Wife (BPD) wants to divorce and relocate out of state with kids

[RealityMgt]

Thank you.

I appreciate the reminder about limits/boundaries. I'd been focused on this a while back, but lost sight of it lately.  I like the idea of "yes, but not yet".

I think you're on point regarding the money, as well. Whatever maximizes her comfort and convenience is what she'll pursue. Ideally, she'd have all the money and I would evaporate or something. Kind of like how her initial proposal was that she'd sell the house and keep 100%, she'd get first dibs on all possessions, and take the majority of the savings.  Never mind that aside from that being absurdly unfair between the two of us, that would leave nothing for me to use to support a household for kids, which, I guess also serves her purposes, since then she can say the kids shouldn't go to be at all since I wouldn't be able to provide for them. This IS what she wants, though she'll pay lip service to the kids needing to be around their dad, when the conversation heats up her real perspective comes out ("I shouldn't have to give up anything. I shouldn't have to suffer. It wasn't MY choices that got us here. A great dad wouldn't do what you did, that's why I'm trying to keep them from you. Etc... ."

As a point of clarity, it's my wife's L that's not calling my L back.  I think it may have come across that it's my wife that's stonewalling (though she certainly does this, too).

My counselor last week noticed I'm showing signs of building up stress and was able to discern that I'm bottling up my anger about this situation. I am. I'm just flabbergasted and infuriated at the ways she is using the kids as pawns/weapons/currency and how she's continued to be deceptive and entitled. She last week tricked me regarding trick or treating with the kids, so that I took them last week so she could take them tomorrow. She made it sound like she would not want to take them tomorrow because she'd be too distraught from court and wouldn't want to interact with me that afternoon at all. So I took them last week. It was a GREAT time. I made my son's (4 y.o.) costume (retro space man, complete with rocket pack (thanks Pinterest)) and took him and my 2 y.o. daughter.  Come to find out yesterday she was/is actually planning to take them to a friend's house tomorrow and go trick or treating there. That had been her plan the whole time. So, again, stupid me, thinking I'm trying to be considerate of her, get taken for a fool one more time. She doesn't even care about Halloween.  Her plan for my son's costume was stuff a pillow case with cotton and call him a marshmallow. For our daughter, she picked out her (my wife's) favorite thing, a peacock, and bought/found a used costume somewhere. My daughter is old enough to know what a lot of things are, and carry on simple conversations, but she has no idea what a peacock is.  And my son definitely had more ambitious ideas than a marshmallow.  He and I worked on the costume for a few weeks, and I pulled an all-nighter (almost) to finish it on a moment's notice, when my wife suggested trick or treating last week instead of this week (I'd planned to work on it yesterday).  She doesn't decorate. Doesn't get pumpkins. Certainly won't carve them. The kids like all that stuff, so I do it with them. I love it, too, so it's no burden at all. I mean to mention it to further the point that she takes no real interest in the day, yet still wants to manipulate me out of the picture so she can spend it with them.  She still maintains she might not take them if she's feeling to emotional from the day in court, but even in that case doesn't want to allow me to take them.  So, my L said we'll address that in court, too. It feels silly, in some ways, but it's just more of the manipulation and deception and using the kids as a commodity. 

Sorry, that was venting.

[livednlearned]

You can put your needs first, and the needs of your kids, without being a meanie 

The nice thing about this board is that people understand the practical skills you need to get through these divorces, as well as the emotional and psychological mindsets that many of us have (rescuers, fixers, savers).

It's a process of coming out of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt), and we all go through it. Over time, you'll carve out a lane where you put your kids needs and your needs first, and learn to let go your feelings of guilt or obligation. My experience is that this is often rooted in our own anxiety about how we feel when other people suffer. Even when they are selfish toward us, we seem to feel anxious to watch them suffer.

And for me, I also learned that I conflated anger with love (family of origin stuff), so when the anger reached peak levels, it felt confusing to walk the other way because anger is how people who "loved" me reacted.

Awesome job on the Halloween costumes 

Over time, your wife's effect will recede in your psyche and what she does or doesn't do will matter less. It will always hurt to see how the kids are impacted, but fortunately you can validate how they feel and help them learn they are able to process negative emotions and deal with hurt in a constructive way.

[ForeverDad]

Your time with the children should most definitely be your time with the children.  That means on your time the children are where you are, not you being where they are.  Courts expect that, that's normal.  Don't let her lock you into you being a brief visitor on her turf.  That must to be non-negotiable.  There's no way the court will order her preferences unless (1) you don't stand up for yourself as parent or (2) the court is convinced you're a risk for child abuse, child neglect or child endangerment.

A lot of the financial issues are standard in a temp order.  One parent often gets child support from the other.  Maybe spousal support but you need to state at the outset that she needs to support herself, if not now then to work on it.  The parenting schedule is where dads often get hammered.  That means you need to stand up for yourself.  That's not wrong, it's necessary due to her entitlement and control attempts.

In my temp orders my ex got default temp custody and temp majority time.  I reported continuing issues but the court never changed the order.  My lawyer had told me to stay quiet and he'd fix it later.  The fix never happened until the Final Decree nearly two years later.  That was a lesson learned... .get the best temp order you can get from the very start or else risk suffering with a lousy order that may never get improved during the possibly lengthy divorce.

[RealityMgt]

Hi all... .I just came from court and have a lot to do right now, but the brief update:

Financial stuff was pretty normal. Not great, but not bad, either.  Split the money that's left, split most costs in a reasonable way, and I pay child/spousal support.

On the parenting plan, my wife threw a curve ball, as I was expecting (just not sure what it would be).  She changed her work schedule from every Saturday to every other Saturday and Sunday, so she could vie for taking half of the Saturdays from me. She got it.  I was devastated and had to step out of the magistrates office for a minute with my L.  I'm convinced that was done solely out of spite. For four and a half years she's worked every Saturday and NEVER had an issue with it.  She said that her lawyer suggested the change, her lawyer smiled smugly, the magistrate looked at her lawyer and said firmly, "shame on you," and she and her lawyer just laughed. On the flip side, I was able to secure Tues and Wed nights at my place, and every other Fri and Sat night.  My wife fought the midweek overnights. She argued that there should be no midweek overnight and that I should simply come over to her place, make them dinner, and put them to bed.  The magistrate thankfully would hear nothing of it. She said, ":)ad's taking them to see his parents out of state this weekend, right? And for four days. And you say the kids have only been there once before. And you're OK with him taking the kids to a new place for four days without you. . . . They'll be fine with midweek overnights with Dad."  So I have the kids 6 of 14 nights. My L said this is very good, actually, for an early stage interim plan.  I'm still really hurt about losing the Saturdays, and going six days every other week without seeing them is going to be ... .BRUTAL... .But my L did note that my wife was very pissed about the "loss" on the midweeks, and I should take that as some form of solace, that hopefully she's beginning to see she can't just walk in and get whatever she wants.

And now we can now start chipping away with that with the GAL.  My L said, in effect, it's time for the gloves to come off. Everything I can think of to show what her and her family are like needs to be on the table. 

I feel like I'm in the battlefield and there was a blast nearby... .ears are still ringing but realizing I have to get my wits about me and keep going. 

[RealityMgt]

Correction: I believe I also get Sunday nights on "my" weekend, because my wife (having changed her work schedule) won't get home until substantiall after the kids' bedtime.  So the plan for time with Dad will be:

Every week:
Tues and Wed nights

Every other week:
Fri, Sat, Sun nights

7 of 14 nights. Not bad.

[flourdust]

7 of 14 nights. Not bad.

This is more than "not bad." This is 50/50 time -- increasing from what was basically 0/100. FANTASTIC!

[formflier]

 
Is the start time specified on the midweek overnights? 

In other words, can you avoid them being dropped off at your place at bedtime and having her say she is "good" with the order.

Overall... .I see this as positive, although certainly frustrating to miss out on the Saturdays.  Hang in there.

 

FF

[livednlearned]

What we are awarded on paper sometimes changes in practice, for the better.

My ex would gift away days and never ask for them in return. Deep down I think he found parenting stressful. There was always some reason he couldn't have our son. I don't know if that's a BPD dad thing or if it applies to moms with BPD.

Ex was supposed to get Wednesday evenings from afterschool to 7pm initially, and then he went and volunteered for a town commission position that met every Wednesday.  

Meanwhile, he raged for more time in court.

But at least when you have things down on paper, you can back it up in court if it comes to that.

[ForeverDad]

This is good, much better than what I lived with for over two years in my temp orders.  I had alternate 72 hour weekends from Fri 6 pm to Mon 6 pm.  And alternate Thurs evenings 6 to 9 pm.  That was literally just 22% time.

You may not get 24 hours for each overnight but it seems that many courts and even the IRS goes by counting the overnights.  That reminds me, I had a very hard time during the divorce to get my ex to share income data so we could still file the less expensive "married, joint" tax returns.  She ignored me and I had to get an extension and ended up filing in October in the last week possible for a couple years.

One mistake with taxes I made was withholding too much.  In order to get her cooperation, her income docs and signature, I had to Gift her half the refund even though all the withholding was mine.

Alternate weekends are standard in the court's view.  Sometimes workers such as doctors, nurses, police and firemen who have frequent weekend schedules get time mid-week but mostly it's alternate weekends.  That give you (and her) a weekend with the children and a weekend off for your own projects or downtime.

Be very cautious about trading time.  Always get it documented in writing emails or, these days, texts.  Sometimes you'll want time, sometimes she'll want time.  You of course would be very careful to follow the agreement.  A pwBPD, um, no so much.  In the early days of our separation my ex usually sought her time first promising me time later but then she ignored it.  So after a couple times I decided that if we traded I would get my half of the trade first since I knew I'd allow the other half.

[RealityMgt]

ForeverDad
All those behaviors sound familiar. Perhaps those exact things haven't happened in my situation (yet), but none of what you said would surprise me. She's taking the kids to her parents for a week next week, and in exchange, I'm taking them to my parents this week.  It's only a four day trip, though, and the magistrate didn't feel like nitpicking over a couple extra days, so that's how it's going to stand right now. Of course my wife got in a quick dig at me with the M.  When asked why she still hasn't bought tickets yet, she was quick to answer that it was because I "haven't let [her] yet".  I have it documented several times in text that I told her I was completely fine with the trip but didn't think I should be paying for it when she was unwilling to pay for any of the kid-related expenses for my apartment.  So, now she's just going to pay it herself. Tickets are now about $400 a piece, times three travelers... .up from the normal $180 or so. Ouch.  Anyways, I understand and relate to everything you're saying. Get everything documented and be sure to have it before giving anything up.  We are ordered to use a communication portal/app in lieu of texting, email, or calls.  My wife got another dig here when asked if she was OK with that, she responded she was very much on board with it because she was tired of getting "all the mean texts" from me.  My jaw literally dropped open when she said that, but thankfully I composed myself quickly and didn't make a scene. My L commended me for that afterward and said this is good because my wife will either "cut the crap" or finally be seen for what she is. The portal is accessible by the GAL and both L's, and it logs when we log on and what messages we view, so there's full accountability here.  

livednlearned
I won't be surprised if something like this happens as well. Winter is particularly hard on my wife and I think a lot of kid things just tire her out.  When we had the big preschool argument this summer (she wanted to change my son's preschool from a great school to a mediocre school because, she claimed, it aligned better with the kids' nap schedule and would give her more 1 on 1 time with our little daughter), I eventually compromised with her and allowed the school change. Now, however, my daughter, when I ask her what she did on days my son is in preschool, she says "class!" which I know is the babysitting room at the rec. center. My wife goes to some exercise class and dumps my daughter in with the babysitter and a bunch of other kids. So much for the 1 on 1 time.  On top of that, my wife claims relocation is a must because she doesn't think you (general "you" should trust anyone but family with your kids.  She has said even an hour or two of daycare after school (when the kids are both school age) until I could pick them up when I get off work, is unacceptable. But here she's dumping our 2 y.o. in with an unqualified stranger and a bunch of random aged kids during the time she's supposed to be having focused 1 on 1 time.  Thankfully, my wife has texted most everything to me, and what she hasn't has been discussed in person and is recorded. 

FormFlier
Yes, the times for exchanges are specified.  I'm picking them up and dropping them off, so I have control of those exchanges, as well. She's on my way to and from work, so it makes sense logistically, also I think she would just see loading them in the car as too much hassle.

We also have Skype/Facetime calls locked in daily with the non-present parent. The kids really like this (my 2 y.o. daughter likes to treat me like a living doll, putting me on her lap, pushing me around in her wagon, etc. it's hilarious).  


All
I went shopping for more kid stuff tonight as something of a celebration for coming out so favorably.  I'm excited to finally have time with them, to be there for them at night when they need me. To give them that sense of security in me again. It just kills me that they haven't had that for almost nine months now.  

With my travel and her travel, it looks like their first night at my place will either be two weeks from tomorrow or the Friday that week.  

I'm so thrilled.

Thank you all for your support in this.  

[ForeverDad]

You know that if there wasn't some special reason for her to travel now that she could reschedule for a couple weeks later and get better flight prices, right?  Much of what she did was posturing.  She was more focused on that than real cooperation or problem solving.

Over time you need to be the problem solver, the one to come up with practical solutions.  Not that it would mean much to her, rather, for the professionals looking over your shoulders and communications.

[takingandsending]

Hi RM,
Congratulations! That turned out really well considering you had some bad precedent set with zero overnights. So happy for you and your kids.
Weather your xw’s crazy projections/accusations - they won’t stop. Focus on your new life with your kids; it gets so much better when you have them in a space that you create with them. And the resources that you have for them goes way up when you aren’t spending half your energy negotiating or accommodating your (former) BPD spouse.

Your result gives me motivation to do more in my custody. I have accepted less than I should and will bring that to next meeting with collaborative legal team. I am pretty sure Court’s would award me 50/50 as well based on my involvement with kids after school and such

[pearlsw]

I am locking this thread because it has reached its length limit. The post originator is welcomed to open a continuation thread on this topic.  Have a great day.