CASA wants S and UBPDW to talk in person, help

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I would like some opinions.  Our Sons SD's CASA wants our S and his uBPDW to meet.  Let me start by saying I have met her, she is a wonderful older Christian woman who doesn't have any knowledge about any sort of personality disorders, she is very naive when it comes to what BPD can do to their spouses, even though she has heard all our stories.

She wants them each to say 5 nice things about the other AND then one "I feel" statement, that you aren't allowed to respond to. EXAMPLE, "I feel you are too angry".   Our son was very taken back, and right off said he did not want to do that.  He wasnt comfortable doing that. She wants them to sit down so they can learn to parent their son together. 
It sounds great in a perfect world, but we feel It isn't realistically possible.  This CASA woman would be at this meeting.

On the flip side this CaSA woman did write a letter to our sons attorney stating she sees how his w is coaching the kids and how DHS is wrong etc. She is willing to be a character witness for our son in court, so that is great and speaks volumes.

First, I dont think our son could come up with 5 nice things to say about his w. Second, what happens if this discussion gets out of control, such as his w saying something like "I feel I want you to stop physically hurting our kids", false claims she has made to DHS.   We feel it would just be a disaster.  I know she is trying to do what God would want, but without her knowing much about BPD we don't think she understands how bad this could turn out. Do we ask that she read the book Splitting?  Our son did ask his attorney who thought it would be ok since the CASA woman is on our S side but as you all know you can never second guess crazy. We would like to hear what others think... .FoeverDad, Panda39, SamwizeGamgee?  What are your thoughts? 

[Panshekay]

I would like some opinions.  Our Sons SD's CASA wants our S and his uBPDW to meet.  Let me start by saying I have met her, she is a wonderful older Christian woman who doesn't have any knowledge about any sort of personality disorders, she is very naive when it comes to what BPD can do to their spouses, even though she has heard all our stories.

She wants them each to say 5 nice things about the other AND then one "I feel" statement, that you aren't allowed to respond to. EXAMPLE, "I feel you are too angry".   Our son was very taken back, and right off said he did not want to do that.  He wasnt comfortable doing that. She wants them to sit down so they can learn to parent their son together. 
It sounds great in a perfect world, but we feel It isn't realistically possible.  This CASA woman would be at this meeting.

On the flip side this CaSA woman did write a letter to our sons attorney stating she sees how his w is coaching the kids and how DHS is wrong etc. She is willing to be a character witness for our son in court, so that is great and speaks volumes.

First, I dont think our son could come up with 5 nice things to say about his w. Second, what happens if this discussion gets out of control, such as his w saying something like "I feel I want you to stop physically hurting our kids", false claims she has made to DHS.   We feel it would just be a disaster.  I know she is trying to do what God would want, but without her knowing much about BPD we don't think she understands how bad this could turn out. Do we ask that she read the book Splitting?  Our son did ask his attorney who thought it would be ok since the CASA woman is on our S side but as you all know you can never second guess crazy. We would like to hear what others think... .FoeverDad, Panda39, SamwizeGamgee?  What are your thoughts? 

[Panda39]

First, I don't think our son could come up with 5 nice things to say about his w.

This just made me laugh because it was my first thought as well   Hmmmm well you have pretty hair, keep the house clean, are great at mowing the lawn, buy our son really cute clothes, and you look great in that outfit today... .and are MAKING MY LIFE A LIVING HELL!   (I really miss the eye-rolling emoji we used to have!)

I had a couple of thoughts... .

Can your son voice his fears to this woman before hand? I'm interested in your proposal because it will benefit my son but I'm also concerned that this is another opportunity for ex to make more false allegations that will be used against me.  

You could also look at this as a mediation, it could be an opportunity for an outsider to see the dynamic.  The CASA might get a clearer understanding of what is going on here.  She is at least interested in knowing.  If you think of it in terms of a mediation your son can think about and set some boundaries for himself about where he will and won't go with this.  His attorney might be able to help him with that and maybe we could too.

I'll be interested to hear what others think about this.

Panda39

[GaGrl]

My first thought is that your son's lawyer, with more experience in high-conflict divorce, should weigh in.  That would make it easier for your son to tell the well-meaning CASA that, based on his lawyer's advice/experience, he has been advised not to participate in face-to-face interactions with the ex.

[Panshekay]

Panda39, I thought the same EXACT thing... ."well you have pretty hair". And that is really it.

 When they were together the house was a freaking pig pen, she doesn't care how our GK are dressed... .in fact  when they do the pick up trade our son takes his son home, changes his clothes because the clothes she sends him in are too small and or dirty, our S  puts him in nice well fitting clothes and the when he does the trade back he put his son in the same clothes (but washed) that he came in... .if he doesn't his w will keep all the new clothes. 

Gagirl, his attorney thought it would be ok to meet. 
Panda39 I will let our S know your thoughts about looking at it like Mediation... .

Thanks for the advice.

[SES]

My ex insisted that Child Services held mediation with her and me. I had already paid for three sessions of mediation, in which she was explosive and abusive, in one session storming out but could still be heard shouting abuse at me from the waiting room.  I made a secret audio recording of the child services mediation session... again, abusive, very threatening, and had to be told numerous times by the social worker that she was not being nice at all and to calm down.  In the social workers write up- states my ex wants to be friends with me, but I'm overly rigid with her! It was at this point that I advised Child Services that their description was not honest, and that I had a recording of the meeting.  Funnily enough, they haven't offered an apology.

I'm in the UK... .where you can record without consent in order to detect or prevent a crime. Something I found out when my ex made allegations of harassment to police, in part due to recording her against her wishes. The police advice to me... .back up your recordings.

This might not help. But, expect the unexpected.

[Panshekay]

Thank you SES, you have certainly been through it!  It's not legal here BUT our son does tape things for his protection. Like when he went to our GS baseball games he always had a friend go etc.  BTW, I shared that she was our GS assistant coach... .she didn't even show up with our GS for the last game. They never can fully commit to anything and we figured she would end up doing this, all the while texting our son things like "you better bring him to the game, he is part of a team, he made a commitment (SHE made that choice for him to play baseball, she didn't ask anyone) ugh... .nice to know children's services are the same across the board... .you know what happened with our son, yep he is still trying to fight that. Thank you for sharing your story.

[livednlearned]

As hard as it may be for your son to say positive I statements (which, by the way, seems nuts to me), it will probably be doubly so for his ex. If he can do it, then it says a lot about his ability to rise above. This can speak volumes in court.

What about something like the following (I can imagine being able to say these to my ex). For me, it would be easier to say them to the counselor, referring to ex in third person.

"I feel N/BPDx is doing what he feels is his best, for S."
"I feel grateful that N/BPDx and I had S."
"I feel sad that N/BPD has to suffer."
"I am grateful when N/BPDx was calm when we were in the lobby outside the courtroom last week."
"I feel I have learned a lot about myself from this experience with N/BPDx."

Something like those statements?

It might be worth it. Early on, I had to do a lawyer settlement conference and during one-on-one with my L, mentioned that N/BPDx was a gifted musician and artist. My L would repeat to N/BPDx's lawyer, to the parenting coordinator, to the judge, that I could say something nice about my ex. "LnL is able to say positive things about N/BPDx. In contrast, N/BPDx addresses her by email and text as whore, slut, c***."

If this was not an active custody matter for your son, this kind of counseling would never happen, and it probably isn't good counseling to straightjacket someone into saying nice things about his/her abuser. I'm really sorry he has to go through something like that

Since it is an active custody battle, it might be strategically helpful. Especially if he can say these statements using the third-person pronoun. For some reason, I would find that much easier.

[Panshekay]

Thank you livednlearned... .when our son spoke with the CASA gal the other day and he said he would have a difficult time she said that his w had already said very nice things about him to her. W said our son has a good job, and is a good worker (that she is trying her darn to destroy) keep in mind that PRIOR to the BF in another state that she desperately wants to marry he has pages of texts saying how great of a dad he is from her and his SD (btw, she now says she had to say those things to keep his temper at bay... .you know I call BS)

 As everyone is aware, it's all a deceitful game they play... .Everything is made up stories in their head, each day different in order to manipulate every player to do or see what they want them to do or see.  You hit it on the head with straightjacketing him into saying nice things about his ABUSER.  Your statement kind of puts this into prospective. It's like with me, I was  molested as a child by my dad. Just a few months ago my T thought it would be great for me to write my D a letter stating everything he had done to me... .so I could get closure. First off my D is living with my DX Narcissistic brother, my D is dying from cancer, my statement to my T was... .in words... What the heck, why would I do that?  I don't care what he has to say, I know what he did... .I don't need closure, it is closed.  Ok, rant over. I do know it's important for the court to see that you are willing to co parent with your ex... .so with all that being said perhaps it would be beneficial.

[david]

It's illegal to record in my state too. My attorney really got on me about it a few years ago after I was yelled at by a judge. I couldn't think of another way to protect myself. I decided to continue to record and just point the camera at me. There is no law that says you can't record yourself. IT may seem strange but my attorney said it was arguable in court and to continue. My camera dates stamps everything so I have time and recording. My ex used to bring up the fact that I was recording whenever we were in court. She stopped doing that when I turned the camera on myself. I don't know if her attorney talked to her or she figured I was on to something.

[Panshekay]

 Thanks David, that is actually pretty smart... .and so simple.  Our son has security cameras in his home as well.  That way no matter what happens everything is down loaded for a month. So many times his w would say his SD said this or that happened but he had proof on tape that it didn't happen... .that didn't make any difference to DHS mind you, but it will one day if I have anything to say about it.  It's all in Gods timing... .

[ForeverDad]

I recall filling out a questionnaire where I had to list some things I liked in my then-stbEx and some I didn't like.  Maybe it was for the court's social worker in the Parenting Investigation or in the later Custody Evaluation.  I decided to list simple things, on the positive, that she fed our child, kept him clean and clothed, etc.

However, in neither of the above divorce stages were we asked to be together for a session.  We did meet together in mediation and a settlement conference.  What your son and his Ex have been asked to do as divorced parents, be together, sounds more like belated joint marriage counseling.  But maybe this is a last-ditch effort to desensitize the current extreme conflict?

I do agree that false statements are difficult to respond to, especially if you are not allowed to respond.  There's the old story of the opposing attorney asking, "Yes or No, have you stopped beating your wife (or children)?"  Questions like that can't be answered with either Yes or No without condemning oneself.

[Panshekay]

Thank you ForeverDad... .your last statement gave me chills (and not in a good way) how true is this! 

 "There's the old story of the opposing attorney asking, "Yes or No, have you stopped beating your wife (or children)?"  Questions like that can't be answered with either Yes or No without condemning oneself.

Seems like a no win situation. Lots for our son to think about... .I came up with 5 things... .
1.  She has pretty hair.
2.  She is good at putting on her makeup.
3.  She is a good artist.
4.  She is a "outside" of the box thinker.  (As in the stories she makes up!)
5.  She is creative.
Honestly, those are the only positive things I could come up with if I were asked, and I have given it a lot of thought and I'm basically a nice mindful person.  I will keep you posted. At this point I really don't think he is going to do it.