boring guys with these robots... .

[wastelandchic]

A good friend of mine said to me recently, in reference to my ex girlfriend, "maybe she's just a human being trying to survive HER way."  And her way works for her.

I remember dealing with her couch potato behavior watching Netflix. We chose to be there brother.

OP you are very articulate.  Look back at your original post. You wanted to assure us that you are week traveled and multi lingual, etc... .  You have complaints about your marriage. Sexless.

Where are you REALLY in this equation?  This woman hooked you based on your sexless marriage?  No. She was hot and awesome in bed. We hate them for that. I've been there. 

Counseling helps to some degree. I was never a psychology babbler but this ___ started before you were 3.

Again no judgement. I've lived it.

Where am I in this equation? Hopefully approaching the outer terms. I think you mistake my post in some respects. To be clear, I am not excusing my behavior by any means. I made plenty of mistakes but none of them were vindictive, hateful and generally intended to lower the other in my or their esteem. On the contrary, I was exceptionally attached to the woman and often lavished her with praise and frequently told her that I was completely enamored with her. I was more than willing to reassure her that I was not going anywhere. I very frequently assured her of my fidelity and I was true to my word whereas I do not believe she was.

As for the sex, I don't hate her for being hot and awesome in bed. It might be something of a hot button issue for me now as our minds naturally turn to that place: who is she with? Is she pleasing him like she did me? Is he pleasing her like I did? These are natural questions but to be clear, I do not hate her for those qualities. To be quite candid, and I get the impression my original post came off as a bit too self assured bordering on arrogant, I can assure you I'm actually a very self effacing person who often feels discomfort when being praised. Having said that, I'm a good looking man. I'm very fit and have never had any problems attracting women. Again, I offer this solely as a possible reason for not "hating her" not just for shameless self promotion. In short, I am pretty hot myself and was equally "awesome in bed". Given that, I don't hate her for possessing those qualities. In fact, I am continuing to assert that this was in fact the tie that bound us both together and genuinely believe that she was very much enamored of our physical connection as well. Did she attract and maintain our relationship on the basis of sex? Absolutely! Had the sex been infrequent and not as awesome, I would certainly not have stuck around for her sparkling personality, I can assure you of that.

Your link didn't work but I have to assume it in some way made reference to sex addiction or pornography? I'm not ruling those things out at all. Perhaps there is a component of that at play here but I won't say that it contributed to our downfall as that was often times the only activity in which we both happily and readily engaged and in which we seemingly pleased one another consistently. There's probably the answer right there... .

[OptimusRhyme]

Your link didn't work but I have to assume it in some way made reference to sex addiction or pornography? I'm not ruling those things out at all. Perhaps there is a component of that at play here but I won't say that it contributed to our downfall as that was often times the only activity in which we both happily and readily engaged and in which we seemingly pleased one another consistently. There's probably the answer right there... .

Somewhat amusingly, that link is just the automatic censoring of foul language that these forums use. It used to link to an FAQ page about pornographic language of any kind, and was a little confusing; hopefully we'll lighten the ___ up here shortly.   

But I digress. I might gently suggest that your assumption as to what it was, is food for thought in and of itself.

[Helplessly]

Relative beauty.  ha ha. 

OP your post was revealing in that you unashamedly revealed the narcissistic traits that feed so well into theses relationships.  When I posted my original story, I edited out a long paragraph describing myself in all of the same ways your describe yourself.  I don't know why, I guess I just didn't want to reveal everything.

None of these things are meant to be judgmental.  It's just textbook behavior that almost seems scripted.  I've spoken to many many people about this over the course of the past couple of months and there is usually a state of denial in the beginning regarding triangulation and whether or not another guy/girl was in the picture.  While it's not universally the case, it usually goes like this;

Just believing that you are a fit, good looking, financially secure, good in bed type of guy sets a stage that will eventually collapse.  First of all, it's most likely true.  You have probably never had a problem getting girls, etc... .   Then you wind up with a "relatively" beautiful girl?  Younger than you?  I don't remember from your post.  This girl is well aware of her potential, and without sexual talent and seductive behavior, that potential is disappointingly low to her.  She knows her limitations so she basically obtained a PHD in oral sex and "muscle control."  And if she saw you as a handsome, confident lover, she was probably secretively plotting an escape so as not to get hurt.  She knew you would eventually see through her.  And she's not good looking enough, active enough, energetic enough, to pull it all off without sexual prowess.  These types of people cannot sustain the level of energy they put into the first 3 months (if lucky) of a relationship.  Nobody can.  They are exhausted from being "on."   They seduce strangers, male or female, with fake empathetic behavior.  They claim to be deep, sensitive souls, but are actually shallow as puddles when you peel the layers.  They define themselves by the way others perceive them.  You made her feel beautiful in the beginning.  That's all these vampires want.  Actresses on stage needing applause.  And actresses they are.  But she got bored with you and needed to find her supply elsewhere.  In that sense they are apparently stronger than their narcissist partners (us).  They usually monkey branch with some orbiting male friend that you may or may not have known about.  They secretly triangulate you to another man, usually a friend, and describe themselves as victims to your monstrous behavior.  What does the male orbiter do?  Falls for it and shows her that he knows how to properly treat a woman as wonderful as she is.  She starts mourning you and your relationship with her while transferring to the new guy.  You aren't ready for it.  You've been faithful.  In a sense there were times you would have sacrificed anything to right the ship.  BUT... .

You admitted you knew there was no long term future.  Do not kid yourself; she sensed this, even if it wasn't verbalized.  They can feel when you are even considering disengaging.  My ex had an uncanny knack for calling me out in times of doubt.  It was scary.   

The wondering about who she's with and what she's doing is uncontrollable masochism.  Assume that she's with someone else and being pleased and pleasing.  Just let it move through you.  For me, when I found out the truth, it was slightly, very slightly, liberating.  At that point I was never going back, and the logical portion of my brain said to me, ":)o you see?  We were planning to get rid of her 6 months ago!"

It helps to take the BPD jargon out of the equation.  Years ago these relationships were simply labeled "toxic."  There are some people we aren't compatible with in the long term. 

The BPD stuff put me in a little bit of denial in the beginning.  It was like, "I knew it!"  And then reading others' stories, ruminating, wondering if I could have been more sensitive and handled her "poor little heart" more carefully.

And the denial; ":)on't worry, her next relationship will fail... .blah blah"

But the truth of the matter is that it's highly likely that they may find a man who makes them happy forever. They just don't want us!  Hard to believe eh?  Just as it's highly likely that you will find someone else.

I look back and see that my ex really was very very ill.  There wasn't a soul who met her that didn't comment by at LEAST mentioning that she was "different."  We think we can fix these people by catering to them.  They CLAIM to want a sensitive man and that you are too aloof or cold.  But when they replace you it's with an alpha stud.

Why did your ex seemingly move on so easily?  She triangulated you with a friend.  Painted you as a controlling monster.  The friend coached her.  Helped her mourn while she was still with you.

Difficult question; is it possible you triangulated your ex wife?  Did you seemingly overcome the grief of losing a MARRIAGE faster than she did?  Did you mourn her before leaving?  Furthermore, there was NO crossover with the new girlfriend? 

When when we really get into our own heads and get past the prototypical "my parents didn't approve" stuff... .we start to see our actions and the consequences they have.  Who have we hurt in the past?  Who have I "love bombed?"  Wait... .DID I USE SEX AS A TOOL?  Was that one girlfriend from 2004 really a crazy stalker?  Or did I use sex and intimacy to make her feel like we were "soulmates."

Couple of lighter things;

- One of the most underrated red flags that these horrible vampires will throw out in the beginning is; "I've had stalkers and I don't know why this happens to me."  We know why.  They love every man with equal vigor and they rob all of these beta boys of a part of their souls.  Healthy men stay away from girls like this, unless it's just a one off sex thing.

- Watch the full "Succubus" episode from South Park.  Here's a snippet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oVIzQwjZjQ

[wastelandchic]

Relative beauty.  ha ha. 

OP your post was revealing in that you unashamedly revealed the narcissistic traits that feed so well into theses relationships.  When I posted my original story, I edited out a long paragraph describing myself in all of the same ways your describe yourself.  I don't know why, I guess I just didn't want to reveal everything.

None of these things are meant to be judgmental.  It's just textbook behavior that almost seems scripted.  I've spoken to many many people about this over the course of the past couple of months and there is usually a state of denial in the beginning regarding triangulation and whether or not another guy/girl was in the picture.  While it's not universally the case, it usually goes like this;

Just believing that you are a fit, good looking, financially secure, good in bed type of guy sets a stage that will eventually collapse.  First of all, it's most likely true.  You have probably never had a problem getting girls, etc... .   Then you wind up with a "relatively" beautiful girl?  Younger than you?  I don't remember from your post.  This girl is well aware of her potential, and without sexual talent and seductive behavior, that potential is disappointingly low to her.  She knows her limitations so she basically obtained a PHD in oral sex and "muscle control."  And if she saw you as a handsome, confident lover, she was probably secretively plotting an escape so as not to get hurt.  She knew you would eventually see through her.  And she's not good looking enough, active enough, energetic enough, to pull it all off without sexual prowess.  These types of people cannot sustain the level of energy they put into the first 3 months (if lucky) of a relationship.  Nobody can.  They are exhausted from being "on."   They seduce strangers, male or female, with fake empathetic behavior.  They claim to be deep, sensitive souls, but are actually shallow as puddles when you peel the layers.  They define themselves by the way others perceive them.  You made her feel beautiful in the beginning.  That's all these vampires want.  Actresses on stage needing applause.  And actresses they are.  But she got bored with you and needed to find her supply elsewhere.  In that sense they are apparently stronger than their narcissist partners (us).  They usually monkey branch with some orbiting male friend that you may or may not have known about.  They secretly triangulate you to another man, usually a friend, and describe themselves as victims to your monstrous behavior.  What does the male orbiter do?  Falls for it and shows her that he knows how to properly treat a woman as wonderful as she is.  She starts mourning you and your relationship with her while transferring to the new guy.  You aren't ready for it.  You've been faithful.  In a sense there were times you would have sacrificed anything to right the ship.  BUT... .

You admitted you knew there was no long term future.  Do not kid yourself; she sensed this, even if it wasn't verbalized.  They can feel when you are even considering disengaging.  My ex had an uncanny knack for calling me out in times of doubt.  It was scary.   

The wondering about who she's with and what she's doing is uncontrollable masochism.  Assume that she's with someone else and being pleased and pleasing.  Just let it move through you.  For me, when I found out the truth, it was slightly, very slightly, liberating.  At that point I was never going back, and the logical portion of my brain said to me, ":)o you see?  We were planning to get rid of her 6 months ago!"

It helps to take the BPD jargon out of the equation.  Years ago these relationships were simply labeled "toxic."  There are some people we aren't compatible with in the long term. 

The BPD stuff put me in a little bit of denial in the beginning.  It was like, "I knew it!"  And then reading others' stories, ruminating, wondering if I could have been more sensitive and handled her "poor little heart" more carefully.

And the denial; ":)on't worry, her next relationship will fail... .blah blah"

But the truth of the matter is that it's highly likely that they may find a man who makes them happy forever. They just don't want us!  Hard to believe eh?  Just as it's highly likely that you will find someone else.

I look back and see that my ex really was very very ill.  There wasn't a soul who met her that didn't comment by at LEAST mentioning that she was "different."  We think we can fix these people by catering to them.  They CLAIM to want a sensitive man and that you are too aloof or cold.  But when they replace you it's with an alpha stud.

Why did your ex seemingly move on so easily?  She triangulated you with a friend.  Painted you as a controlling monster.  The friend coached her.  Helped her mourn while she was still with you.

Difficult question; is it possible you triangulated your ex wife?  Did you seemingly overcome the grief of losing a MARRIAGE faster than she did?  Did you mourn her before leaving?  Furthermore, there was NO crossover with the new girlfriend? 

When when we really get into our own heads and get past the prototypical "my parents didn't approve" stuff... .we start to see our actions and the consequences they have.  Who have we hurt in the past?  Who have I "love bombed?"  Wait... .DID I USE SEX AS A TOOL?  Was that one girlfriend from 2004 really a crazy stalker?  Or did I use sex and intimacy to make her feel like we were "soulmates."

Couple of lighter things;

- One of the most underrated red flags that these horrible vampires will throw out in the beginning is; "I've had stalkers and I don't know why this happens to me."  We know why.  They love every man with equal vigor and they rob all of these beta boys of a part of their souls.  Healthy men stay away from girls like this, unless it's just a one off sex thing.

- Watch the full "Succubus" episode from South Park.  Here's a snippet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oVIzQwjZjQ

Some interesting pearls in there to be sure. And many of them probably true. As I mentioned in a previous post, this breakup will probably have the overall net effect of impacting me more positively than negatively if I can derive from it the things that will set me on the path to deeper introspection and problem-solving. Having said that, I was never operating under the pretense that there was not some other man/men in the picture. I knew her for the compulsive liar she was and even came to accept her prevarications as part of what I then generically perceived to be "daddy issues" stemming from early childhood abandonment. At one point, I stone cold busted her with a dating profile which was active and contained a picture of her sporting a pair of sunglasses we had bought while together a couple of months earlier. She invented some cockamamie story about the pictures automatically uploading from her phone. It was actually quite amusing to hear her tell it so convincingly and even more amusing to confront her with the truth when I went to absurd/extreme lengths to offset her lie with the truth. I contacted tech support (already knowing the answer) and asked them if such a thing was possible. They laughed and said of course not - pics have to be uploaded manually. EVEN in the face of this overwhelming truth, she continued lying, insisting that that is what happened and stuck to her guns. It was actually quite impressive to watch someone continue to pointedly lie to you in the overwhelming presence of incontrovertible proof to the contrary. I let it pass and continued taking what I wanted from her.

And yes, I'm sure at some point she likely knew I was out of her league in several capacities although I never fostered or attempted to engender those feelings within her. On the contrary, I subconsciously (for my own selfish reasons) and overtly tried to build her up physically and intellectually, thereby convincing myself that we had a real shot. The pursuit of corporeal pleasures will compel us to do some crazy things! In the end, I'm sure she could sense that I had recognized too many fault lines and so started her journey to replace me while she continued taking exactly what she wanted from me: the aforementioned praise and attention in exchange for her body. It was a subtle form of deranged prostitution if I'm being quite honest with myself.

And yes, you're right - I wasn't ready for her to shuffle off just yet. It was strange but when she was walking out the door, I loved her the most (Jim Morrison had that one right) and when I felt like I truly had her affection, I was content to essentially allow the relationship to stagnate, languish and otherwise slip into decrepitude while fostering my own plans to escape. In that respect, maybe we weren't so different. And while I did do a lot to "right the ship", I also felt a disingenuousness in that very act. A primal fear of abandonment of my own which compelled me to call her back, if only to attain that amazing, narcissistic elixir we have all come to know and adore. For to watch her go was a death blow to my ego that I simply couldn't allow myself to suffer. There's certainly some insecurity there which she had done much to re-instill in me ironically. I came to believe that SHE controlled my fate and self-image, failing once again to recognize this one immutable fact: I am the master of that ship.

And I readily admit that getting involved with this woman prior to grieving the demise of my marriage was entirely self-serving and did, in fact, allow me to triangulate. She was a crutch and therein lies the crux of my entire argument: how many of us narcissists or codependents are merely latching onto what we need at that moment? How many of these wondrous qualities are we assigning and instilling in them? Do they really exist in them? Probably not. They're actresses as you've indicated and they're always on stage. They are incredibly beautiful vampires at times and it's easy to get sucked into that particularly when you're at a low point. And you know what? And this is another painful admission - she did help me gloss over the loss of my marriage. She did allow me to essentially navigate that mine field and reach the other side relatively unscathed. I still have not fully "mourned" the dissolution of my marriage, not because I'm a cold hearted snake but because I was too busy reading into the next chapter in my bright future with this seemingly perfect creature who, unlike my ex, seemingly adored me and worshiped the ground I walk on. As it turned out, I invented so much of her desirability. The sexual component was undeniable but that too is a feature of their robotic tendencies. What still binds me up is not really the end of the relationship itself. It was not, in real terms, all that satisfying. I did everything to create the appearance of perfection in my head when in reality, there were very few redeeming qualities. What is most upsetting is knowing it was all one big, fat lie. However, the same could possibly be said about my behavior as I was merely projecting those qualities I needed at the time as well. All the same, I made myself believe they were real because I DESPERATELY needed to believe that my soulmate was out there somewhere. I needed to believe that I wasn't a screw up who could, in fact, find long term happiness. I know I can but not with someone who belittles and lies compulsively.

And as to my denial? I'll have to respectfully disagree even though there is a part of me that does cringe at the idea (slight acknowledgment?) of her finding her "one and only" or even someone who can tolerate her over the long haul. Maybe that gives me some solace to think that it is not in the cards for her and perhaps I need that small comfort but there is also the firm recognition and understanding that this woman lies with the greatest facility I've ever witnessed. She is rageful in a way that will largely render her hideous to anyone who ultimately does not assent to her way (yes, she has admitted she needs to get her way very often). And owing to some issues from her childhood and previous marriage, will NOT under any circumstance be ignored (yikes). She is actually a little bit older than me and is reaching that inflection point in her life where she will be drawing increasingly heavily on her reserves and stores of beauty (which is largely owing to a concerted effort to produce herself before going on stage). And in this particular stage/cycle, I was actually the alpha male as she has previously admitted to growing bored with the last couple of betas she was with. Whether or not that is the truth, I cannot say as she has a strong penchant for lying as I have mentioned previously and repeatedly. But I could be wrong. However, in an abbreviated period of time, I won't care because she will have faded from my memory to such a degree that whether she has found someone or not will inspire nothing more than a yawn anyway. I'm not there yet but the remaining hurdle of simply "not having her" in my life and not having her all to myself will fall shortly.

Your reply was a perfect segue into that which I was driving at in my original post. Hopefully this encourages some of us "sufferers" to really explore the notion that we were idealizing them all along, too! We were just as guilty of latching onto them for purely selfish reasons. Sometimes it's hard to apply cold logic and science to matters of the heart but if we're honest with ourselves, and I did believe this bit of psychobabble, we were just looking for self affirmation/self-love all along and seemingly found it in these hollow vessels.

[Helplessly]

It sounds as though you are taking a pretty healthy survey of yourself.  Awesome reply.


I don't care for the use of the word "nons" when it comes to these things, because I don't think we are "non" anything.  Emotionally healthy people don't get involved in these toxic relationships.


I love what you said about feeling a bit "fraudish" when working hard at the relationship.  I can relate.  It was sort of like, "What the heck am I doing?  This will never be healthy! I'm just going to have sex with her all weekend and end it on Monday." 

I think in the beginning there was a first line of emotional defense that she picked up on.  She would get a concerned look on her face and I would ask her what's wrong?  She would tell me that I was the hardest person she's ever tried to "figure out."  I had my guard up because she wanted to live together after 24 days.  But the phrase "figure out," unbeknownst to me, was actually her trying to find the open wounds, the chinks in my armor, in order to set the hook.

The "trying to figure you out" dance is common in these toxic relationships.   

[wastelandchic]

It sounds as though you are taking a pretty healthy survey of yourself.  Awesome reply.


I don't care for the use of the word "nons" when it comes to these things, because I don't think we are "non" anything.  Emotionally healthy people don't get involved in these toxic relationships.


I love what you said about feeling a bit "fraudish" when working hard at the relationship.  I can relate.  It was sort of like, "What the heck am I doing?  This will never be healthy! I'm just going to have sex with her all weekend and end it on Monday." 

I think in the beginning there was a first line of emotional defense that she picked up on.  She would get a concerned look on her face and I would ask her what's wrong?  She would tell me that I was the hardest person she's ever tried to "figure out."  I had my guard up because she wanted to live together after 24 days.  But the phrase "figure out," unbeknownst to me, was actually her trying to find the open wounds, the chinks in my armor, in order to set the hook.

The "trying to figure you out" dance is common in these toxic relationships.   

Is there anywhere where I can read your story, so to speak? I can relate to the "hard to figure out" bit VERY well. I heard that quite frequently and would often parrot the same thing to her (sadly in an attempt to convince myself that still waters ran far deeper than they actually did). I wanted to feel intrigued and stimulated by a woman who was largely uninteresting and completely pedestrian. But yes, in retrospect, she was probably just probing me as well. Interestingly enough, I don't recall her probing me for too many weaknesses though. Maybe they were already on display but her singular self absorption I think prevented her from even going that deep. I think she knew her body was enough to set the hook for me. I'd invent the rest as we went along.

[NYGirl33]

Hi wastelandchic!

I am writing because I just read your post and feel like we fell into a similar situation. I am new to this site and glad that I found it. It helps me to better understand and also to self examine as to how on earth I allowed this to engulf me for as long as it did. While my experience was with a man; i highlighted some of our similarities. I think its helpful to talk through and compare. At least for me it is, so I hope you don't mind my commentary!

I was with my ex-uBPD for almost a year and a half not including several breakups (which I understand is entirely normal and to be expected in fact).   VERY shortly after moving out of my marital home (I was on the path to divorce from my (ex) wife of 9 years). as my marriage had become very sexless.   I was very vulnerable myself
--- This was me. Married 9 years with children. Sexless, loveless marriage and was vulnerable. This person came into my life, lives nearby and charmed me.

  She was a classic seducer.
--- He flirted, seduced and made me feel desired.

  she divulged too much, too soon (red flag anyone)
--- Wow, same thing! First night he was telling me all about his financial woes and stresses, and in my head I was thinking... This man does not sound confident, or like a secure partner. And yet I ignored the red flag bc the sex was off the charts and in some ways, I guess I wanted to help the wounded lamb.

  She shared a lot about her ex-husband who was, you guessed it, the devil incarnate.
--- He was divorced a while so I instead heard alot about his ex, which whom he was was incorrigible, mean spirited, unattractive, spoiled, etc etc. List goes on. Meanwhile, I came to find he never cut off contact with her and is back with her now.

  She coaxed things out of me (although I shared willingly)
--- For some reason, I felt so comfortable with him and told him things I never told anyone which I highly regret now!

  Needless to say, things turned highly sexual between us very early on. The sex was in fact magnificent on many levels  daring, experimentation, lack of inhibition, etc.
--- Same and was a huge draw! Kept me around for sure!~

  I AM the one who was being too cautious but it didn't feel right and I certainly didn't suggest her meeting my girls for quite some time later.
--- He wanted me to meet his daughter early on, which I did. But I didnt reciprocate with my children. This angered him and he pressured me and it led to the demise of our relationship, or contributed to it. We also fought about parenting. He was always the "perfect parent" and "only bad children have tantrums", he was arrogant and egocentric. And quite frankly, unrealistic. Would insult me. Gaslight me. Discard me for a week and come back.

We were wrapped up in our blanket of clouds and regularly declared our love, familiarity and ease with and for one another (although in hindsight I was probably more prone to do this than her but simply failed to notice that she was probably just going along with it).
--- I thought we were so in love. Thought he was my soul mate. We would glare into each others eyes. I did more of the actions though at the end. He did nothing. He was probably in devaluation phase. And I was clinging on bc I yearned for the idealization phase back so badly! It is most definitely like a drug.

  Needless to say, it wasn't long before I was doing everything wrong.
--- I was doing everything wrong. I needed too much, or I was offering too little or I said something the wrong way, or I didnt thank him enough. It was always something, and most things made absolutely ZERO sense whatsoever. I felt like I was arguing with a child.

I still somewhat long for her company despite her having comported herself so tremendously badly for most of the relationship.
---This plagues me! Although this person did so many awful things to me, and when I really step back and look at who he is as a person- its really not much. He is insecure, a mess in his business, financially insecure, arrogant, self-centered, etc. Yet, I crave those moments we shared. The incredible and open, intimate sex and moments that followed. The walks on the beach. We had solid moments. Its hard to come to terms with the fact that they werent real.

She lied compulsively and maintained those lies in the face of CONCRETE evidence demonstrating as much.
- He was lying to me after I caught him and then would try to give me some absurd reason or blame me for his lies. Just awful.

  And yet I endured that kind of nonsense countless nights, just to appease this cretin.
--- Speaking of this... .I am much like you... all he wanted to do was stay home and watch sports and do nothing. This is so not me and yet I caved to it and did it. No idea why, and I regret it. I remember thinking to myself that I couldnt be with this person forever bc I hate sitting stagnant... but I stayed regardless.

I find myself wondering if he misses me, or if he regrets what he did to me, or if he ever truly loved me. I go over all the moments, and also all the lies in my head wondering what was true and what was fake. I have zero closure and wish I did. Its so hard to stay strong. I know I need to go complete NC. I am only a month out of the relationship, but only 2 weeks NC. Its tough.

Anyway, I wish you luck and your story was very articulate. Thank you for sharing!

[emotionalvampire]

Thank you so much for writing this wastelandchic! The woman you describe reminds me so much of the person I was involved with. They really do act in a robotic like manner. Maybe they came off the same assembly line . The pain still lingers more than two years later for me because these people are incapable of giving closure. But closure for me is starting to become a reality due in large part to the many people on bpdfamily that have helped me, such as yourself. Thank you!

[emotionalvampire]

Thank you so much for writing this wastelandchic! The woman you describe reminds me so much of the person I was involved with. They really do act in a robotic like manner. Maybe they came off the same assembly line . The pain still lingers more than two years later for me because these people are incapable of giving closure. But closure for me is starting to become a reality due in large part to the many people on bpdfamily that have helped me, such as yourself. Thank you!