Body Autonomy vs. Clingy BPD

[WitzEndWife]

My H is extremely needy and clingy, and always demands I give him a kiss whenever I greet or leave him. He is normally still sleeping when I leave for work, but if I don't kiss him goodbye while he's still in bed, he sends me a sad text later in the day. It's one thing he's super rigid on. I can't seem to get him to let up on this. I tell him that I'm not big on kissing on cue. I never liked it as a kid, and I don't like it now. I want to kiss when I feel like giving affection, not when it's forced, but he feels deeply wounded if I don't. It actually deters me from being intimate because, first of all, things aren't great between us (it's hard to feel like a partner to someone when they're entirely dependent on you and act like a child), and second, being forced to do something usually kills the mood. Any suggestions on what I should do?

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[isilme]

Will a hug be better?  I can understand not liking awkward affection.  I'm more the clingy one at times, but I grew up isolated from people by BPD parents, and so my affection was either smothering or absent. 

Is it the kiss, the actual demand for it, or the neediness of it that is most troublesome?  I tend to reserve kissing for less common interactions - H is not super PDA, and so I have gotten used to our "norm" being holding hands, hugs depending on circumstances, and save kisses for long goodbyes or hellos, or to initiate something. 

I think maybe you should find out if a form of affection that you are comfortable with will suffice - it may take time for your SO to adjust, but you don't need to make yourself feel weirded out, either.

[waverider]

It is frustrating, but it is part of their insecurity that causes them to cling to routines, any change makes them anxious.

If you dont do it, then he will send you a sad text. Then what happens? Do you apologise and promise to comply next time? Does the sky fall in if you dont?

To make a change you will have to demonstrate to him that nothing changes if you dont do this each and every time. In fact if you dont feel compelled it will not be as robotic when you do. You wont be able to explain this, you will just have to do it, and he will just have to adjust. As long as he has the option to pressure you to do as he wishes that is the option he will choose.

This is but a small example of the endless ways in which a non slowly changes their "normal" to match the abnormal of BPD expectations. Doesn't seem like a huge thing, but multiply by 100 other issues and you will find yourself to be reprogrammed to act in a manner which is not natural to you. You will find it hard to put your finger on what is wrong, but it is the seeds of resentment creeping in.

Resentment is self fuelling and it starts to impact on trivial issues, which starts to make you feel guilty and selfish. ie you self blame.

Bottomline
~You feel uncomfortable being pressured into this routine as an expectation
~He feels uncomfortable when this expected routine is broken
It is up to you to ensure the discomfort is not completely skewed. He will think only of his needs as a default reasoning.

Keep in mind it is not about this issue, it is about the precedent you set in regards to imposed expectations.

[BowlOfPetunias]

My problem has been that my wife used to insist on kissing me when SHE wanted to show affection, REGARDLESS of what I was doing.  I could be in the middle of cooking.  I could be closing the gate to the kitchen so our dog did not get out and bite our toddler.  I could be trying to put down the stuff I brought home from work. Nope, I had to stop whatever I was doing and kiss her then and there.  This was part of a pattern where 1) she needed attention and was jealous of anything that took the focus off of her--even if I was doing it for her and 2) whatever I was doing was, by definition, not important because I was doing it it.

[RufusTFirefly]

First off: Your feelings are completely justified. You get to choose who you kiss and when you kiss them and there's nothing wrong with not kissing or being intimate with someone who you don't feel close with.

In my experience, with my SO, a lot of times these issues come down to me having to make a decision about what bothers me more: the thing or her not being upset about the thing. My girlfriend wanted me to give her a kiss and say goodbye to her before I left in the morning and it really bothered her if I didn't. To me, giving her the kiss wasn't a big deal and seemed like it made a big difference to her, so I decided to make it part of my morning routine.

That was my decision and I think it was the right decision for me. You don't feel the same way, so it may mean that you decide dealing with your husband being upset is the lesser of two evils. You can't control whether or not he gets upset, but you at least have some control over yourself and your actions.

It may be something you want to talk to him about when he's in a relatively stable mood and explain that just because you don't kiss him goodbye, it doesn't mean that you don't love him or that you're trying to hurt him. People give and receive love in different ways.

When I'm talking to my girlfriend, it makes a huge difference if I repeat back to her what she's feeling to demonstrate that I'm listening and I understand why she feels the way she does. Your husband may feel rejected or unloved when you don't kiss him goodbye and he has the right to his feeling just as you have the right to yours. Understanding where he's coming from doesn't mean you have to give in to his demands.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Pedro]

My ex gfBPD insisted on a hug & kiss when leaving for work in a morning, & on entering our home in an evening coming home from work.  I did it because I wanted to because I am an affectionate person, but if I had had a tough day at work & either forgot or mind was distracted or still wound up with a busy shift walking through the door she would get upset.

I took her to bed each evening as I went to bed an hour or 2 later each night, tuck her in & give her a hug.  Any deviation from this & she would be mad or upset or both. I was happy to do this because I loved her & wanted to. Any text messages sent to her if they didn't have 2 x x's for kisses or only 1 x she would be upset & asking what's wrong?

When walking in public we would hold hands, but she would get mad if I walked to the left of her, it had to be the right hand side or not at all.

[WitzEndWife]

He sends me a sad text, and then says I don't love him. He might even use it as an excuse to stay in bed all day. Is there a way I can reassure him that I care about him, even if I don't robotically kiss him every morning?

To me, forced intimacy isn't an expression of love, it isn't genuine. Why can't he see that?

[RufusTFirefly]

To me, forced intimacy isn't an expression of love, it isn't genuine. Why can't he see that?

Because, to him, it sounds like it *is* an expression of love. Maybe it's not the forced intimacy he's responding to, but he likes the idea of a routine where you show him love every morning. I don't know.

What are expressions of love to you?

My girlfriend likes to be touched, that's how she feels loved. I feel love when she complements me. If I'm sending love in the form of complements (my language), she may not receive it because that's not how she feels loved.

Maybe take a look at the five love languages:

www.lifehacker.com/how-the-five-love-languages-can-help-you-win-at-relat-1734348074

People don't necessarily fall into just one category, but I think it's important to understand that you two may not be speaking the same "love language."

As I said earlier, this does not mean you should kiss him when you don't want to kiss him. But if you want him to understand your point of view, it may help to understand his first.

Maybe sit down with him and make a list of things that either of you can do to help make the other person feel loved.

[waverider]

It's not the "expression of love" that is important to him, it is the perceived meaning of when it is missing. The more you say it, the bigger the negative perception when you don't.

This is the danger of allowing precedents to set in. It is like a drug after a while it is not the high of the drug that eventually becomes the motivator, it is the fear of withdrawal