So confused, I wonder if it's my partner, me or both who have BPD-What do first?

[TPEL]

Hi everybody,
When I started searching information and solutions, I was convinced my partner has BPD and it's me who suffer from the chaos in our relationship.
Whereas I'm still quite sure my partner has BPD, I'm searching now to learn what my part is in what's going on between us : do I have BPD too or are my suffering and reactions consequence of the dayly chaos I'm living in for now 3 years ? Or maybe it's the other way round (me having it and driving my partner "crazy".
I can't figure it out and I want to make it better.
Did anyone have this kind of confusion and how did You go on from there ?
Thanks for Your attention in advance.

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[Tattered Heart]

Hi TPEL,

Welcome ,

I'm sorry to hear that you are going through so much chaos with your relationship. It is possible for 2 people with BPD to be in a relationship together. We also have another phrase that we use. It's called "having fleas". This means that, like you mentioned, when living with someone with BPD, we begin to pick up some of those traits... .maybe we get offended easily, or begin to act overly needy, etc.

Can you tell us a little more about your relationship? Is there something specific that you are currently struggling with?

We have a lot of great workshops on the right side of the pages. These can help you learn new communication skills and tools. To get you started here is a link to one of our first workshops on The Dos and Don'ts of a BPD Relationship:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62266.0

[TPEL]

What I find very difficult is to stay calm when falsely accused or blamed especially for her feeling bad or being unhappy or depressed. I just can't take it and I find it very difficult to stay calm and address the issue rather than defend myself or strike back with an accusation or blame.
Also, arguments turn in circles and don't converge going from one topic to another, going back to past issues or fights over and over again. And it really upsets me when she cuts me when speaking, or speaking at the same time. E.g. : she would ask a question and not let me finish my answer to it by cutting off and going on to another question or accusation/blame. And I find it very difficult to not follow her volume when she raises her voice or screams. In front of her 16 year old daughter, I feel ashame of fighting with my BP GF, or when I leave she screams after me in the staircase, neighbors can hear it and I really hate it.
Those are only examples. I wonder if it's a sign of having BPD or is it "fleas" as you call it ?

[Tattered Heart]

The urge to defend ourselves is natural. For the average person, giving a reasonable explanation works. For someone with BPD, they see this as being invalidating. By giving an excuse or defending yourself, they perceive this as telling them that what they are seeing/feeling, etc. is not real. To them perception=reality.

One of the first communication skills I began working on is Don't JADE. JADE=Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain. By implementing just this one practice, it helped reduce our arguments quite a bit. I still catch myself doing it, and I stop what I"m doing and ask myself, "Why are you trying to JADE? He does not care about your reason. It's only making things worse. What is the trying to tell you?"

Why do you have to convince your partner that you are not in the wrong if YOU know that you are not in the wrong? How has JADEing been working for you? What positive benefit comes from getting her to admit she is wrong?

[Hmcbart]

TPEL: what Tattered Heart is says is very helpful.  Just by trying to explain your side of an argument or accusation will usually only make things worse. I have the same feelings as you most days. I struggle to understand if it's me or her that has BPD.  Having outside friends who actually know what's going on can help.  I unfortunately don't really have that anymore after moving.  Chances are if she's the one screaming and yelling and you're trying to calm things down it's likely not you.  Having been in my relationship for 22 years now, I struggle daily with the idea that it's not all my fault.  I've been programmed of sorts to accept that I am the cause for how she feels.  I know now that I am not, but I still struggle with it. 

My BPDw also cuts me off constantly.  She says it's because she had something she really needed to say and if she didn't speak up she'd forget it. Personally I think it's because she knows it throws me off balance and messing up my thought process.  I've been fairly successful with slow down when I'm talking.  I lower my voice and slow my pace of speech.  It doesn't stop her from interrupting but it does help me remain focused on what I was trying to say.  After she interrupts I repeat what I was saying from the beginning so I can get my thoughts back in order. With each interruption I start over again.  Some days I may do this 4-5 times before she catches on that I'm not going to get sidetracked and I'm just going to keep starting over until I get to say what I need to.

As far as circular arguments, I still struggle with those.  I've found that getting up and walking away can stop it.  It never really goes away and is just pushed to another argument in the future.  I am guilty of adding to this cycle at times as well. It is very easy after years of the emotional abuse to start mirroring their actions.

Hope this helps.  I'm still struggling everyday to figure out how to handle my own emotions when these things happen.  Some days are good and some not so much. 

[TPEL]

Thanks for Your attention and helpful advice, I appreciate it!
So as to "What's the point to convince that You're right ?" That's a good question!
You can't convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced, especially if that person doesn't even listen to Your explanations. But why then do we do it ? I think the answer is : HOPE.
I think I do it because I hope that maybe she'll understand there's another way of seeing things and then change for better. But I think that might be hopeless with a BPD.
The thing is : what can I do in front of accusations and questioning ? A normal person answers a question, but I get interrupted. And hearing a complaint can be answered by a paraphrase in order to show I heard and understood her. But I find it difficult to validate feelings that I feel are inappropriate given the situation and what happened.
What's more difficult is to be sure whether I did something that caused that complaint (especially unintentionally). And that's the question I try to answer to myself each time.
When I feel accused of intentionally doing things with purpose to hurt I can't resist to emphasize that it wasn't my intention or aim to do the hurting but some other motivation.
You seem to say, whatever the argument is, the BPD will always take her feeling, perception, opinion as reality and the only way to see things. That's awful. I'm wondering what can make me stay in a hopeless situation like that.
I still find it very difficult to stay rational and react in a calm way or not react. That's really hard.

[Tattered Heart]

IT is really hard to not defend yourself, especially when the accusation seems to be absolutely ridiculous... .to us. But to them, it's very real. They are usually feeling hurt, rejected, alone, scared, etc.

One thing I do to validate is to not look at the outside of the argument, but what the heart of the matter is. I personally know what it's like to be hurt, rejected, feel alone, or scared. I can easily validate those feelings by saying I understand what my H is feeling. Or I can say I can see how it could be taken that way. My question is always: what is he REALLY trying to tell me.

The second part is something we call don't JADE. Don't justify, argue, defend, or explain. IN the mind of the pwBPD it sounds like we are just making up excuses for treating them badly (even if that is not our intent at all). They are in an emotional state and unable to understand reasoning for the moment, at least until they calm down more. Trying to rationalize just makes it worse.

You know the truth about your own reasons. Since you know the truth, then own your own truth. Nothing you say or do many convince them otherwise so trying to get them to see it your way, is futile. When I am accused, I validate then state my truth. It might look something like this:

Accusation: I'm doing all the work around the house and you're not doing anything

What is he feeling: Overwhelmed, might be taking on too much for himself (not even necessarily at home but may be at work too)

Validate: I get that. I've felt that way before too. It can feel like quite a burden to carry. 

Truth: I think it's unfair to say that I never help around the house because I do. (That's it. NO listing things off, no justifying myself to her. I just state the truth).

Resolution: I want to make sure I'm pulling my fair amount of work around here. Is there something specific that you would like me to help you with? or What does helping out more around the house look like to you?

Do you think you could say or do somethign like this? If you need to, feel free to share with us a practice conversation that could uses this type of outline. (I do ALOT of practice conversations, especially about things that come up frequently). I even have a worksheet on my phone for things I can say to various accusations that seem to work really well, just so they are available at my fingertips if needed.

Another thing to point is that I asked for specifics from my H. When he is emotional, he tends to get caught up in the always, never thinking and by asking for specifics, it pulls him out of the emotion into the here and now. (What's funny is that I learned this technique from him. He had been learning about NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) and shared some of the info with me.) He doesn't even realize when I use this technique on him, but it works very well.