Odd Question About Videos & Computers

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I've seen three lawyers altogether. One I absolutely couldn't stand; however, she did bring up something that I thought I'd ask here on this board.

As some of you know, who've been reading my posts in Conflicted, my H shot a video of 2 teenage girls, called it such a disgusting name that I worried he might be into child porn.

I have also been worried about my personal safety and H's being back on drugs.

Before I knew things were getting so bad between us, H threw away several brand new computers. I took them out of the trash intending to restore to factory settings and donate.

When I opened one, that's when the teenage video downloaded. I contacted a digital forensics company; they cloned the hard drive of that machine. Point: H threw away that computer. In my opinion, anyone could have accessed it.

Got initial report a few days ago, indicating a huge huge huge amount of porn. Already knew H was into porn. A few things the forensic company was concerned about: 1) H is visiting some hidden porn sites. Given that the porn sites he hasn't seen are of She/He's, bondage, and quite a few other fetish types of porn, and he didn't hide those, they were concerned he may have been accessing child porn, particularly because of the teenage video he shot. 2) I'd been concerned about my personal safety, his searches for "Kill" outnumber his searches for ":)ivorce." I tried joking about it that, personally, I'd prefer being divorced than killed, but bottom line it disturbs me. 3) He had a number of searches for 'swastika'  When he is psychotic, he becomes obsessed with Nazis.

For all these reasons, the company suggested they restore the entire hard drive, so I can access everything he's done.

Prior to getting the initial report, I consulted a criminal lawyer to see if the teenage video was even legal. It was. I told that lawyer how I'd gotten it. He didn't seem concerned. I saw another lawyer who didn't seem concerned. This lawyer yesterday, who I didn't like, told me not to delve further into the hard drive; she was concerned about invasion of privacy, and she thought I'd be more hurt by what I found.

If he has child porn on his hard drive, it seems I have an obligation to find that out. (Also found out he masturbated in front of our cleaning woman, and didn't stop when she came into the guest house.) There seems to be something really wrong (duh?).

My T/coach advises I restore the hard drive. My gut is saying the same thing. Advice? Suggestions? Should I double check one last time?

As I said, the searches for "Kill" bother me, as do the sites he was hiding. Finally, the technician said to him it appeared my H may have been accessing the Dark Net.

Thanks.
TMD

[toomanydogs]

I've seen three lawyers altogether. One I absolutely couldn't stand; however, she did bring up something that I thought I'd ask here on this board.

As some of you know, who've been reading my posts in Conflicted, my H shot a video of 2 teenage girls, called it such a disgusting name that I worried he might be into child porn.

I have also been worried about my personal safety and H's being back on drugs.

Before I knew things were getting so bad between us, H threw away several brand new computers. I took them out of the trash intending to restore to factory settings and donate.

When I opened one, that's when the teenage video downloaded. I contacted a digital forensics company; they cloned the hard drive of that machine. Point: H threw away that computer. In my opinion, anyone could have accessed it.

Got initial report a few days ago, indicating a huge huge huge amount of porn. Already knew H was into porn. A few things the forensic company was concerned about: 1) H is visiting some hidden porn sites. Given that the porn sites he hasn't seen are of She/He's, bondage, and quite a few other fetish types of porn, and he didn't hide those, they were concerned he may have been accessing child porn, particularly because of the teenage video he shot. 2) I'd been concerned about my personal safety, his searches for "Kill" outnumber his searches for ":)ivorce." I tried joking about it that, personally, I'd prefer being divorced than killed, but bottom line it disturbs me. 3) He had a number of searches for 'swastika'  When he is psychotic, he becomes obsessed with Nazis.

For all these reasons, the company suggested they restore the entire hard drive, so I can access everything he's done.

Prior to getting the initial report, I consulted a criminal lawyer to see if the teenage video was even legal. It was. I told that lawyer how I'd gotten it. He didn't seem concerned. I saw another lawyer who didn't seem concerned. This lawyer yesterday, who I didn't like, told me not to delve further into the hard drive; she was concerned about invasion of privacy, and she thought I'd be more hurt by what I found.

If he has child porn on his hard drive, it seems I have an obligation to find that out. (Also found out he masturbated in front of our cleaning woman, and didn't stop when she came into the guest house.) There seems to be something really wrong (duh?).

My T/coach advises I restore the hard drive. My gut is saying the same thing. Advice? Suggestions? Should I double check one last time?

As I said, the searches for "Kill" bother me, as do the sites he was hiding. Finally, the technician said to him it appeared my H may have been accessing the Dark Net.

Thanks.
TMD

[livednlearned]

Wow.  

I'm glad you have a T that you can talk to, who knows you and will help you through this.

About restoring the hard drive... .when I received conflicting legal advice, I would go back to the person I trusted the most, and bring up the conflicting advice, then ask specifically for feedback on that concern. They usually describe a scenario or two, or say they've never heard of that in their x years of practicing, or describe the judge, or quote caselaw, etc. If there was something that made me nervous, even if it was a remote threat, I would ask them to explain the strategy and tactics they would propose to handle that threat.

Because in all likelihood you are more expert about how your H will behave when under stress and pressure. A lot of lawyers think people will behave like rational actors, and give out advice as though both sides will behave the way most people behave.

If you restore the hard drive, what would you do next? Under what circumstances would your ex discover that this happened?

As for the privacy angle, I'm not a lawyer and no one here can offer legal advice. I will say that in my state, if the electronic device is considered marital property, then there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. But then in child custody terms, my ex putting surveillance software on a phone I bought for our minor child could be tried in a criminal court. Divorce meant that I had a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Another aspect to assessing lawyers. Not all of them are good at trying cases in court. Some are better at filing and details and other things. I always kept that in mind because sometimes lawyers will give advice based on what they are comfortable with. My lawyer was excellent in court, and not so great at paperwork details. So when my ex filed four appeals, my L sent me to a L who specialized in appellate law, which is usually handled by people who are skilled at attention to detail.

A lot of us have high conflict exes who stay negatively engaged in court. Do you think your ex will be like this? What would be your main goal restoring the hard drive? What concerns you most about shining light on the contents of the hard drive?

[toomanydogs]

Wow.  

I'm glad you have a T that you can talk to, who knows you and will help you through this.

Me, too.  

... .when I received conflicting legal advice, I would go back to the person I trusted the most, and bring up the conflicting advice, then ask specifically for feedback on that concern.

I will see one more attorney this week. He is actually the attorney who handled my divorce from my first H. Current H is number 2. Feels a bit serendipitous to hear about this attorney. I was at a party last night, and a friend used him. I'd forgotten his name.

If there was something that made me nervous, even if it was a remote threat, I would ask them to explain the strategy and tactics they would propose to handle that threat.

This is a great idea.

If you restore the hard drive, what would you do next? Under what circumstances would your ex discover that this happened?

If there were child porn, I'd report him. Not surprisingly, given my stewardship of animals, I am likewise committed to kids. People and animals unable to defend themselves always provoke that guardian aspect of myself. I'd report the porn to the police. In my state, the possessor of child porn can be charged federally or by the state. Not a doubt in my mind that I'd report it and hand over the computer.
If I found that he was trolling the Dark Net (this is too much to even fathom) in search of someone to kill me? Oh my god, I'd report that, too.
If there's nothing on the hard drive then my H is unlikely to find out. He could possibly discover the money I paid to the company, if he subpoenaed my bank accounts, and if I were asked about it, I'd let the Court know that due to the threatening emails: ":)ie, you hideous c***," I felt very concerned about my physical safety, and, as he'd thrown away the computer, I looked at that one.

As for the privacy angle, I'm not a lawyer and no one here can offer legal advice. I will say that in my state, if the electronic device is considered marital property, then there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. But then in child custody terms, my ex putting surveillance software on a phone I bought for our minor child could be tried in a criminal court. Divorce meant that I had a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Just did a search regarding getting information from a spouse's computer that wasn't password protected. That would appear to be legal. and phones owned on a family plan seem to be fair game. Of course, I don't have the phone in my possession. :/

A lot of us have high conflict exes who stay negatively engaged in court. Do you think your ex will be like this?

I'm not sure. He has accused me of stealing from him for a very long time. If I just give him the divorce and aim to walk away with just the prenup, he may not want to stay negatively engaged. In addition, the lawyer he hired does not seem like a lawyer that is expensive--more a pay as you go--and I'm not sure my H has the funds right now to finance that kind of divisiveness. If my FIL supports H's action in divorcing me, then sure I think he'd make it contentious.

What would be your main goal restoring the hard drive? What concerns you most about shining light on the contents of the hard drive?

The video he shot of those two girls was disturbing to me and the fact the porn that he didn't hide was so extensive and so disgusting, I am genuinely concerned that he may have child porn.
If he's back on drugs, I want to know. If he is back on drugs, at the very least, I'd notify my FIL, and if I had an action available to me, I'd go after the P because she could have avoided a lot of this behavior.
Isn't it funny that the thing that concerns me most about shining a light on the hard drive is that it would mean the marriage is irrevocably and forever broken.
Good questions to answer on a Sunday afternoon. Thanks LnL.
TMD

[ForeverDad]

I believe putting an item out for trash pickup, or ready for disposal, allows you to salvage it.  In any case, don't sell yourself short.  This is an example of "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission."  What that means is you go ahead and do what you feel is best and plead ignorance, for mercy or whatever if the technicalities turn against you later.  You have a valid concern.

You probably need to establish some sort of chain of custody or validity of evidence, you don't want to report something bad and have him claim you had someone put it on there to entrap/frame him.

[toomanydogs]

You probably need to establish some sort of chain of custody or validity of evidence, you don't want to report something bad and have him claim you had someone put it on there to entrap/frame him.

The company I hired to clone the hard drive works in these types of cases (and business theft) quite a bit. Maybe I'm being naive, but I think I'm protected at that end.

One thing good: I no longer feel like I'm stuck in a nightmare. I now feel much more like I'm in the middle of a movie. Dial M for Murder. Or when I prefer something lighter, "Throw Mama From the Train."

Whatever, this has a definite feel of unreality.

TMD

[livednlearned]

If I found that he was trolling the Dark Net (this is too much to even fathom) in search of someone to kill me? Oh my god, I'd report that, too.

If there's nothing on the hard drive then my H is unlikely to find out. He could possibly discover the money I paid to the company, if he subpoenaed my bank accounts, and if I were asked about it, I'd let the Court know that due to the threatening emails: ":)ie, you hideous c***," I felt very concerned about my physical safety, and, as he'd thrown away the computer, I looked at that one.

It sounds like you are leaning toward recovering the hard drive, based on your instincts, and you are also gathering information, carefully protecting yourself. Your wise self is in the house 

In our cases, having leverage is especially important, and so is documentation. They can be the twin pillars of protection from someone who is legally very high conflict.

And so is having a legal strategy, something that lawyers do not always outline in that consultation. But getting them to outline a strategy and describe different tactics could be very helpful in a case like yours, I would think. In all likelihood, you will need to push them to come up with a strategy. Remember that they work for you. 

It may also be important to ask each of the Ls how long you should expect to wait before he or she responds to an email, how many other cases they have at the moment, what if any work will be handled by an associate (this can save money, so it can be a mixed bag).
My L was often annoyed at Ls who would take every client -- she felt there was a limit to what a person could handle and guaranteed that she would respond to me in 24 hours at the latest. Having someone be reliable like that can be psychologically significant when you're going through a divorce like this.

 It took me a while to also catch on to the fact that lawyers cut deals with other lawyers -- you may want to tell any L who works with you that you do not want them to grant extensions without your permission (like postponing a hearing to accommodate the other L's schedule). My L was very collegial with my ex's L, there was mutual respect at the same time competition to get a win. I had to ask her to stop accommodating his requests to reschedule because it fed into my ex's strategy to stonewall and obstruct and keep us in a continual state of negative engagement.

With your evidence and documentation, it's possible that just a hint of the hard drive will get the opposing L to convince your ex to move quickly and get things done so that the hard drive never sees the light of day. Again, not a lawyer here  My experience is based on recognizing how Ls don't always catch the PD aspects of our cases because those behaviors can appear normal when it happens once or twice. It's the pattern of behavior that tips things off, and you don't want to stack up 15 continuances before realizing your ex's L is using the calendar to wear you down.

Isn't it funny that the thing that concerns me most about shining a light on the hard drive is that it would mean the marriage is irrevocably and forever broken.

I completely understand. There are psychological and emotional stages to our divorces. The hard drive represents the stage you might reach in a few years, when you look back and wonder what the what. Whereas right now you are still working through the grief of losing a loved one, as tricky (and dangerous) as that love may be.

Many of us here found it hard to put ourselves first, even when it came to safety.

[toomanydogs]

It sounds like you are leaning toward recovering the hard drive, based on your instincts, and you are also gathering information, carefully protecting yourself. Your wise self is in the house 

In our cases, having leverage is especially important, and so is documentation. They can be the twin pillars of protection from someone who is legally very high conflict.



Many of us here found it hard to put ourselves first, even when it came to safety.

I will thank my T/coach for pushing/suggesting that I really need documentation and leverage.

And it is very hard to put myself first. As I've told people, I make an incredibly good mother of small children; I am incredibly good with animals. (Both of these require I put the other first). I also make a really good wife, again because I tend to put my H first. And I make a rotten girlfriend. I get jealous, insecure. Don't like it at all.

Have a good day. I'm off to call psychiatrists and lawyers, meet with my coach, and color my hair. Not necessarily in that order.
TMD