Fighting, fighting, and more fighting

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Well, shame on me.  Got into it pretty bad with my H.  We are spring cleaning a lot of stuff.  I've been posting on these different selling apps.  Been working great.  They caution against fraud, meeting in public places, etc.  I had an offer on our motorcycle ramp/jack.  I sold them.  I was a little hesitant to give out my address so I talked to my H.  Out of nowhere, he bulldozes the conversation.  Starts yelling about how I'm freaking out about the pick up, how he's sick of hearing me ask about what to do with the pick up, how I didn't have a problem before when he had buyers come over to the house.  I told him I was just going by what the selling apps cautioned me on.  How I didn't want strangers coming to the house.  He asked what was he supposed to do, box them up and tell them to stick them up their a**.  I said okay, I won't ask anymore, I will take care of it.  He was still pissed.

I had another buyer for a stereo.  I took matters into my own hands.  Agreed to a price, set up a location to drop off the item.  I go home for lunch to get the stereo.  He's there.  Asks what am I doing home.  Told him I'm here for lunch and I sold the stereo.  I said that he was at the library and I told him that I would drop it off.  My H proceeded to ask if it was a man or woman.  I honestly wasn't sure, so I said I think a woman.  That was all I needed to say.  My H blows up and says that I kept saying him and he so why would I say it's a woman.  I said I'm honestly not sure, I think it is.  That point I had already tripped and fallen flat on my face.  He said I was lying and that was pretty much it.  No way for me to recover from that goof.  I think I said woman because I thought he would get pissed if he thought I was meeting some random man.  I didn't realize he asked because he was going to give me a ride.  I was still pretty upset because we had just talked shortly before I went home.  I kind of wished I had waited to go home.

He's screaming at me in front of his brother and the kids.  Decided that everyone would know that I was a liar and what I'm doing is wrong.  I had passed the ability to calm the situation because I was getting angry.  I continued to get everything ready to go make the sale.  He continued on with rant.  Things escalated when other things happened and he ended up storming out.  He called after he left.  Continued yelling and screaming about how I'm the worse person.  I said I was sorry for lying.  Then he said "FU you lying bit**"... I snapped... bad.  I screamed back FU, I can't talk to you right now and hung up on him.  I didn't answer when he called back.  Waited until I calmed down and sent him a message apologizing for the way I acted, I felt bad, he had a right to be upset about me lying.  This was his reply.  Apologize for the foul language.

I don't give a sh**, be sorry. I told you I'm sick of your lies. For the record, I only asked if it was a man because I was going to give you a ride if it was. Your the one who was freaked out about someone murdering you if they came to the house, but your fine meeting some guy alone. Yeah, FU. I told you, if you lie, this is what you get. The more you lie, the longer it lasts. So you can suck my co**. FU. And don't touch that F**in money, it better all be in the safe when I get home.

You also better decide how important lying is to you. Your about to lose your family over it. Keep pushing me and see if I'm bluffing. I F**in detest liars. So FU you lying F**in bit**.

Any suggestions?

[Frankee]

Well, shame on me.  Got into it pretty bad with my H.  We are spring cleaning a lot of stuff.  I've been posting on these different selling apps.  Been working great.  They caution against fraud, meeting in public places, etc.  I had an offer on our motorcycle ramp/jack.  I sold them.  I was a little hesitant to give out my address so I talked to my H.  Out of nowhere, he bulldozes the conversation.  Starts yelling about how I'm freaking out about the pick up, how he's sick of hearing me ask about what to do with the pick up, how I didn't have a problem before when he had buyers come over to the house.  I told him I was just going by what the selling apps cautioned me on.  How I didn't want strangers coming to the house.  He asked what was he supposed to do, box them up and tell them to stick them up their a**.  I said okay, I won't ask anymore, I will take care of it.  He was still pissed.

I had another buyer for a stereo.  I took matters into my own hands.  Agreed to a price, set up a location to drop off the item.  I go home for lunch to get the stereo.  He's there.  Asks what am I doing home.  Told him I'm here for lunch and I sold the stereo.  I said that he was at the library and I told him that I would drop it off.  My H proceeded to ask if it was a man or woman.  I honestly wasn't sure, so I said I think a woman.  That was all I needed to say.  My H blows up and says that I kept saying him and he so why would I say it's a woman.  I said I'm honestly not sure, I think it is.  That point I had already tripped and fallen flat on my face.  He said I was lying and that was pretty much it.  No way for me to recover from that goof.  I think I said woman because I thought he would get pissed if he thought I was meeting some random man.  I didn't realize he asked because he was going to give me a ride.  I was still pretty upset because we had just talked shortly before I went home.  I kind of wished I had waited to go home.

He's screaming at me in front of his brother and the kids.  Decided that everyone would know that I was a liar and what I'm doing is wrong.  I had passed the ability to calm the situation because I was getting angry.  I continued to get everything ready to go make the sale.  He continued on with rant.  Things escalated when other things happened and he ended up storming out.  He called after he left.  Continued yelling and screaming about how I'm the worse person.  I said I was sorry for lying.  Then he said "FU you lying bit**"... I snapped... bad.  I screamed back FU, I can't talk to you right now and hung up on him.  I didn't answer when he called back.  Waited until I calmed down and sent him a message apologizing for the way I acted, I felt bad, he had a right to be upset about me lying.  This was his reply.  Apologize for the foul language.

I don't give a sh**, be sorry. I told you I'm sick of your lies. For the record, I only asked if it was a man because I was going to give you a ride if it was. Your the one who was freaked out about someone murdering you if they came to the house, but your fine meeting some guy alone. Yeah, FU. I told you, if you lie, this is what you get. The more you lie, the longer it lasts. So you can suck my co**. FU. And don't touch that F**in money, it better all be in the safe when I get home.

You also better decide how important lying is to you. Your about to lose your family over it. Keep pushing me and see if I'm bluffing. I F**in detest liars. So FU you lying F**in bit**.

Any suggestions?

[babyducks]

Frankee,

You did nothing wrong.   You didn't make any mistakes.    You are not responsible for his outburst.    What you did and said was normal.   Ordinary.    Human.    It's perfectly acceptable to miss-speak, get confused about who was buying what, to be "honestly unsure" about things.   You did not 'goof up'.

You did nothing wrong.   You can go home when you want, be nervous about meeting strangers,  and yeah you know what, you can occasionally tell little white lies.   We all do it.

This is abuse.

What you are describing is verbal and emotional abuse.    The emotional abuse is the threat to lose your family.

I would suggest a zero tolerance policy to any kind of verbal or emotional abuse.   This is not okay.    Period.    Point blank.

You are not responsible for his abuse.

You are responsible to remove yourself from it.   To leave the room,  exit the conversation, draw a boundary of I Will Not Participate In Conversations That Contain Name Calling and Obscenities.   

When he says 'box them up and stick them up',... .you say okay I won't ask and you leave.   leave the room,  leave the house,   leave the conversation.

When he says "you are lying"   you say I won't have this conversation this way right now and you exit.

When he starts screaming at you in front of his brother and your kids, you say "This is not okay"  and you leave.

When he calls after he stormed out of the house, you don't answer the phone.    You don't apologize (for lying) until the mood between the both of you is calm.   

When he goads you until you snap,  you don't apologize until the mood is calm... .and then you ONLY take responsibility for not handling things as well as you would have liked.   

You don't apologize to calm or soothe him, because that is responding to his control and coercion.

If he had the right to be upset about you lying than he also had the responsibility to handle it like a mature and caring adult in a committed relationship.   

This is abuse Frankee,  and abuse is always,  always about power and control.   Who has all the power in your relationship right now?

my suggestion is Do Not Participate In Abusive Conversations.

'ducks

[Frankee]

That's what a normal human being should say.  What really made me upset in the first place was my first conversation is I was completely blind sided by him blowing up.  I know whatever was going on with him wasn't my fault.  I was simply trying to keep him informed of what was going on and people wanting to stop by the house.  We have two small children.  I wasn't concerned about being murdered or nonsense, but you can't trust people on the internet.  He got so upset that I was "freaking out" about the pick up.  It's not like I'm going to just hand out our address like candy to anyone who wants to buy something.

I think what I am feeling right now is shell shock.  Still feeling mentally clouded by what happened.  It's like the solution is right in front of my face and I'm having trouble grasping what to do next.  According to him, I'm never allowed to lie to him.  At all, even white lies.  Once I made the mistake of saying what I did, it turned into, I'm up to something, I'm not telling the truth, why am I dressed this way, etc.

Right now, it feels the power and control is in his favor.  I know he feels that how he reacted was justified because I lied.  I already know that tonight isn't going to be good.  He's going to be still pissed.  What is even more frustrating is that I know the source of his rage isn't because of me.  I was just the excuse he was looking for to word vomit onto someone and let someone else feel his pain of whatever was going on.  Even more screwed up, is if I try to "psycho therapy" him, he will deny everything except the fact that he acted the way he did because of me. 

What he did was abuse.  Absolutely uncalled for.  My first instinct is to soothe him so I won't have to deal with the problem or have to deal with more rage when he comes home tonight.  I already know that's a bad choice and a band-aid on a much bigger issue of the fact that it was a verbal and emotional attack and threat.  If I pacify or soothe him, he will think that he was right and I deserved it.  He calls me smug, like I'm in the right, like I'm not doing anything wrong.  I can't act "normal" on this.  It was too severe of an attack to just blow away.

The things you suggested to do are great things to do.  I failed to do any of it this time.  I was getting to the point where I was focused on not screaming back at him and asking him what the heck was his problem.  It took a lot of self control to just stay calm in that manner.  Of course I lost it when I was on the phone with him.  I hate how I react like that.

I'm hoping I will have clarity and find footing on sturdy ground before I have to face him tonight.  I'm not worried about physical abuse.  Idk.  Sometimes I think a slap to the face would be better than some of the things he said.  Bruises heal, emotional bruises sometimes never do.

My dilemma.  If he is still enraged and decides to carry on the issue tonight, what to do then.  I've tried the "lets talk when we've calmed down" suggestion and it's always led to him becoming more upset.  The kids will be asleep, I won't be able to leave the house, and I need to be able to be aware of myself to where it doesn't escalate and he starts yelling.  Of course if he does, I know it's not my fault if I am doing my part to remain calm.  We don't have a big house and limited on what rooms I can exit too.  Stressed and dreading tonight.

[Frankee]

You did nothing wrong.   You didn't make any mistakes.    You are not responsible for his outburst.    What you did and said was normal.   Ordinary.    Human.    It's perfectly acceptable to miss-speak, get confused about who was buying what, to be "honestly unsure" about things.   You did not 'goof up'.

I need to work on this.  I feel I've gotten "use" to accepting his "punishments" for my "mess ups".  When I know I did goof up something (i.e. provided the wrong information, balanced the bank account wrong, forgot to do something, etc.) I feel bad and that I do deserve a reprimand.  This isn't normal or healthy.  That type of "punishments" he hands out is wrong.  I'm having a hard time standing up and saying it's not okay when I feel in the wrong.

How do we get past that?  That feeling that they are right to punish us for things we do feel we messed up on?  I know it's not right, but that feeling is something I'm fighting with.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Frankee,

How would you respond to your kids if they made a mistake?  Would they be punished for a slip up?  From what you're describing, these are simple errors that anyone could make and are not intentional.  It's a far cry from knowingly going against a person's wishes, cheating, stealing, or harming someone and damn the consequences.  Forgetting something is not a punishable offence.  So if your children were in school and they made an error I'm guessing you'd want their teacher to reassure them that everyone makes mistakes and that it's not the end of the world.  Why then do you not feel deserving of the same treatment?

As a self professed codependent, I notice that I want so much for others yet fail to see that I too am worthy of the same love, care, patience, acceptance and understanding that I give to others.  I would suggest that you begin by giving that to yourself.  It sounds to me like you are overly critical of yourself and not giving yourself the compassion that you deserve.  Remember, we set the tone for how others treat us.  If we think it is OK for us to be treated poorly and accept that, then so do others.  When you feel able to believe that you are worth every bit as much patience as your children and your H receive, then you can project that forwards and show that outwardly through your behaviour. 

When you are at home this evening, if things get heated, what would you normally do?

Love and light x   

[Frankee]

It's frustrating.  I agree with the child thing.  I try to teach my kids that it is okay to make mistakes.  Everyone does it.  I may initially get upset depending on the mistake, but I'm not going to demean them or make them feel like dog poop about it.

I am overly critical about myself.  I didn't use to be.  Use to be accepting of my sometimes goofy slip ups or forgetfulness.  Would tell myself that it was okay and mistakes happen as long as I learn from them.  That was before.  When I first met my H and we were in the "honeymoon" phase.  I've let him break me down over time.  Now I feel that I'm not allowed to make the same mistake more than once.  Not allowed to provide misinformation (on accident of course),  not supposed to forget anything, not allowed to trip over my words (because that means I'm trying to lie).

I do feel that I give my kids and H more understanding, compassion, and patience than I receive.  My kids are one thing.  I'm their mother and it my responsibility to provide that for them.  I really need to try harder at setting boundaries of what I will or won't accept. 

[babyducks]

hi Frankee,

How are things going today?  And how did you find things when you got home last night?

Can we back up to something Harley Quinn said?   I really liked this point.

As a self professed codependent, I notice that I want so much for others yet fail to see that I too am worthy of the same love, care, patience, acceptance and understanding that I give to others.  I would suggest that you begin by giving that to yourself.  It sounds to me like you are overly critical of yourself and not giving yourself the compassion that you deserve.  Remember, we set the tone for how others treat us.  If we think it is OK for us to be treated poorly and accept that, then so do others.  When you feel able to believe that you are worth every bit as much patience as your children and your H receive, then you can project that forwards and show that outwardly through your behavior. 

So the highlights are mine of course.   HQ is correct,  we set the tone for how others treat us.    And we do that with boundaries.   This behavior of your H isn't going to go away.   Not without time and effort.   There may be quiet spells but he has established a pretty visible track record.   How can you establish a boundary,  a plan,   that the next time this happens you already know,  automatically,  what you will do,  what you will say,   how you will get through it.    Reacting in the moment is not serving you well.

Every episode of violent and threatening language is further damaging you, your children, and your relationship.   What one thing,   what one small thing, can you do today that will start to push this in another direction?

'ducks

[babyoctopus]

Only mistake you made was apologizing. You did nothing wrong.

[Frankee]

What HQ said actually made sense.  I know there are times where I get angry and I don't talk kindly to myself.  I fall into the victim role.  It was pretty quiet last night.  No yelling or screaming etc.  It was a little hard getting sleep because the baby kept waking up.  Was fine this morning.  Everything went smooth.  Even coming to work I felt okay.  Even got another offer and an item I'm selling.  I sent a text message just now.  Mentioned to my H that I have diapers, but I probably need to get a box before next pay day.  He said okay.  And get a rat for our snake.  I said okay, I will do that tomorrow.  I thought, okay, that was easy transaction.  Then I get this text message.

I mean seriously, if y'all want to keep asking me for sh**, maybe y'all should do and get the things I ask you too. Y'all always remember what you need, but for some reason you just ignore everything i need. It's not working like that anymore. I hope y'all are ready to live with a real a**hole. That lie you told broke the camel's back. I'm done trying with anything, your basically just my bit** now. You do what I say when I say or you can get the F*** out. You want to be a liar, your gonna be treated like one.

Totally unexpected.  I feel myself shaking.  I am literally about to go ape sh** on him.  So now I need to do this "establish a boundary,  a plan,   that the next time this happens you already know,  automatically,  what you will do,  what you will say,   how you will get through it.    Reacting in the moment is not serving you well."  I need to think carefully on how I respond to this.  This is what he seriously said for what happened yesterday. 

So shout out.  I'm not going to take it.  I am making a choice right now to nip this in the butt.  I refuse to allow him to talk and treat me this way.  I already know it's going to get real hairy.  I need to do this and I'm scared.  I do not deserve this.  I do not deserve to be treated like a doormat for him to wipe him boots on.  If I let this go, I will spend the next several years trying to recover.

Any encouraging words to build my courage would be great.

[Harley Quinn]

Frankee,

How long do you have before you see him?  Take some time to think through what you are going to do and what his likely response is going to be.  Is there any risk that he may lash out physically in your honest opinion?  Try to think about whether there have ever been any 'came close but didn't' moments.  Your safety is paramount here, so let's first think about how we cover that above all else.  When you feel confident you know what to do if things get out of hand, you will be better equipped to decide what your first steps will be.

Love and light x

[Frankee]

I won't see him until tonight when he comes home.  Usually around 11am.  I took the time to calm down and started reading under the tools section.  I got past the initial reaction of anger and wanting to "put him into check".  I already knew that would had been a very bad choice and made things far worse.  The post I made (however long ago) about contacting the abuse hotline was the last time I was scared he might had actually yanked me off the couch and done physical harm.  I know I need to avoid another situation like that. 

I'm thinking of taking the route under the listen with empathy tool.  I was reading their suggestions.  Removing myself from the attack and gaining perspective.  I know that his reaction to what happened is completely out of context.  There is something else that caused the explosion.  I was the target for his release of pain.  I've done "worse" things in his eyes and haven't had this bad of a reaction.  I also feel I need to avoid guilt, being anxious, helplessness.  The more I think, the more I'm feeling I need to take the stance of I am not going to tolerate being treated this way, I do not accept his behavior, showing him that I am not scared or going to allow him to run me over.  It seems I need to do this in a way where I'm not appearing smug, entitled, etc.  Also throw in the empathy listening.

Does it seem he's trying to illicit a certain reaction?

If I started with something like this, it may throw him off and a response he wouldn't expect.
I hear you about forgetting things.  It’s frustrating to feel ignored and like nobody is listening.  I know that it hurts and upsetting to feel that your requests are being completely disregarded.  It hard to feel like you need to be this angry person who only gets things by yelling, screaming, and threating.

I know my ability to stay calm in situations like this has caused him to become more enraged and angry.  From the track record, that's usually the response I receive.  I feel he wants me to either accept what he has to say or return with equal anger.  It's also apparent that he does have quiet spells, but still has that seething anger right below the surface, waiting for another reason to lash out.

[Harley Quinn]

I hear a lot of aggression within his message.  Would you say that this type of aggressive behaviour and the threats are 'usual' for him or can you see an increase in the severity over time at all?

I'm interested to know if you have friends and family who are aware of your situation.  Who do you speak to about this behaviour that is directed towards you?

You're absolutely right, we do not want a repeat of the time he seemed to be on the verge.  At the same time, showing him fear is going to spur him on with this behaviour.  Do you have the number for the DV hotline still?  My advice right now is to give them a call and take some advice around safety planning.  They can ask you all the questions around your living situation etc and will know the drill when it comes to considering every eventuality.  What we do not want is for you to put yourself at risk of harm.  If you needed to exit quickly, where would you go?  Do you have somewhere you could head to in a hurry if needs be?

Let's take this one step at a time.  Dotting the i's and crossing the t's is imperative for your sense of confidence and security when you face him. 

Love and light x 

[Harley Quinn]

I hear you about forgetting things.  It’s frustrating to feel ignored and like nobody is listening.  I know that it hurts and upsetting to feel that your requests are being completely disregarded.  It hard to feel like you need to be this angry person who only gets things by yelling, screaming, and threating.

I think you're on the right track here with the validation of his feelings.  This will work most effectively if he is relatively calm at the time and hasn't escalated.  It could subdue him enough that you are able to prevent things from spiralling.  I've highlighted the part which I feel might push his buttons though and cause a negative reaction.  This comes off as a criticism and is likely to be the only part he will hear, based on my experience of dealing with my ex.  I'd be tempted to keep it more neutral than allowing him to feel that a finger is being pointed. 

Perhaps we could replace this with something that talks about YOUR feelings?

Love and light x

[Mutt]

HiFrankee,

I didn’t read all of the posts I think that he snapped at you about meeting someone for an exchange was because either he didn’t want to be bothered, didn’t know what to say and projected his insecurities unto you. Does that sound like him?

He’s jealous that you might be meeting a potential man and if ge’s A owBPD he’s scared that you’ll abandon him. He has really low self esteem and self worth, his actions scream insecurity and it’s abusive to you emotionally and mentally.

I know my ability to stay calm in situations like this has caused him to become more enraged and angry.

He wants attention, he can’t stay cool and manage his own emotions, he’s probably jealous of your cool demeanour and you’re ability to pull it off easily in his mind. I completely agree with boundaries. Boundaries in simple terms is to keep the good stuff in and bad stuff out.

I just wanted to add something,  just keep in mind that there’s a good chance that there’s going to backlash for awhile because it’s behaviour that their not used to. He’s used to treating one way for a lot by time and judging by what you shared here he might crank things up a notch.

You should stick up yourself and not be a doormat. My question is to you is timing. Are you considering talking to the dv counsellor? You’re in conflicted so that means you’re not sure about if you’re going to stay or going to go. My point is what worries me is the potentional backlash towards you that could be physical abuse.

Would it be wise to wait and see what the dv counsellors say and if you feel like you’re going to stay or go. If you choose on leaving, you could put a lot of this into play after you’re gone that way it’s safer for you because you’re not in his direct line of sight.

[babyducks]

Hi Frankee,

I am glad you are taking some time to think this through and really plan a strategy.   You want to think about this carefully.    Anger and adrenaline will take you so far but when they run out the crash is pretty significant.    When the anger and adrenaline run out you want to be someplace 100% safe and comfortable.   

I am right there with Mutt and Harley Quinn,  your safety and the safety of the kids is the most vital thing.

Safety first.

Here are my suggestions about how to go about planning.    what ever you say keep it short, sweet and to the point.   You want it to be a natural message, something you would normally say but not so complicated as you can't remember it under stress.

I don't believe it's a good idea to get drawn into a long involved complex conversation.    Simple, short, to the point.

If I remember right you reached out the DV hotline from the online anonymous chat.    I think it would be a good idea to revisit that.    You want to build up as much support behind you as you can.

Take some time to the consider the safety planning that Harley Q talked about.   Where would you go in a hurry,   how would you get there,... .how would you move the kids.    It might not reach that point but better to think it through now than to have to do it in a hurry.

'ducks

[Frankee]

I agree with the backlash.  I wish that I could say some magic words to make it go away and come back down.  I know however that will never happen.  Even if I carefully choose my words and try very hard to watch what I say, he isn't going to let this go, probably for a few days.  That is the one of the hard parts, riding out the storm.

I talked to the national abuse hotline on their chat.  They provided information.  Also pointed out (as many us of know) that this is abuse, he's an abusive partner, I don't deserve this, there is a difference between love and abuse.  Even people with mental illness aren't all abusive that it is a choice for him to act this way.  I keep thinking of the slot machine (can't remember the phrase that's used).  But they try to keep playing the same thing and hoping that at some point they will win.  I already know that if I let this go or try to pacify him, that it will ensure that future behavior will be rewarded in the same way.  When I talked to them, I wasn't a crying ball of mess, I was pretty calm.  Still have a knowing feeling that I need to do something about this.

I have a feeling he's probably feeling like a conqueror because I still haven't responded to his very nasty text.  He doesn't realize that I'm reaching out for help and guidance to get a handle on the situation.  I hate playing these mind games and wish I could just come out and say how I'm feeling (which is already proven ineffective).

I tried posting under the Improving ongoing relationship.  Not sure if I posted under the wrong topic or not, didn't get notice that it was moved :\  I did discuss options for planning a safety plan and taking to a counselor.  I would have to find a counselor that accepts Medicaid or did free counseling.  Our finances are under careful watch.

He's done this before.  Said things such as "be prepared to live with an a**hole, your going to lose your family, I warned you what would happen if you kept doing this or that".  None of that is acceptable.  It is abuse.  I also notice that majority of the time, it fizzles in a few days (depending on how bad it was).

I like the short, sweet, and to the point.  I have this internal battle going on.  I'm having to force myself to be patient and think carefully about what my next move will be.  I really want to text him back and tell him I'm no bi**, he's acting like a privileged selfish a**hole, I'm not going to tolerate this BS, I deserve to be treated with respect and not talked to like this.  Don't worry, I'm not going to say any of that.  That's never proven to be the right response.

[Frankee]

I've been thinking of saying something short, sweet, and to the point in a little bit.  Validation of feeling ignored and being disregarded.  I notice that sometimes when I can comeback with validation and empathy or certain things and then give him time to think about it, it may de-escalate things tonight.  If I just remain quiet and radio silence until tonight, it may be worse.  Just extremely hard to displace myself when it was a direct attack at me.

Think so?

[Harley Quinn]

Preventing escalation right now needs to be top priority, I agree.  When he is calm and regulated is the only time to talk about things.  Trying to address things when he is off the boil will not pave the way to anything positive.  You know best how he will view your silence, so if your gut instinct tells you to reach out tentatively to put the fire out then that sounds like a plan.  What were you thinking of saying?  Try to be sure it sounds natural.  Speak your own language.  I found that starting with an observation worked well.  Something like 'it sounds as though you feel... .'  then keep it short in validating that.

Love and light x

[Frankee]

You know best how he will view your silence, so if your gut instinct tells you to reach out tentatively to put the fire out then that sounds like a plan.  What were you thinking of saying?  Try to be sure it sounds natural.  Speak your own language.  I found that starting with an observation worked well.  Something like 'it sounds as though you feel... .'  then keep it short in validating that.

He has made it clear he hates it when I stonewall.  I do admit I clam up when hurt or angry.  Resolves nothing and nobody is a mind reader.  My gut was definitely pulling in the direction of making some sort of validation that I hear him.  I read the texts again and from past experiences, feeling ignored is a huge trigger for him.  I also have learned that just ignoring or keeping quiet about certain topics is also another trigger.  

It's almost like pouring salt a wound.  Going around the saying I'm his bi** and do what he says when he says is a HUGE trigger for me.  I'm not a possession or some trained dog to "fetch".  I figure the best way is to address the underlying cause and not point fingers.

Sent this.
I hear you about the forgetting things.  It's frustrating to feel ignored and like nobody is listening.  Is sounds like you are hurt and upset you feel your requests are being completely disregarded.  I feel we can work on this together to understand and improve.  

Well... that was a fast response.

That's all secondary to the lieing and you know it. The fact that you feel the truth is something you can pick and choose to tell at your whim is the issue. I wouldn't put up with anyone else lying to me and I won't continue to put up with it from you. You made this problem yourself and now you'll just have to live with it. Leaving isn't even a option anymore, not until after the kids are safely in a house that I own. After that you can either put up with it or leave. For now though, it's a problem you created and you will just have to deal with it. I'm not nice to liars, don't trust 'em.

This is going to be a very stressful situation.   

[babyducks]

I am still seeing a lot of intimidation tactics and control and manipulation.   Would you agree?

I'm also not seeing a lot to validate in this last text.   

Do you think a SET would help?   Support Empathy Truth, where the truth would be an opening to begin to draw a boundary?

[Mutt]

keep thinking of the slot machine (can't remember the phrase that's used).

Exctinction burst

Going around the saying I'm his bi** and do what he says when he says is a HUGE trigger for me.  I'm not a possession or some trained dog to "fetch".

You know that you’re not a possession, you’re not an object, you’re a person. You have to distance yourself or depersonalize his actions. Think about it this way, what would people think of him going around saying this? He’s crude, he’s possessive, he objectifies you all things that he own even if he doesn’t want to own up to it.

Just a word of advice with respect news with HCP’s and I agree with babyducks. Don’t validate the invalid. Validate the valid. Make yourself a very small target. In regards to his response, he’s creating a lot of FOG, especially Fear in FOG.

[Frankee]

I am still seeing a lot of intimidation tactics and control and manipulation.   Would you agree?

Do you think a SET would help?   Support Empathy Truth, where the truth would be an opening to begin to draw a boundary?

This is what he thinks works.  Scaring people to keep them in their place.  Making threats to lose everything, having to deal with him being an a**hole.  He's said more than once (when he gets like this) that people take his kindness for weakness.  He hates to not appear in control

I kind of knew that even no matter how carefully I chose my words, he would still be angry.  He's making all of this about my lie.  Using it to justify his behavior.  Nothing I can say will change his mind that it is all my fault, I caused it, and now him acting this way is all on me.  That's what he thinks.

I don't know how to apply SET in this situation.  I'm still fighting the urge to rip him a new one.  I also know that I need to refrain from further contact until tonight.  Last thing I need I him blaming me for something else because I wanted to talk about this while he's at work.

[Frankee]

So dealing with his attempt at fear, obligation, and guilt.  I fully agree with that.  What bothers me about this is the constant mention of leaving.  He acts like my "lie" was a direct assault on him.  It wasn't even something I was really thinking about when I said that it.

I don't see any point I can pick out from his last text to validate.  I do want to ask why he keeps mentioning me leaving.  I get it's the whole abandonment issue he deals with, but that does not give him any right to talk to me this way.

I need to stay focused on the extinction burst also.  If he thinks this behavior will be rewarded with acceptance and compliance, then I'm in for an extremely hard road.

[Frankee]

It was quiet again last night.  I stayed in the bedroom and kept myself busy with rearranging the room because I wanted to put in a book shelf.  We had exchanges of words regarding our selling of items and moving stuff around.  I kept it strictly to what we were talking about and I kept the interaction limited. 

I'm pissed.  I didn't realize how pissed until he asked for a snack.  He asked if there was tuna.  I said no, I used the last of it last time.  He got upset.  I told him there was hamburger meat (he had been wanting hamburgers).  He said that is not what he wants, I never have what he wants, somebody must be smoking crack because he doesn't understand what we get at the grocery store.  I literally had everything else food wise he had been asking for... Except the f**in tuna.  He went into the bedroom and I felt livid.  I went into the kitchen and ranted to myself about it. 

Just because it's "quiet" and he's not talking about it or yelling... Doesn't mean anything has been resolved.  If anything, I feel that the longer it goes without me saying something, the more I feel he thinks I have quietly accepted that's how things are going to be.  I'm furious, I'm hurt, I'm stressed, I feel that I have this ticking time bomb right below the surface... Waiting for that one thing to make me explode. I don't want to feel this way and I'm trying to figure out what step to take next.

[Mutt]

Just because it's "quiet" and he's not talking about it or yelling... Doesn't mean anything has been resolved.  If anything, I feel that the longer it goes without me saying something, the more I feel he thinks I have quietly accepted that's how things are going to be.

You desperately want to be heard and validated from him. It has to be frustrating and depressing when you feel like you have no control over the situation.

To a degree that is true, you can’t control what he says or does. There are only two things that you have you control over, your thoughts and feelings and both need validation.

He can’t validate the feelings that you’ve felt for a long time that’s where talking about your experience here helps you.

[Frankee]

I don't have any control.  It is very frustrating that he is carrying on like this.  I literally didn't say a word, but I guess the way I moved to pick up the baby got him to accuse me of having an attitude.  Told me that he knows what I am doing, I have an attitude and he told me if I kept doing that, that it would be like this.  He isn't directing any of this towards anyone else.  He came out this morning and was in a great mood. Laughing and playing with the baby and dog.  But me? Straight us jerk and a**.  So he is completely aware and clear headed of his behavior.

I mean, I am totally at a loss here.  This is the backlash that was mentioned.  Hasn't escalated to violence, but he's turned into a straight up prick towards me.  There is nothing to valid at all, there is nothing to SET.  I still want to address the issue of his last text about calling me his dog.  I knew he could see through my quiet demeanor.  He is fully 100% blaming me and I am getting fed up with him throwing it in my face saying it's all my fault.  I realize that anything I do to "irritate" him is going to be an excuse in his mind to be a di** to me and say I caused this.

Now that I know what I'm dealing with (constantly saying I caused this, its my fault, I should of stopped doing this or that) I need to set a boundary and a response that will let him know I'm not going to listen to the accusations and be blamed for everything. 

[Cat Familiar]

Now that I know what I'm dealing with (constantly saying I caused this, its my fault, I should of stopped doing this or that) I need to set a boundary and a response that will let him know I'm not going to listen to the accusations and be blamed for everything.


I see you are walking a fine line. One part of you would like to respond directly to the verbal abuse. And another part of you wants to be strategic.

When you set a boundary, remember that you are doing it for yourself. No need to announce your line in the sand because that will just irritate him further.

[Frankee]

I see you are walking a fine line. One part of you would like to respond directly to the verbal abuse. And another part of you wants to be strategic.

As much as I would like to address the issue, now I'm not even sure that would be worth any effort.  He's already found me guilty in his mind.  Already has it set in his thick skull that I deserve this and I need to learn from it. 

This is a sensitive time.  I feel I should carry on like nothing is wrong.  When he is a straight up jerk or accuses me of doing something, acting like I don't know what he is talking about.  I don't however want to be invalidating when he voices a concern that is legitimate.  I also don't want to be accused of ignoring him or the situation because that irritates the crap out of me.

I think the ideas about removing myself from abusive and unpleasant situations and focus on working on my own thoughts and feelings.  He's going to try very hard to make me feel bad, guilt me into accepting his behavior as a result of my guilt, make me afraid I will lose everything.

[Mutt]

I need to set a boundary and a response that will let him know I'm not going to listen to the accusations and be blamed for everything.

I wanted to add to what catfamiliar said about setting the boundary on yourself. If he does X then I respond with Y.

For example he was trying to goad you this morning, he’ll try to bait you for attention and to sooth him.

You’re right, I would also remove myself from the situation, go out and have coffee with a friend or family member, go out and do errands, go for a walk, just going outside for fresh air is soothing.

He can blame all he wants, he’s changing reality because he’s hyper sensitive, emotionally immature and can’t self reflect. Blaming you or changing reality doesn’t make it your reality. Don’t assume the blame, you don’t have to say anything, just leave at his feet. I think what is really important do what you’re doing her and  get feedback so you don’t confused and lose yourself in the FOG.

The one thing that you have is self control, it’s something that he doesn’t have and can’t take from you. Work with what you have.

[Frankee]

For example he was trying to goad you this morning, he’ll try to bait you for attention and to sooth him.

You’re right, I would also remove myself from the situation.

Don’t assume the blame, you don’t have to say anything, just leave at his feet. I think what is really important do what you’re doing here and  get feedback so you don’t confused and lose yourself in the FOG.

The one thing that you have is self control, it’s something that he doesn’t have and can’t take from you. Work with what you have.

He is really throwing up the FOG like there is no tomorrow.  Came home last night in a very sour mood.

Later I ask if he needs anything.  Asked why, what the heck am I going to do.  I say, take a shower. H says, no... I don't, you can do whatever the eff you want since that's all you seem to want to do. 

I end up falling asleep on the couch taking care of the baby.  He comes out and was like, I see you're not going to get up, I guess I will just starve, I should had stopped at McDonalds, you can sleep out here on the couch tonight since you love it so much.

There was misunderstanding about the front door bring locked.

He said, you straight up lied to my face.  I said I thought it was.  He left the door wide open.  I close it and I swear I locked it.  He comes out and asks if I did, I say yes, he opens it and says no I didn't.  I said, yes I just now locked it.

He proceeds with... You lied again to my face, why do you keep doing this, liars go to hell, I'm going to make sure it feels that way while you are here, we don't have a relationship anymore, I don't deal with lying a** bit** cu**s, you're going to regret it, don't you have anything to say, I have a plan to you, you're going to regret it when you're back living with you're parents without your kids.  I said I don't have an answer, I'm not going to participate in this conversation.
Half of this,was from the other room from where I was.