Kids Suddenly Wanting to See Their Mother More

[Torched]

Things have been running smoothly for about four months.  My kids really seem to be comfortable with me and enjoy their time with me in the 50/50 setup.  They frequently state before leaving to go to their mother's house even after our fifth day on a 5/2/2/5 schedule that they don't want to leave.  My D10 is especially like this, and she was the one who was overly enmeshed with her mother during the divorce period last year.  My D10 was chided the other day in front of me by my S13 for "never telling her mother that she misses her or doesn't want to leave" when it is time to go to dad's.  So my S13 was kind of protecting his mom's feelings in absentia I guess.

Both of my children are very annoyed by mom and dad's romantic partners; or at least, the idea of them being around.  My GF is only around the kids occasionally as it is a long distance relationship; my ex's BF is around constantly (although I know him and he is a good guy/Mr. Fix-It/perfect "next BPD victim) but the kids really don't like that mom now spends all her emotional currency on him.

Recently however, just last week, we returned from a really fun filled weekend with my family that the kids enjoyed and my son asked if he could ride his bike over to his mother's house to see her.  I said that it was fine, and he said he was only going to be there for 15 minutes.  Once my D10 found out, she wanted to go.  Neither of them has ever done this to see me when they are with the xBPD.

I had a lot of fears surrounding the enmeshment of my D10 last year and worried about Parental Alienation.  It did not come to pass but I don't feel out of the woods yet.  More importantly, I don't want the kids to become re-enmeshed with their mother if the boyfriend isn't working out.  My D10's counselor advised that if the boyfriend did not work out, my D10 would become re-enmeshed as a support for my xuBPDw.  I did find out that he was gone on business all week during her time and that the kids really enjoyed this.

One final funny thing:  I occasionally check my son's search history on his devices because I have rules about what he should not be looking at online.  His account became linked to his mother's recently and when I checked, her searches showed up too.  There were searches for "how to know if you are being too passive/aggressive toward your boyfriend" etc.  This was her hallmark treatment when triggered (cold shouldering especially).

[kells76]

Hi Torched, nice to meet you  I haven't been on the boards much in the last 6+ months but this group has been amazingly helpful for our situation ever since I found them about 2 years ago. DH has 2 lovely kids SD11 & SD9, & their mom is uBPD-ish (just for some background).

We were in a really similar situation to yours this past summer. Lots of things going well, then a big change at Mom's house (Mom went on a long trip solo). SD9 did fine but SD11 couldn't handle it. Lots of care taking of stepdad (parentified/enmeshed kid). DH & I & kids were supposed to take a weekend trip but SD11's anxiety was thru the roof. To her credit she was able to talk about it with DH instead of trying to run away (has happened once... .), and DH decided to let her stay w/ stepdad that weekend. It wasn't ideal but it sent SD the message (counter to the narrative that Mom & stepdad had been pushing for years) that DH really cared about how SD11 felt.

So I think you did a good job having your kids bike to their mom's house. It's hard when it seems like the kids don't do that for you when they're with mom. Remember they might not feel as free to say Hey Mom, I miss Dad, can I go see him real quick? Just keep being the kind of parent where your kids know they can tell you they want to see Mom and you are emotionally ok with it.

And yeah, I can relate to wondering if the kids' behavior is influenced by Mom's relationship. You're not alone there. Not sure if I have advice on making it better... .I think just keep working on being someone your kids feel like they can talk to (advice to myself, too!)

Glad to hear your D10 has a counselor. That has been the #1 thing helping SD11 go from angry & enmeshed to affectionate & (starting to be) separate. Do you have one too?

Anyway, nice to meet you, and time to let the old timers have a turn with advice

[Torched]

Hi Torched, nice to meet you  I haven't been on the boards much in the last 6+ months but this group has been amazingly helpful for our situation ever since I found them about 2 years ago. DH has 2 lovely kids SD11 & SD9, & their mom is uBPD-ish (just for some background).

We were in a really similar situation to yours this past summer. Lots of things going well, then a big change at Mom's house (Mom went on a long trip solo). SD9 did fine but SD11 couldn't handle it. Lots of care taking of stepdad (parentified/enmeshed kid). DH & I & kids were supposed to take a weekend trip but SD11's anxiety was thru the roof. To her credit she was able to talk about it with DH instead of trying to run away (has happened once... .), and DH decided to let her stay w/ stepdad that weekend. It wasn't ideal but it sent SD the message (counter to the narrative that Mom & stepdad had been pushing for years) that DH really cared about how SD11 felt.

So I think you did a good job having your kids bike to their mom's house. It's hard when it seems like the kids don't do that for you when they're with mom. Remember they might not feel as free to say Hey Mom, I miss Dad, can I go see him real quick? Just keep being the kind of parent where your kids know they can tell you they want to see Mom and you are emotionally ok with it.

And yeah, I can relate to wondering if the kids' behavior is influenced by Mom's relationship. You're not alone there. Not sure if I have advice on making it better... .I think just keep working on being someone your kids feel like they can talk to (advice to myself, too!)

Glad to hear your D10 has a counselor. That has been the #1 thing helping SD11 go from angry & enmeshed to affectionate & (starting to be) separate. Do you have one too?

Anyway, nice to meet you, and time to let the old timers have a turn with advice

Thanks for your sensible comments... .it is good to help see things like this from a different perspective... .

[takingandsending]

Hi Torched.

I think that you did what any caring parent would do: you supported your children's desire to be with their mom. I just had that come up this weekend with S6 who wanted to spend more time with his mom over the weekend. It is tough, because I doubt my xw would similarly let them hang out with me during her access time if they asked.

But our job is to give them safe, consistent, healthy attachment, as we are the only parents for the kids that can provide that (barring new SOs who may be able to provide that over time).

Anyway, I think you did the right thing. You can't control what your xw does, only what you do.

[livednlearned]

One of the best skills that worked for me was asking my son validating questions, to help him locate his own feelings -- a big part of developing a distinct sense of self separate from others.

For example, when S16's uBPD/bipolar dad gave him devices, I would say something like, "You ok? I notice your brow is furrowed and your shoulders are drawn in, and you seem a little sad (validation via body language)."

Pause.

"I see you have the gift dad gave you in your hands."

Then I give him space to say what he wants to say, if anything.

A lot of times, the devices felt to S16 like a form of surveillance and control, and a source of conflict (with uBPD dad accusing me of spying on their conversations, something he would almost obsessively hash out with S16, instead of just connecting with him and asking about his day). If S16 opened up, and I validated his feelings or used validating questions, it helped him feel like he was solving his own problem instead of me putting him in the middle, providing my own solution. Which can be problematic because it strips away autonomy and keeps the drama triangle going.

BPD parents often invert the parent/child role, where the parent demands validation from the child, instead of vice versa. A kid feeling responsible for how mom or dad feels puts a big burden on them, so when you validate how they feel, it relieves a chronic sense of responsibility, even if they can't verbalize that sensation. Eventually, we can hope that our kids begin to recognize that something feels better when they're with you (acknowledgment that their feelings are valid), and less so with mom. And embrace the role their own feelings play in standing up for themselves.

I'm trying to imagine what I might say if I were in the situation you describe.

"Are you worried about your mom being alone?"

Maybe just something that simple for now, to check your hypothesis that the kids are going over there out of a sense of duty. If you can ask these difficult questions without judgment, the kids may be more likely to describe to you why they're doing something. That gives you more of an opening to validate how they might feel, and offer some alternative ways of seeing themselves as parents to their own mother.

On a side note, my son was very forthcoming about stuff through 11, and almost to the day he began to clam up at age 12, which is apparently a normal developmental thing. I had to learn to validate S16's body language because in general he became less talkative. Although I noticed that he could open up when we drove together in the car, and I often had to use that time to casually bring stuff up to see if he would engage.

Once they stop talking to us, that gives the BPD parent a bigger opening to influence how they perceive reality, including how to think about us.  

[takingandsending]

I'm trying to imagine what I might say if I were in the situation you describe.

"Are you worried about your mom being alone?"

Maybe just something that simple for now, to check your hypothesis that the kids are going over there out of a sense of duty. If you can ask these difficult questions without judgment, the kids may be more likely to describe to you why they're doing something. That gives you more of an opening to validate how they might feel, and offer some alternative ways of seeing themselves as parents to their own mother.

Isn't it possible, though, that we are projecting are own thoughts v. kids' thoughts? How can you tell? "Are you worried about your mom being alone?" is an open ended question. But it contains a suggestion about what you think son or daughter are worried about. Or is this just using some empathy? I would be worried about son or daughter building resentment for us doing the very thing that we worry that BPDx will do, project their feelings on to our kids.

[livednlearned]

Good point.

Yes 

[Torched]

Much food for thought... .

It is really easy to validate my d10-'s feelings.  You are correct about my S13's feelings being impossible to even ferret out.  He has clammed up due to becoming a teenager.

That said, I can GUARANTEE that my ex has never once validated ANYTHING they have felt, ever.

My daughter called me last night upset to tell me about her test score being less than 100% (she always gets perfect scores and had a rough test).  I validated her feelings by asking her if she felt that ANYONE could be perfect, all the time.  She said no and after more discussion felt better.  That was the only reason she called me.  To feel better.  Because mom probably told her to study harder.

Thanks everyone.

[ForeverDad]

My separation and later divorce was when my son was 3 years old.  At exchanges he always came running to me and would often delay, cry, struggle when I returned him to her.  He was 6 when the divorce was final and I went from alternate weekends to equal time.  The schedule was 2-2-5-5, she got Mon-Tue overnights, I got Wed-Thu overnights and we alternated the 3 overnight weekends.  He still resisted returning to her.

Well, there were still parenting conflicts so I went back to court for custody and sought majority time as well.  When I won the first step and the court assigned him a lawyer (Guardian ad Litem or GAL) my ex felt threatened.  He was in 3rd grade by then — almost your daughters current age — and at the next exchange he returned to me and first thing he exclaimed, "I want 50% time with my mother" which we had had for 2-3 years by then.  Clearly she had coached him and he had discovered, at her prodding, that he wanted to be "fair".  I had to deal with that and the GAL was inclined to hope staying equal time would prod ex to behave better.  So I had the weird experience to walk out with full custody but just equal time (until the next time in court a few years later).

So I wonder if the kids are shifting to thinking of fairness, is there any mother's coaching?