our custody battle

[Ilovemylife]

Hi sorry it's been a while since i posted but i need some advice.
about a month ago we went to pre trial court and in order to avoid going to trial with my borderline exwife i gave her my life savings. she agreed o 5050 after a year and a half of battling me mostly because i gave her the money.
but the 5050 wont start for another year and a half. i have 4 children.
1 in 2nd grade one in kinder and twins are in prek.
she states that the young twins need a mom and even though i know she is not a good mother i decided to settle and said ok once the twins go to 1st grade 5050.
so the schedule now is
i get them every other fri/sat/sunday
i get them every wendsday
i get them every other thursday
so this one thursday has cost me over 50 k in lawyer fees.
i said to myself enough fighting with this woman the kids will be fine and ill get them in a couple of years 50/50 anyway.
so after giving her all my money 500k from the sale of our house she decided to settle.

that was 4 weeks ago
i still have to pay her child support and alimony of 12k for 3 more years then just child support.
i'm a physician and as you can imagine managing my work and managing my kids can be a task.
im a great dad and cook and clean and pick them up and drop them off and take them to karate and gymnastics and you name it i do it.
they are my life and they know it.
they also at this young age know that mom is a little "weird"

the settlement was 4 weeks ago about.

now she calls me and says she wants to give me the thursdays.
I was mad because after all this all she wanted was the money and now she wants to give me the kids.
but this is what i wanted anyway
the problem is once we settles i changed my schedule to accommodate seeing patients on that thursday so i can maintain making the same money.
i know i work too much but i have 4 kids and need to make a life for them because i know she wont.

i told her i'll take the kids once this school year is finished which will give me enough time to make a schedule change.
my practice has suffered a lot during this year and a half

now she is ofcourse calling me names and saying i don't want the kids.
it's funny because it's the exact opposite
she fought for the kids, and has made life and work hard
but she does't see it like that.

my question is should i just change schedule again and take the kids on every other thursday?
i know its a dumb question but you see i've made so many changes to my practice over the year that patients are complaining.
i've booked that thursday now for 4 months.

i'm so tired of all of her changes and bending over backward to please her.
now that its settles i want to just move one with the order.

i guess i want to also teach her a lesson which i'm sure she doesnt understand.

i'm sure she wants her freedom and wants to spend the money having fun and she doesn't wan the kids as much.
she doesnt work and just freeloading off of me.


could really use some opinions.

 

[flourdust]

Hi, ILML (mind if I abbreviate it like that)?

If I understand you correctly, you have a written divorce agreement (approved by the courts) that gives you 60/40 custody now with a switch to 50/50 custody (one extra overnight) in a few years.

She's now offering to make the deal 50/50 now. You countered with making it 50/50 in the spring.

Assuming that this is a legally binding parenting plan, you're in a position of strength here. You don't need to do anything to get the 50/50 schedule you want in a few years. You have offered to move that up to next year. You don't need to give in her to demands to make the change now. And it's a bad precedent to change the decree based on her whims.

[david]

I would take the 50/50 as soon as it was doable from your side. You have commitments already based on what was agreed to so go with that. I am sure your kids would understand if they asked you. You don't really need to explain anything to your ex but you could simply say your schedule does not permit you at this time and when your schedule will allow you. I don't give details when I reply to my ex.
"now she is saying I don't want the kids... ." My ex used to try to guilt me like that in the beginning. I learned to ignore it. As an added bonus, when I stopped taking the bait she stopped attacking me as much. She rarely does it now. I think it was a control thing for her.
Something you might want to think about. I get our boys every Monday and Thursday during the school year. Monday helps get them focused for the week and Thursday helps them finish what needs to be done that week. It helped a lot in elementary school.

[Ilovemylife]

yes flouerdust.
that exactly it.
so my therapist usually tells me to give in to her for little things.
there is no lesson that she will ever learn
there is no winning for me here.
that what my therapist says.
but she also says to fight for the big changes. I feel like these kind of things will upset her and she will take it out on me and the kids.
already my 8 year old says mommy slaps me.
i've never hit the kids and i know she does it out of frustration.
i guess i'm trying to get my life in order after 1.5 years of courts and fighting and her switching days and m saying yes and changing my office and work around.
and no that i thought it was finished, here she is with her crazy antics making changes.
i'm waiting for her reply.

here is another question
my ex lives with her mother . her mother is very controlling. her mother keeps telling my 8 year old strange things. like your dad left your mom. and god will judge him. and don't ever leave your moms side.
crap like that.
the other day i went to the front of the house to drop off their Halloween costumes (because she was too cheap to buy them)  all of them were in the front lawn playing.
the 3 little ones (6 year old boy and my 4 year old twins ) ran to me and said daddy daddy. i hugged them but my 8 year old kept looking at her grandma and looking at me.
like she didn't want to disappoint her grandma by hugging me.

i want to talk to her about this but don't want to be as crazy as they are.

would appreciate the advise.

i bought a book on diverse for her written actually by 8 year olds and we read it at nights.



 

[ForeverDad]

Are the children in counseling — and with counselors that weren't picked or manipulated by mother?  They're not too young.  Courts absolutely love counseling.  If she opposes then you may have to return to court to get that started.

My ex, trying to find negative advocates, started my son in counseling before he was 4 years old.  Bad move on her part, eventually the therapist and agency figured her out.   The problem was that the temp order was solidly in her favor, assigning her temp custody, and she drug out the divorce for nearly two years and court was not inclined at all to change the temp order.  Eventually we got past that.  When I moved up to equal time I also became more involved in his counseling.  It wasn't long before she stopped taking him.

My take on this... .for any changes in your favor, either more time on selected days or a faster ramp-up to the eventual equal time schedule, then you need to have that Locked In tight.  Otherwise you know she'd sooner or later renege and want some other change not in your favor.  To do that you should tell her that you two can sign an agreement to modify the prior details of schedule changes over time and file it in court.  Doesn't matter that she signs something, the way to lock it in is to have it filed in court and ordered as a legal change.  If you two can make such an agreement then it ought to be relatively inexpensive and protect you from her future moods to take back what she offered.

She wants you to take more time.  You want more time but your work schedule can't keep changing whenever the mood strike her.  So determine when you can make the next change to your schedule (or find care for the children until you get home, hint, hint) and propose an agreement that is simple and doesn't allow her any loopholes.  Make sure the agreement allows you to use daycare or your reasonable choice of child sitters.  Sometimes that is called Right of First Refusal, but often its terms go both ways and what limits her may limit you too.  (Mine unreasonably demanded that the sitter must be registered with whatever state agency, that caused brief problems.)  Brainstorm with your lawyer so any agreement is legal and can't be contested later.

[livednlearned]

Hi Ilovemylife,

When it comes to having the kids, do whatever you can to make that happen. The more time with you, the more emotional safety for them. If your wife wants you to take them Thursday, embrace that gift.

Your patients may not be happy about the schedule change, and I understand the financial strain of an expensive custody battle (mine was costly, too) only to be given almost freely what you wanted from the start. But these years are going to go by quickly and they have a severely disordered, abusive mother. The problems only get harder if we don't nip them in the bud when they're young.

Grandma sounds like she may have some BPD traits

Your life is busy and you have a lot of responsibilities, and I know it's tough. If you can, find time to read about parental alienation. Dr. Craig Childress is excellent (he has a book as well as work online), and Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison.

The heart of all this is to learn validation of how your kids feel. What you saw in your 8 year old is only the start, but with skills, you can provide the antidote.

":)id you feel uncomfortable saying hi to me when I came to see you? It's ok, I love you. I noticed you seemed worried, your body language was x and your facial expression was y. Everything ok?"

This is not the kind of question your ex will ever ask.

If your child is comfortable sharing, you will hear how she or he feels -- try to validate the emotions instead of defending yourself, if you can. "That must feel sad -- I would feel sad -- if my grandma told me my dad didn't love me (or whatever falsehood she is saying). Do you feel sad when she says that?"

Your child has intelligent emotions, but most BPD sufferers will cut away at that intelligence until kids doubt their own feelings. Then it gets easier to plant false thoughts in their mind, turning them against the parent who loves them.

Validation and some other skills mentioned by Childress and Warshak can be just as important as the custody stuff, in my experience.

LnL

[Ilovemylife]

i appreciate all the advice.
I actually got divorce poison and read it couple of months ago.
than along wit "i love you don't leave me " and may others.
I fell more at ease with the kids now that a 1.5 years has passed and she has not been able to turn them. but im always concerned about my oldest.
she feels conflicted.
from this website and all you wonderful people i've learned to validate her emotions.
but it's hard not to protect myself.
I guess it's a learning process.
I wanted to talk to my daughter alone on wednesday. I was going to talk to her about unconditional love. maybe look it up on google, ask her if she knows what it means and then tell her that her grandma tells her she loves her then why would my daughter be scared if she hugs me in front of grandma.
grandma should love her regardless especially because my daughter loves me.

It's crazy. i feel like i'm preparing for a speech.
just hope the kids turn out without anxiety .
need to make them strong emotionally.
wish kids came with an instruction manual.
 

[takingandsending]

Hi Ilovemylife.

I agree with lnl - I'd take the extra day for the sake of your children. Slapping the children? And who knows what from their grandmother? Your home is their safe haven. The more time in it, the better. One piece of advice I received on the financial side ... .the loss of money (seemingly thrown away) in divorce seems like you will never catch up or recover while we are in it. But 5 years down the road, it's more like a blip in life than the doom it feels like right now.

Kids are pretty resilient, but anything that you can do to ease their challenges, do it. If you can swing 50/50 now even if it's financially tight for you or squeezes your schedule in ways that you don't like, try to find a way to do it. You won't regret doing everything you can for your kids. And for your D8, maybe just tell her that you know it can be confusing for her when you come by her mom's house, and maybe she doesn't know who to be with. Let her know that you will always love her whether she's with her mom, grandmother or with you. That might validate her feelings/experience and let her know she can give you the cold shoulder if she feels she needs to and it won't hurt your love for her.

[livednlearned]

talkingandsending's advice reminded me of something that I heard years ago, that really helped S16 when he was conflicted and in middle school.

His dad came to one of his school plays, which was a real unicorn sighting.

The advice I read was to say to the child (paraphrasing), "Hey, I know sometimes when mom (or grandma) and dad are both present, it can feel so confusing. If you want to hug me in the car and at home, I'm ok with that. You're in a tough spot and you and we can have time together when we're at my place. I love you and want to see you happy and comfortable."

I did that with S16 and it was like removing a ton of bricks from his shoulders.

And about protecting yourself -- maybe look at it like self respect. Take the focus off your ex's bad behavior and focus instead of how you feel you deserve to be treated.

My ex came to the door once to pick up S16 (10 at the time) and started yelling at me. I told him to get back in the car and refused to open the door until he walked away. It was pretty traumatizing for my son  

I told S10 that I won't be yelled at. I understand sometimes people feel angry, and there are healthy ways to express those feelings. Yelling at me is not respectful and I deserve to be spoken to the way I want.

I overheard him saying that to one of his friends, just threw it out there matter of factly, like he was trying it on for himself.

Made my heart burst with hope 

[david]

Another thought, if you really need some time to adjust your schedule make sure you have ex's proposal in writing. This way if you go back to court, I always assume that with my ex, I have documentation showing she was willing before. If my ex makes a big deal in court she will also have to show why she changed her mind. That by itself won't be a big deal in court but it may help show why you need it written in the order.

[Sluggo]

ILML
 

my ex lives with her mother . her mother is very controlling. her mother keeps telling my 8 year old strange things. like your dad left your mom. and god will judge him. and don't ever leave your moms side.
crap like that.
the other day i went to the front of the house to drop off their Halloween costumes (because she was too cheap to buy them)  all of them were in the front lawn playing.
the 3 little ones (6 year old boy and my 4 year old twins ) ran to me and said daddy daddy. i hugged them but my 8 year old kept looking at her grandma and looking at me.
like she didn't want to disappoint her grandma by hugging me.

I am sorry going through all this.  I wanted to share with you what I found helpful.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE_Ex5v8x0g .  This is one of his videos and has many more on the web.  He is a child of parental alienation (an adult now).  He talks about what it felt to be a child and refers to exactly what you describe above.  He gives great insight and practical tips for the parent.   

In my situation.  The PA (parental alienation) has been severe.  It unravels very fast.  I lost emotional contact with them in a period of 6 months.  I have 7 children and the oldest four have been most affected (17,16,13,11).  The oldest two are the worse and the 13 and 11 are getting better but they have been going to therapy with the focus on reunification.   My divorce is in appeal but it started back at the beginning of 2016.  That book on foundations mentioned earlier has been very helpful for me to understand what is happening.   

All of them will avoid me in public.  They look to the mom for queues.  In private the younger ones are ok (8, 7,3).  I jokingly say that the only one that comes up to me at any time is my dog, who my wife many times will have locked up in the bathroom for pickup so the dog wont interact with me.  She knows that I love that dog. 

It is super hard, the hardest and most painful thing I have gone/going through.  The court had ordered therapy from the prelim order.  But exwife did not take them until about 16 months later and it has not been very consistent.  The older 2 kids just don't show up.  I have contempts out for that but each week that goes by the PA hardens into a new normal.  My saving grace has been the younger kids and keeping contact with them emotionally.   

[Sluggo]

Taking and Sending,

advice I received on the financial side ... .the loss of money (seemingly thrown away) in divorce seems like you will never catch up or recover while we are in it. But 5 years down the road, it's more like a blip in life than the doom it feels like right now.

I needed to hear that today.  Thank you!