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Author Topic: Even though they can't say sorry do they know inside their wrong.  (Read 401 times)
Newyoungfather
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« on: October 15, 2017, 07:37:05 PM »

Hello Everyone,
Here's a question I've been thinking about.  During the custody trial for my son the mother of my child could not admit she had done anything wrong during the relationship, even though we had countless emails and text messages to prove otherwise.  So here is my question, does the BPD know what they did was wrong but can't openly admit it.  When I bring up past issues does she know what she did.  For instance, I brought up the fact that she told me that she was molested by one of her parents growing up, she now clearly says she has the best relationship with her parents when 5 months ago she wanted to run away.  How does she feel that I know her secrets and have proof of what she has done.
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Turkish
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12127


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2017, 10:48:03 PM »

One of the core emotions of a pwBPD is shame.  "I'm a bad person who doesn't deserve love." I know my ex's shame better than her best friends or even her family.  She revealed that she was molested by her mother's father.  Her FOO dynamic is to cover up abuse. Though that guy is dead,  they'd never believe her if she told them. 

Even though I know this,  I'll never out her.  I think she still trusts me,  and this helps is co-parent, even if she does drive me nuts from time to time. 

I've heard all sorts of things about her parents.  Violent and cheating father. What sounds like emotional incest by her mother,  yet they are still her family. Look out what's best for your kids. 
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
livednlearned
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 01:05:56 PM »

does the BPD know what they did was wrong but can't openly admit it

I have read that in heightened mood states, people with BPD do not necessarily have access to the kinds of cognitive processes that they might when in a less aroused state.

If you think about it, we aren't great at problem solving when we're terrified, either.   

However, we tend to have less intense and volatile mood states. And what triggers us may be more or less based on fact, instead of emotion.

People with BPD may be in fight or flight states over things that seem relatively innocuous to us, doing anything and everything to protect threats to themselves.

Their sense of self tends to be extremely fragile and not entirely whole, so it takes less to create these feelings of fear than it might with someone who has an intact sense of self.

In other words, it becomes more important to her survival to defend herself in that moment than it does to corroborate something she did or said 10 days earlier.

People with BPD are individuals, so there is a range of behaviors to take into account. My N/BPDx was seemingly incapable of being culpable. It was like he had to win. Whereas my SO's BPDxw is capable of taking responsibility.

I try to imagine a time when I felt intense shame, and then magnify that by a thousand. Then assume my ex felt that way most of the time.

It's sad.
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Breathe.
StayStrongNow
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2017, 09:29:37 PM »

My answer is no, Borderlines believe their own lies. Once they believe in their own lies they are on their own path of no return.

Starting with the 1st of 4 arrests my uxBPDw would say I threw her in jail. The 1st arrest was domestic battery, after seeing the open wound she gave me with the way too expensive ring I gave her for an engagement ring, two police officers had to carry her on their shoulders to the squad car because she was so combative. I have always been doomed being with this pwBPD, I received 10 years of idealization before she started the devaluation stage.

Anyway, in her mind everything was always all my fault.
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NorthernGirl
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Relationship status: married
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2017, 10:51:04 PM »

I watched my DH's ex (UBPD) under oath in court for hours as she stated her case, and then over and over DH's lawyer pointed out how uBPD's own evidence didn't back up her claims. She seemed confused when the lawyer pointed this out.

For example, her written submission said that DH had refused to respond to her emails on one topic. The email string on the topic was in the appendix and it included DH's response. The lawyer had her look at her statement and then her own evidence. She flipped back and forth between them, and finally said she wasn't sure why she hadn't noticed his response. The lawyer then moved on to a similar statement and similar conflicting evidence. Again, she flipped back and forth, and when the lawyer asked her to respond to the evidence, she just shrugged. The judge asked her to respond to why she had repeatedly put things that were untrue in her submission. She mumbled something none of us could hear. The judge told her to speak up and she finally said something about how stressful it was with all the emails in the submission. These were all hers! The judge just shook her head.

From watching UBPD I have no doubt she had decided on the truth, and even her own evidence wasn't going to sway her. When pushed, she stood by her statement that DH rarely responded to her emails even though she had no evidence to prove it. In fact, her evidence showed the opposite.

When the judge ruled against her in the end, uBPD said the judge was bad and DH lied. Then she fired her lawyers. No recognition of her role at all.

She clearly did not believe she had lied.
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Turkish
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12127


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2017, 11:41:47 PM »

NG (glad to see you back  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Your story reminds me of what Christine Ann Lawson said about pwBPD in Understanding The Borderline Mother, "lying feels like survival."
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
soundofmusicgirl
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2017, 01:20:46 AM »

As everyone pointed out there are many nuances to BPDs. The main part of the illness is a fragile sense of self (or no sense of self) and very dysregulated emotions. They also tend to think in black and white. It "protects" their fragile sense  of self.
My DH says that while he was married to BPDxw she said on several occasions: I know that everyone does things different than me. But my way is the only right way.

That pretty much sums up how they think.
It is also very difficult for BPDs to feel empathy as it means you have to allow to feel what others are feeling. It is too threatning to the fragile sense of self. I think in some books they also share that some borderlines feel empty inside.

They have to believe their story. It is their way of justifying their existence. (that is my believe at least)... my DH believes that deep down they must know they are lying, but they could never admit it.
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