I can't stand the waiting in silence

[Depression = 72% of members]

Yesterday I was optimistic. My Gf even gave me a kiss when she came home, that's rare. She was in a good mood too. The kids were almost behaving.

Then she started answering some questions online, while I played with the kids. I got nervous about 3 people asking me 3 different things at the same time. She was answering those questions out loud, and laughing. Then one of the questions was "are you controlling?" And she redirected the question to me.

I should have said just NO. But I told her "you are not but you could come across as controlling from the outside" (something like that). She asked for explanation. And I told her "Well, I was downloading something for the kid on the phone, but everytime I use the phone in front of you, you tell me I'm cheating on you, so I tend to not use the phone, so that could be seen as you controlling the use of my phone... .". She also had told me minutes ago that I used one nice sweater that day because I sure must be meeting some other woman. She needs to know exactly the time I'm arriving home... .There are plenty of things that could be seen as controlling. I tend to try to know where they come from, and not think of her as controlling.

I'm sure you know she didn't take it well. She 1st just told me that I have no sense of humor, and that I used to have it. Then she kept answering questions and her mood was going down, so the last questions she answered crying. I told her "This is making you very sad... ." And she told me "Shut up and just leave me alone". Then, after dinner and a lot of silence, she told me good night like 3 hours before when we usually go to bed, and she went by herself to read.

This morning, no communication. I don't know the cake she is baking inside her for me, so to speak. I know in part she is silent to spare me her anger, but I get very anxious when she doesn't talk to me. It is going to explode some time, it can be big, or it can be mild. It doesn't just go away. She will end either very angry or very depressed.

What would you do? Just give her time? Say something?

I get all kinds of judgements and bad thoughts in my head. And I end up seeing us doomed and with no future, when I was so happy just 24h before. I think that she is judging me and critizicing me all the time, the smallest thing, and she is saying she is the worst... .But if I say something to her, all hell breaks lose. If I say anything negative, then "you've been harvoring resentment towards me, we should split up, no one is holding you at gun point, you don't have to put up with me... .". I think: I'm getting nuts figuring out ways for her to like me, and she keeps pointing out things she doesn't like about me, and she doesn't even want me to like her.

I finally always thik that I can't communicate any of that in any way, if I want us to be at peace. And then what is this? Then she says I don't talk, and that I'm scared of her. I AM scared, I don't want to hurt her, or upset her, and I know 90% of the things I can say will potentially hurt her feelings. So, my fear and my silence are based on experience.

I hate this waiting. I usually don't write in this moments, although I'm dying to do so. Thanks for listening.

[JoeBPD81]

Yesterday I was optimistic. My Gf even gave me a kiss when she came home, that's rare. She was in a good mood too. The kids were almost behaving.

Then she started answering some questions online, while I played with the kids. I got nervous about 3 people asking me 3 different things at the same time. She was answering those questions out loud, and laughing. Then one of the questions was "are you controlling?" And she redirected the question to me.

I should have said just NO. But I told her "you are not but you could come across as controlling from the outside" (something like that). She asked for explanation. And I told her "Well, I was downloading something for the kid on the phone, but everytime I use the phone in front of you, you tell me I'm cheating on you, so I tend to not use the phone, so that could be seen as you controlling the use of my phone... .". She also had told me minutes ago that I used one nice sweater that day because I sure must be meeting some other woman. She needs to know exactly the time I'm arriving home... .There are plenty of things that could be seen as controlling. I tend to try to know where they come from, and not think of her as controlling.

I'm sure you know she didn't take it well. She 1st just told me that I have no sense of humor, and that I used to have it. Then she kept answering questions and her mood was going down, so the last questions she answered crying. I told her "This is making you very sad... ." And she told me "Shut up and just leave me alone". Then, after dinner and a lot of silence, she told me good night like 3 hours before when we usually go to bed, and she went by herself to read.

This morning, no communication. I don't know the cake she is baking inside her for me, so to speak. I know in part she is silent to spare me her anger, but I get very anxious when she doesn't talk to me. It is going to explode some time, it can be big, or it can be mild. It doesn't just go away. She will end either very angry or very depressed.

What would you do? Just give her time? Say something?

I get all kinds of judgements and bad thoughts in my head. And I end up seeing us doomed and with no future, when I was so happy just 24h before. I think that she is judging me and critizicing me all the time, the smallest thing, and she is saying she is the worst... .But if I say something to her, all hell breaks lose. If I say anything negative, then "you've been harvoring resentment towards me, we should split up, no one is holding you at gun point, you don't have to put up with me... .". I think: I'm getting nuts figuring out ways for her to like me, and she keeps pointing out things she doesn't like about me, and she doesn't even want me to like her.

I finally always thik that I can't communicate any of that in any way, if I want us to be at peace. And then what is this? Then she says I don't talk, and that I'm scared of her. I AM scared, I don't want to hurt her, or upset her, and I know 90% of the things I can say will potentially hurt her feelings. So, my fear and my silence are based on experience.

I hate this waiting. I usually don't write in this moments, although I'm dying to do so. Thanks for listening.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[RolandOfEld]

Hi JoeBPD81. I very well understand the fear of waiting. And I can completely emphasize with the feeling of happiness turning to hell in a matter of minutes. If she's silent, it doesn't mean it will go away. I think in relationships with a non-BPD person it would usually be best to talk things out as soon as possible. But we know our BPD loved ones can't have a fruitful conversation when they are triggered, so maybe better not to engage during this time? There's probably no way to convince her of why you're silent right now.

These days I'm trying to wait for little "safe harbors" when I know she's in a normal mood and communication reopens, if only for a little while, and listen to her and say the things I need to say.

I understand how scary these silent periods can be and I hope it comes to a good resolution for you ASAP. Hang in there. 

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks a lot.

If I could just talk with a friend, or a family member, I know I'd defuse my own anguish, but nobody knows. And she is usually very chatty by text while I'm at work, so I'm used to her presence. So her silence is screaming in my ear.

Should I appologize for what I said? Was that bad? I sometimes talk to her without emotion, as if we were two students analizing her illness. And that is wrong, it works for me, but I see it hurts her when I do.

[pearlsw]

Hi JoeBPD81,

I've been thinking this over a bit. I deal with similar issues. My partner is jealous so this is new for me relationship-wise. I am not a jealous person so it makes for a tough match between us. I have used mild humor about jealousy over the years as one response. I have done so at times to shine a light on what is (for me) an absurd feeling. He actually has some fun with it along with me at times. (I am sure this won't work for most though!) For me, if I saw someone hit on (show attraction to) my partner I can channel that into a turn on if I want and get a laugh/little thrill out of it. I have no fear of a partner leaving me for another person. If they do so be it. It is logical and not emotional for me.

But for him it is a real feeling and something I get attacked/insulted with when he needs a handy weapon. (He'll bring up old incidents and twist them and throw them at me. I let it roll off because it is just drama to me and I don't have to agree to things just because he says them).

I don't bother to get into discussions over the topic with him anymore - we would never agree. I just try to validate that it must be hard to have such feelings, but since I don't share them and can't relate I'm done having that tired/dull conversation about his feelings vs. mine.

I was rereading this link from the Relationship Skills and Tools Workshop: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=78324.0;all

I would like to find a way to remove this issue as an element of control over me, but like you I have (an unfortunate) past set of circumstances that make it impossible to entirely avoid.

I am sorry you are feeling such anguish!

Let's go back to the original discussion though and look at her feelings. What she heard from you (intentional or not) was criticism. And it caught her off guard in a happy moment. The response to criticism for most people is to defend themselves. She also might not want to be seen as controlling. Now the criticism is towards you - "you aren't fun anymore" - basically you are a disappointment to her. And now you are globalizing your thoughts "we are doomed/there is no future". So, lots of distorted thinking and feelings going on.

I have no idea if I am following the right blueprint, but I might just say: "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to spark a discussion of the relationship at that time. You were in playful mood and for me a serious issue came to mind. You seemed to have felt hurt and defensive. I am sorry I made you feel bad. Can we try to have some fun? I like to have fun with you too!"  If you give her basically what she wanted, a good time with you, some fun... .maybe she can see that all problems don't have to be so serious and can be handled in positive ways. This doesn't mean that a discussion about these other issues won't come at some point, but I'd try to get back into an emotionally safe space with her first before trying! Good luck, man!  

[Tattered Heart]

I don't have a lot of experience dealing with ST. What would happen if you approached her first, using lots of SET? Really lay on the validation about her being important to you. If you meant the words you said, I wouldn't apologize for that, but you can empathize with how she feels about what you said.

Which part do you think she is most mad about? You being honest with her? Telling her she can be controlling? or that you brought up jealousy?

In the future, if she asks you one of those trick questions, you might try to deflect it back to her.
Her: Do you think I'm controlling?
You: I don't know. Do you think you are?

[pearlsw]

Hi TH, Thanks for the consult on this one. I was reading over all the skills and not sure which one to use. I think SET could be a worthwhile approach a well! Thanks for the tips!

[isilme]

Should I appologize for what I said? Was that bad? I sometimes talk to her without emotion, as if we were two students analizing her illness. And that is wrong, it works for me, but I see it hurts her when I do.

In my case - no.  Once we've reached the Silent Treatment phase, it's best just to give him his space.  Silent Treatment serves a few functions for my H:

It can be a way to punish me - sure he removed his presence from me, am I devastated yet?  Yes, ST makes you want to rush in and make things all better, you feel you just need the "right" words, the best thing to say, but really, all that does is fuel the fire.  Often, I feel a mild relief when we hit ST - it means he's coming off the actual rage and needs time for it to metabolize, like alcohol, out of his system.  Am I really upset at not being actively yelled at?  No. 

ST also gives him space to process things and calm down.  He just can't process things well, and him going into ST is a bit like us taking a break - it can confuse and hurt us, and I know what's happening in H's head is not always the healthiest, but he is taking the step he knows to back away from conflict.  Yes, there are still components of silent rage going on in there.  But it's an attempt, and I have to respect that. 

SET is good, but I'd give it some time and test the waters with noncommittal stuff, first.  When H has gone from rage to ST, there is the awkward period where I wait to see if he's ready to actually engage or if he's still cranky.  I treat him the same, without pushing myself onto him.  I say hello, good morning, good night, etc.  I send him a few silly cat photos during the day if at work.  I talk about non-triggering things - movies, dinner, nothing emotionally charged.  If he responds, he's moving out of ST, and we can eventually talk about what caused the rage.  If he's still upset, he will blatantly ignore me, tell me to leave him alone, or be curt.  I back off, and wait longer before trying to engage in anything "real".

I think with the push-pull, and the fears of abandonment, the more consistent and more steady WE can be, even in light of their outbursts and unregulated emotions, they can slowly see we really aren't lying, we don't intend to abandon them, we aren't going to play the volatility game.  They seem to want to mirror us at times, so I try to give as a good mirror to reflect as I can.

I'd give her a break, and then act like nothing happened.  Later (hours, days, weeks) I'd mention it, using SET or DEARMAN, whichever works best. 

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks everyone for keeping me sane, sort of. 

I hope I can write tomorrow. We had that moment I feared, and it looked like goodbye, I don't know how I found  the words to make her listen that I love her. But after a very pesimistic monologue by her, things started to get better, and we had a nice evening, and today a great day, she came to sleep the last hour in my bed and we had a sweet wake up together.

We've been sharing hugs and kissing and taking our hands along the day, and it looks like it never happened. I know I can say anything to this person and almost nothing to "the other person".

Anyway, thanks and hope we all start a good week.

[JoeBPD81]

Hi guys,

sometimes a shiver goes trough my spine, because often she says "from now on, I'm gonna fake, I'm gonna put on a mask and try to be polite with you, until we go". And when thins are good, I can't help but wonder "Is she faking it to keep the peace?" It seems genuine, but it is scary.

It seems like the same way suicide ideation and talk helps lower the anxiety, just talking, just contemplatin the posibility that the pain can end, it helps them, and they help themselves exit that state of unbearable despair. The same way, telling me that we are over, that we can't be together anymore, she gets it out of her chest and she can relax enough to think clearly and remember she loves me.

The incident about the question hurt her in two ways. 1st criticism, of course. She remembers how her family labeled her with "manipulative", "impossible to live with" etc. 2nd, if I say something negative, she figures that I must have a thousand things I don't tell her. That I must hate living with her, but I'm too shy, too scared or too polite to say so. As if I was faking 99% of the time. Once she thinks that, it is a fact for her. That "truth" to her, it doesn't make any sense with anything I do, so she has the feeling that she doesn't know me at all. And she gets paranoid and very untrusting. Then she feels really bad. So as result, she takes a look at our moment in the relationship, and sees that we both are suffering. And she takes the blame for all. She gets the idea that we have to split, because she would be better alone, and I would be better with any woman that can appreciate my "virtues". To reinforce that judgement, she rescues from memory everything wrong about us, and brings it to the present. Once the snowball of negativity starts to form, feelings are crap, DBT is crap, people are crap, and she was meant to die or to live alone with some cats. You would think it's a parody of negative self esteem, or depression, if there was anything funny about that.

She told me that she feels very alone with me. Mostly because "I don't talk". As I've seen it happens to many of you, she takes something real to criticize, and blows it out of proportion. I am a guy of few words. I don't think out loud, I think, and then I tell you the conclussion. When we are not together we text a lot. Because then, I see the windows to say something. When we are together, she talks as if she was writing a diary, I don't interrupt, so often I don't have an oppening to say something. Often there is nothing to say, because it's not a dialogue, I validate and such. But I feel that she is telling me something about her life, my role is to listen. I can't listen to a story of deep pain, and tell her about my day in the office where nothing happened.

The more I think about what I should be saying, the less comes to my mind. It's like a test where you go blank. I thik "You don't talk, she's hating it, she's gonna leave you because you don't talk". Most people love that I don't talk and I listen. Most people don't even realize, they just talk about themselves and feel things are going well. I can write and write, but when it comes to talking... .Nothing. I don't know if my brain goes in a different speed.

When we are together, we also have the difficulty of the kids. They are interrupting all the time, or climbing on me while we are talking, or doing some mischief, or they have the TV on... .Or all of the above at the same time. She doesn't lose the train of thought, she starts a sentence, fixes 5 things with the kids, and then keeps talking the end the sentence she started 15 minutes ago. I can't do that. When there are too many stimuli, I shut down, I watch, I listen, but I don't talk.

I don't wanna be blocked, but I don't want to change the way I am, and start talking when I don't feel I have something to say. I don't know if this has a solution.

I used to talk more, within my "style" of little talk. But then I started leaving out the topics that were triggers. The fun remarks or puns that I though she knew were jokes and months later I find out they hurt her a lot, because she believed they were true. Appart from triggers, I gradually stopped talking about things she understood the wrong way completelly (I say A, she understands B, and she is hurt by B, when A wouldn't hurt her). When we met, I had a whole life that she didn't know about, many stories to share, now I work and I am with them, so I have little to none things to tell her that she doesn't know. I can tell her about the NFL or some TV-Show or movie I watched without her... .But that hardly seems relevant when she has just related me an episode or abuse on her childhood, or how she's been feeling suicidal for the last week.


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On an unrelated issue. Her sister visited, and they both think she also has BPD. She's very different and she's been unhealthy for our family, but now my gf can't stand the thought that her sister is suffering like her, and that's gonna be a change in our lives. She needs to take care of her. We'll see. I see one advantage, and that is that my gf can understand a bit more about what it is like to love a pwBPD.