Now I'm yelling

[Graceinaction]

Today I lost it a little. I'm exhausted and tired of being the only responsible adult. My husband says he'll step up, but it never happens. He talks about it in therapy, and says he wants to. But he doesn't.

He is medically retired from his job and finances are extremely tight. I'm working and doing 90% of all adulting here. I go to work and come home to the house absolutely trashed day after day. Our kids are not doing well. They were used to me taking care of them and my husband is not doing a good job. I've tried to help him. I don't expect him to do things my way, I had hoped he would find his own way. I'm losing hope that will happen.

He was severely neglected as a child and seems to be ok raising his kids the same way. He admits that he isn't giving them enough attention or even meeting some of their most basic needs. Don't worry, I make sure they're being fed and clothed and educated and loved. But trying to work and then come home and handle everything else is taking a toll. How can he go to a therapist and talk about how neglected he was and then do the same thing to his kids? It's disgusting to me.

He's not depressed. It drives me crazy because his doctors always say it's depression. It's not. It's like he thinks this is normal. But he says he knows it's not, and he wants better for his family but he "doesn't know how." I am an understanding and empathic person, which is why I'm still in this marriage. But he does know how. He's had loads of therapy, and he doesn't live in a cave. He sees me with the kids. He says I'm a great mom. He had friends growing up that he spent time at their houses and was jealous of their families. He had friends at work who were married with kids. My point is that he's seen it modeled for him, and he's had therapy.

So today I started yelling. How can someone have no job (and he's not old,) and in an entire week do a few loads of dishes and go get the oil changed in the car and that's it? He has no social life, no hobbies, nothing. He is completely content to sit on the couch and stare into space all day. His parents are the exact same way!

He hasn't been diagnosed with Avoidant personality disorder, but I'm guessing he has that too. I read there's a large co-morbidity rate. He definitely avoids almost everything in life.

Tonight he said it's just laziness. And he is lazy. But don't most lazy people have fun too? He does nothing. He spends his time making everything negative and convincing himself that he can't do anything. Seriously, that's his main pastime.

He finished his intensive outpatient care 2 weeks ago and it's like it never happened. He was looking for DBT, but he stopped looking. I'm considering a therapeutic separation, but with the kids and my job that will be difficult. And it doesn't help that he will have to stay with his parents who are extremely dysfunctional and model the exact behaviors he says he is trying to stop. I don't see a lot of effort, but he says he is trying.

I don't want to be bitter. I have fought and continue to fight losing myself because of his issues. It's getting harder. I admit that if I had a way to leave right now I would. I have a long term plan, but at this moment I can't just go. I continue my long term plan, and have found ways to shorten the amount of time until I could leave, but I continue to hold onto hope that he will fight his illnesses and get better.

Could we use a therapeutic separation to see if he will step up and do what is necessary to start getting better? Do you think living with his parents would help him see how dysfunctional they are, or keep him stuck in the pattern? He knows how dysfunctional they are, and he knows how badly it messed him up. He knows he's doing the same thing to his kids, but he doesn't seem to think he has the power to stop it.

If nothing else I need a break, but he would have to still help with the kids because I have to work and we can't afford outside help.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Graceinaction]

It's been another long day. I asked him to leave. I can't do this, I need a reset.

The timing couldn't be worse, but doesn't it always happen like that? He hasn't worked in over a year and decided to apply for a local manufacturing position. He has a degree and his old job was much better, but he says he's not capable of any work that requires much thinking. In this regard I'm not sure he just being negative. His cognition seems really impaired.

I haven't approached the idea of a therapeutic separation yet, I just told him I needed some time. I know that if he gets the new job, there is a decent chance he will get an apartment and "forget" about me and the kids. With a job to distract him and focus on, he is very capable of it. It would suck, but I'm at the point I am trying to handle too much. Something had to give.

How should I approach the idea of a therapeutic separation given the fact that I already asked him to leave? There's a part of me that doesn't even want to because I'm scared I'll spend the next 3-6 months waiting for some sign of change or him following through with anything.

He knows he has BPD. He's been diagnosed. He accepts it. And he just gets worse. He says he wants to get better but he doesn't want to do anything to make it happen. He lives in this weird world where his parents aren't actually his parents and he seeks out father figures everywhere and tries to put me in the role of his mother.

I love the real him, if it indeed IS the real him. I don't know anymore. I don't enable him, I don't baby him, and he says he loves my independence and spunk. But those are the very things he is trying to break.

Validating him is very hard. We have the opposite issue. He doesn't validate me or the kids. Heck, 75% of the time he doesn't even acknowledge us when we speak. Every therapist he's seen has told him he needs to listen and hear and validate. It doesn't get any better. He either flat ignores us or tells us why we shouldn't feel the way we do. "You just woke up angry." "You're just tired." "You're just trying to screw with my head."

I could handle a lot of his symptoms. But his desire to destroy our life is too much. He wants to be a loser even if that means taking everything from me and the kids. We've already lost so much. I read an article where pwBPD sometimes try to prove their parents right in all the things they were raised hearing. That appears to be what he's doing, but who would take it so far to ruin their own childrens' lives?

I've read and read. I've learned. But I can always see clarity in others' situations and not my own.

[Radcliff]

Hi Graceinaction!  First, I am so, so sorry that nobody responded to your posts.  I am trying to get back into action after long time away to sort out drama on my end (I am currently single parenting and trying to sort out treatment options for my wife).

Please give us an update.  Is your husband out of the house?  What kind of arrangement do you have?  Are you finding any peace?

What kind of support system do you have?  Do you have close friends nearby who you can lean on for some support?

You posed many tough questions.  I don't have any easy answers.  I think the key is getting the space you need to think about these things.  Are you getting that space?

Best,

WW

[pearlsw]

Hi graceinaction,

Sorry to hear you struggling so much! I have no experience with Therapeutic Separation. I've only read about it here and I assume you have too? https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=141686.0 I want to share the link for others who are curious and may find it helpful as well.

Are there any members around who have experienced TS and could chime in here with us?

I hear that you need a break, and that is certainly fair. Relationships can be quite exhausting at times.

Do you also feel you may need to do some self-work? I find that is the shortest route to seeing improvements!

Why, may I ask, do you feel the need to have him see his parents in the same way you do?  I know that a lot of our pain in life comes from our expectations and it takes a lot of introspection to identify them and let go of notions that seem/are really hard to let go.

wishing you the best! ~pearlsw.

[Frankee]

Good Evening Grace, I'm so sorry that you are having a rough time lately.  I'm sure with the compounded added stress of the holidays doesn't help either.  Holidays make even the most level headed sane person go nuts sometimes.  I was MIA from the boards for a little bit.  I know you have responded to a lot of my posts.  How is it going now?  Have you addressed the therapeutic separation to him?  It's good your venting on here.  It's so frustrating when it seems that nothing seems to be getting better and that things are just moving backwards.

The part about living with his parents may amplify his current negative situation.  I posed a similiar question awhile back about my H's mother.  I wanted to address the fact that she abandoned him when he was little, ask her why she was never around, why she's now trying to get into his life.  Another member pointed out something.  She may have issues of her own (like you say your H's parents do).  If they haven't made any attempt at therapy or improving themselves, being around them more may increase the toxic behaviour he's doing.  I can't say for sure, but it feels that way.  I also noticed that even though they may be aware of their behaviour, they honestly may not care enough to want to change.  If they are old, they may be set it their ways and never change.

They are a lot of tough questions.  It's hard carrying all the weight and seeing a loved one slip into a state of mind that they aren't coming out of.  It seems that you already have a long term plan to remove yourself from the relationship.  Do you think when the time comes and you would be able to leave, do you think you would go through with it?  Or keep holding on, waiting for a change?

I understand how it seems that I feels we can only get clarity in other's situations and not ours.  Currently in the same dilemma.  My H blew a serious gasket earlier this morning.  I'm still not sure how to recover from it.  I find that when my mind is a complete mess, running around with a bunch of what ifs, that I can't make sense of anything.  Are you taking some time to self care?  I have to be reminded to do that as well.  When you have a partner that isn't supportive or you can't depend on for emotional support, it really hurts and can make you feel very much alone.  We are here to support and help you through this difficult time.  I really hope that whatever path you decide to take leads you to happiness.

[AskingWhy]

Dear Graceinaction, this is why pwPDs are called "crazymakers."

It is normal to feel this way on the other end of a relationship with a pwBPD.   Many PDs, as you know, are co-morbid.

My H is uBPD/uNPD, and I have looked at his parents and children and see the interaction is all very unhealthy.

Don't be too hard on yourself, as a relationship with a person with PDs is very, very stressful.  It is very much like parenting a child of three.  You can't get sense into them no matter how hard you try.  It's like "reparenting" your own spouse and it's very tiring.

I try to have empathy for my H and it's not always easy, especially when he is raging.  I know my uNPD FIL, and I am sure growing up with him as a child and young adult must have been awful.  H left home right after high school to join the military.  MIL was the enabler, and the family lived in near poverty due FIL never having a stablem good-paying job.  (He always had a high opinion of himself and still does, even when he is asking H for money.)

If your H is also APD, there may be some depression in the picture that is coming out as laziness, so don't discount this just yet.  People who are unmotivated are often depressed.  :)epression gives you a sense of being stuck and finding it hard to move forward.

You know the diagnostic criteria for what you are up against, so, again, don't be hard on yourself.

Take a deep breath and carry on.

[Radcliff]

Hi Grace,

It's been a while since we heard from you!  How are you doing?

Best,

WW