Theory as to why BPDs stay gone?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Mine had to do with culture differences and lack of parents blessing, shame based country and BPD so its a little different.

However, it seems when a BPD leaves, no matter how well they were treated, they are gone for good most of the time.  Is it because they paint you black and in their mind see everything as your fault and erase or they can't remember the vast majority of good times?  Even normal relationship break-ups that are very bad have more contact and communication than when a BPD leaves.  Maybe its just an innate thing wired into a BPD, but the more I learn its seems very clear cut that when they decide it's over, it's over. Period, it's set in stone and almost never changes.  BPD's in what I've learned and read are some of the most rigid, unforgiving, uncommunitive people of any disorder. Is it because they are unable to ever look back and see the truth/reality? Why?

[Bo123]

Mine had to do with culture differences and lack of parents blessing, shame based country and BPD so its a little different.

However, it seems when a BPD leaves, no matter how well they were treated, they are gone for good most of the time.  Is it because they paint you black and in their mind see everything as your fault and erase or they can't remember the vast majority of good times?  Even normal relationship break-ups that are very bad have more contact and communication than when a BPD leaves.  Maybe its just an innate thing wired into a BPD, but the more I learn its seems very clear cut that when they decide it's over, it's over. Period, it's set in stone and almost never changes.  BPD's in what I've learned and read are some of the most rigid, unforgiving, uncommunitive people of any disorder. Is it because they are unable to ever look back and see the truth/reality? Why?

[Harley Quinn]

This is an interesting post.  From what I see here, there are a great number of members on these boards who have ongoing recycles with their BPD loved ones.  Some pwBPD get back in touch even after many years of splitting up with an ex partner.  What is your source of information, out of interest?

Reading into your question Bo, are you researching to see if your ex is likely to return to you?

Love and light x

[Lost-love-mind]

However, it seems when a BPD leaves, no matter how well they were treated, they are gone for good most of the time.  Is it because they paint you black and in their mind see everything as your fault and erase or they can't remember the vast majority of good times? 

  Maybe its just an innate thing wired into a BPD, but the more I learn its seems very clear cut that when they decide it's over, it's over. Period, it's set in stone and almost never changes.  BPD's in what I've learned and read are some of the most rigid, unforgiving, uncommunitive people of any disorder. Is it because they are unable to ever look back and see the truth/reality? Why?

Bo
Excellent topic.
"Even normal relationship break-ups that are very bad have more contact and communication than when a BPD leaves."
My ex wife of 20+ yrs still communicates with me even after her new marriage. Of course we have 2 adult children living out of state. But with all the nasty terrible things I did to her and the children, she is very kind in communication.

My exBPD?
Despite having fun together with music and a few intellectual topics in common, she blocked me on everything and will not answer emails. I was painted black as the narcissism devil.
I've apologized (only looking needy and weak) and told her about my seeking therapy.
Still no response. I've come to the realization it may never happen. Oh well, working on my self awareness.

[Zen606]

Hi Bo,
I think that individuals with BPD/traits as per the literature see issues in black and white, yet not all respond in the same way to ending a relationship. It depends on the person, the situation, and where they are on the BPD/traits spectrum.   My experience with a BP trait male is similar but different as well from what I read from other members in the forum or the literature. I believe that individual differences do impact these experiences.

Regardless, the roller coaster ride is a constant.

Zen606

[40days_in_desert]

I would have agreed with you if I were still in the first year and a half after our separation. If it wasn't for the money I had to give her every two weeks, I felt like she would have rather me disappear off the earth.

After a year and a half, she said that we were meant to be together and wanted to work things out. She never left her boyfriend so I bailed on the recycle. Since then, I have been the worst and most evil person responsible for all of her problems (in her opinion) but then would end up trying three more recycle attempts. The latest one within the past two weeks. I even have it recorded. Don't know why but I guess having both the angry and belittling recordings with the recycle attempt recording, I can remind myself just how the tide can turn.

Her version is completely different regarding the push-pull and recycle attempts. She said that I'm nice to her when I want something. I'm the one who is doing the push-pull. Hmmm... .

She may never try another recycle attempt for the rest of our lives but then again she might try again tomorrow. I never had any warning when she did try. The latest one was literally texting me in the morning what kind of sub-human I am and then asking me to meet her that night because she needs me.

Everyone is different and every person with BPD is different in some way. Like every time I hear someone tell of their pwBPD having a successful career/job, I can't fathom that being possible. 

[crushedagain]

I don't know anything about BPD and statistics, but it makes sense that once somebody is painted black then the BPD is not going to want to talk to them anymore. They're probably busy idealizing their new favorite person.

I know my BPDexgf got rid of her phone and isolated herself with me for the first 6-8 months of our relationship. I wasn't comfortable with it, but she made me her life. During that period the only way she could ever contact somebody, or be contacted, would have been through email.

I think she's probably doing the same thing with the next person, assuming she's with a new guy, but I have no idea because I've never tried to contact her. I'd imagine her phone # has changed at least, and she may have ditched the email accounts she used to contact me through. I don't know if I'm painted black, but it may be a possibility. I am never going to initiate contact with her so I will never know, but it's been over 2 months of no contact and she has never once reached out.

[Bo123]

I agree, this is an interesting post, however, just having a ton of recycles doesn't really make a case for my question.  It's factual what you say, but the vast majority do not get back together.  How happy are those that recycle 20 times?  My source is every book I can read, my T, and 2 friends who are T's at the PhD level that I largely leave out of my personal life to maintain the friendship and the DSM-5 and 2 Dr friends. They ALL said you wont see many specialists in BPD as it's one of the absolute toughest disorders for even the experts to treat. This is my 1st BPD and yes some come back and have a relationship, ask them if it ever became a normal relationship, the % is extremely low.
I also agree with Zen that it depends a lot of how bad their BPD is, some is mild and some crazy.  For me, I can find no evidence that she will ever even contact me, that's odd in all my dating experience, the norm for me is to stay friends.  Harley if you have data to show how easy it is to fix a BPD break-up and how high the % the success rate is from there, I'd love to see it as nothing from the extensive research I've done has indicated other than my statement.  Wish there was a pill, treatment(lots of data on how treatment resistant they are) or anything that brings them back to with 2 or 3 stand deviations.  I simply can't find it.  Hope I do.

[Zen606]

I believe that the best thing one could do in the situation crushedagain describe, is no contact. Let's  go on with our lives. Learn from this and practice self-care, get to know ourselves better, work on our own stuff. Sometimes things happen in order to be led into other things. My relationship with a bp trait male and our 3rd separation led me to do much needed work on myself. I consider myself lucky to have escaped after 1 year and 3 breakups. So many red flags going up during that time. Now I know why!   No contact, take care of ourselves, best recipe.
Zen606

[40days_in_desert]

Bo, I agree that successful recycles or reconciliation is a pretty low percentage of BPD relationships. I thought you meant the pwBPD wanting to reconnect with their ex. We never actually got back together. The main reason is that I maintained my boundaries. The first boundary was for her to leave her boyfriend. She would have also had to come to the conclusion, on her own, that she has issues and that those issues require professional help. So yeah, very unlikely in most cases.

[Zen606]

40 days in the desert-
I agree about the boundaries issue in your reply to Bo. This is crucial, not only to maintain our self respect and emotional health but to provide structure in another potentially disastrous re-cycle.
Zen606

[crushedagain]

After my experience with my BPDexgf, I don't see how it would be possible for her, or anybody like her, to ever be in a successful long-term relationship. She is completely lacking self awareness, appropriate boundaries, interpersonal communication skills, emotional stability, maturity, accountability, honesty, empathy and more that it's like trying to build a foundation on shifting sands. I think they just completely burn people and relationships out and they have enough sense to understand that, and they're onto the next one.

[EdR]

Hi Bo, hi Harley Quinn,


I don't think the push-pull dynamic and recycles rule out the "no closure endings".

From my experience they are two sides of the same coin.

My guess is that the eventual "no closure" ending, the "not being able to be friends" and the "they just vanish from our lives" versus the  "recycle" dynamic depend on several things:
-) where they are on the BPD spectrum
-) how emotional was the connection (the more emotional, the harder it seems for a pwBPD)
-) what OUR boundaries are and how we dealt with previous recycles: did we want to talk about it ( for a pwBPD a no go) or did we just go along for the ride, no questions asked.
-) how well are the replacements doing. How quickly can they muster their "flying monkeys". If the pwBPD feels okay, the need to reel us back in just is not there. I recently wrote about that as THE main reason why a lot of us perceive a correlation between beauty and BPD.
-) how much shame do they need to overcome to come back... .
-) etc. etc.

I've dealt with multiple pwBPD now. Some confirmed, some unconfirmed. Where there is and was emotional distance I had no trouble whatsoever. I could not even tell they were BPD at times.
But where there was true friendship, a true emotional connection, things eventually went haywire. :-(

[Pencil sketch]

Very interesting topic, and one that keeps us all guessing, and to a degree, in the loop.
When my ex disappeared last year, there was no warning, we had words, she sent me a link to a song, and stopped replying, I was devastated, and very confused. 4 months later, she gets in touch, and acts as if nothing had happened, I did bring up why she just up and left, I was met with a wall of resistance, and accusations, I was attacking her.
One very interesting thing I noticed, there was alot of name calling, anger, frustration and hurt from both of us, if I ever, opened up, and told her how much she hurt me, what she had done, she would then accuse me of verbal abuse.
She maintained she hated my guts, had no feelings for me, yet told me I was utterly selfish, for having the monopoly on all the sadness, you never know where you are with them, and although her changing her number, was a hard pill to swallow, I know she isn't coming back, so I have only myself to work on, which is harder than I thought.

[40days_in_desert]

Very well defined list EdR.

Even though it is natural to focus on the pwBPD after a breakup, we need to try and focus on us as much as possible post breakup. Whether the non had issues before meeting their pwBPD or developed issues during the relationship, we have to get better before we can move on. To be able to process the grief and pain in a healthy way and actually become stronger for it. Even though every story here is somewhat different, we know and can empathize what others are going through.

The faster we can move from blame, regardless of how true the incidents with our pwBPD, the faster we can move on. Bo does bring up an interesting topic and I'm glad he did. Most posts on this site lead me to reflect on my own situation so thank you Bo.

 

[Lost-love-mind]

All great theories of pwBPD staying NC after mos and yrs.
I will never know about "ofc a replacement was already in her sight or she went back to a previous victim ("host" to idealuze.
My exBPD was extremely a hermit and should have saw the following "red flags":
1 - she had 2 phone numbers and the one used for texting was useless for live phone conversation. Can anyone say Pinger?
2 - even after she allowed me to post our pics on FB, she refused to allow me to use her name. Can anyone say "uncommitted" and others in the hangar fueled and waiting to fly?
3 - she took a new job and immediately claimed she was a "creep magnet" for other guys.
4 - she saw me wave at her elderly next door neighbor and told me " I don't want you ever talking to her".
5 - her WiFi was setting off electromagnetic "rays" that gave her headaches and she never allowed me the PW. Can anyone say "tin foil hat"?

Stop. Enough.
 But listing that eccentric behavior helps me realize reality and forget the gorgeous blue eyes and blonde hair 10 yrs younger.

I'm truly fortunate she refuses my friendship offers via my emails. Why would I want to be recycled by a woman that thinks Infowars is the only reliable news source?

[Bo123]

Good post EdR, in fact there were several good points by people here.  There are so many variables, even with us.  For me, I didn't know she was BPD until I got a T as on the spectrum she was mostly mild, some red flags yeah but not significantly from a bad relationship(her co-workers and friends all thought she walked on water and she got "employee of the quarter" at an outstanding rate wherever she worked, it showed up almost totally in the relationship, and she had some very solid good qualities.  As Zen says, it gives us a chance to work on ourselves, there's a spectrum there also.  For me. this BPD has just left "A trail of tears".  With 1 exception, I had high standing with all her friends and they would often back me up and her older best friend said well before the break-up that if she was really interested in me she better step it up a little as I was treating her so well and the 500 mile round trips to see her when she was on rotations, that she thought it unlikely she would find someone better.  :)on't know if that's true I was just being me and it was easier for me to drive to see her.  But man when a BPD leaves it's at least to me, an experience like nothing I've ever seen in my life.  For the majority, not all, but when they're gone or if you get painted black even though you treated them very well, $100 million dollars would not change their mind, it seems it really is hard wired into them and they have no control over their own thoughts or actions.  That's why even the best of T's have a mind draining time making progress with them, that's if they ever get into therapy.    Yes T will give us a chance to look at ourselves, but if we are remotely normal, to me it makes the whole BPD thing all the more confusing, you just have to accept it for what it is and move on. If they were leaving for a better life or happiness or fell out of love, it would make sense, but it seems reason, logic and common sense have nothing to do with their actions.  Their new bf/gf often seem to be much worse than what they left, funny if it wasn't so sad. I guess that's why they call it a disorder.

[Bo123]

Harley Quinn--  Thanks for asking my source of information as I'm always glad to provide what I learn.  Another source I forgot to mention, and keep in mind that I didn't know she was BPD until I saw a T and I kept the majority of the details out of my friendships of those people in the medical field until I found out. Another source was one of my friend Ts at the PhD level is married to a Psychiatric nurse at the PhD level which also in her state allows her to prescribe, she spent 25 years in the field from private practice to state, federal and specialized practices that dealt with difficult issues like Autism and the like.  She now is a College professor teaching other PhD in the Psychiatric areas.  When I finally told my T friend, he said "your in for a ride".  He then insisted I talk to his wife and she said depending on where they are in the spectrum, its very difficult at best.  She was surprised she got no indication as they had met her and we spent a fair amount of time with them.  My BPD was perfect at work and parties, but when we got in the car or home, that usually low level BPD awakened at times.  Anyway the Psychiatric nurse said let me do some research and talk to people in her industry that would handle more of these issues and she was surprised that she herself just had little recall of experiences herself and didn't remember her courses covering much on the subject past the DSM-5.  Her final report was her M.S. and PhD course books had little on it except very difficult to treat, expect resistance from BPD, a lot of cooperation from non BPD and in her database and prescribing research, no drugs were listed and prognosis was in effect, depending on the symptoms--poor. Her theory and that of her professional friends was there was so little information because BPDs don't seek treatment, they avoid it at all cost in most, not all, but most cases. I don't know how much deeper one can go into research, she also said she rarely recalls seminars for treating BPD's, but seminars for those dealing with BPDs, current or left.  Yes some work out and I'm estatic for them, yes some find a way to weather the cycles and stay together and some even come back after who knows how long and for what reason, and you probably wont find out either,I'm thrilled for them also, but now that all my Dr and nurse friends and my T know the details, its pretty much unanimous that unless they are very high functioning and very low on the spectrum, at best your life is borderline hell at times and not likely to ever relapse for the better, it's just not the nature of the disorder.  Thanks again for politely questioning my sources.  Best of luck to all who are dealing with this.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Bo,

Thanks for answering my question.  I feel I have a better understanding of where you were going with your thread now.  From what I gather, you've been attempting to find out if a BPD r/s can be successful and 'healthy' or 'normal'?  I can empathise as I spent a long time (during the r/s) devouring success stories on this site, trying to find a common link.  The common thread I found was a willingness to compromise, on both parts, acceptance - again on both parts - and ultimately treatment with commitment from both.  My exBPDbf was, unlike your gf, who sounds very high functioning, on the extreme end of the spectrum.  He was very low functioning and yet had taken himself by choice into treatment 12 months before we met.  The motivation was there, however as you've discovered there is pushback and resistance from some MH professionals regards working with someone with this disorder and this was certainly a sad but very real stumbling block along the way. 

I'm wondering if the following article might help you to see what is involved in being 'successful' in a BPD r/s.  I feel it gives a good indication of what is required on the part of the non partner.  In reality Bo, a BPD r/s is simply not made to last, nor if it stands the test of time will it ever be a 'normal' r/s.  This is painful and disappointing for both parties.  It is pretty heartbreaking that the thing a pwBPD longs for more than anything is to be loved and accepted yet they do not have the interpersonal skills to achieve this in a sustained way.  In short, it takes a very particular type of individual and a whole lot of sacrifice to stick it out for the long run with someone who has this disorder.  There will always be exceptions to the rule, however this article hopefully may answer some of your questions from your own standpoint.  If you haven't already read this, I hope that it helps.  You can find it  Here.

Love and light x

[blueblue12]

Hey Bo great thread and Harley thank you for the link to the article. I must say after reading it I actually did all the wrong things throughout my marriage. I just walked around tip toeing on egg shells most of the time. I just became the caretaker and took all the abuse. Then again I had no idea of BPD until after the demise of the relationship and it was my T who discussed patterns of behaviour, I have learnt much since then. I really had no idea I just took it all, all the changes, the rage, the various stages. Of course now I can see it all.

I guess the hardest part was the blaming, as when you get blamed for years you end up believing that it is all your fault. I did. And we did engage in couple’s therapy over the years but now I realise that it was the wrong therapy. As my T explains it needs to be dbt where upon they actually look at the actions and the explore those avenues properly. The therapy we engaged really served her to blame me in front of someone else. There was nothing wrong with her. I was the controlling, insecure guy, I had the problems.

Now I understand. Too late. Then again it was always going to be too late as the condition is such that there is little you can do. I just spent my time apologizing for everything in sight. I became this tiny little guy whom lost all his self esteem. It was sad. At the end she just abused me more and I didn’t stand up to anything. I just took it all as I just wanted to fix my marriage, I wanted it to last. It wasn’t going to last, it was been destroyed before my eyes and there was no way back.

A few months after the demise and damage, she came back wanting to fix everything, back for a “fresh start” as I was “the love of her life” there was my proof of this horrible condition. Very sad and extremely hard to live through.

[Shoct]

Hi Bo123

Being a neophyte in this realm I don't have any real theories.

I can only speak from my limited and recent experience. I have not seen my pwBPD in a relatively short time--less than two weeks. And there is a possibility that she will try to come back--she did previously. But I feel it is very different this time. Previously the time between I am discarded and sucked back in was within a couple of days. This time feels different, and the 'why' of that is why i wanted to respond.

From my understanding some pwBPDs come back to charm (i am trying to use the lingo now that i have the exBPD scout badge) and will recycle like crazy. But i think i have read that is because they have exhausted other options. And they come back as they feel they can fill that void again with a previous ex.

But, in my case, she lives in a very large city in America, and lives in the downtown area. She is absolutely beautiful, like movie star beautiful. Young, active, engaging, employed, etc. She has ZERO problem picking up new guys. She walks into a room and she has the rooms attention. Therefore, in cases like this, i think the BPD 'stays gone' because there is never a reason to go back to what was already used--there is an abundant other options that don't have any of the negative feelings associated with past boyfriends.

[blueblue12]

Hey Shoct, similarly for me as well my ex BPD is also beautiful and has no problems attracting guys, she tried back with me a few times and I was not that keen, lots of nice words from her but the actions not there and the realisation of the damage of the demise not really there either. So for her I guess it is move on and she will have no problems getting new guys, even if I may say her choices are usually quite bad and they don’t last very long, a few months here and there before she decides they are not good. Our relationship lasted 14 years, I guess now because I was a good provider, a strong supporter and put up with all the drama and blame.

[Shoct]

hi Raul, I'm really sorry for what you went through. Fourteen years is a long time. If she was BPD the whole time you were with her I can't imagine how difficult that could have been for you, the relationship and the aftermath. Obviously I am projecting, not knowing you or your circumstances.

I only went through 3 beginnings/ends and it was devastating. And I can see your point--I am not that (provider/supporter) in her eyes, and hence a very brief relationship. I have a job and all, but hers is better, and a better house, education, etc. And i kind of did't handle the beginning of the relationship that well--when she told me about 6 dates in, late at night, via text that she wished she was dead. I kind of was shocked and didn't provide the comfort she wanted and needed.

I think, as someone else said on another chance, i was merely a placeholder until she could find more suitable that would potentially last a lot longer.

I like to tell myself I am lucky for it. And at times I feel lucky. But mainly it is the disgusting waltz of regret and loneliness.

[Bo123]

Harley--Thanks for the link, I will read it.  And WOW, your partner sought 12 months of treatment on their own, that's impressive and a record from what I've seen.

Raul-- beginning to accept that things are your fault unfortunately seems to be part of what is required to be in a BPD relationship, always exceptions, but there is a strong tendency to think if WE only did better and met their expectations no matter how distorted, things would be better, it's risky dating a BPD.

Shoct--  Oh man, just dating a model as I think you described her presents a whole new set of issues besides BPD.  If she is that attractive, one argument, out to a bar with her gf's and you become a distant memory for at least the time being.  This may not apply but I've had 2 male friends who were models and both had the lowest self-esteem of anyone I knew. maybe all the good DNA went to their looks but woman would interupt our dinner and say "I've never done this before and here is my # if your available", again and again.  Every girl was so shallow and the guys had such low self-esteem, he would sleep with them in a week and then just say its not working and the cycle continued.  One finally found a woman so well grounded that I would have married her.  He cheated on her and she got a divorce, I help both them move.  Sad.  I really hope your situation works out for you.

[Lostinanother]

In my opinion, I think that they only come back if they think they stand a chance at being accepted back.
If they cheated and lied and they know that the bridges are burnt and they will lose face, they won’t come back. It’s easier and less painful for them no matter what kind of bond you had with them for them to just move on.

I found my ex in so many lies and finally ignored her and cut her off, she knows if she comes back she would have to do it on her knees... .and she isn’t that kind of girl at all.

As other posters have said, my ex was extremely beautiful and sexy so it’s easier for her to just bounce to other guys... .

Add to that she is probably still furious at me and has painted me black for not believing her lies and refusing to be mugged off any further... .

[Bo123]

Lostinanother--This is going to start a fire for some.  If you have anything that others are attracted to, a Rolex watch, sports  car, I had a very high performance trans Am and a Alfa Romeo, one night after the drag strip, someone followed me home and stole the Trans Am.  2 attempts to steal that Alfa but the ignition lock out, alarm and beeper to me stopped it.  I had a gf who 2 piece bikini's were built around, she was always getting hit on even though we were engaged and wore a ring.  We'd go dancing, I'd go to the bathroom and some guy would be hitting on her in 2 minutes, some were reluctant to leave even after I told them and she told them to leave.  I was a 1st Degree Brown belt in Karate and offered them a 15 second solution to the problem or they could leave now.  All those who stayed regretted it, so I understand your issue of dating a fox, treating you like crap and her walking into a bar and getting hit on in 30 seconds.  Sucks.  Sounds like she painted you black, had plenty of attention, lied about the real relationship and you know how guys are, especially on the rebound.  Will she beg to come back and admit all her errors, I hope so, but what do you think the chances are?  She would rather date a scum bag who treats her like crap than you, that's the sad part of BPD.  I really feel for you, I can relate and I hope she does wake up after getting used and come back to you and I'm glad to see you have set boundries that you will no longer accept.  Good for you!  I hope it works out man, BPD is a B****.

[Lostinanother]

Bo,
Thanks for your reply.
My situation was a little complicated as I’m married with children and my ex was a 2 year affair that nearly killed me because I fell in love with her... .I wasn’t perfect either and I was bad at times but I never lied to her and I never blamed her.
When I finally caught her cheating on me with 2 other guys and lying and gaslighting me and then she blamed me and gave me the ultimatum to leave my family. I was planning to, but I could never throw away my life for someone who cheats and lies so much... .That’s what she just couldn’t understand... .

She was Avery low functioning BPD waif and there were millions of red flags that I simply ignored. The idolization stage lasted a year with her... .

Been a month of NC. I think her and the replacement have already hit a rough patch.
Some days I feel sad for her
Some days I’m angry
It’s been 4 months since we finished but it continued on and off for 2 months until I got sick of her triangulation and lying

[Bo123]

Lostinanother--  Ok, so if I understand this right, you were married and had an affair with a BPD, is that correct?  If so, wow, I understand love and the power of it but a wife and 2 kids?  You certainly had a difficult time trying to figure this all out.  Did you want the family or her?  An affair is a full time job. Leaving a family is a disaster when you leave for a BPD.  What if she comes back begging, are you going to leave the family or continue the affair?  I think you know where the affair will lead especially with your boundries, which are good.  If I understand correctly, is your family worth giving up for a BPD?  I know you know the answer to that question.  I'm no expert but have researched a lot and if you love your wife and kids, that should be the priority and the BPD should be gone.  Just guy to guy, what would make you even want to date a BPD no matter how attractive?  What is missing in in your marriage.  I'm on your side and hope this all works out but I can't help feeling that you have asked yourself the same questions.  What if this BPD calls your wife, what the hell is going to happen then.  Not good.  I'm trying to be a friend here and keep you out of trouble.  Maybe she's gone for now, maybe she'll be back in a couple of months to punish you?  Wow.  Don't know how you communicated but block cell, email and text and try to fix your current issues for your own good before you end up divorced and alone and paying child support, this could go bad real quick.  I'm trying to help.

[Bo123]

Harley--  I read the article you posted.  I agree with the vast majority of the advice.  It was truthful, honest and right on the spot as to how to deal with a BPD.  It even advises T's to seek therapy to stay grounded during therapy with a BPD, which shows you how difficult it is even for a professional to deal with a BPD.  There is simply no way around it, BPD's are one of the toughest disorders to make work, with or w/o therapy, low functioning or high and once their mind switches to black, you are toast and not much you can do.  Love them or not, good people or not, it's a full time job.  Bravo to those that can make it work as most people working full time can not change their hard wired mind.  Best of luck to those who keep on trying, you got your work cut out for you for life.

[Lostinanother]

Bo, thanks for the brotherly advice. Luckily after the break up I had a lot of good advice from people on the board, especially Elmurr.

As for my story; maybe you could read my earlier threads.

I love my wife and kids more than anything, however when you have an extremely beautiful younger woman love bombing you and making you believe she is everything you’ve ever wanted from a woman, it’s hadd to say no. As a lot of guys here have noticed. I think the fact that she was trying to win me over made her try even harder... .

What made things more traumatic was she got pregnant and decided on an abortion. Which was so traumatic for both of us and she often used it as a weapon when I tried to call things off. If it wasn’t that it was the constant self harm and suicide threats. Looking back at things now, I’m not even 100% sure that the baby was mine, which just adds to the trauma... .I asked her that and that was one of the many reasons I was painted black. She even used it as an excuse for her cheating in the end, even though she cheated before I’d even asked her about that in a sensitive way, as I knew she was hanging around with a coworker at the time of conception... .

It’s been nearly a month NC and I would be lying if I said I didn’t check my phone at least once a day to see if she has messaged me... .
Do I want her back? I can honestly say No way. However I do still love her and I do still care about her.
I’m trying to mend myself and my marriage.
But recently I’ve been dreaming about her a lot and when I wake up I am often depressed.
The negatives easily outweigh the positives.
To be honest, the sex was amazing and she was a really great person to talk to, she was really funny and could be really caring... .But the relationship really was crazymaking and constantly full of drama and triangulation. It was so mentally tiring.
I hope she will find what she is looking for.
But all I’m left with is questions. What was real? What was truth and what was lies? How could she lie to my face so easily and so often.
And the NC goes two ways. I may be ignoring her but she is also ignoring me and I know it sounds hypercritical but it does hurt that she hasn’t tried to reach out and apologize for everything she did.
However, I do know she will never do this, as she will never ever admit to anything she has done being wrong or being bad. It was all me.
I told a friend the other day that this woman really was the big love of my romantic life but she was also one of the worst people I have ever met... .

[Bo123]

Lostinanother--The hate/love/ checking for emails/texts/depression/all the thinking about them is normal for an extremely high % here.  A basic BPD break-up is 10X harder than a normal one, add in all the other issues you dealt with and how do you find time to think about anything else.  Life goes on.  Not the way we like at times or the speed we want and closure is the Devil's playground. Take care of yourself and work the issues one at a time, even the simplest one being solved is progress.  May get something from your Dr to help you sleep and give your mind a rest.  Wishing the best for you and you appear to have a good grip on a lot of the issues, maybe if you're not already, try therapy a few times to see if it helps.  Wishing the best for you man.