Anybody been through a social investigation?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I divorced my wife with BPD in March, and came away with a very favorable time sharing arrangement. She made things so bad for herself (suicide attempts/threats, irrational and unpredictable behavior, etc.) that she was forced to sign what I put in front of her to avoid trial. I have our two children 100% overnights, and she gets them two days/week. I also have 100% parental responsibility (decision-making ability).

She filed for a modification less than six months after our divorce, and is asking for 50% time sharing. Her petition states that she suffered from depression, but is mentally healthy now. It leaves out the fact that she previously admitted under oath that she was also diagnosed with PTSD and BPD, and is not receiving therapy for either.

I have decided to ask the court to order a social investigation, to be conducted by a child psychologist. We go to court on Wed to have this ordered.

I am nervous about the whole thing because any significant 'evidence' that I have is now over a year old. I have a lot of documented inconsistencies and irrational decisions since then,but the major things all happened 1-2 years ago. I am certain that there are things going on with her that I don't know about, as we don't live together. As far as I can tell she is no longer depressed or suicidal, but I believe this is because she is no longer responsible for two young children and a household. My fear is that as her responsibilities increase, she will slide back into depression.

Has anybody been through this process? I am unsure of the best approach to take with this social investigator. I have such a tremendous amount of documentation, but I don't want to seem like I am just being spiteful by bringing out every detail of the past two years. Any advice or words of encouragement are appreciated.

[Skyhawk]

I divorced my wife with BPD in March, and came away with a very favorable time sharing arrangement. She made things so bad for herself (suicide attempts/threats, irrational and unpredictable behavior, etc.) that she was forced to sign what I put in front of her to avoid trial. I have our two children 100% overnights, and she gets them two days/week. I also have 100% parental responsibility (decision-making ability).

She filed for a modification less than six months after our divorce, and is asking for 50% time sharing. Her petition states that she suffered from depression, but is mentally healthy now. It leaves out the fact that she previously admitted under oath that she was also diagnosed with PTSD and BPD, and is not receiving therapy for either.

I have decided to ask the court to order a social investigation, to be conducted by a child psychologist. We go to court on Wed to have this ordered.

I am nervous about the whole thing because any significant 'evidence' that I have is now over a year old. I have a lot of documented inconsistencies and irrational decisions since then,but the major things all happened 1-2 years ago. I am certain that there are things going on with her that I don't know about, as we don't live together. As far as I can tell she is no longer depressed or suicidal, but I believe this is because she is no longer responsible for two young children and a household. My fear is that as her responsibilities increase, she will slide back into depression.

Has anybody been through this process? I am unsure of the best approach to take with this social investigator. I have such a tremendous amount of documentation, but I don't want to seem like I am just being spiteful by bringing out every detail of the past two years. Any advice or words of encouragement are appreciated.

[livednlearned]

Nice time-sharing agreement to have as status quo

My experience is that the burden to show progress is on the parent who submits a motion to modify. Status quo can go a long ways. In family law court, a judge is seen as the supreme witness, so a new judge (if that's what you have) is more likely to assume that the status quo is there for good reason, and your ex will need to do a good job explaining what is different. Most parents don't lose that much custody over something like depression. The fact she is not disclosing the other disorders and isn't getting treated kinda puts herself in a box.

I haven't heard of a social investigation. What does that entail?

What I hear in your post is concern that you might appear spiteful. A lot of us here have had to worry about the same thing. In general, the best strategy is to stay focused on the kids when you talk to the child psychologist. A good one will be very aware that BPD can be disastrous for kids, especially untreated. Explain how the kids were doing back then, how the suicide attempts or threats had an impact on them, how the BPD/PTSD behaviors had an effect on them, how the kids are doing now, how parenting stress seemed to impact your ex wife's BPD symptoms. How you have created a calm and therapeutic environment. Fortunately, you can name the disorder because it has been named by her, in court.

My situation was similar to yours. Once you get that amount of custody, the court is more likely to be your ally. A lot of people here are not so fortunate, if you can call it that. Still, it's good to focus everything on the kids and what you think is best for them.

The black belt approach to family court is to provide solutions to the judge. Your wife says she is doing better and wants more time with her kids. What would you like to see before she earns back that privilege? You could make any increase in parenting time contingent on her agreement to take parenting classes, go through DBT classes, etc. A lot of BPD sufferers will have a hard time regulating emotions and getting themselves through the process of completing court-ordered anything.

That was my strategy. I had full custody in all but name only, and my ex took me back to court. There was so much documentation, including episodes in court before the same judge. I suggested that my ex undergo a psych evaluation, complete anger management classes, and get substance abuse treatment, all within 30 days.

The judge thought that made sense, under the circumstances.

That was the end of everything. Being exposed to so much scrutiny and "losing" was too stressful so my ex decided to go with "victim" and more or less just stood down, putting an end to what had become chronic litigation.

Did you pick the child psychologist? What do you know about him/her?

How are the kids doing? Do they want to spend more time with mom? What is your relationship with them like?

What do you think is best for them?

[LegioXX Victrix]

I your ex has admitted BPD on the stand... .then the basic question to ask in court is what empirical, evidence driven therapy has she completed that proves a successful therapeutic intervention? Trust me any therapist will not want to step into the ring to testify on her behalf. Also any therapist who testifies would have to overcome the therapist / evaluator ethical conflict as well.

Having a custody evaluator is not a bad thing... .stability and security are the issues you need to have at the forefront. There are numerous articles about the damage an untreated BPD can have on children reasearch... .look for a post under my old handle here bellerphon i listed the links in 2014.

Next point it normally takes about two years for example DBT to be successful in treating DBT. Ask her to prove in court the treatment is successful.

You go this just reasearch the issues ask tough questions.

BVW

[Skyhawk]

Nice time-sharing agreement to have as status quo

My experience is that the burden to show progress is on the parent who submits a motion to modify. Status quo can go a long ways. In family law court, a judge is seen as the supreme witness, so a new judge (if that's what you have) is more likely to assume that the status quo is there for good reason, and your ex will need to do a good job explaining what is different. Most parents don't lose that much custody over something like depression. The fact she is not disclosing the other disorders and isn't getting treated kinda puts herself in a box.

I haven't heard of a social investigation. What does that entail?

What I hear in your post is concern that you might appear spiteful. A lot of us here have had to worry about the same thing. In general, the best strategy is to stay focused on the kids when you talk to the child psychologist. A good one will be very aware that BPD can be disastrous for kids, especially untreated. Explain how the kids were doing back then, how the suicide attempts or threats had an impact on them, how the BPD/PTSD behaviors had an effect on them, how the kids are doing now, how parenting stress seemed to impact your ex wife's BPD symptoms. How you have created a calm and therapeutic environment. Fortunately, you can name the disorder because it has been named by her, in court.

My situation was similar to yours. Once you get that amount of custody, the court is more likely to be your ally. A lot of people here are not so fortunate, if you can call it that. Still, it's good to focus everything on the kids and what you think is best for them.

The black belt approach to family court is to provide solutions to the judge. Your wife says she is doing better and wants more time with her kids. What would you like to see before she earns back that privilege? You could make any increase in parenting time contingent on her agreement to take parenting classes, go through DBT classes, etc. A lot of BPD sufferers will have a hard time regulating emotions and getting themselves through the process of completing court-ordered anything.

That was my strategy. I had full custody in all but name only, and my ex took me back to court. There was so much documentation, including episodes in court before the same judge. I suggested that my ex undergo a psych evaluation, complete anger management classes, and get substance abuse treatment, all within 30 days.

The judge thought that made sense, under the circumstances.

That was the end of everything. Being exposed to so much scrutiny and "losing" was too stressful so my ex decided to go with "victim" and more or less just stood down, putting an end to what had become chronic litigation.

Did you pick the child psychologist? What do you know about him/her?

How are the kids doing? Do they want to spend more time with mom? What is your relationship with them like?

What do you think is best for them?

Thanks for the feedback!

A social investigation is conducted by a third party (usually an attorney, but sometimes a mental health professional), and is paid for by one or both parties in the custody dispute. The investigator reviews all court document, police reports, etc. They talk to all parties involved, family members, teachers, therapists, and the kids if old enough. They conduct a home study of each parent. They write a report of all their findings, and make a recommendation to the court as to how they believe the kids would benefit most. In nearly all cases, the court follows that recommendation.

This could work in my favor as long as the investigator is well-versed with BPD. If not, it may backfire. As the party requesting the investigation, I am able to choose who conducts it. The person I am going with was recommended by my attorney, and is already known and trusted by our judge. I spoke to her over the phone and was impressed, although she didn't say much in the interest of remaining impartial. The two others I spoke with offered little to no input and nearly refused to speak with me at all.

The kids (3 and 7) have adjusted pretty well since our separation. I have had my son (7) in therapy for a year now, and his therapist has been a tremendous resource. The kids both enjoy their time with mom, and I try to encourage a healthy relationship between them. Unfortunately, she has no problem telling our son that I 'took' them from her, that I kicked her out of the house and left her homeless, and that I am trying to find them a new mom so they won't see her anymore. My son will openly communicate these things to me, and we can discuss it, but it is frustrating because he wants to believe her. I am unable to defend myself much more than by just saying "I would be upset if I were you, too, but that isn't really how things happened". Fortunately, I have multiple recordings of him saying these things to me, and he also told his therapist that his mom is telling him these things. When I confronted her about it, she told me (in writing) that she will continue to do it, because he deserves to know 'the truth'. This will obviously come up in the social investigation.

My relationship with my daughter is excellent. My son and I butt heads a lot, but overall he is a well adjusted kid, and we have many hobbies that we do together. He does not act out in any way, but I fear that continued manipulation from his mom will lead to problems in the future. My opinion is that timesharing needs to stay as-is until my ex can demonstrate that she has received consistent therapy and has a recommendation from her therapist advising that more time with the kids would be appropriate.

[livednlearned]

Great that there are therapists involved for the kids. When you find a good one, they can really make a difference.

I know how risky it can feel to get a third-party professional involved. That's one of the reasons I came here in the first place, when the attorneys suggested a parenting coordinator.

If the person is ethical and fair and competent, and has a good reputation with the judge, you can strike gold.

A bad one can ruin lives.

It sounds like you have someone who will work with you to keep the kids healthy and safe.

[Skyhawk]

I had the hearing this morning, asking the judge to order the social investigation. The judge agreed that BPD is a whole different animal than depression, and agreed that a social investigation should be done. I was happy to hear him refer to 'BPD' specifically, which means he at least has a basic understanding of the disorder.

The judge also ordered that she pay half, which is unusual for this judge. Typically he orders that it be paid for by the requesting party (me). Overall it went well, but I know backlash will be coming from my ex. She also has the kids today, so I expect my son to be angry with me when I get them back. Typically when she is angry at me, she tells him a bunch of bad stuff about me that later have to undo.

[livednlearned]

That's great to hear your judge understands BPD, and agreed to the social investigation.

Typically when she is angry at me, she tells him a bunch of bad stuff about me that later have to undo.

Do you find there are certain strategies that work better than others?

[formflier]

Did I miss something in here... .what does your L say is the best way forward to preserve status quo?

Let me join LnL in saying nice status quo, it's worth defending.  Offhand, if she wants to change it, let her "prove" it should be changed, vice you proving it shouldn't.  Although once you see her evidence, you may need to dig up "counter-proof".

Those are very general observations.

The more you get BPD and lack of treatment into evidence, the better. 

What can you show that you are actively getting your kids to a much more emotionally healthy place and working on your own parenting skills.  Not suggesting you "need" this, but I AM suggesting that you want to show the judge you are working to better yourself and your kids.   

That would be nice contrast to BPD with no treatment.  Actions speak volumes.

FF

[Skyhawk]

Did I miss something in here... .what does your L say is the best way forward to preserve status quo?

Let me join LnL in saying nice status quo, it's worth defending.  Offhand, if she wants to change it, let her "prove" it should be changed, vice you proving it shouldn't.  Although once you see her evidence, you may need to dig up "counter-proof".

Those are very general observations.

The more you get BPD and lack of treatment into evidence, the better. 

What can you show that you are actively getting your kids to a much more emotionally healthy place and working on your own parenting skills.  Not suggesting you "need" this, but I AM suggesting that you want to show the judge you are working to better yourself and your kids.   

That would be nice contrast to BPD with no treatment.  Actions speak volumes.

FF

My lawyer initially said she could get this thrown out immediately due to a lack of evidence of substantial changes on my ex's part. I declined to do this, and chose to allow it to go forward as long as we get a social investigation. After this decision, my lawyer admitted she agreed it was the right thing, but didn't want to push me into it due to the money involved.

My thinking is that I would rather get the investigation done when this evidence is all less than two years old. If we get it thrown out, we may never have an opportunity to use it again. I can't imagine any psychologist would vouch for her after being involuntarily committed three times in the last two years, burning our sons clothes in the backyard, forcing me to call the police to have her removed from my house, etc. But the further these things get in the past, the less value they have. I can show very clear evidence that the last time she had responsibility for the kids, she was a total mess. She only began to get 'better' after losing the kids. I have no reason to believe she wouldn't slide backwards if faced with actual parenting responsibility again. Side note, her attorney admitted today that she is no longer taking any medication or receiving any type of treatment. They seem to think that this proves she is 'fine'. I imagine that will come back to bite her later.

My house is now just about as 'normal' as anybody else's, other than mom not being around. We have morning and evening routines, chore charts, strict bed times. We play games, watch movies and I do model airplanes with my son. We go to the neighborhood park every week or two, and go to historical sites on occasion. We spend a lot of time learning, and I am teaching him to ask a lot of questions and have a thirst for knowledge. Tonight he said "I learn a lot from you", which made me feel good. I know he doesn't get this from his mom, because she has no desire to learn anything about anything, and has very little education.

I have had my son in therapy since January, which my ex refuses to help pay for. I have a list of books I have studied to help me get my kids through this unscathed. I read - and occasionally post - on forums such as this. I have also been in therapy to help keep my mind right. It's not terribly important, but I also have an excellent job that allows me as much time as I need to handle my home life. My schedule is super flexible, and my boss does not question me when I say I have personal things to take care of. He knows my ex relatively well, and watched her self-destruct, so he knows what I am dealing with.

These are great points, and I appreciate the feedback!

[ForeverDad]

Good that you have your child in counseling.  As my lawyer told me, Courts love counseling.

You're right, incidents can age out of being 'actionable'.  I believe courts can view incidents older than 6 months as 'stale'.  I had a custody evaluation done and the Custody Evaluator, a child psychologist, appeared in court on Trial Day to submit his final report.  My ex had a favorable temp order and so she delayed the end of the divorce process as long as she could.  The report was sealed.  No one knows what was in it, but the preliminary report stated that if Shared Parenting was attempted and it failed then Father should get custody.  Well, we tried SP and as predicted it failed.  I was back in court 1.5 years later seeking custody.  Unfortunately the magistrate ruled the CE report was too old to use.

Unless your Ex can demonstrate she has been in therapy and made realistic progress, things really haven't changed.  Yes, there may be fewer incidents since the last time in court but that can be explained as the distance apart reducing the triggers for unbalanced behaviors.  You see, BPD is a disorder that impacts relationships, the closer the relationship, the more impacted.  The closer you are to a person with BPD, the more triggered the person can get.  However, there has been distance apart as well as passage of time, so there have been fewer triggers for her and therefore she may seem better.  But that doesn't mean the person is recovered or well along in recovery.  Bring the triggers back (increased contact) and she can relapse into prior patterns, especially if there is no attempt at therapy.  Sorry, she can't fix herself by much without objective professional help.  Very, very few can manage that.  BPD pioneer Marsha Linehan revealed she suffered from BPD in her younger years and managed to pioneer recovery therapies.  But I doubt very much that your Ex is another Marsha Linehan.

As you read that article about Ms Linehan, you'll learn that she had to Accept her condition and that she had to Change.  Some of the overriding traits of BPD are Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting.  Has your Ex made substantive progress there?  How can progress be demonstrated?  And if the order does get modified eventually to grant her more parental contact, will there be a simple mechanism to ramp back the changes if she does relapse into prior patterns?  Too often the courts are quick to write in steps for the person to get more contact but reluctant to include ways to suspend or ramp back if a relapse occurs.  They expect you to start over again, taking both time and money.

[formflier]

My thinking is that I would rather get the investigation done when this evidence is all less than two years old. If we get it thrown out, we may never have an opportunity to use it again. I can't imagine any psychologist would vouch for her after being involuntarily committed three times in the last two years, burning our sons clothes in the backyard, forcing me to call the police to have her removed from my house, etc. But the further these things get in the past, the less value they have. 

I like this thinking.  It strikes me as strategic thinking vice focused on solving "just the next thing".

I would begin getting comfortable with the idea of giving up something in order to get something.  So, perhaps submit a "solution" to the judge that says extra time (or perhaps an overnight) after Mom completes and submits to court "a, b,  and c as part of BPD treatment"

Most likely there will be a failure to complete, this will shine a lot of light on it and beg the question "why"?

or

She completes it and actually starts to improve, which is also a good thing.

This could put you in the light of being a champion for improving relationships with parents, rather than being in the position of saying no.

How long do you think this will take?

FF

[Skyhawk]

I like this thinking.  It strikes me as strategic thinking vice focused on solving "just the next thing".

I would begin getting comfortable with the idea of giving up something in order to get something.  So, perhaps submit a "solution" to the judge that says extra time (or perhaps an overnight) after Mom completes and submits to court "a, b,  and c as part of BPD treatment"

Most likely there will be a failure to complete, this will shine a lot of light on it and beg the question "why"?

or

She completes it and actually starts to improve, which is also a good thing.

This could put you in the light of being a champion for improving relationships with parents, rather than being in the position of saying no.

How long do you think this will take?

FF

I have already begun thinking about what I would like to see her do prior to having more time with the kids. My thought is that she needs to find a therapist who specializes in BPD and DBT, be required to make them aware of ALL her issues leading up to this point (including giving them a copy of the findings of the social investigation), and attend therapy as often and for as long as this person deems necessary for her to begin making a recovery. I would also like a written recommendation from this person that they believe she has made enough improvement to begin taking more responsibility for her kids.

Her last therapist said she needed to come in 2x per week, indefinitely. She promptly stopped going entirely. She does not believe she has a problem, so I cannot see her completing anything requiring much more than a couple hours of her time. I don't believe we will actually make it to trial. She will likely crumble during or shortly after the social investigation, when all of her actions begin to catch up with her again.

I would love to see her get better, for all of us. Unfortunately, I just can't see it happening. She totally fell apart when she seemingly had everything, and only 'improved' after losing it all. She has refused to admit that she has a problem throughout the entire thing. I can't see her making actual progress until she acknowledges she still has a problem, and seeks help on her own.

One thing that bothers me tremendously is that as miserable as she is, and how badly she has screwed up her life, she has NEVER asked anybody "what do I need to do to make sure my kids don't turn out like me?". In fact, last week she wrote me a long message about how she wants our kids - especially our daughter - to be like her. This is terrifying to me, and further reinforces that she should have very little control over them.

I anticipate the social investigation will take a month, beginning in January. After that we have to go to mediation again, then possibly trial. In all, I would expect into to drag into April/May.

[ForeverDad]

Be aware that the court may consider the results of a social investigation (or custody evaluation as I know it) as some level of confidential.  Of course the professionals should have access to it.  But beware of passing such reports around.  There were some things my lawyer let me read but not copy.  He explained that years ago some bozo had gotten a good report and without thinking of consequences copied it and distributed it to the neighborhood.  Maybe the guy had been badmouthed, all I know is the court clamped down to avoid that happening again.  I know you won't do something like that but it just shows that we all need to think twice or thrice in so many aspects.  We understand any euphoria you may feel with good reports but we also keep our senses regarding what we do with them.

[formflier]

Is there any way to get the "last therapist" that said 2X per week to submit a statement or records? 

If she crumbles on the way to trial, would it not be to your advantage to continue... .once again... .and force the issue. 

The more specific the requirements that she has to submit to the court, the better.

FF

[Skyhawk]

Is there any way to get the "last therapist" that said 2X per week to submit a statement or records? 

If she crumbles on the way to trial, would it not be to your advantage to continue... .once again... .and force the issue. 

The more specific the requirements that she has to submit to the court, the better.

FF

Her therapists (and mine) should be interviewed as part of this investigation. I was involved heavily in her therapy with both of them, and I believe they will help me tremendously. The first one had her committed involuntarily to the psych wing, and then refused to allow her back into therapy until she completed an intensive outpatient program (which she dropped out of early). The send therapist was witness to most of her completely bizarre and outlandish behavior, including having her IUD removed immediately after our separation because she and her 19year old fiancé (she was 25) wanted to have a baby. That was last October.

If the social investigation comes back in my favor and she decides to drop the case, I would have to file a modification of my own to push the issue. It would cost me much more in attorney fees, but I would almost be forced to do it, especially if the investigation recommends something even more restrictive than it already is. For instance, if it recommends supervised visitation only (as our temporary custody order was prior to the divorce), I couldn't just let that go. In future custody disputes, I would certainly be asked why I didn't push for supervised visitation when the psychologist recommended it.

[ForeverDad]

If the social investigation comes back in my favor and she decides to drop the case, I would have to file a modification of my own to push the issue. It would cost me much more in attorney fees, but I would almost be forced to do it, especially if the investigation recommends something even more restrictive than it already is. For instance, if it recommends supervised visitation only (as our temporary custody order was prior to the divorce), I couldn't just let that go. In future custody disputes, I would certainly be asked why I didn't push for supervised visitation when the psychologist recommended it.

That is certainly a concern to address.  "Father, if you had concerns about your child's welfare, then why didn't you... .?"

And she started the case, after all.  If she decides to drop it after it doesn't look good for her, then it's your option to continue it so the expert opinions and recommendations don't fade from being viewed as actionable.

[Skyhawk]

Posting an update, as I took a break during the holidays.

I have been trying to get the social investigation moving for two weeks now, but it has been delayed due to my ex's 'inability' to pay for it, despite the court order. The investigator, my attorney and I all agreed that given the issues at hand, I will pay her portion in order to get the investigation underway. This will be noted in the report given to the judge, and we will likely have to file for contempt to get her to reimburse me.

The money is the least of my concerns, though. I was able to sit down and talk with the investigator for about an hour last week. She seems very well-versed in BPD, and the affect it can have on children and coparents. She believes my ex will drop this case before the investigation is ever completed. My attorney said if it is dropped, we should file our own modification, using her instability (and the findings of the social investigation) as grounds to ask for supervised visitation only.

I believe my ex is feeling the pressure, and is starting to act out again. I believe on some level she will sabotage herself, like she did during our divorce. She has begun telling my son bad things about me again, after several weeks without it. Today I picked the kids up from her and found that she had dyed our three year old daughter's hair pink. I am so embarrassed, because I am responsible for her and I am the one who has to take her out in public, to the doctor, sitter, etc. That being said, I know it will only help my case in the end.

[formflier]

I believe my ex is feeling the pressure, and is starting to act out again. I believe on some level she will sabotage herself, like she did during our divorce. 

Can you prove or document the "bad things" she has said about you?

The quote above should be part of your strategy.  pwBPD don't do well under pressure, especially when that pressure is a light shining on their behavior.

Good job finding a way to move forward.

Is there a way for you to "contest" your wife trying to drop the investigation if she tries to, rather than having to file your own modification?

FF

[Skyhawk]

Can you prove or document the "bad things" she has said about you?

The quote above should be part of your strategy.  pwBPD don't do well under pressure, especially when that pressure is a light shining on their behavior.

Good job finding a way to move forward.

Is there a way for you to "contest" your wife trying to drop the investigation if she tries to, rather than having to file your own modification?

FF

I have nearly two dozen audio recordings of my son repeating and questioning me about things his mom is saying to him about me. These will not be admissible in court, but they can and will be considered by the social investigator. Additionally, my son has told his therapist that his mom is saying these things. Lastly, when asked, she told me in writing that she will continue doing these things because the kids have a right to know 'the truth'. She also said (again in writing) that she has 15 more years to make the kids resent me.

The investigator and my attorney have said that since the investigation has been court ordered, we could technically move forward with it even if the case is dropped. The difficulty would be that my ex would be very unlikely to participate. Of course, that would only make her look even worse in the near future when we file our own modification.

[Thunderstruck]

I'm a bad example... .Our social investigation was ordered in July of 2014 and we still don't have a report.   

We did it all though. Home visits, drug tests, interviews (with DH, uBPDbm, and SD each individually, phone interview with me and I don't know who else), psych tests (DH did a substance abuse test, domestic violence test, and something like the MMPI) plus loads and loads of documentation (3.5 years worth!).

[Skyhawk]

I'm a bad example... .Our social investigation was ordered in July of 2014 and we still don't have a report.   

We did it all though. Home visits, drug tests, interviews (with DH, uBPDbm, and SD each individually, phone interview with me and I don't know who else), psych tests (DH did a substance abuse test, domestic violence test, and something like the MMPI) plus loads and loads of documentation (3.5 years worth!).

This is concerning. If you don't mind me asking, what is holding it up so long if all of the legwork is done? What state are you in?

My attorney has handled at least a dozen of these, and the social investigator has likely done hundreds. Both have told me 30-45 days is normal, but 90 days is possible if one or both parents is uncooperative.

[ForeverDad]

With this being a peer support and resource site, we are limited in what we can offer.  Apparently a social investigation is a term not used in most states.  We're more familiar with the term custody evaluation.  Even then that in-depth review can be termed a psychological evaluation in some places.  Most often, though, psych eval is limited to administering respected tests (such as the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, MMPI or MMPI-2, and others) and not how the person's mental perspectives impact parenting and related responsibilities.  A custody evaluation, evidently too a social investigation, involves a more in depth investigation and evaluation.

I've read where Florida doesn't use the word Custody and so maybe that's why some places use Social instead.

Most here report that their custody evaluations can take 6 to 12 months and many thousands of dollars, a few longer even longer and costlier.  Thunderstruck, now in her fourth year, is our most extreme case.  A few more years and the poor kid will have aged out of the system and become an adult.

I was one who somehow managed to get an excellent child psychologist, one time he was anxious to leave a session to give a lecture at the local university.  He was definitely qualified, not the type Thunderstruck got stuck with.  He was more than good, he was relatively inexpensive ($3K versus $8K-$10K or more many have to pay) and his report was concise (about 11 pages versus the book others can write).  He was allotted 4 months but he had to ask for an additional month since my ex played games with him.  She's bilingual (also was a certified legal and medical interpreter) but because she chose to write in Spanish he had to find a translator for her test answers.

So everything is "it depends"... .it depends on your state, the quality and experience of your local evaluators or investigators, the local fee scales, etc.  For example, you don't pick the cheapest investigator.  You want the most reputable and experienced.  In my case my evaluator turned out to be the least expensive but he was also the one my lawyer said the court trusted the most.

Also be the reasonable and problem solver parent.  Yes, you can express complaints about your spouse but make sure they're valid, meaningful ones about substantive issues.  When I first met my CE he said half the outcome will be based on the history, which parent had the most parenting time historically.  That was scary since my spouse had quit work when our child was born.  Well, by the time he wrote his initial report his observations had changed his outlook.  "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can... .Mother should immediately lose her temporary custody... .If Shared Parenting is attempted and fails then Father should have custody... ."

[Skyhawk]

As tough as this process has been for me, reading that response really makes me feel for some of you. It sounds like my situation is very similar to yours in terms of cost. I interviewed three social investigators, and in the end chose the one my attorney recommended. She seemed genuinely concerned about my kids, rather than the other two who viewed it as a business transaction. She also has a very good relationship with our judge. As a bonus, she was by far the least expensive.

She will be doing a variety of personality inventories and other psych tests on each of us.

I am concerned about appearing spiteful by bringing up relatively minor inconsistencies in my ex's behavior, but I think it is important as it shows persistent impulsiveness and instability. Since we are no longer married, I am not involved in her day to day life and only have knowledge of the things she wants me to see. I addressed this concern with the SI at our first meeting, and she seemed to understand where I was coming from.

She also told me that my ex's direct impact on our kids is not her only consideration.  She is concerned about how her behavior (threats, intimidation, parental alienation, etc.) are affecting my ability to parent our children. I think this will help me considerably, as there is a documented history of her purposely interfering with my parenting. An an example, my son regularly tells me that he thinks it's my fault that he doesn't get to see his mom very much. When questioned, he says mom told him that she wants to see them more, but I won't let her. She tells him that she didn't want to leave the house or get divorced, but I kicked her out. She doesn't tell him that she treatened me with divorce for a year prior and left the house voluntarily far before the court kicked her out, or that she signed our consent final judgement willingly. So far he is not lashing out at me or having behavior problems, but he is clearly resentful of me for it. I worry about our relationship a few years down the road if her manipulation is allowed to continue.

[Thunderstruck]

This is concerning. If you don't mind me asking, what is holding it up so long if all of the legwork is done? What state are you in?

My attorney has handled at least a dozen of these, and the social investigator has likely done hundreds. Both have told me 30-45 days is normal, but 90 days is possible if one or both parents is uncooperative.

That's how long they should take. Like I said, I'm a bad example. Our (I tend to use the generic term CE) had personal issues that started right when our investigation was wrapping up. She went through her own divorce, she had a stalker, her son had medical issues, she almost lost her business. Lots of excuses, no report. It's a shame, she had high ratings prior but we just had bad bad timing. By this point she probably thinks "Eh, they've been making 50/50 work for years now, might as well keep it status quo". Or she doesn't want to deliver because of how badly she has screwed up with our case. She could probably get into big trouble if she said yeah mom isn't a stable parent but I waited 3.5 years to provide a recommendation and now SD is a teenager and damage has already been done.

But we're an anomaly. Don't take much stock in our bad experience, however if you want to ask about any of the tests or forms I can try to help answer. There is a thread on here somewhere where many members posted their experiences with custody evals. It definitely "depends" on the evaluator, judge, how the lawyers spin it, etc etc.

[livednlearned]

There is a thread on here somewhere where many members posted their experiences with custody evals.

Maybe this one?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=74287.msg727115#msg727115

[Thunderstruck]

Maybe this one?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=74287.msg727115#msg727115

Yep, that's the one I was thinking of!  Thanks LnL!

[Skyhawk]

Thank you for the link to that thread. There is some very good information in there, and it seems the outcome of the evaluation can vary greatly.

I went ahead and paid her half to get the investigation moving. I doubt I will ever see that money again, even though she is in contempt for not paying it herself.

The investigator sent each of us a very long (~100 question) questionnaire, essay style, about the circumstances of our divorce. It is very detailed, asking about our childhood, relationships with parents and siblings, medical history, how we met, details of our relationship, and concerns about our timesharing agreement and the other parent specifically. I was very surprised at how thorough it was, taking me around ten hours to complete. There is also a separate, shorter, questionnaire about each child specifically.

She also immediately reached out to anybody we wanted her to speak with as 'references', sending them each a questionnaire as well. I believe she will have a phone interview with each later on.

I am so far impressed with her eagerness to get this moving, and I believe she genuinely feels the kids will be better off if we can get this completed and back to the attorneys quickly. I am also still nervous about it, as my ex can be incredibly manipulative. I keep wondering if the amount of evidence I have will be enough to counteract whatever BS she will say. So far, so good though!

[Skyhawk]

Update.

The social investigation finished up about a month ago. In all, I am impressed with how well the investigator got a feel for our situation and the difficulties the kids and I are facing in dealing with my ex.

Her recommendation to the court was a slight change (not increase) in my ex's timesharing, and use of a parenting coordinator. She recommends that my ex be required to undergo a full psych eval with both a psychologist and psychiatrist, begin DBT therapy and provide a home where they each have their own bedroom. She will be required to do these things and demonstrate a minimum of six months stability as determined by her therapist before she can start getting limited overnight visits. I will continue having sole parental responsibility indefinitely.

Her main concerns were the innappropriate and false information regarding our litigation that my ex was sharing with our son, and the fact that she continues to refuse any type of treatment for her disorder, despite the recommendations of several therapists and psychiatrists. The investigator tried very hard to find some evidence of physical abuse to justify further limiting her time with the kids, but it just wasn't there. She did tell me that she does not believe my ex will comply with these requirements, which will make it very difficult for her to cause more legal problems in the future.

Overall, the process was drawn out and tedious, but the results were as I expected them to be. It's unfortunate that we had to go through all of this just to maintain the status quo, but I at least have a professional recommendation backing me up now. My ex is still pushing forward with her modification, and we are set to go to mediation next month.

[livednlearned]

She did tell me that she does not believe my ex will comply with these requirements

That's exactly what happened in my case with a small modification. The judge agreed it was reasonable for N/BPDx to go through a second psychiatric evaluation, plus substance abuse treatment, parenting classes, and anger management. There was a 30 day deadline to show compliance.

When that deadline came and went, we filed a motion for sole custody and it was granted.

which will make it very difficult for her to cause more legal problems in the future.

I hope this is true, Skyhawk.

ex is still pushing forward with her modification, and we are set to go to mediation next month.

How does mediation work where you live?

Is this more to convince her L that there is no real path forward for what she's seeking?

[ForeverDad]

It is good to enter mediation in good faith.  Who knows, she might agree to reasonable terms however unlikely it seems now.  When there is no maneuvering room left, she may cave.  Of course, if that happens, mediation was a success... .even if afterward she cries and complains how unfair it all was.   Remember, Blaming and Blame Shifting are a virtual certainty with BPD.

Crucial perspective to have is that you don't have to reach a mediated settlement.  For many (most) here mediation failed, mediation is generally an early step in a case and generally the ex is still too Entitled and too in Denial to truly negotiate.  My court ordered 3 mediation sessions immediately after the temp order was issued.  It failed in the first session, we didn't even try the two other sessions.  We just went back to court and went on to the next steps.

Repeat, mediation is an attempt.  If she doesn't deal with reality then you or the mediator can declare mediation a failure and proceed to the next step.  Maybe, just maybe, a later hearing or evaluation report will put a crack in her Entitlement or World View.