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Author Topic: Still seeking forgiveness and peace of mind  (Read 496 times)
chillamom
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« on: October 10, 2017, 04:36:30 PM »

Hi, all,

I don't post on here as much as before because I sometimes find it too painful to discuss and I also find myself in the grip of a pretty relentless depression, so I'm not much good to anyone - I function pretty well at work and with family, but it's far more difficult than it should be and I've basically given up on much more than merely existing for the foreseeable future.  Therapy has been useless, and medications are contraindicated because of interactions with other stuff I have to take.

Anyway, left the diagnosed BPD/NPD ex in July after a 7 week recycle - I had previously left him several other times, the longest period having been about 5/6 months.  The final break happened this summer after I landed in the hospital with a heart problem that was ultimately unmasked by and related to the stress that his abuse had put me through, coupled with the stress of a planned "intervention " by family and friends to let me know exactly how they perceived the impact of the relationship (the intervention never had to happen because I was terrified when my body "spoke" to me in no uncertain terms).

I have no regrets from leaving, it was the right thing to do.  I chose NOT to go NC and largely out of respect for HIS feelings I've maintained a conversational relationship with him, largely by responding to his texts (I have rarely initiated contact).  I have not seen him at all since July.  

Why then do I still miss him much of the time?  Why am I still crying over someone who even now, routinely texts me how much I suck, and how I never loved him, and how abusive and horrible I am, merely because I choose NOT to get back together with him?  He ramps up the contact every weekend because he hasn't found a replacement and is lonely (I understand that) and then when I turn down his constant offers of dates, sex, etc., he unleashes his verbal barrage on me.  He's constantly begging me to be "flexible" and be in a relationship with him, even though he ultimately plans to ALSO find another partner to have kids with because I'm too old to have them, and an open relationship is NOT something I could accept.

I guess what I'm asking is….is it terribly unusual to be NO closer to recovery/forgiveness/indifference after 3 months. It was a nearly 9 year long relationship, with tremendous volatility, so I attribute a lot to "trauma bonding".  :)o you think it would help if I tried NC NOW, at this point?  I guess I could tell him that the frequent communication was keeping us both stuck, and that it was really hurting me emotionally (him too, I would imagine), but on the other hand he literally has no one to talk to (NO friends, lives at home with abusive parents) and I feel like a lifeline of sorts for him.  I am in no danger of recycling again, I'm sure of that, it would kill me.  But I just want to get over this already!  Any ideas on how to do so would be very much welcome, thanks.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2017, 04:45:30 PM »

I chose NOT to go NC and largely out of respect for HIS feelings I've maintained a conversational relationship with him

Hi chillamom,

I guess this prompts the question, What about respect for your feelings? One thing these relationships can teach us is to have compassion for ourselves.  Sometimes, when we are hurting deeply, having compassion for ourselves has to be a full-time job, number one priority. Then, it becomes easier to take care of others. Down the line, we may even be strong enough to have compassion for people who abused us.

Do you feel you might be rushing yourself to take care of him at a time when you need to take care of yourself?
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2017, 04:59:58 PM »

I have to agree, what about your feelings.

You ask if it is normal to still not be any closer to recovery?

I can only speak for me, but as long as you are still in contact with him you will not recover. I wanted to be there, be a courteous and helpful friend. Felt it was the right thing to do. It was who I wanted to be, what I thought a good person would do.

Then she got a lawyer and demanded no contact.

That was the best thing ever for me. My healing was exponentially better everyday after that. No fear, no regret, just happiness inside me growing. No stress, not afraid of the emails or phone ringing anymore because I knew it wasn't her.

Once she tried to break no contact, by then I knew I never wanted to see or hear from her again. I realized what she had done to me and what she turned me into. Sure I let it happen, but she was why it happened.
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Seenowayout
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2017, 06:28:32 PM »

NC is the right thing in my opinion. It's hard but it's necessary to get unstuck and move on

How many times have you thought after one of his rages about something you did or said  -- "well I would have said this" or "i would have reacted this way".  A calm loving "help me understand" kind of reaction to something i said or did that set her of instead of more bile and ugliness and shame.    I find myself thinking that everytime I replay one of her shaming events.  And that just solidifies for me that we just aren't meant for each other. Despite all the other memories when it seemed we were in the moment and meant for each other. 

He won't change. And you need to love yourself   You don't suck. Not at all
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2017, 06:55:56 PM »

A wound won't heal if you keep poking at it. You've given him three months of a consistent message. If he's still stuck, that's his problem. Close the door and let the healing happen.
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2017, 08:32:11 PM »

I too had a heart condition (a-fib) develop in my early 30's that I believe was at leaast partially affected/maybe caused by years of constant fight-or-flight stress with my exBPDw.  It was diagnosed right before divorce.
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2017, 11:02:32 PM »

I'm on board with the whole "A wound can't heal unless you quit touching it" theory. The contact doesn't help you and isn't helpful for him.

Also it just takes a bloody long time. I still miss my expwBPD and its been years. I am a happy healthy person with a busy full life but I miss him. I really do. Not the thought of him or just having someone but actually him. SO its ok to miss him but until you clear some emotional space in your life nothing new can come to fill it and you will just keep missing him.

You are also not responsible for his feelings or needs anymore. If he is lonely he needs to find soothing elsewhere. He is an adult. You are worth more than being a soother for his loneliness and self misery. You are responsible for your life now.

One last thought. If a person you went on only a couple of dates acted like he does and said the things he does would you put up with it  or would you block him at every turn? IF you wouldn't let a stranger speak to you like that don't let someone who supposedly cares about you speak to you like that. Loved ones are supposed to treat us better than strangers... .not worse. No one deserves to be spoken to in that manner. You are a lovely person with a ton to offer the world or a partner. You do not deserve to be spoken to like that. Every time you hear that it impacts you negatively.

Ok thoughts run out. Hope that you can find some peace and happiness. Its ok to miss him but overtime he comes to mind as a missing him thought replace it with another thought asap. Hugs
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chillamom
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2017, 11:56:59 AM »

Thank you all, I appreciate your kindness and your advice.

Livedandlearned: Compassion for myself has always been one of the issues in my relationship with this person.  I believe if I had had a modicum of such compassion, I would have left due to the verbal and emotional abuse about a month in to the relationship.  Everyone around me tells me that his rather awful behaviors were visible to others right from the start, but I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt and allowing it to happen, and as they say, what you allow will continue.  It continued for nearly a decade.

hisaccount: That must have been hellish when she demanded NC via a lawyer, but it certainly forced your healing and I'm very glad for that.  I think many times we really have to be thrown from the horse before we keep trying to hang on.  I agree that my contact with him is keeping thoughts and such far too active in my mind, and the the last part of the cord should be cut.  It's difficult because he still has my sympathy and excels at manipulating it.

seenowayout  I specialize in replaying a lot of negative moments as well, and I think a "just weren't meant for each other" attitude is something that I can cultivate - logically it is 1000% true.  He still fails to see it that way, and one of my problems is I like to try to get people to see the rational side of a situation.  I forget many times that his dysregulation leaves rational in the dust.

flourdust Yes, I have been consistent in my message of "no", but part of his personality is extreme perseveration - in addition to BPD/NPD, one psychiatrist also picked up on autistic traits (what used to be called Asperger's) and I think an aspect of this is his inability to understand finality.  Coupled with my inability to want to hurt people; it's a bad blend.

torched afib is exactly what I'm dealing with as well.  My cardiologist says the condition may not be caused by stress initially, but once the groundwork is there it is absolutely triggered by stress…and separating from a PD person certainly qualifies.  I hope you are doing well with your condition now….I'm good so far.  Haven't had a single episode since he hasn't been present in my life, so that says a lot.

and hope 2727 flourdust and you are absolutely correct.  I'm poking at this wound on a daily basis and then surprised when I still feel awful.  One of the things I've always done for him is to carry his feelings for him…probably very enabling at many levels, because what we basically have here is a 31 year old adult who is incapable of managing himself.  I'm sure I played a role in that by sticking around as long as I did, and he's just flat out angry that I'm not there to be the emotional garbage dump any more.    I do also feel you when you say it just takes a bloody long time….unlike you, however, I think at the bottom of it I miss having SOMEONE, not him per se (although that's a big component).  Having physically not been around him in months IS definitely helping me get a clearer head, but obviously not as clear as it needs to be,

And if a relative stranger said the stuff to me that he does, I'd probably get my 30 pound Maine Coon cat to attack them.  or worse.  Seriously, you're right….I let him get away with ridiculous levels of verbal and emotional terrorism (really) over the years because "love conquers all".  No, it most decidedly does not, sad to say.

Thank you everyone for your comments, it absolutely helps me to see reality more clearly.
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2017, 07:47:43 PM »

Chillamom,

I am glad you are feeling a little more centered. I had one more thought.

A psychologist told me its not my job to be my ex's emotional tampon. Kind of an accurate image. I soaked up his sorrow and pain and frustration when he couldn't handle it. I got mad with him or for him when he felt he had been treated unfairly. I held him while he sobbed over his hurt feelings. I was the place he came to dump his rages and everything else. But then he ran off to celebrate his good times with other people. And when I was suffering and needed support he was unavailable. So don't be like me. I have my own emotions to deal with. I am happy to support and rally around others but it has to be reciprocal. Mine wasn't.

You are worthy of a happy healthy life. HE doesn't contribute to that and he actively detracts from it. Scrape him off like poo on a shoe and move on. (Another wise psychologist saying )  I know it is WAY WAY harder to do then say and I am just as guilty of missing mine but please know you don't have to keep taking his abuse.

Hugs.
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2017, 06:29:22 AM »


Then she got a lawyer and demanded no contact.

That was the best thing ever for me. My healing was exponentially better everyday after that. No fear, no regret, just happiness inside me growing. No stress, not afraid of the emails or phone ringing anymore because I knew it wasn't her.

Once she tried to break no contact, by then I knew I never wanted to see or hear from her again. I realized what she had done to me and what she turned me into. Sure I let it happen, but she was why it happened.


Mine filed a Ppo after I left July 4yh gifts on her porch. Then refused to give me back my stuff.

Anyway. It has helped me realize her mental state and that all the love bombing at the beginning was part of the mental illness.

Her mantra from her most recent exhubby was:
 'out of sight, out of mind'?
She even used that phrase in describing it, and told me it took her almost 2 yrs to file for her divorce.

I'm sure she has moved on to her next "host(s), like a parasite. When When I use that term, it was never about the money with her it was just about the intimacy that she lacked in her life. She even refused to take grocery money from me when she was making me these fabulous meals that I still miss to this day
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chillamom
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2017, 10:28:35 AM »

Hope2727, thanks.  You are more than correct in that he doesn't contribute anything positive to my life at this point; I feel that in my head 100% but my heart is still tone deaf.  I love your T's analogy of the emotional tampon,  , I feel similarly.  I soaked up all of his negativity for years and it quite badly affected me; now it's time to turn my attention towards myself which I am decidedly NOT good at doing.  I don't mind being a "nurturer", in fact I love it and fit pretty well into kind of a maternal role with everyone (my students even call me "Mom"... .) but it would be nice to have even a little reciprocity, as you said.  The one time I could have really used a lot of support was when my father died last March- ex told me "I don't want to hear you grieving for your father anymore."  His (diagnosed) NPD was pretty evident on that one!  Anyway, thank you and I hope this day finds you doing well!
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chillamom
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2017, 02:19:01 PM »

beezleconduit, I think frequent reminders that the behavior we were exposed to was indeed part and parcel of the mental illness is a good thing to focus on.  When I look for rational explanations and can't find any, I have to remember that I was dealing with a fundamentally irrational person during the frequent times of his dysregulation.  I guess that this thought process helps us to depersonalize things, otherwise it  is a terrible blow to our sense of self.  BTW, love your screen name….a reference to being a conduit for beelzebub?  Nice.
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2017, 06:12:12 AM »

beezleconduit, I think frequent reminders that the behavior we were exposed to was indeed part and parcel of the mental illness is a good thing to focus on.  When I look for rational explanations and can't find any, I have to remember that I was dealing with a fundamentally irrational person during the frequent times of his dysregulation.  I guess that this thought process helps us to depersonalize things, otherwise it  is a terrible blow to our sense of self.  BTW, love your screen name….a reference to being a conduit for beelzebub?  Nice.
Good concise summary
Yes, my ex pwBPD mirrored my Christian beliefs at the beginning. As we became more intimate and saw more macabre tattoos (skulls, bats, etc) and her wearing a skull necklace, refusing to say Grace before meals and disparagement of Catholicism, I realized that she was a fan of Levayan Satanism.
Mostly, after the breakup I ran internet searches on her exhubby(s) and they have all that Satan craps as musicians. Both were musicians at a goth underground music venue. Plus, she loved horror films and admitted hanging out at that club.
I came up with the name after research of types of Satanism.
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2017, 07:23:33 AM »

I don't know what your religious background is, but forgiveness is when you recognize what the person did to you, acknowledge your feelings, admit that you need to let it go, and turn the individual over to your view of God, Destiny, or at least their own devices. Sometimes going to the person is called for, but you have to begin with yourself. You don't need the other person to do anything to forgive them. Forgiveness is not reconciliation or trusting them again. That requires evidence of change on their part.

You can do the same for yourself. Many of us have contributed to the problems. I was codependent and didn't hold him accountable for what he did to me and our children. So I had to forgive myself.

Because I'm a Christian, I also had to forgive God for allowing this mess in our lives. Your theology may be different.

It was a huge step for me when I realized that forgiveness began with me.

I still don't sleep well at times and have some tough days, but I'm doing OK after two months. We still communicate via email for financial reasons that my therapist agrees with, but I handle the love/hate cycles more clinically. If I get a lovey-dovey email, I know that I'll get a hate email if I don't respond exactly the way he wants. Then a few days later an apology.  I never know day-to-day where I'll be with him, but it really doesn't matter now. I've detached.
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MeandThee29
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2017, 07:38:16 AM »

I soaked up all of his negativity for years and it quite badly affected me; now it's time to turn my attention towards myself which I am decidedly NOT good at doing.  I don't mind being a "nurturer", in fact I love it and fit pretty well into kind of a maternal role with everyone (my students even call me "Mom"... .) but it would be nice to have even a little reciprocity, as you said.  The one time I could have really used a lot of support was when my father died last March- ex told me "I don't want to hear you grieving for your father anymore."  His (diagnosed) NPD was pretty evident on that one!  Anyway, thank you and I hope this day finds you doing well!

I'm also an educator. My therapist once commented that educators have more of problem with copendency than some, and to watch that the nurturing is done in a non-codependent way. My husband was never satisfied with my love. I did crazy, unhealthy things trying to please him. I also thought that my love would change him and save our marriage. I was wrong.

Mine was also not there either for me when my parents died. When my dad died, he didn't speak for me for a month after I came home because I had spoken to a male friend from the past at the funeral who came to see me and give his support. I hadn't even ever dated the guy when I lived there; he was just a friend in a young adult group I belonged to. My friend was happily married with a teenager too. When my mom died, my husband kept telling me to get over it for months afterwards. She was NPD, and he kept saying that I should be glad she was gone!
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« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2017, 08:52:34 AM »

Hi Chillamom,
I just broke up with my boyfriend (3 weeks ago). I never thought I would be able to go NC and I'm still not there yet - but I'm having very little contact with him now. First I just ignored his phone calls and texts - then I responded to a few - then I started to wait to answer. I waited and thinking about what to tell him. Time went on and finally there's was no need to answer him. It's been more then one week now that I'm not talking to him or responding to his texts and emails. It just seems to get easier with time. Other times when we were broken up it would be constant messaging anyway - like "good morning" and "good night" - I decided not to respond to that. He also stopped calling and texting me all the time now since I'm not answering. It feels so good not to have to stress every time I hear the phone or see there's a text message. Give yourself that peace! Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
donkey2016
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chillamom
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2017, 10:03:45 AM »

MeandThee29 thanks for your words about forgiveness; I think that indeed the person I need to forgive first and foremost is myself.  I have a hard time NOT berating myself for spending the better part of a decade spinning my wheels and trying to "help" this person.  I can decide intellectually to forgive myself and him as well, but it's going to take a long time for the emotions to catch up and the self-blame to stop.

donkey2016Its good to hear that the NC is working for you and that your stress level if lessening as the days go by.  My ex is constantly texting me and I still don't have the strength not to respond.  I think that even the most innocuous of messages (like replies to "how are you" give him the false hope that I want to go through another ride on the merry go round, which I don't.  I have a hard time NOT responding because I put myself in his place and think about how it must feel…but on the other hand I need to stop.
[
My birthday was Wednesday, and an event occurred that made changes in my life seem both very necessary and very urgent. I was rear ended by a driver who had apparently had a heart attack, and I was waiting at a toll booth to pay my toll.  I was hit, according to police, at about 90 mph.  My care literally shattered around me.  The other person died on impact, I walked away without a scratch.  I think it was an honest to God miracle that I'm still here.  It's a lot to grasp, but what a wake up call about the fragility of life.  I can't afford to play this game with my ex any longer.

And sorry that this last paragraph is bolded - I can't seem to turn if off!
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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2017, 08:51:32 PM »

Hi Chillamom,

Wow - that was amazing that you're not hurt! So lucky. Yes, life is fragile.

I used to also feel very guilty for my ex boyfriend and feeling sorry for him. But would he feel sorry for me if he found someone else and wanted to break up? Would he answer me if he didn't feel like it? No of course not. Many times I tried to reach him and he would had turned off the phone. If he had wanted to break up with me there would have been any compassion from his side. He wouldn't have kept answering phone calls and texts. How about your ex? I get the impression that he wouldn't keep contact with you out of compassion. Keep that in mind and it becomes so much easier not to answer.
donkey2016
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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2017, 02:03:15 PM »

Hi Chillamom,

Good to hear you are trying to put an end to the madness. I am with you every step of the way. I finally went NC with my exuBPD married lover two weeks ago. You may remember I originally broke it off last February after she came back from a cruise and told me she couldn't see me anymore because her husband had discovered the affair. I cut it off then because I knew there was never going to be any future with this woman. Plus we are both married. I won't go into all of the details but she came back into my life in pretty dramatic fashion (after a suicide bid) and then I wanted to support her.

It is so very hard to let somebody go who has been part of our lives for so long. I had decided that I would try to remain 'friends' and keep her on FB thus allowing her access to my life. A major feature of our r/s has been her ST over a great many years, so I've never been totally comfortable with keeping contact for fear of being hurt. Then two weeks ago she announced she was coming to my home town with her husband. I was feeling abandoned, resentful and manipulated all over again. My ex has behaved like that dance The Hokey Cokey 'You put your left leg in, your left leg out' and I just didn't want it in my life anymore. It was made easier for me this time because she went several days of not speaking and so I cut her off FB. Her protests on this occasion were limited because I think not even she could put herself through all the emotional trauma again.

I feel great compassion for her. I don't want her out of my life - but we were no good for each other and no good for our respective relationships. We had tugged at each other and pushed each other and done damage. It was finally clear to me after 15 years that my ex was in no way committed to me and never was going to be. Nor did she care about my feelings or anything about my life. All she cares about is her own needs. I could not live in that world anymore.

Excerpt
I don't mind being a "nurturer", in fact I love it and fit pretty well into kind of a maternal role with everyone (my students even call me "Mom"... .) but it would be nice to have even a little reciprocity, as you said.  The one time I could have really used a lot of support was when my father died last March- ex told me "I don't want to hear you grieving for your father anymore."  His (diagnosed) NPD was pretty evident on that one!  Anyway, thank you and I hope this day finds you doing well!

I feel exactly the same way you do. I am very good at being a caregiver when emotionally engaged. I was there for her when her brother and her father died. I was compassionate and loving towards her. Then last year on her birthday she complained that her husband had nothing planned. I offered to come up and take her out and even wrote her a poem (sap that I am) and then I got a text saying he was taking her out for a meal and that her daughter had planned a spa day for her. I didn't hear from her for three days. That is just one example in a litany of neglect on her part.

NC for you is the way forward. Your health is demanding that you steer clear of this type of trauma. Your ex will fend for himself. Remember a pwBPD can present as very needy (my ex was a waif) but they are survivors and latch on to whoever they need to in order to get their needs met. My r/s was complicated by a very strong sexual attraction and it sounds to me like you may be in a similar position. However, the price we pay for having that need met is way too high. I am an intelligent man and yet I settled for a woman who didn't have an awful lot to say about life (despite being seven years my senior and behaving quite arrogantly) or much of a good word to say about anybody or anything. I am now asking myself why I settled for that for so long. I think the answer is codependent attachment and strong chemistry on my part. She was engaged for a short period of time, but it was always me driving the physical agenda. I always felt she could take it or leave it most of the time. Hey ho.

Look after yourself chillamom. You only have one heart. Keep it healthy.
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« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2017, 07:32:47 PM »

Hi Chillamom

Really glad to hear you survived such a bad accident.

You will definitely benefit from going 100% NC, even just seeing our ex.'s number on a call log showing they are trying to reach us eases the pain temporarily but only prolongs it.
Through the combination of idealization turning to devaluation because of the saddest part of the disorder (the closer you get the more you are pushed away) and their psychological defenses we end up seeing the exact opposite of actual reality; a reality where our PWBPD is constantly better than us and we are constantly not good enough. Subconsciously we see this reality, and consciously we fight it. We put our PWBPD on the pedestal we were on during idealization, our entire self worth depends on what our PWBPD thinks of us and whether they want to be with us or not. Going from a flicker of hope to no hope is a huge leap and very painful (heart on the same page as the head).

NC and learning enough are the keys to recovery and reaching compassion for a very mentally ill person.
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Lost-love-mind
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« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2017, 06:02:10 AM »


My r/s was complicated by a very strong sexual attraction and it sounds to me like you may be in a similar position. However, the price we pay for having that need met is way too high. I am an intelligent man and yet I settled for a woman who didn't have an awful lot to say about life
My edit
(... .with no formal education beyond HS, full of knowledge of government conspiracy theories, paranoia of people in her neighborhood... .)


behaving quite arrogantly) or much of a good word to say about anybody or anything. I am now asking myself why I settled for that for so long. I think the answer is codependent attachment and strong chemistry on my part. She was engaged for a short period of time, but it was always me driving the physical agenda. I always felt she could take it or leave it most of the time. Hey ho.


Yes, I settled for a gorgeous blonde with beautiful blues eyes. The love bombing during idealization was great for my ego.
But at some time she decided intimacy was not in our future. Despite her sexting and sending me provacative pictures of herself
This acknowledgement sends me too far back.
Time to move on. Shed the guilt.
Keep up the NC. Keep up the faith.
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I'm a pwBPD traits, diagnosed.
RomanticFool
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2017, 01:40:07 AM »

Hi  beezleconduit,

Not wishing to hijack chillamom's post, but your reply strikes me as empathetic to my situation

Excerpt
es, I settled for a gorgeous blonde with beautiful blues eyes. The love bombing during idealization was great for my ego.
But at some time she decided intimacy was not in our future. Despite her sexting and sending me provacative pictures of herself
This acknowledgement sends me too far back.
Time to move on. Shed the guilt.
Keep up the NC. Keep up the faith.

I felt she was 'granting' me intimacy as a way of keeping me hooked, rather than coming from any real desire on her part. When we were in the height of our  r/s I told her just seeing her made me excited. I asked her how things were for her, she said, 'When I see you standing at the station I get excited.' It wasn't until things started to go wrong that I realised she was merely copying what I had said to her. She sent me lots of photos of herself (never naked as she hated herself so much) but what she wanted, and what I always provided, was reinforcement of how beautiful she was. She couldn't get enough of me telling her how attractive a woman i found her. The sadness is that she needed this to feel vaguely human. I feel more compassion for her than anything now.
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