Hard to let go

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I'm not one to usually talk about my feeling or share my struggles with others. But i stumbled on this site while googling similar cases to my own. This has been the worst year of my life. Back in October tensions between my wife and I hit a breaking point. Our daughter was 10 and a half months old and it seemed like since my wife had gotten pregnant the relationship just continued to deteriorate. I didn't know what BPD was or that it was even a thing before all this happened, but hindsight is 20/20 they say. We had several big fights, to be honest they were over nothing, stupid stuff like me leaving the toilet seat up or setting my bag on her sandals when I clearly remember not setting it there. I admit it, when i get angry i yell, i raise my voice, i am not perfect, we had fights but I NEVER laid a hand on her or the baby, I never demeaned her or called her names. I remember one before my daughter was born, the wife said i never wanted the baby, because i wanted to wait longer before having kids. I was so mad i walked 3 hours to my church to pray. But I'm rambling so ill cut to the chase. We had a fight, a big one, she accused me of being just like her, apparently abusive father. I argued that I was not and in fact she acted just like how she described him. The stonewalled me. I which was her usual tactic, leaving us as usual with no resolution. I was mad i went to cool off, worked out, talked with my dad and my best friend. When I returned home, she asked me to leave. I was against this, I didn't want to leave my home, my family, especially my daughter. But I was told if i didn't she would take the baby and leave. Reluctantly i left, at least i knew my daughter was safe. I asked how long and was told after we saw a therapist. I set up an appointment the next day, they were able to fit us in. I took off work and we met with a therapist. We talked, mostly introductions said our sides and left. I asked my wife when i could come home, the answer was, when I was better in fact by the time i bought us a house she would be ready to move in with me again. A few more days passed, I got some legal advice that told me not to leave my daughter or it may hurt me in custody. I went back, said I wanted to move out of our bedroom and into the guest room, she refused to give me back my key. In the end I had to call the police just to get my key to the apartment back. But doing so she took the baby and left. She kept the baby from me for days and wouldn't tell me where she was. More days passed, she was insisting I was abusive now. By the weekend her mother came down from 2 states away and they moved ALL of her stuff out. I was lucky and a friend tipped me off that she was trying to sell off things like our TV. My parents and best friend agreed to watch my place while I was at work. They showed up and took everything thing of hers and the baby's and had my family not been there everything else as well. Mind you this was in less than a week. I was frantic and terrified she would take my daughter from me. So the next time i got to see my little girl, a day after she took her stuff. I held on and wouldn't let her go. I told my wife she was free to go, but the baby stays. I would call the police if I had to but I wouldn't let them take her. Her mom asked if I would negotiate. I said fine, I wanted a contract that said I could see my daughter every day, even if for a few minutes. We agreed to this, we both signed and it was witnessed by my parents and her mother, so I let the baby go with them. I regret that now. They refused to honor the contract saying it was a hostage situation. She slammed the door in my face. Luckily she was staying with my daughter's Godmother, who was a single mother of 3, and said she had to let me see my daughter. My wife insisted i get help for anger problems and when the first therapist said, I didn't have anger issues, my wife quit therapy and told me to find another therapist, she sent me to 2 other therapists, both said I didn't have anger issues, and the third, he took my paperwork, said I didn't need therapy, but told me to research BPD. He said, there were so many red flags that even though he couldn't make a diagnosis without her there he was fairly sure it was the case. HE told me, "get a lawyer, fight for full custody, save your daughter, break the cycle". I broke down in tears in the parking lot, a mix of relief and sadness. I tried to talk through our issues with the Godmother as a mediator as she refused to see any therapist other than her "women's group" she had started seeing. We were supposed to visit her family over Thanksgiving but i felt uncomfortable as her mom was telling everyone i was abusive. We couldn't come to an agreement, my wife accused me of sexism, and she didn't feel safe and so the Godmother said we shouldn't go. So while i was at work the next day, she went without me, took my daughter out of state, said i wasn't welcome and i'd seem them when they got back after the weekend. I called the police but since she said when she would be back they would do nothing. When she didn't return i went to the police again, but they again wouldn't do anything, because when she returned she went strait to the police, said she was afraid for her life and they put her in a shelter for abused women, mind you I hadn't seen either of them for nearly a week. i got a lawyer as soon as possible, one a friend recommended from his divorce. I filed for separation so we could set up visitation so I could see my daughter. Arguments over text got worse, she insisted I pay all her bills and when I mentioned I was already paying her phone bill as well as insurance she demanded i release her number or she would get a new one. I couldn't do what she wanted while I was at work so she changed her number and cut me off from my daughter, email was the only form of communication now. She changes my plea to divorce. The judge couldn't see us till January so 7 weeks till court i did not see my daughter. Finally I get some time wither her, shes just over 1 and so confused, my heart is broken. The court gives us a few months to have ageed on visitation. around April my ex decides to take a trip over my weekend. She wont tell me when she is coming back, we argue in the police station we make exchanges. She takes the baby and refuses to let me see her for another month insisting I made the child afraid of men. She accuses me of abusing my child, calls for a GAL. When we go to court a month later the judge says there is no evidence of me being abusive and I get 50/50 custody. I wanted full because her actions are not rational but I haven't seen my daughter in a month so I agree. Now my daughter tells me she doesn't love me or want to hug me, when asked who told her to say that, she says mommy, shes 22 months now. I know this was a long post, but sadly this is the condensed version. The divorce trial starts almost a year after all this started. I am just a father fighting to see his daughter, while I am certain my ex would be happy if I suddenly died so she could have the baby all to herself. I feel like I left a lot out trying to fit all this in though. I hate that this all happened, I can't even talk to her, she cut me and any of our friends that spoke up for me out of her life. I lost my family, my home, my job over all of this and if it wasn't for my faith i don't know if I would even be here typing this. I got a new job right away, and worked it till I could get one in my field. The funny thing is the job i have now would have given her what she wanted, to be a stay at home mom, but now I don't know what to think anymore. I'm trying to rebuild my life but I hate my little girl has to grow up with this, her parents divorced and her mother trying to turn her against me.

[DinoKnight]

I'm not one to usually talk about my feeling or share my struggles with others. But i stumbled on this site while googling similar cases to my own. This has been the worst year of my life. Back in October tensions between my wife and I hit a breaking point. Our daughter was 10 and a half months old and it seemed like since my wife had gotten pregnant the relationship just continued to deteriorate. I didn't know what BPD was or that it was even a thing before all this happened, but hindsight is 20/20 they say. We had several big fights, to be honest they were over nothing, stupid stuff like me leaving the toilet seat up or setting my bag on her sandals when I clearly remember not setting it there. I admit it, when i get angry i yell, i raise my voice, i am not perfect, we had fights but I NEVER laid a hand on her or the baby, I never demeaned her or called her names. I remember one before my daughter was born, the wife said i never wanted the baby, because i wanted to wait longer before having kids. I was so mad i walked 3 hours to my church to pray. But I'm rambling so ill cut to the chase. We had a fight, a big one, she accused me of being just like her, apparently abusive father. I argued that I was not and in fact she acted just like how she described him. The stonewalled me. I which was her usual tactic, leaving us as usual with no resolution. I was mad i went to cool off, worked out, talked with my dad and my best friend. When I returned home, she asked me to leave. I was against this, I didn't want to leave my home, my family, especially my daughter. But I was told if i didn't she would take the baby and leave. Reluctantly i left, at least i knew my daughter was safe. I asked how long and was told after we saw a therapist. I set up an appointment the next day, they were able to fit us in. I took off work and we met with a therapist. We talked, mostly introductions said our sides and left. I asked my wife when i could come home, the answer was, when I was better in fact by the time i bought us a house she would be ready to move in with me again. A few more days passed, I got some legal advice that told me not to leave my daughter or it may hurt me in custody. I went back, said I wanted to move out of our bedroom and into the guest room, she refused to give me back my key. In the end I had to call the police just to get my key to the apartment back. But doing so she took the baby and left. She kept the baby from me for days and wouldn't tell me where she was. More days passed, she was insisting I was abusive now. By the weekend her mother came down from 2 states away and they moved ALL of her stuff out. I was lucky and a friend tipped me off that she was trying to sell off things like our TV. My parents and best friend agreed to watch my place while I was at work. They showed up and took everything thing of hers and the baby's and had my family not been there everything else as well. Mind you this was in less than a week. I was frantic and terrified she would take my daughter from me. So the next time i got to see my little girl, a day after she took her stuff. I held on and wouldn't let her go. I told my wife she was free to go, but the baby stays. I would call the police if I had to but I wouldn't let them take her. Her mom asked if I would negotiate. I said fine, I wanted a contract that said I could see my daughter every day, even if for a few minutes. We agreed to this, we both signed and it was witnessed by my parents and her mother, so I let the baby go with them. I regret that now. They refused to honor the contract saying it was a hostage situation. She slammed the door in my face. Luckily she was staying with my daughter's Godmother, who was a single mother of 3, and said she had to let me see my daughter. My wife insisted i get help for anger problems and when the first therapist said, I didn't have anger issues, my wife quit therapy and told me to find another therapist, she sent me to 2 other therapists, both said I didn't have anger issues, and the third, he took my paperwork, said I didn't need therapy, but told me to research BPD. He said, there were so many red flags that even though he couldn't make a diagnosis without her there he was fairly sure it was the case. HE told me, "get a lawyer, fight for full custody, save your daughter, break the cycle". I broke down in tears in the parking lot, a mix of relief and sadness. I tried to talk through our issues with the Godmother as a mediator as she refused to see any therapist other than her "women's group" she had started seeing. We were supposed to visit her family over Thanksgiving but i felt uncomfortable as her mom was telling everyone i was abusive. We couldn't come to an agreement, my wife accused me of sexism, and she didn't feel safe and so the Godmother said we shouldn't go. So while i was at work the next day, she went without me, took my daughter out of state, said i wasn't welcome and i'd seem them when they got back after the weekend. I called the police but since she said when she would be back they would do nothing. When she didn't return i went to the police again, but they again wouldn't do anything, because when she returned she went strait to the police, said she was afraid for her life and they put her in a shelter for abused women, mind you I hadn't seen either of them for nearly a week. i got a lawyer as soon as possible, one a friend recommended from his divorce. I filed for separation so we could set up visitation so I could see my daughter. Arguments over text got worse, she insisted I pay all her bills and when I mentioned I was already paying her phone bill as well as insurance she demanded i release her number or she would get a new one. I couldn't do what she wanted while I was at work so she changed her number and cut me off from my daughter, email was the only form of communication now. She changes my plea to divorce. The judge couldn't see us till January so 7 weeks till court i did not see my daughter. Finally I get some time wither her, shes just over 1 and so confused, my heart is broken. The court gives us a few months to have ageed on visitation. around April my ex decides to take a trip over my weekend. She wont tell me when she is coming back, we argue in the police station we make exchanges. She takes the baby and refuses to let me see her for another month insisting I made the child afraid of men. She accuses me of abusing my child, calls for a GAL. When we go to court a month later the judge says there is no evidence of me being abusive and I get 50/50 custody. I wanted full because her actions are not rational but I haven't seen my daughter in a month so I agree. Now my daughter tells me she doesn't love me or want to hug me, when asked who told her to say that, she says mommy, shes 22 months now. I know this was a long post, but sadly this is the condensed version. The divorce trial starts almost a year after all this started. I am just a father fighting to see his daughter, while I am certain my ex would be happy if I suddenly died so she could have the baby all to herself. I feel like I left a lot out trying to fit all this in though. I hate that this all happened, I can't even talk to her, she cut me and any of our friends that spoke up for me out of her life. I lost my family, my home, my job over all of this and if it wasn't for my faith i don't know if I would even be here typing this. I got a new job right away, and worked it till I could get one in my field. The funny thing is the job i have now would have given her what she wanted, to be a stay at home mom, but now I don't know what to think anymore. I'm trying to rebuild my life but I hate my little girl has to grow up with this, her parents divorced and her mother trying to turn her against me.

[flourdust]

Welcome, DinoKnight! That's a pretty horrible story. I'm glad you've been able to get some support through the court system, so that at least you have 50% custody.

Where is your case right now? Are you still negotiating the final terms of divorce?

It sounds like parental alienation is a big concern in your case. There are a few books that might be helpful, and this is also something you can address with a GAL or parenting consultant. The books I'm going to recommend are Don't Alienate the Kids! and Divorce Poison. (Click on either link for more info.) These have practical advice to manage a situation like yours.

BTW -- just a friendly suggestion -- it's difficult to read a long block of text. Can you break it up into paragraphs next time?

[DinoKnight]

My case in in Missouri, which is in my favor as new laws were passed in favor of fathers just this last year. Though my perticular country is still a bit behind in that regard from my understanding. My case is just starting trial phase in about a month. So far it has just been trying to get some form of custody established so I can be in my daughter's life. My lawyer and i agree she was keeping the child from me in an attempt to make my little girl to forget me.

I will definitely take a look at the books. I am currently reading Splitting, Protecting yourself in a divorce with a BPD person, by the same author.

I apologize for the long block of text, it was late, I was tired, and really didn't expect it to go on for so long.

[ForeverDad]

The funny thing is the job i have now would have given her what she wanted, to be a stay at home mom, but now I don't know what to think anymore.

I walked in your shoes, more or less.  I say that so that you can accept what I have to say.  Nothing would have appeased or mollified your spouse enough to have let you have a say in parenting.  It's her and the child against you, against the world if need be.  I bet she didn't like your friends or your family either.  Those are typical isolationist and blocking behaviors.  It's almost like there is a BPD 101 Handbook out there.

[DinoKnight]

Yeah, I realized that after a while, nothing I did was ever good enough, she tried to separate me from my family, but my friends were okay till they sided with me in the whole issue, then she cut them out of her life. Near the end she was trying to convince me that our problems would go away if I just quit my job. As a new father I couldn't put my family at that risk, even if my job was treating me crappy at the time

[Panda39]

Hi Dinoknight,

I wanted to join the others and welcome you to the BPD Family    I'm glad you found us!

When I first arrived here I was amazed at how similar all of our stories can be.  I'm here because my significant other (SO) has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) and they share 2 daughters.  At the time of their separation his girls were D10 and D14 so obviously older than your daughter.  Like your soon to be ex wife (stbxw), she used her daughters as weapons against their dad. 

There was parental alienation in his case too, the girls were used as spies - they went through everything in their dad's house and reported it back to mom, down to what was in the refrigerator (did you know that having Raspberry Sorbet in the freezer is a crime?  ), the girls went through their dad's phone and read his text messages, and took his computer to their mothers and refused to return it (tried to hack into it) he had to call the police to get it back. 

He also had false allegations of abuse.  My SO was on the phone with his stbxw and got frustrated/disgusted and threw a cordless phone into the couch, which became throwing the phone and it shattered into a million pieces, then became throwing the phone at his daughters, then became not allowing his daughters to call their mother and then became not allowing his daughters to leave (It's pretty amazing that a woman that wasn't there knew all of this and what was even more incredible was her daughters didn't dispute it)... .and finally became charges of child abuse.  He was not allowed to see his daughters until his court date.  And guess who didn't show up?  You guessed it our super concerned for her daughters safety BPDmom she told the court she was sick but was in fact having a mani/pedi with their youngest daughter  .  My SO went to court with his intact cordless phone told his story and the charges were dropped. 

He has since talked with his daughters about this (they are now 21 & 16 and live with him full-time) and they had no idea that they risked not seeing their dad by trying to please their mother.

So he too experienced the divide and conquer strategy and the brainwashing of his daughters.  But the thing is my SO was steadfast in his desire to be in his daughters lives and in spite of how he was treated by their mom (and by his daughters) he continued to fight for what he thought was best for them, just like you are doing with your daughter.  You are doing the right thing, you are being your daughters dad, and you are putting her interests first.  One of the best things you can do to counter act the parental alienation is spend as much time as you can with your daughter show her that you are still the same old dad she's always had.  I know what she is saying is extremely painful you know and I know it's her mom putting those words in her mouth.

The hard part about all of this is that you are dependent on a court to make decisions about your life, it's scary.  You just need to do the best that you can to present your case.  This is a great place to talk it over, get ideas, and strategies from people who have been through what you are going through.

Have you been documenting your stbxw's behaviors?  How do you communicate via phone, text, email or a combination?  Have you been been getting any therapy for yourself it can be helpful to talk about these things with a professional and you have us a peer support too!  It sounds like your stbxw had you back on your heels at the beginning of all this but you are getting more of a handle on your side of things.  Getting that initial 50/50 custody is a good thing. 

What are you struggling with most at the moment? What can we help you with? 

I'm so glad you've found us the members here are great for support, ideas, tools, strategies and even just a place to vent your frustrations.  Everyone here has someone in their lives with BPD or BPD traits we all "get it".

Hang in there, 
Panda39 

[DinoKnight]

Thank you, since i started researching BPD I have been astounded by how similar so many stories can be. A friend of a friend is showing signs of going down the same road I did, and I am trying to share my experiences with him.

I am doing my best to stay steadfast and strong though out all of this. While sometimes it seems so dark, I realize that i am way stronger than I ever thought I could be. As to what do I need, what would help me I'm not really sure. Not unless there is a way to get my ex evaluated so she can get help. I don't want her out of my daughter's life, but above all I want my daughter protected. If I can get full or primary custody I will, just so she cannot use my daughter as a weapon or abuse her, but sometimes it seems so hopeless for a father to try for such a thing. I have been keeping track of all our conversations, through text, email, and now the talking parents website. When she changed her number I was asking every day to see my daughter, after that I had to use email, which I submitted to the judge, we are on talking parents now which is good as its easier to send to my lawyer. i try to keep a journal but sometimes i am bad about updating it.

I guess there is one thing, what does one do about having their name drug through the mud all the time. my ex unfriended me and all of the friends that spoke up for me and now just blasts me all over social media, I know because a few friends survived the purge and tell me what is being said. I hate that she and her mother can drag my good name through the mud and the court so far hasn't done anything to stop them, then there is what she is probably telling my daughter about me. Even when the lawyer asked her lawyer to have her stop it keeps popping up when my ex thinks i can't see it.

[flourdust]

You can definitely deal with parental alienation through the divorce process and by using the techniques in the books I recommended. You may also get some good advice here for particulars of what your ex is doing. The court can give instructions and punishments, but it can't really control people. For example - in my state, there's boilerplate language in divorce decrees telling parents not to disparage each other in front of the kids, to keep lines of communication open, etc. Enforcement requires documentation, time, and money, though.

As for what your ex is saying to your friends and family -- I'm going to guess that, distressing as this is, it is backfiring on her. If an acquaintance came up to you and said, "My lousy good-for-nothing ex-husband is a cheat and a liar," would you automatically believe that this person is a cheat and a liar? No, you make your own judgments of people, and you know that a bitter ex is hardly an unbiased character witness. Most likely, if your ex is ___ing and moaning in BPD victim mode, most of your friends and family see right through this and are uncomfortable with the oversharing.

[Panda39]

I agree, I was amazed at how similar the stories are too.  Everyone has there own particular brand... .one person's spouse might cheat all the time, or another's spends all of the family's money, or another might have an addiction problem but the dysfunctional behaviors are very consistent.

I'm glad to hear you're documenting everything, that can only help your cause.  In my SO's case early in the separation he was an every other weekend (EOW) dad, and his wife had primary custody.  

His younger daughter at the time had a toothache.  Mom said she'd get her to the dentist, she made an appointment, missed it, made another appointment, cancelled it, decided to change dentists, made another appointment, missed it... .this went on for 3 months.  My SO finally took the bull by the horns and just took her.  :)ocumenting this incident and others was, I'm sure much the reason he was given Medical Decision Making with his kids.  He was also awarded Vision and Education decision making because he was able to document his ex's poor parenting.  Her parenting was both indulgent... .Let's go on a shopping spree! and neglectful the tooth incident is an example.

So keep that documentation going!   Switching to email communication is also good both for documentation and for slow things down and giving you time to think about your response (or if you respond).  I would suggest not responding to anything except if it is legitimately about your daughter.  If it's DinoKnight bashing don't take the bait, just ignore it.  If it's about your daughter and you need to respond keep BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm) in mind... .in other words short and sweet.

In terms of the bad mouthing, you are not alone there either that is a common experience with many here.  Your ex is trying to make it appear that you are worse than her... .she needs to see herself as a victim.  I wish I had a magical solution for this one.  All I can say is take the high road and ignore her.  The people that know and care about you will know that she's being false, some others might not get it at first but will come around, and others will buy the BS and do you really want to be around those people and do their opinions really matter?  

Regarding your daughter below is a link to some information from the co-parenting board (you might want to post over there your concerns around your daughter)... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.msg1331459#msg1331459

It's great that you are supporting a friend going through this, I think there is strength, understanding and validation in numbers.  If you haven't already I hope you'll share this site with him as well.

There is a book you might want to check out if you haven't already... .

Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by Bill Eddy  (Author), Randi Kreger  (Author)

Panda39

[DinoKnight]

Sorry for late response, my computer had a few issues over the weekend and last few days. I actually already have a copy of "Splitting", its a good book so far and as an update the court has ordered we go to mediation to work out the best way to raise my daughter so hopefully something will come out of that. It will actually be the first time she and I will have a face to face discussion since nearly a year ago, at the last therapy session she would go to. I am eager to try to reach some kind of agreement, or at least have a court official see our interactions.

[ForeverDad]

After setting a temp order, if there is none, the courts almost always order mediation next.  However, when acting-out PDs are involved the ex is usually too entitled or feeling too in-control to negotiate reasonably.  So our typical advice is to be careful not to agree to lousy terms and unreasonable demands just to get agreement in mediation.  While there are always trade-offs in settlements, some good and some not so good, it is okay if mediation fails.  A phrase I read here years ago was... .usually a court's order, when we finally get a ruling, is less "unfair" than an ex's demands.

If there is little or no basis to the dispute or if ex does not agree to what you see as reasonable so you can be an involved parent, then don't Gift Away too much in offers, your Niceness won't be reciprocated or remembered later.

[DinoKnight]

Thanks, I will keep that in mind. I will not let her push me around on my issues. I want only what is best for my daughter and at least when i do dig my heals in i do not move.