Do we really know they are borderline and not just mean?

[learnedtolive660]

I read the boards and wonder if they are all borderline or some are just mean? There are mean people. I will call my sibling Art.

So Art has spent his life being passive aggressive and aggressive with me, getting angry for insane reasons and cutting me out of his life. On and off, on and off like a light switch. Then he comes over without warning with gifts for my daughters, no apilogy, and wants to forget it all and have a a relationship.

 Like the doormat I was, I took him back with no questions. Besides it made my mom happy. My Dad too. See, he is their favorite, the only boy successful and charming.

One day I was home cooking dinner and the doorbell rang and it was a cop. He showed some heartfelt letters I had written to Art, some with a little anger in them but no threats in them and the cop said I had to stop harassing him or he could get a restraining order on me.

Really? The letters had been sent after he had ghosted me again, but there was nothing in them that was more than a plea to understand why he did this over and over.

After crying, my husband came home and made me promise to cut him off. But my mother called in tears and told me she would cut me off of I cut her GC off. She said to let it go, no harm had come. I know he is a very sensitive boy. She calls him a boy.

So only he can be sensitive?

To make a long story short, this pattern continued, including the cops coming over on his behalf and an attempt at a restraining order which was denied but the attemp really hurt me. I cried in front of the whole family. Embarrassing.

Borderline or mean? I am not sure. Art has tons of friends. He is kind to most people except for me and a few girlfriends who he was secretly dating at the same time. He is cheating on both last I heard. I stay out of it.

I think he gets crazy when he is mad but I don't see him as sick. I see him as a plain, sane bully, at least to me.

So I finally went no contact and went to a different forum than this self help forum first and guess what? He used a very distinctive user name that I knew was him and I shook as I read his condemnation. He talked about his borderline sister, ME! He called ME borderline! I

i was shocked. In his rambling post he said I stalked him and so he had to try getting a restraining order on me.

I'm so done with him and have to go no contact with almost all family. He is such a favorite, always the one to put on a good act if somebody is sick etc. His whole neighborhood thinks he is this great, handsome, succesful man. He lives with our parents and  takes care of them. So he says. Maybe he does.

He expressed sadness that his sister is so mean to him on his FB page until he suddenly blocked me.

You say borderline, I say evil bit no one believe except my husband and kids. Oh and I do have Co workers and friends and a few cousins who get it.

I believe in the Bible and that helps. I think Art is more being affected by Satan than sick.

I am 42 and heis 45 and I will never talk to him again. Husband and I are moving across the country so I can heal from this. I think I have PTSD. Thanks for listening.

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi learnedtolive660,
I have a sister who sounds similar to your brother.  She is very self centered and uses the silent treatment on folks when she feels they do not think the same as her.

After crying, my husband came home and made me promise to cut him off. But my mother called in tears and told me she would cut me off of I cut her GC off. She said to let it go, no harm had come. I know he is a very sensitive boy. She calls him a boy.

So only he can be sensitive?

It sounds like you feel your mom is trying to make excuses for his behavior or trying to treat him like a victim that needs the “rescuing” of others, and/or infantilizing him thus contributing to the dysfunctional dynamics?

It is pretty common that the dysfunction of a family causes the whole family system dynamic to shift roles in ways that enable dysfucntion to continue and cause member to play out different roles.

What I am saying is that just because your family system may be set up to accomodate your brothers dysfunction, does not mean this is what is best for him or anyone else.  Yet, it also means that it is not just about your brother, but everyone participates in their own way towards existing dynamics.  

When we try to seperate from the family systems “false beliefs” it causes a shift and friction to existing dysfunctional patterns and often the person seeking to “do better” may be identified in the family as a “problem.”

I’m going to stop there because I am not certain how articulate I am being. (I struggle at times with writing).

My point is... .
It is complicated
Your brother can be both with BPD AND mean
BPD does not excuse his behvaior
BPD is not a reason for others to expect to get treated poorly or less than
(Actually, it is a very good reason to learn good boundaries)
Maybe read around here.  A good place to start could be “Karpman’s Drama Triangle.”  Or maybe read the workshops on boundaries.  (Boundaries are harder and take years to get a good hold of... .imho... .not as simpke as they may appear)

Hopefully something is helpful!

PS. I personally have felt the need to go NC with my sis.  It has been over 10 years since we last spoke.  I do not regret this.  It is however a sad reality.  However, I felt her behavior became progressively poor towards me.  I was unable to find any way to use boundaries on her as I could not escape from my home, the phone, etc... .  so the only way I saw to minimize the conflict she was expressing on me was to not try interacting with her.  I tried to have a relationship with her, using boundaries yet, it did not work.  She would not allow me to deescalate and disconnect from her when she was dysregulated.  I do not feel it is ok for me to interact with persons who feel it is ok to subject me and my child to their abusive ways.

[Turkish]

Sun0 says what I would: that it's possible that he is BPD and also mean. Let's just take it that he is mean. You might find something helpful from the Karpman Triangle article and discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle


Aside from that,  he called you BPD. Where did he come up with that?

He also tried to serve you with a RO. People don't typically do that,  do they? That must have been confusing and hurtful to say the least. Based upon what we've seen on the romantic partner boards, respect the fact that he's gone to the cops.  We've seen members get into legal trouble by not taking this as a "do not contact me" message,  as sad and invalid as it may be. 

T

[Notwendy]

Aside from that,  he called you BPD. Where did he come up with that?


I don't know if my BPD mother has used the term BPD, but she did call up several of my relatives and told them I was "mentally disturbed" . It was embarrassing to me to think some of them possibly believed her. I found out because she called people on my husband's side and they called him to see what was going on and he told me. ( his FOO knows she has a disorder, but I think she has convinced hers that I do). When I confronted her about saying that, she denied it.

She has a friend who has some issues and when she talks about her, she discusses the things that she does. Then she describes her friend's husband as co-dependent and describes the things my father did. I have no idea what is real or what is projection.

To me, the behavior of a person speaks for themselves. BPD or not ,meanness or if you think it is Satan- whatever the cause, we don't have to tolerate these kinds of behaviors. Your brother taking your personal letters to the police and serving you is bizarre enough to think something isn't "right " here. You don't have to have contact with someone who does that if you don't want to.

I have also decided to let my own behavior speak for itself. If I try to defend myself to my mother's FOO, it is a her word against mine situation and I don't know if they would believe me anyway. I rarely have contact with them since they don't really speak to me ( after she painted me black to them) but I do see them at larger family events and have rare contact. I just maintain a polite composure. They will come to their own conclusions anyway.

What your mother has done is classic triangulation and enabling- protecting your brother from the consequences of his behavior. When there is a person in a family, the whole family can take on compensatory behaviors. I suspect your mother has been enabling him and expects you to do this too- which you have. Don't blame yourself- I did it too and still sometimes do with BPD mother, because this is the pattern expected of me in my FOO. But we don't have to continue this as adults if we choose not to.

The Bible says to be a good person and to help others, but enabling isn't helping. You are not being deliberately mean when you choose to not enable. You can establish boundaries and peace for yourself and choose to not have contact with your brother if you do not want to. Unfortunately in dysfunctional families, this may upset other members like your mother. She may make threats, but you can hold this boundary.

[learnedtolive660]

Hi. Sorry I took this long to respond and thank you to all.

I took the whole restraining order deal to mean I should not contact him again. I didn't usually contact him anyway. He did. So I felt so humiliated that I hid from him even more. After the restraining order fiasco, HE contacted ME again. This was months later, and he droped by as if nothing had ever happened. When I brought it up, he said to let it go, that we are blood and would not let me talk about it again so I shut down and lied and told him I had to pick up my daughter and he left, buthe would call me sometimes even though I sometes didn't answer. My Mom was the only reason I didn't cut him off sooner.

I started reading this forum. I am so glad O found it. I learned that Mom is mean too. Or borderline. Whatever. I was shocked to learn that often the sick or mean person diagnoses the well person with the disorder he fears that HE has. I actually looked up borderline forum when he said I had it on another forum. I was not sure what it was. It was interesting to find out that the family scapegoat is usually the healthiest member. I would not callyself healthy yet, but I will get there. I have souch support from my husband and his family.

I am grateful that my husband got a job so far away. Nobody in my FOO knows we are leaving. I may not tell them.  I need to stop living this crazy nightmare called my FOO.

I am happy that there is a safe place to vent of anything happens again.