How did I not know

[Emma21]

Hello,

Feeling so disappoint in myself... .going thru a divorce and wondering for 16 years how I didn't see him for who he is?  How I could be so stupid.  I have moved away from him with the children and its like I can see things that I had never noticed before.  I feel free but yet I never knew I wasn't.  He harasses me by text and phone calls, and calls my boys who are 12 and 9 and has them crying.  Stops paying if I say something he doesn't like or the boys don't answer his calls.  He is completely nuts.  I don't understand why because he pick the women he was having an affair with over us, He asked for the divorce, he agreed with the move.  So thru consuling I have realized he is a narcissist and I never new it.  I realized for years I was keeping the peace not to set him off so now that I am no longer doing that, he has gone completely crazy it seems.  He has threatened to kill me hurt the boys.  He leaves message that he is going to come take the boys back.  Just not sure what to do.  I have to be a resident in the state I am in for a year before I can file for divorce, of course he doesn't want to use Lawyers he thinks he can do it himself I am just going along with him until I can figure out what to do.  I don't really want to involve the Police as I am trying to shield my children from him, but I may have to and I and not sure really if they can help.  Thanks for Listening.

[evanescent]

First of all, do NOT blame yourself for not recognizing his behavior for what it was at first. It has happened to all of us!

Second, it may be time to go non-contact with him. It seems from what you say that there is no positive reason to sustain communications with him. Block his number if you must, but take time to get your own feelings together and protect your children from what sounds like abusive contact. If he can't communicate rationally without abuse, there is no reason to provide him opportunity to do anything else.

[ForeverDad]

Being the target of threats is downright scary.  My ex threatened me more and more as the marriage got more dysfunctional.  By then I had started recording some of her rants and rages.  Not all of them, she had a knack for catching me off guard when going ballistic.  But I knew that if I reported her threats she would be believed over me because I was a man and she was the poor defenseless woman.  She had even threatened to make allegations.  So I had no choice but to record as (1) documentation and (2) insurance against being carted off to jail.

Boundaries are important.  Confirm with your lawyer which of his behaviors rise to the level of being 'actionable'.  As I wrote above, it's good to have documentation of his excesses, he will likely deny anything you report.

Probably he's expecting you to keep suffering from the "deer in the headlights" behavior, frozen and unable to defend yourself emotionally or legally.  His ramping up the conflict may also be "extinction bursts" where he's causing so much trouble that you feel pressured to retreat back into appeasement or other prior ineffective behaviors.

[Emma21]

Thank you, I just feel like I am going crazy. I need to try and find some legal advice but not having much luck as law states I have to be a resident of the state for a year before I can  file for divorce, or 6 months to make a parenting plan.  Since he is not giving me any money or very little I am doing everything only own.  Thanks again for the advice, I sure need all I can get.

[hope2727]

 Contact a local domestic violence shelter for advice. They will have legal resources to advise you. Keep records of absolutely everything. Start 2 journals. Buy hard cover black journals that you can't tear the pages out of with out living evidence. I used the black hard covered accounting type from Staples. Then using blue of black pen enter only factual information and dates in one. Write your emotions in another one. THE factual one should have entries that read Date factual info and initial. DO NOT write opinions or feelings. For instance November 3/17 Bob called at 10:03 PM stated that he is going to kill me and take the boys. initial Nov. 10th/17 attended parent teacher conference. Spoke to 'teachers name' who states 'Johnny is doing well on math class' initial. It tracks your communication and your whereabouts. It also tracks communication with other people. 

Keep a binder with copies of every bill of every kind printed. Phone bills, power bills, parking receipt everything. A massive organized paper trail will save you in the end. It doesn't cost much and will be everything your lawyer needs when it comes time to prove his actions, disprove his accusations, prove your competence, prove your expenses.  If you have small receipts like parking fees tape both edges to a looseleaf sheet with clear tape and sign and date across the tape.  Get dividers to organize bills, school costs, food, gas and car and bus etc, you really need to start immediately and build a stack of paper so organized that when he finally has his lawyer (and he will eventually get one) sit down across from yours you will be so ready that he won't be able do anything.

This was the best legal advice I ever received and saved my hide twice.

You have kids so co contact (NC) is not really an option but low contact is. LC is being minimal in all responses and not reaching out except if absolutely necessary. So he rages and you say ... ."oh". Be flat emotionless and boring. He will escalate for awhile (google extinction burst to understand that one) then he will get bored because you don't react the way he expects and slowly get less engaged. When he texts give it a couple hours to respond and then only address facts. If he calls let it go to voice mail and then respond later. If he shows up be boring and emotionless. I would absolutely record everything you can word for word from voice mails in my journal and I would save all voice mails he sends. Contact you service provider of ra plan that lets you store them indefinitely. I would also contact local police and make them aware of the situation. When I did they were very supportive and told me they would rather have a heads up just in case there was every a problem.

Ok the other thing is made take the MOSAIC test. Link below. www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Resources/MOSAIC.html

I took it regularly to reassess where I was in terms of safety. I would have never believed the person I loved could physically harm me until he did. There are stories in here of that nature and on the news every day. You are not going to be one because you are smart and caring and getting educated. You are going to have to be stronger than you ever know you could but you are going to get through this.

Several of my classmates work at a domestic violence shelter and they always tell people contact them, even by phone, they have lots of info and resources. If o you don't get what you need from the first one try another. You can do this. Oh and the journal and record keeping advice is from the most capable divorce lawyer i know. As a side note she also appears to suffer with BPD so she has insight into that thought process. There is a good book reference on here about high conflict divorce. I forget the name but look in the book review section. Ok I am rambling because I don't want to go finish my term paper. Good luck and keep posting. You are not alone.

[evanescent]

hope2727 is probably right about the NC thing. With joint children, that could invite legal trouble you don't want to add to this.

But absolutely document! I never allowed my BPDw to rage at me on the phone. She usually hung up on me first in short order, but I always forced text communication for subsequent discussions until she offered some concession/apology for the intensity of her behavior. Not only is it evidence, but it also forces a little more time into the discussion, allowing everybody to reflect on both what was said and how to reply.

[livednlearned]

Feeling so disappoint in myself... .going thru a divorce and wondering for 16 years how I didn't see him for who he is?  How I could be so stupid

Be gentle with yourself! Someone has to be kind to you, might as well be you 

My T told me narcissistic types can be genius empaths who read our emotions sometimes better than we read our own. You'll learn in time how to change the script, but for now try to find kinder ways to talk to yourself. "It took bravery and courage to move the kids somewhere safe, and we now have an opportunity to heal and learn emotional resilience thanks to me."

Try to catch yourself and look for what you're doing well. This will build much-needed emotional strength for the work ahead.

About the threats. Take note of what he says, and what he does, because they may be consistently different. He may be like a lot of BPD fathers (including those with a lot of narcissism) who talk a good game and do little to follow through. The fact he wants to avoid lawyers might be a good sign because it means he overstates his abilities.

If money is tight, might you be able to do a consultation with an attorney in your area? You don't need to retain them, just pay for 30 or 60 min to ask them what you need to do so that when it's time to do something, you have all your ducks in a row.

And like hope2727 recommends, check with your DV shelter -- their whole reason for existing is to assist people in your situation.

One version of documentation that can streamline things is to create a Google calendar and log incidents -- you can even pin emails to actual dates. Then, when you need everything, you can print it in agenda form and everything displays in chronological order. I logged everything I could think of and was grateful for it, if for no other reason than it helped jog my memory when I needed it jogged. These are high stress times and your memory will get worked over 

If you are living in a one-party consent state, you can record his calls. If you have an iPhone, there is an app called PhoneView that's very helpful for documenting calls and voicemails. I imagine that other smart phones have something similar.

Are your kids in counseling?

Don't beat yourself up about going along with him for now -- you don't have to commit to anything and right now your instincts are telling you to keep the peace while you figure out a plan. That's wise, and helpful.

We're here to walk with you.

You're not alone 

LnL

[Emma21]

Thank you so much for all your advice and kind words.  I really needed them today. 

[toomanydogs]

Hi Emma,
  I agree with Hope. Contact a DV shelter. I don't know what state you're in, but some states (TX and CA, as I recall) have laws regarding threats that your H is making. My H emailed me: ":)ie you f***ing c**t," and I reported it to the police. In my state, in order for the police to take action, my H would have had to write, "I'm coming over right now to strangle you." Or shoot me or stab me, or whatever, and what he had written was not actionable criminally. However, in some states it is, and you might look into reporting it.
  The reason I reported was that I wanted documentation. My H is currently not living with me and filed for divorce the end of August. I was terrified when I received those emails. I kept thinking he was going to send someone back to the house (or come himself) to hurt or kill me. Now when I think about it, I border on rage. How dare he think that he could threaten me like that.
  That said, my reaction is mine and may not be beneficial in your situation. There is an incredibly good book you might take a look at: The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. I found it really helpful in my learning to trust my response to situations.
Welcome. 
TMD

[Emma21]

Great advise... .I guess my problem with going to the police, I feel its a whole can of worms I am opening up that my boys have to deal with. When they are dealing with so much right now.  Although I don't really know what it initials going to the police.  Guess I am trying to shield my kids as much as possible from the truth of there father.  My boys are 12 & 9.  I am just realizing I have been doing it there whole lives.  Keeping the peace for them.  I have so much going on right now but yet I feel relaxed my anxiety is down, I had no idea it was him.

[ForeverDad]

While state law may delay how soon you can file, there is nothing at all restricting you from getting local legal advice in consultations with family law attorneys or contacting local DV resources.  There may be ways to get a case started sooner on basis of non-support.

I recall that when my then-spouse and I were separated, she filed for child support without seeking a divorce.  Too bad for her my divorce filing crossed her paperwork in the mail and her petition was merged into the divorce I filed.

[livednlearned]

toomanydogs recommended Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker -- there is a chapter in there on protective orders that was super useful. The position you're in, where you're terrified but have a feeling that taking legal action might escalate the danger is something he talks about. de Becker grew up with extreme domestic violence in his home, and went on to do a lot of work for victims of DV.

It was reading his book that made me decide to not file a restraining order. You will be able to read through the different scenarios and decide for yourself if it makes sense.

It's also possible to open a case with law enforcement, but not do anything, at least where I live.

Are you planning to file in 6 months so you can get the parenting plan in place?

[Emma21]

Yes I plan on filing in 6 months, I have called and talked to lawyers and seems there is not much I can do until I hit the 6 month mark or 1 mark. Trying to push him off about a month and a half away from 6 mths, its not easy. The longer I keep stalling the more threats he makes.  Yes I do believe things will blow up even more once he finds out I am getting a lawyer. 

[hope2727]

I'd honestly still go to the police and open a file. The kids will likely never know. Neither will your husband but at least you can get ahead of him and put some safety plans in place.

Also start getting copies of all important documents and put them some place safe. Things like birth, baptism, and marriage certificates. Health care cards, insurance documents, titles for property and vehicles.  returns past and present, contracts, loan documents, credit card documents, everything and anything. Be ahead of him and ahead of the courts. You want to walk into this so organized and with so much paperwork prepared that his lawyer is like Wow and tells him to back down because they know you are prepared for anything they can throw at you. Pay stubs (yours and his) tax returns get  every piece of paper work you can lay your hands on and make 2 copies. Keep a binder at home with a copy of everything, a binder off site and the originals in a safety deposit box. You will be super happy that you start your paper trail well in advance. You have time to get your ducks in a row and this will save you both figuratively and financially.

I am thinking of you. Keep posting. You'll get through this.