Interpreting her words

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Seems as though I've been reading some posts and replies where the general idea is one of a non thinking for their BPD in interpreting their words or actions.

Here's an example:  I think he was... .<fill in blank>.

I have to say that every time I run across a post where a non is engaging in what I would call magical thinking on behalf of their BPD it strikes me as dangerous for the non in the false sense it can give of thinking they are with someone who is reliable, consistent, and knowable and capable of the actual generous (more than likely) acts and thoughts they are being seen as capable of.

1) I don't see how anyone could ever feel confident in knowing anyone else's mindset, especially that of a BPD.

2) This seems to be the crux of this idea of being in a one-way relationship, where the non fills in the blanks on behalf of their absent (emotionally, physically) BPD. "Oh, he's just afraid of the intimacy." being an example of such a generous interpretation of their supposedly true intent or actions.

3) It can also short circuit the demands of a bigger conversation/discussion that needs to be had between the non and BPD. Such a convo could start off: "What did you mean by what you said when you said, 'XXXXXXX?'"

I dunno. I'm just trying to throw out this idea that thinking on a BPDs behalf, instead pressing them for answers (which they could very well lie about anyway), is a dangerous exercise that can truly wind up flummoxing a non.

Thoughts?

J

[Jeffree]

Seems as though I've been reading some posts and replies where the general idea is one of a non thinking for their BPD in interpreting their words or actions.

Here's an example:  I think he was... .<fill in blank>.

I have to say that every time I run across a post where a non is engaging in what I would call magical thinking on behalf of their BPD it strikes me as dangerous for the non in the false sense it can give of thinking they are with someone who is reliable, consistent, and knowable and capable of the actual generous (more than likely) acts and thoughts they are being seen as capable of.

1) I don't see how anyone could ever feel confident in knowing anyone else's mindset, especially that of a BPD.

2) This seems to be the crux of this idea of being in a one-way relationship, where the non fills in the blanks on behalf of their absent (emotionally, physically) BPD. "Oh, he's just afraid of the intimacy." being an example of such a generous interpretation of their supposedly true intent or actions.

3) It can also short circuit the demands of a bigger conversation/discussion that needs to be had between the non and BPD. Such a convo could start off: "What did you mean by what you said when you said, 'XXXXXXX?'"

I dunno. I'm just trying to throw out this idea that thinking on a BPDs behalf, instead pressing them for answers (which they could very well lie about anyway), is a dangerous exercise that can truly wind up flummoxing a non.

Thoughts?

J

[Skip]

This is an advanced board (as opposed to crisis which is more raw emotion), so let's take this on at a high level.

Forget BPD for a minute. Let's consider any mostly healthy relationship.

Is it beneficial to interpret what our partner is communicating? Or should we take them literally and adopt a life philosophy that if they can't express themselves, that's on them.

An emotionally intelligent male reads his partner (and true for the other sex, but this was asked in a male context) and takes it on himself to understand people in the context his entire experience with them.

If my new date tells me, for the first time, that she loves me - and then at dinner later that night, she tells a casual friend she loves them, she loves calamari, she loves the Dallas Cowboys, she loves Meryl Streep, she loves her boss, and she loves old Jim Nabor's albums - you can bet that I'm going to wait for more context on the "I love you" statement before I buy her a house.   

This is reading people. People often say things in ways that can not be taken literally. There are also times when we need to take what is said very literally. Knowing when is emotional intelligence.

Some people read others well... .some are complete bumbles... .its a skill and invaluable.

OK. For someone with BPD traits - highly emotional, prone to overstatement (both positive and negative), very defensive... .

1) I don't see how anyone could ever feel confident in knowing anyone else's mindset, especially that of a BPD.

Reading someone has this risk, for sure. It's hard and its an ongoing process to learn to read someone and we need to be careful not to get over our skis.

2) This seems to be the crux of this idea of being in a one-way relationship, where the non fills in the blanks on behalf of their absent (emotionally, physically) BPD. "Oh, he's just afraid of the intimacy." being an example of such a generous interpretation of their supposedly true intent or actions.

This might discribe the difference between reading someone and misreading them or expecting them to be understood according to some "BPD script".

3) It can also short circuit the demands of a bigger conversation/discussion that needs to be had between the non and BPD. Such a convo could start off: "What did you mean by what you said when you said, 'XXXXXXX?'"

Absolutely. Reading someone includes asking this type of question at times when such a statement isn't inflammatory or the person speaking in emotional overdrive.

Good discussion!

[Meili]

Seems as though I've been reading some posts and replies where the general idea is one of a non thinking for their BPD in interpreting their words or actions.

I think that we see most of this happen when people are in crisis. They are grasping for something rational in response to an irrational, emotional situation. They are reading the situation through their own lenses. And, as Skip pointed out, are trying to read the situation.

The downside to this is that when in crisis mode, we are also emotionally aroused and not thinking as clearly (or clearly at all in some cases). Our ability to read the person/situation is greatly diminished at that point.

While I greatly discourage the practice of trying to guess what another person is thinking, learning about Borderline Personality Disorder and and how the mind of a pwBPD works to arrive at some possible conclusion can help the non reach a more neutral state of emotion and they will therefore be better able to practice Mindfulness, and thinking with a Wisemind should be a goal for all of us. Being able to assess a situation and not allow either our emotional mind or our logical mind to control provides us the best chance of navigating stressful situations and healing from past wounds.

[once removed]

i usually stay away from "pwBPD are like children" comparisons... .but:

like children, people with BPD traits over express themselves. often times they have difficulty communicating the bottom line, the underlying feeling (they might accuse or ascribe motives instead, for example). i dont think a romantic relationship should be the same thing as parenting, of course, but we would not ignore or dismiss, or press for answers, with our children, because we love them and we want to better understand where they are coming from. validation... .listening with empathy... .these are skills, they build relationships, and they work with anyone.

i did a lot of dismissing my exes very real concerns. that shuts things down quickly. its destructive. it doesnt yield trust. often times, a person, any person, just needs to feel heard.

its also true that when we are in a crisis state its hard to read another person, and sometimes we hear what we want to hear (which is different than day to day communication and building trust).

lets say this is me and youre a fly on the wall.

pwBPD traits: "i dont want anything serious, i just want to date and have fun"
me: "im gonna go ahead and keep pushing for exclusivity"

later... .

me: "she strung me along and then cheated on me"

what would you tell me?