How to do No Contact when Child is involved?

[tryingveryhard]

Hello!

I would like to go No Contact, or at least very low contact with my uBPDsibling. I just realized in the past several days that I have taken complete responsibility for the relationship with my sibling for my entire adult life. Yikes!  LOL It is actually funny when I really think about it. Who the heck do I think I am? Dr. Phil? God?

 

Yeah, I just realized that I don't need to do that anymore. Actually, I didn't need to do it in the first place but I did and it was not the best idea I've ever come up with.

What the heck was I thinking? What the heck have I been thinking all these years? these decades? What the heck, seriously?     


My problem is how to let go of the reigns while maintaining a supportive relationship with my niece, the uBPDsibling's daughter. She is 15 now and my partner and I are close to her.  In addition to the simple fact that we love her we also provide a crucial source of "resiliency" and support.

Does anyone have any experience with this situation? I would appreciate any help.

All the best to everyone coping with BPD in their lives. I don't have to explain how painful these decisions are and how important it feels to me that I do this right.

[Notwendy]

I think that will be a challenge while the child is still at home. However, she is almost 18 and may soon go off to college or be on her own.

Then there are the family events that you wish to participate in and your sibling will possibly be there.

One of the ideas that I read about is the concept of "medium chill" - a sort of non emotional interaction. PwBPD tend to have a lot of emotional drama. This idea is about staying in contact, but without the emotional swings. It also involves some personal distance emotionally.

I have tried to maintain this kind of situation with my BPD mother. She is connected to other family members who I wished to have a relationship with- one main person was my father when he was alive. There was no way to have a relationship with just him. I also wanted my children to have a relationship with him, so learning to not get into issues with my mother, and also protecting myself emotionally from her was something I have tried to do.

If you have taken on the main responsibility for your relationship with your sibling- then you can cut back, a little, without any kind of announcement or proclamation that things have changed. He/she may not even notice the subtle changes. I don't share much personal information with my mother or ask her to be more involved in my life. Honestly - I don't even think she notices but I don't feel as emotionally reactive or upset about her when I am less emotionally involved.

I think it is great that you care about your niece. This means more to her than she may realize right now. My father's family was a great example of parenting for me. I am grateful for their influence in my life. If your niece is college bound, there will soon be a chance for you and your partner to have your own relationship with her. You can visit her at college and take her out for dinner, speak to her on the phone, be a supportive person for the ups and downs in college- classes, dating, room mate relationships.  One day she will be on her own. So consider the long term as well as the short term. You may choose to put up with your sibling a bit more than you wish until this niece has left home.

[tryingveryhard]

Hi Wendy,

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I find it very helpful because you are calm and not emotionally involved in the relationships. i am going to see if i can get some more information on medium chill as it sounds like it might work for us. I would be interested if anyone else in the forum uses this kind of strategy and how it works for them.

I agree with you that i don't need to make any proclamation of change in the relationship. It would definitely cause a negative reaction and is not my best idea      I think it appealed to me as a kind of instant fix that of course wouldn't fix anything!    Also I think it might be somewhat vengeful or vindictive on my part. I'm not sure. Hey, I'm only human and sometimes it is soo tempting to strike back.

Thank you for your kind response. 

[tryingveryhard]

Hi again Wendy!

I thought I would respond to your other ideas as well. My FOO is pretty much estranged with each other. No family events except the ones that I try to have with my uBPDsibling and niece. Lots of family events on my partner's side of our life. So there isn't a problem with running into my sister at family events. My sister sabotages virtually every single holiday event. Either by cancelling at the last minute or just not showing up or showing up and ruining it once she gets there. Don't get me started. 

I think part of this for me is that I know she doesn't have other friends or family. She alienates literally everyone. And this is obviously very damaging to my niece. So I feel stuck. I can't really disconnect because it will have too much of an impact on my niece, who is living with and being raised by a BPD mother. Like you, I can't have a relationship with my niece without my sister's involvement. My sister never hesitates to use no contact with my niece as punishment for imagined wrongs. And of course my niece is enmeshed and protective of her mom. I think that is why my niece insists on bringing her mom for every visit and outing. We are probably my sister's only social life.



"learning to not get into issues with my mother, and also protecting myself emotionally from her was something I have tried to do"
This is a good reminder to me. i need to do some research on skills to not get into issue with my sister. And protect myself (and my partner) emotionally. Mostly these days i feel angry more than anything. Well, deeply sad too. and afraid... .


I think you're right that I will have to continue to deal with my sister more than i want to until my niece is on her own. Sucks.

[Notwendy]

Hi Trying-

My mother is divisive. You are either on her side or not on her side. If she is angry at me, she will rally the people in her circle, or the people she has some control over, to her "side" against me. From the posts on this board, it isn't unusual for pwBPD to interfere with family contacts, one example is insisting their husband to not speak to his family.

For me, the people in my mother's circle were connected to her- and standing up to her meant possibly losing the relationship with them- in a similar way you have with your niece. My family is also fragmented and I am nearly estranged from many of her family members. If my mother is angry at me, she paints me black to them and over the years this has affected our relationships.

However, these are adults. Your niece is a child. She really has no choice at the moment. Looking at the situation though- if your sister cuts off your relationship with her, this could be more serious for her than you waiting it out. She's 15 already and very soon will be on her own- and then you and your partner can have your own relationship with her.

Is she college bound? One great thing about being in college was that my father had some business nearby and could see me on business trips- without my mother. It was rare to ever get to do things with him alone, but college made this possible.

Your niece can't get to college without some help from her family. College FAFSA is based on parents income. But whatever she can do is one more step to adulthood. Once she is 18 - she is her own individual. If she attends community college, you can meet her for lunch. If she has a choice of colleges, maybe you can take her to look at colleges, or help her with the applications- essays and such.

Being involved in a young adult's life is different from when they are a child. They do have more freedom but still need adults and role models in their lives. Her mother is not a stable one. Even a little thing goes a long way. I have memories of relatives and my friends' parents doing little things- like including me with baking cookies, or going shopping. These ordinary things made an impact on me. College age students learn to look at other adults for guidance and mentoring and you and your partner can be there for her.

Three years is not a long time to wait for her to be able to make some more decisions on her own. In the meantime, staying neutral and not fueling the drama with your sister can allow you to stay in contact with your niece until she's 18.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Tryingveryhard!

Welcome to our family.   I think it is wonderful that you have a good relationship with your niece. She certainly needs you and will most definitely need you in the future as well. If she isn't ready to be asking the hard questions yet and is quite enmeshed with her mom, there will probably come a day when the   goes on and something happens to prompt her looking back on her childhood and wondering about things. Even a simple example is if she sees you and how you relate to her as being quite different than the way her mom relates to her, then she will have made note of that.

Here is a link that might provide some helpful insight for you as well as pointing out helpful things you can do to help your niece:

www.https://bpdfamily.org/2012/02/are-children-of-BPD-parent-likely-to.html

 
Wools

[tryingveryhard]

Thank both of you for your wise and considered responses. My takeaway is that I need to put up with sis for sake of niece, do what I can to avoid the drama with my sister, look forward to an easier relationship with my niece when she reaches 18, and continue to provide positive modeling. Drat, I knew it wouldn’t be easy!

So I think I need more skills on minimizing conflict. I don’t think it is possible to make it stop. It just doesn’t end with her. Doesn’t matter what you do. I will read the article to learn more. I feel very worried and guilty that my niece has to cope with this. I don’t think it is an overreaction to feel heartbroken about it.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi again Tryingveryhard, 

You are absolutely right:

I don’t think it is possible to make it stop. It just doesn’t end with her. Doesn’t matter what you do. I will read the article to learn more. I feel very worried and guilty that my niece has to cope with this. I don’t think it is an overreaction to feel heartbroken about it.

It IS heartbreaking. It IS hard, and no, we can't make it stop. There is good news though. There are ways to grow and understand and gain the ability to be stronger. The tools we learn as we work on relationships help to improve all our relationships. As I continue to work on my own personal healing from the wounds of having a uBPDm, I am more confident in all my relationships save for one, and even that is improving slowly. I think we have to seek the light and encouragement and hope that is beyond the struggle. It is there, keep looking on. You are the light that others see. 

 
Wools
PS Looking forward to your thoughts on the link when you have time to read. There is a lot there so please take your time to ponder.

[Turkish]

Skills on minimizing conflict can be found in the lessons at the top of the board: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108307.msg1064891#msg1064891

I'd approach this a little as if you were an alienated parent.  Niece may be suffering,  and I know that's heartbreaking,  but her mother is her only mom,  so she's going to put up with a lot... .as you did being a sister. Do what you can working the communication tools with your sister,  and validation will work with your niece, but being a safe person for her will do wonders for her,  even if you don't observe the results in real time. 

Turkish

[Notwendy]

Hi Trying,

The great thing about learning relationship skills is that they help in all relationships. You may have a good relationship with your partner, but difficult people are everywhere. One day you might have a difficult boss, or neighbor- and the skills are good to have. So while it may feel like we are doing something for someone else- the person with BPD, or your niece, the benefit of gaining skills is ours.

Yes, it is difficult and what your niece is facing is hard for her. But the fact that she has two adults in her life who care about her and role model a loving relationship is huge. I am grateful for the relatives on my father's side who loved me. Even small things made an impact. When visiting them, I got to be a kid - a kid who didn't worry about what mood my mother was in. When your niece is with you and your partner, she feels loved and is not afraid.

I am also middle age and have a longer term perspective. I have children and they are close to relatives on my father's side. You might be an honorary grandparent if your niece has children. Three years may feel like a long time, but in the grand scheme of things, you will have a long term relationship with your niece, her future significant other, and their family.

[tryingveryhard]

Thank you Woolspinner2000. i tried the link but it is a dead link. i can just google the words but I am afraid that if I learn more about the impact of my uBPDS on her daughter that it will wreck my day. Currently my BPDsis is cutting off our relationship with our niece. BPDsis has been seeing a psychiatrist recently and that is deepening her commitment to splitting us negatively.

I feel numb and have been vomiting occasionally because my stomach is holding the pain. Emotionally I feel virtually nothing. I have been listening to healing meditation music and distracting myself as much as possible. My partner and I have been very involved in my niece's life her whole life.

In any case, the bottom line is that we have no control over this. And it will change. I have to decide if I should contact my uBPDsis and grovel or ride this out until it changes.

I have texted my niece 3 times and called her 3 times. We have invited her for dinner, for a visit, offered to renew a gym membership for her and she has ignored the  texts and been dismissive on the phone. I feel a sense of shock because this is something very new. My sis must have said terrible things about us that have made our niece reject us.

Thanks for listening. I will talk to my partner later about what we should do to manage the current situation.

Tryinghard

[tryingveryhard]

Thank you Turkish. I will read the information you have offered. I didn't think of looking at this as a kind of alienated parent but it could be helpful as you say.

Tryinghard