Is this his way of seeing if I will make an effort

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I think I'm past the stage of just venting and carrying on about his episodes are and how cruel he's been.  He's still angry about the last time I lied.  As mentioned previously, I still can not remember ever saying what he said I did.  Water under the bridge.  I'm not going to argue if I did or didn't.  That would be backsliding a huge amount.  We were on the part of the cycle where I thought we reconciled, but today I know that hasn't happened.  

He's saying he can show he can try and not get mad when I've made mistakes.  He did the first time about the over payment.  Not so much where I miscalculate how much was in the bank.  He said he don't chose to be angry, that's why he had to work on it.  It's something he doesn't want, but is still there.  Telling me lying to his face in not out of my control and I could stop lying at any time and just choose not too.  So now he's choosing not to participate in this relationship.  And how we can both be miserable for all he cares.

I thought about it.  He's right. I choose to lie to his face.  I responded.  I know why I do it.  I feel bad after I do it.  It's something that I still need to work on.  Told him I was proud he has been working on it.  He's been pulling his weight and I haven't.  I'm making a choice not to be miserable or give up.  Told him about the bed breaking last night because the kids were jumping on it and I was laying on the couch.  I was feeling horrible last night and this morning and didn't want to deal with it.  How our oldest wanted to lie about it.  I was upset and knew I was going to get blamed because I wasn't watching the kids.  I told him no and explained why it's worse to lie and cover up something you did.  That people will be upset about what happened, but appreciate that you were honest.  They will be 1000 times more upset if you lie and cover it up.  Than they call you a liar and won't be able to trust you, so it is more important to tell the truth.  Talking to my kid, I realized that something our 6 year old was understanding, was something even I wasn't doing.  Made me feel like complete sh**.

Our working on our own issues weren't coinciding and I know he's upset because him finding out I lied about something, makes him angry.  Which as even a normal person would be.  So we are in shut down mode.  He's tired of hearing me say the same things over and over.  It's frustrating because I feel like he's not even identifying his cycles.  I see mine and his.  I know that his emotions and moods change like the breeze, but when he's like this... it's sometimes worse than the yelling and screaming.  He's stonewalling me.  I admit I do the same, but I'm still receptive to things he asks or says.  I don't completely shut him out, I just become quiet.  There's more to it, but this post was already long and I tried to touch the main points.

I just need some feedback.  :)oes it seem like this is his way of seeing if I will make an effort to change or work on things?  Or does it seem like he really has tossed in the towel and given up for now/awhile?  Am I doing right by the things I say?  My mind seems to be still at times and other times it feels like all of my thoughts and feelings are in spin mode and can't make sense of anything.  I know that he's shut down to my words and telling him how I feel and saying I know I need to work on my things.  I'm worried he is going to stop doing good like he was last week and go back to the raging and cruel mean things.  I know I can't control him and that his emotions/moods have a broken thermostat, but I'm feeling better now and him going back to phase one of the rage cycle is going to be really hard to deal with.

[Frankee]

I think I'm past the stage of just venting and carrying on about his episodes are and how cruel he's been.  He's still angry about the last time I lied.  As mentioned previously, I still can not remember ever saying what he said I did.  Water under the bridge.  I'm not going to argue if I did or didn't.  That would be backsliding a huge amount.  We were on the part of the cycle where I thought we reconciled, but today I know that hasn't happened.  

He's saying he can show he can try and not get mad when I've made mistakes.  He did the first time about the over payment.  Not so much where I miscalculate how much was in the bank.  He said he don't chose to be angry, that's why he had to work on it.  It's something he doesn't want, but is still there.  Telling me lying to his face in not out of my control and I could stop lying at any time and just choose not too.  So now he's choosing not to participate in this relationship.  And how we can both be miserable for all he cares.

I thought about it.  He's right. I choose to lie to his face.  I responded.  I know why I do it.  I feel bad after I do it.  It's something that I still need to work on.  Told him I was proud he has been working on it.  He's been pulling his weight and I haven't.  I'm making a choice not to be miserable or give up.  Told him about the bed breaking last night because the kids were jumping on it and I was laying on the couch.  I was feeling horrible last night and this morning and didn't want to deal with it.  How our oldest wanted to lie about it.  I was upset and knew I was going to get blamed because I wasn't watching the kids.  I told him no and explained why it's worse to lie and cover up something you did.  That people will be upset about what happened, but appreciate that you were honest.  They will be 1000 times more upset if you lie and cover it up.  Than they call you a liar and won't be able to trust you, so it is more important to tell the truth.  Talking to my kid, I realized that something our 6 year old was understanding, was something even I wasn't doing.  Made me feel like complete sh**.

Our working on our own issues weren't coinciding and I know he's upset because him finding out I lied about something, makes him angry.  Which as even a normal person would be.  So we are in shut down mode.  He's tired of hearing me say the same things over and over.  It's frustrating because I feel like he's not even identifying his cycles.  I see mine and his.  I know that his emotions and moods change like the breeze, but when he's like this... it's sometimes worse than the yelling and screaming.  He's stonewalling me.  I admit I do the same, but I'm still receptive to things he asks or says.  I don't completely shut him out, I just become quiet.  There's more to it, but this post was already long and I tried to touch the main points.

I just need some feedback.  :)oes it seem like this is his way of seeing if I will make an effort to change or work on things?  Or does it seem like he really has tossed in the towel and given up for now/awhile?  Am I doing right by the things I say?  My mind seems to be still at times and other times it feels like all of my thoughts and feelings are in spin mode and can't make sense of anything.  I know that he's shut down to my words and telling him how I feel and saying I know I need to work on my things.  I'm worried he is going to stop doing good like he was last week and go back to the raging and cruel mean things.  I know I can't control him and that his emotions/moods have a broken thermostat, but I'm feeling better now and him going back to phase one of the rage cycle is going to be really hard to deal with.

[AskingWhy]

Frankee, lying, as you know, did not help and now gives your H a reason to put himself on higher moral ground.  Do you feel your BPD H is punishing you?  When one is lied to, there is a sense of betrayal and anger that is understandable.

Living with a pwBPD, though, is enough to make a raving lunatic out of the sanest person.

Lying does not help to develop trust, and pwBPD have enormous issues with trust.

Just let things stay low of awhile if you can, if that is possible. 

Authentic intimacy can't happen if the partners are not honest with one another. 

[Frankee]

Frankee, lying, as you know, did not help and now gives your H a reason to put himself on higher moral ground.  Do you feel your BPD H is punishing you?  When one is lied to, there is a sense of betrayal and anger that is understandable.

Living with a pwBPD, though, is enough to make a raving lunatic out of the sanest person.

Lying does not help to develop trust, and pwBPD have enormous issues with trust.

Just let things stay low of awhile if you can, if that is possible. 

Authentic intimacy can't happen if the partners are not honest with one another. 

That's what really is frustrating.  The last claim he said I did, I still can't remember saying what he's accusing me of.  It's left me wondering if I really did forget or he made it up somehow.  He may be punishing me, it's hard to tell.  Part of me is wondering if this is his way of seeing if I'll shut down or really make an effort to mend/fix/work on the issue.

He does have serious trust issues.  He said he hates liars.  I know I've not always been honest.  He's told me he's more upset if I lie and cover up (like I told our 6 year old) rather than just tell the truth.  I get frustrated with myself because it's like a switch.  My mind automatically flips into defensive/protection mode when I mess up and afraid of the reaction he'll give...   And I know is stupid because the lying part is worse.  I'm not trying hard enough to condition myself not to do that.  Just like they talk about practicing changing reactions to things.

I know I can change.  I know with that part, it's my vice and I need to get over it.  I've been chewing on it all day.  I really need to be 100% honest,  no matter what.  I know he won't believe me because I have a track record of not.  I want to rebuild his trust and I know it won't happen overnight.  I want to give him space and time to process the hurt and anything he is feeling, but want to show him that I'm still going to be here, trying to make it work.  Words are cheap right now, I know he needs proof.  I only hope he'll give me time.

[patientandclear]

Frankee—when you didn’t tell him about the broken bed, what was the reason? What were you afraid he would do?

[Frankee]

Frankee—when you didn’t tell him about the broken bed, what was the reason? What were you afraid he would do?

Thought he would yell at me for not watching the kids better.  Calling me a worthless lazy bi*** for laying on the couch.  Would blame me for letting them jump on the bed.  Yell about how we can't afford to buy another bed.  He was already angry with me from the day before.  I thought it would just give him more ammo for his anger.  I wasn't feeling up to all those possibilities.

[patientandclear]

 

That is completely reasonable and a self-protective response. I don’t know that it is helpful to process this as you violating his trust, you needing to earn his trust back, wondering if he will give you that chance.

He is behaving in ways that compromise YOUR trust. His behavior has caused you to believe that if you are honest, you will be punished. Your withholding information is to protect yourself.

It’s true that intimacy and a strong satisfying relationship don’t flow from untruthfulness. But it’s too simple to say that the solution is for you to just sign up to be attacked.

Your mind and body are trying to protect you. If lying/withholding information is a strategy for safety you want to move away from (which I support), you need another strategy for safety. If you don’t have another one, telling the truth and walking into the buzz saw of a frontal attack isn’t doing your marriage any good either.

Your H has a very damaging rage problem, that undoubtedly at bottom come from understandable fears and hurts, many not even at your hands. OK. That is a fact, at least for now and a while to come. Is there anything else you can do other than lying or withholding information, to keep yourself safe from such attacks (not having to listen to them) and your kids safe from having to watch/hear them?

That is really mostly a logistical question. For single people who can afford a hotel or have understanding relatives nearby, leaving routinely for a while may be feasible; with assurances that you will be back tomorrow, back in a few hours, need to step away until it’s possible to talk differently.

For someone with kids it’s a lot harder.

I’m laying this out so you can see that your lying/withholding information may be the only way you can think of to not be subjected to really harmful behavior. Please don’t beat yourself up for choosing a plan of self-protection. Sure, lying is a barrier to intimacy, but so is what is causing you to choose lying—your H being an emotionally untrustworthy partner. You need SOME plan for not being subjected to such behavior.  Can you think of a better one? Maybe there is one; but maybe not.  This is important information in weighing your choices.  

[Frankee]

He is behaving in ways that compromise YOUR trust. His behavior has caused you to believe that if you are honest, you will be punished. Your withholding information is to protect yourself.

Your mind and body are trying to protect you. If lying/withholding information is a strategy for safety you want to move away from (which I support), you need another strategy for safety.

I tell this to myself to make myself feel better and justify why I do it.  I seem to find myself worse off if I had just come out and said, hey I messed up.  This is what I did.  I know he would rather me admit it so he can get mad and get over it.  If he finds out I lied or tried to withhold, then he gets mad and draws it out and loses trust.  I know it's true, but I can't seem to get over the initial self protection.

Is there anything else you can do other than lying or withholding information, to keep yourself safe from such attacks (not having to listen to them) and your kids safe from having to hear.

I’m laying this out so you can see that your lying/withholding information may be the only way you can think of to not be subjected to really harmful behavior. Please don’t beat yourself up for choosing a plan of self-protection. Sure, lying is a barrier to intimacy, but so is what is causing you to choose lying—your H being an emotionally untrustworthy partner. You need SOME plan for not being subjected to such behavior.  Can you think of a better one? Maybe there is one; but maybe not.  This is important information in weighing your choices.  

I've thought a lot about this whole thing.  The talk I had with our 6 year old was what did it.  I was sitting there talking to him about the importance of being honest and telling the truth.  As I was telling him, I realized I haven't been.  As much as my H hates it, I know that I need to make a change,  not for him, but myself and the kids.

My lying is self protection, but I know it's not healthy for myself to automatically react by lying.  If I find myself caught in that loop with him, it may start becoming a natural reaction to everything.  Than I will be a pathological liar.  I'm still frustrated that I feel like I'm being punished now for something I can't remember saying.

Last night I decided to spend a lot of time looking up motivational, strong moms, and not giving up quotes.  I find that bombarding my mind with this positive imagery helps built my inner strength.  I woke up feeling pretty good this morning.  Decided that I needed to focus on my inner peace.  He can be grumpy, burn off his steam, make his little snarky jabs, and be miserable with his short patience.  I asked myself, why am I so scared?  I didn't use to be like this. I know it's because of the emotional and verbal abuse. I just don't want to live like this anymore.  I choose to make an effort to do better, stop being so scared, and give the kids back the mom they deserve. 

I'm still would appreciate any feedback or outside perspective on all this.   I'm wanting to really move forward and not complain all the time.

[Lakebreeze]

FrankeeFrankee,
First a virtual hug because I know first hand how much pain you are experiencing in all this. I have told all kinds of lies to cover things up and smooth things over. Mostly things the kids have done, broken or whatever. And not lying, but not disclosing information hoping I can get stuff cleared up before he finds out and starts raging about this. I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about.
You are not a lier. Ok? It's not healthy Communication and it's not right but you are in very difficult situation with a mentally I'll person and you have started using it as a coping mechanism. But it doesn't agree with your value system. That's was obvious when you were talking with your 6year old. That's where so much of the pain comes from.
I'm going to share something my therapist said and I hope it helps even just a little. You doing this out of fear. So what are you afraid of? Your husband raging right? Ok, so is that really something to be so afraid of? It makes me feel scared etc., But you can choose to feel differently when he rages. Choose not to be scared of the rage. Him raging needs to illicit a different response from you. Ok, we will talk later ( total calm) and take the kids for ice cream, or at very least to the bedroom for stories. Let go of the fear. I hope this makes sense, I'm terrible at explaining things.
The other thing that helped me was (I'm a Catholic) going to confession. Really. Confess my sins, receive God's merciful forgiveness for when I have messed up, lied, been impatient, and move on. You deserve peace in your life. It's been powerful for me, so find what gives you this withing the framework of your religious or spiritual convictions.
Take care!

[Frankee]

I have told all kinds of lies to cover things up and smooth things over. Mostly things the kids have done, broken or whatever. And not lying, but not disclosing information hoping I can get stuff cleared up before he finds out and starts raging about this. I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about.

I really do.  I lie about stupid stuff.  Like if I had paid a bill.  I may realize I forgot, so I will say,  yes I did.  Then as soon as I can, I'll pay it real quick.  Something happened one time and he caught me lying about it so then he just couldn't believe anything else I said.  He throws out the liar card when I don't lie, but may provide wrong information. 

You are not a lier. Ok? It's not healthy Communication and it's not right but you are in very difficult situation with a mentally I'll person and you have started using it as a coping mechanism. But it doesn't agree with your value system.

I really appreciate that as well as what patient said.  Having others understand this part makes me feel less like the horrible pathological liar who can't stop lying to save my life person he's made me out to be.  And yes, he used those words verbatim.  I felt like there was something really wrong with me and was starting to think I was a horrible person because I kept lying.   

Then he gaslighted the sh** out of me last night and I saw right through it. He was trying to make me be guilty and defend myself saying I was going through his phone he uses for audio books (which has a private email) because I had to use it when my phone wasn't working.   And then said I was the one with the secret email and hiding all my emails.  I didn't defend and deny or even acknowledge the absurd claim.  I have nothing to hide.  He could take my phone and go through everything and I wouldn't care.  So what was he being so defensive about?  I have never even said anything about stuff on his phone.   Why does he have such a huge problem with me using his phone?  What is HE trying to hide?

Right now I know he's punishing me.   I just brush it off and don't let it phase me.  Does this seems like the right approach?  Brushing off his snarky attitude and acting like I'm doing just fine?  I already know that he's probably going to be that way when he gets home so I'm trying to mental prepare. 

[patientandclear]

I think there is a limited extent to which people can just brush off extreme cruelty and decide not to be afraid or to override our bodies' and our minds' instinct for self protection.  That's sort of like saying if you touch the hot stove and it burns but you just decide to override the sensation of pain, it can be OK.

You have the instinct to avoid his response because his response is harmful -- not because you're making some sort of mistake.  It's harmful to you, and harmful to your kids to hear their mom be dealt with like that with no apparent resistance or response other than letting it roll off, not letting it faze you.  It fazes you because it is in fact damaging.  It will certainly faze your kids to hear that.

That's why I go back to: you need some strategy to prevent that harm -- not just to tolerate it so you don't have to lie to avoid it.

The strategy of leaving the room or the house during rages is pretty much the main thing taught here.  You can't control what he says but you can "take your ears elsewhere" as Formflier often says.  The problem for a parent is that that may not always be possible or responsible toward your kids.

The one thing I'm sure you should not do is to appease, placate or just grin and bear it.  You don't want this behavior to pay off and your mental health and the kids' cannot afford it to continue.

I think the focus on the "lying" is a distraction.  You are deviating from your values because you have a legitimate need to avoid being abused.  If you're going to set aside withholding information or being untruthful from your suitcase of strategies to protect yourself, you need other strategies.  Staying in place and deciding it doesn't hurt is not a strategy to protect yourself.

[isilme]

Please don’t beat yourself up for choosing a plan of self-protection

It's scary to have to share something you know might be a trigger to being yelled at.  And after a long period of deregulation, I know it feels a lot "safer" to simply remain quiet than to seek him out to tell him bad news.  I have to bolster myself a lot, and yes, wait for a "good period" when he seems fairly calm to tell him things I am pretty sure will not make him happy.  Although, to H's credit, he HAS done better over the last few years.  AND, I realize that by hiding things from him, or taking it all on myself to fix, I deprive him of the chance to actually do better himself.  Like, if I keep all bad news from him, how can he learn to react better to it?  Like me learning to get more comfortable talking to him about it, he is learning to deal with things better.  I can't make him live like a bubble-boy, isolated from adversity, and then expect him to have a sort of immunity to adversity. 

I am sorry things have been so crazy, but it's good to reach a point where you can see something YOU can work on - that puts a little of the power for change into your hands, and you CAN make those changes. 

[Frankee]

Although, to H's credit, he HAS done better over the last few years.  AND, I realize that by hiding things from him, or taking it all on myself to fix, I deprive him of the chance to actually do better himself.  Like, if I keep all bad news from him, how can he learn to react better to it?  Like me learning to get more comfortable talking to him about it, he is learning to deal with things better.  I can't make him live like a bubble-boy, isolated from adversity, and then expect him to have a sort of immunity to adversity. 

I never thought to look at it that way.   It actually makes a lot of sense.  I was observing it from a defensive standpoint instead of looking at it like a learning point.  This is something I can work on.  I intend on spending a very long time with this person.  I know how I am currently handling or approaching all of this isn't working.  I kept chewing on how badly I think he might react or how he seems unable to handle bad situations. 

I haven't really looked at the fact he has done better.  When I just sucked it up and admitted when I messed up, he didn't blow up like I expected.  Although he did explode when I made a honest mistake with how much was going to be in the bank.  I ve addressed that issue.   I've been so wrapped up in all the negativity, I didn't see this is an opportunity to focus on something I can fix.

I am sorry things have been so crazy, but it's good to reach a point where you can see something YOU can work on - that puts a little of the power for change into your hands, and you CAN make those changes. 

We had a pleasant conversation last night.  He asked if I called the electric company.  I told him I would and I forgot.  I cringed but simply said no I didn't.  He got a little huffy, made a comment about if they cut off our electric, who's too blame...   Then carried on.  Even asked me how much was in the bank.  Even after he had screamed about how he couldn't trust me with the finances the other day.

It's really mind blowing how fast he spins around.  I feel good still.  I think if I stay on this current path, things will overall get better. I like feeling like I have my big girl panties on and kicking a little a**    Taking control over things I can change and making an effort makes me feel more confident.

I know there is still going to be bad days where I feel it back slides and everything got tossed out the window.   I'll just try to remember it's just a bad day.

[Lakebreeze]

FrankeeFrankee,
Glad to hear things settled down a little bit for you. That's the thing with BPD. If you can hunker down for the horrible storms they do eventually end.  Take care, Peace!

[Cat Familiar]

Something to consider, Frankee, is that people with BPD see things in absolute terms: either you're a 100% truth teller or you're a pathological liar. No shades of gray. And once they've labeled you in a negative way, they look for examples to justify that opinion.

The reality is that we all lie sometimes. Communication is never !00% accurate to begin with, just because we all have different personal meanings for the words we all share. For example: "soon". If I say I'll do something soon, it might mean that I'll do it by next week. For my husband, it means (only if it's applied to me) that he thinks I'll do it within the hour.

I spent some time living in the rural South when I was young. People would say, "I'll be there directly." I'd never heard this expression, being a native Californian. I thought it meant some time later that day, when instead, they meant perhaps within two weeks, whenever they got around to it.

It seems to me that pwBPD want to apply these absolutely strict rules about "truth" to us, while they have a much more lenient sense of truth for themselves. Probably it's due to tremendous insecurity that dates back to their childhood, when they didn't have the stability and security they needed from others. They gloss over this hypocrisy, such as how your husband dismissed the "private email". (And of course, don't dismiss the idea that he's projecting his behavior onto you!)

Waiting for an appropriate time to share unpleasant news is even more important with pwBPDs than with nons, but it's easy to start tiptoeing around them because often there is almost never a good time. I've learned to carefully observe my husband's face, body posture and voice tone for signs of dysregulation. When I see that, I immediately back off and look for ways to say something validating and supportive. Then if it appears that he's too "weak" to handle whatever I need to share, I'll just wait until he's stronger.

[Frankee]

Something to consider, Frankee, is that people with BPD see things in absolute terms: either you're a 100% truth teller or you're a pathological liar. No shades of gray. And once they've labeled you in a negative way, they look for examples to justify that opinion.

The reality is that we all lie sometimes. Communication is never !00% accurate to begin with, just because we all have different personal meanings for the words we all share. For example: "soon". If I say I'll do something soon, it might mean that I'll do it by next week. For my husband, it means (only if it's applied to me) that he thinks I'll do it within the hour.

I spent some time living in the rural South when I was young. People would say, "I'll be there directly." I'd never heard this expression, being a native Californian. I thought it meant some time later that day, when instead, they meant perhaps within two weeks, whenever they got around to it.

That makes a lot of sense.  In a way, makes me feel better.  I went out east and they used the term "go over yonder" a lot.  I was like... what is a yonder?  I do notice that my H has a very short patience span.  Also once he has something stuck in his head that is right and he's mad... arguing it isn't has the same effect as smacking my head on a wall.  Will only give me a headache.  I remembered that this morning.

It seems to me that pwBPD want to apply these absolutely strict rules about "truth" to us, while they have a much more lenient sense of truth for themselves. Probably it's due to tremendous insecurity that dates back to their childhood, when they didn't have the stability and security they needed from others. They gloss over this hypocrisy, such as how your husband dismissed the "private email". (And of course, don't dismiss the idea that he's projecting his behavior onto you!)

He does seem to bend the rules for himself.  I find there are times where he's ranting about something he thinks I'm doing wrong, when he's sitting there doing the exact same thing.  He got made at me one time because he left a drink next to his side of the bed, the kids knocked it over... and get this... said... I cannot believe you people, you all are making a mess, leaving a full drink lying around everywhere, you all are messy filthy people, etc.  I stood there dumbfounded.  Asking myself... did he really just blame us for him leaving a full drink sitting around?

Waiting for an appropriate time to share unpleasant news is even more important with pwBPDs than with nons, but it's easy to start tiptoeing around them because often there is almost never a good time. I've learned to carefully observe my husband's face, body posture and voice tone for signs of dysregulation. When I see that, I immediately back off and look for ways to say something validating and supportive. Then if it appears that he's too "weak" to handle whatever I need to share, I'll just wait until he's stronger.

I kind of blew it this morning.  I made a second post because it was kind of long and separate from this.  I'm glad you pointed out observing his demeanor.  I saw my husband was obviously not in the right state of mind... I know he's usually in a bad mood, especially if woken up too early.  I just decided not to back off.  I felt completely blind sided and like if someone had walked by and smacked you upside the head... reaction would be too get mad and yell WTH!  I'm frustrated with myself.

Anyways, I'm okay even after our incident this morning, a little mad still.  I'm starting to realize that even though I can't control him, I can regulate how I handle the situation.  That may seem redundant and I know I've heard it numerous times.  It just took some time to actually register mentally.  I just mean that this morning, it could have gone a completely different direction, but I took the low road and felt justified in my standpoint. 

[Cat Familiar]

I'm much better dealing with animals than I am with people. It helps me to think in terms of animal behavior modification/training and how that can apply to people. Different types of animals require different strategies. For example: carnivores such as dogs and cats respond very differently than prey animals such as horses, goats, sheep. Also there are different strategies depending upon gender and status in their community.

With regard to my young mare, I have to treat her in a more gentle way than my gelding because she is more attuned to subtlety. On the other hand, if I don't establish myself as "alpha" she will try and take advantage of me. And that's not just a one time thing with horses: they're always testing to see if the leader is strong.

There have been times when she's done something really bad, such as biting the air close to my body, and at that moment, I've had to strongly discipline her. Immediately she has backed off, hung her head and has assumed a submissive body posture. If I hadn't sharply reacted, she might have tried to take it to the next level--biting me. As soon as I see that submissive attitude, all is over and we move on. Incident noted and done.

Now I'm not in any way saying that you need to "discipline" your husband. But what I am saying is that whether you feel it or not, YOU ARE THE BOSS MARE! You have far more ability to alter your emotional responses than he does and therefore YOU ARE IN CONTROL!

My horse outweighs me by almost 10 times. Her reactions and response times are lightening fast--far quicker than any human. Yet she listens to me (most of the time) and considers me her boss. Yes, she has gripes from time to time, but generally we get along really well.

Now your husband will never acknowledge that you are the boss mare. This is something for only you to know. But it is the truth.

[Frankee]

On the other hand, if I don't establish myself as "alpha" she will try and take advantage of me. And that's not just a one time thing with horses: they're always testing to see if the leader is strong.

There have been times when she's done something really bad, such as biting the air close to my body, and at that moment, I've had to strongly discipline her. Immediately she has backed off, hung her head and has assumed a submissive body posture. If I hadn't sharply reacted, she might have tried to take it to the next level--biting me. As soon as I see that submissive attitude, all is over and we move on. Incident noted and done.

Now I'm not in any way saying that you need to "discipline" your husband. But what I am saying is that whether you feel it or not, YOU ARE THE BOSS MARE! You have far more ability to alter your emotional responses than he does and therefore YOU ARE IN CONTROL!

My horse outweighs me by almost 10 times. Her reactions and response times are lightening fast--far quicker than any human. Yet she listens to me (most of the time) and considers me her boss. Yes, she has gripes from time to time, but generally we get along really well.

Now your husband will never acknowledge that you are the boss mare. This is something for only you to know. But it is the truth.

It's funny you said that.  Something my H said this morning that I paid attention too.  When we had our quarrel.  I asked why he keeps defending his brother over me... said a couple things and then said, because he doesn't keep giving me sh**.  May not seem like anything, but it kind of relates to what you said about the horse.  His brother will let a lot slide and not challenge or question him in many ways.  My H directs a lot of rages and issues towards me.  I wondered why I was the one in the house with the target on my forehead.  Another thing he said in our fight was how I think I run things, how I'm acting like I'm the boss and the queen, when I'm not the queen of anything.  I don't feel that way, but something about how I was handling the situation this morning made him feel that way.

I know I need to apply the tools here, but I'm starting to get the impression that he does need me to be the "boss mare".  It just seems validate viewpoint after what happened this morning.  My H is a tall built man and when he rages, he can be scary.  Luckily, I'm not a short woman and sometimes stand just as tall with my boots.  He said in the past he doesn't need a weak cowardly woman that won't tell him when he's being a jerk.  I thought that was a cheap shot at telling me I was pathetic. 

I get a text. 

I'm sorry about this morning.  I don't know why I get like that.  Sometimes I get up and start yelling before I realize I'm even awake.  Then by the time I realize what I'm doing it's too late.  I'm still working on it, I promise.  I know I'm hard to live with and I don't want to lose you even if I say I do say it.  Thank you for putting up with me, I love you and our family.  I'll never leave.

I know it's sincere.  Now I'm left feeling that it was okay how I reacted.  I really wasn't doing anything wrong.  I was blind sided this morning but his raging.  I stood my ground. I'm glad he sent the text.  I didn't slink away, I didn't just sit there and take all the attacks, I didn't just say okay, I'm sorry, etc. 

I wrote out and edited the other post and within an hour, he sent me that text.  I can see that everything that happened is his internal battle.  He was projecting his insecurities and issues onto me.  Does it seem like I'm on the right path with all of this?  I do need to work more on applying the tools here though.  I want us to be partners, a team working together in life, building for something better.  I don't want a power pull of who is or isn't the boss.  It's just seems like a very hard balance to find with him. 

[Cat Familiar]

Yes, you certainly don’t want to get into a power play about who is the boss. That will only lead to ugliness.

What you do need to acknowledge is that you’re the boss mare with respect to the following:

1. You can choose to control your reactions and responses
2. You have more control of the situation because of #1
3. You have the right to not be attacked and can remove yourself if necessary
4. You don’t need to apologize if you don’t think you’re in the wrong
5. You don’t need to placate him

Being the boss mare is being strong and not putting up with crap. It doesn’t mean fighting back, because in the case with horses—humans are destined to lose—we are outmatched physically. With pwBPD, we are in the power position because we are not as emotionally reactive. Therefore we need to use all our brainpower to avoid conflict. And a good place to start is by practicing the Rules over and over until they become an automatic reflex.

[Cat Familiar]

Oh and I occasionally get that “you think you’re the queen of everything” comment directed at me.

I ignore it now. What I think it means is that I’ve maintained my dignity and composure while he’s lost his and he feels like a fool and is trying to take me down a notch.

I used to try and placate him and soothe his feelings about it because I certainly didn’t want to be perceived as thinking I was better than him.

Then I started acknowledging it sardonically—“Yeah, I guess I’m a narcissist.”

Now I just ignore it and move on and change the subject. “That was really great that you were able to fix my computer. Thanks!”

My life is so much more peaceful now.

A big part of it has been improving my own self esteem and not taking on his negativity. So what if he thinks I’m a jerk? Or selfish? I don’t really care because it’s a momentary feeling that is fleeting. I don’t need to defend against it. If I do, then it becomes a big f*n deal. Like with my horse, I just move on.

[Frankee]

I had my first test.  I did what he told me to do.  Which I should of been paying closer to what he sent, because I would of noticed it was wrong.  Chaos, kids yelling/screaming, tearing around, really bad day at work, dealing with a jerk of a guest, dinner didn't go as planned, dishes stacked up, baby fussing and wanting to be held, then crying and refusing to eat...     I should have put the brakes on before just doing what he said. 

Finances...   Again.  He said so you told me there is x amount of dollars in the account, so pay x amount of dollars to rent.   I said okay.  Paid it.  Went to write it down and saw that he had put the wrong amount that was in the bank.  If I had taken a few minutes and verified the amount he was saying, I would of noticed I told him exactly hundred dollars less.  It was the correct amount, but the first number was off, so I didn't even think twice.

To my defense, I was honest.  He came home, told him outright what happened.  He's upset.  We had a discussion about it.  He told me I keep doing this over and over.  I really wanted to point out he told me the wrong amount, but knew that was pointless and he would say I should have checked before I did it.  Which I agree.  I'm frustrated.  One step forward, two step back.  Think I have a grip on something and it slides right out of my mind. 

[Notwendy]

2 strong - I admire your spunk. One of my issues was being a doormat- compliant and fearful and although you may feel badly about the way you stick up for yourself, I think it is good that you don't take this stuff for him.

One of the issues that some people ( and myself included) have  struggled with is constant appeasement, avoiding conflict- and you may do some of that but when you have had enough, you've had enough.

It's easy to confuse avoiding drama with avoiding conflict and appeasement. Appeasement doesn't help in the long run.

One idea may be to work on reactivity- how to stand up for yourself without blowing it, and having a crazy moment. But you are also who you are- you are not a docile person and that's good. I like Cat's idea that you are the boss mare.

You have a lot on your plate- job, kids, but wow, you are a strong person. Don't forget that. You have the capacity to lead the situation out of chaos by working on your own reactivity- and this doesn't mean being docile.

[Frankee]

I appreciate the kind words.   I don't get them much around here.  This morning I got hit with a doozy.  He's blaming his unhappiness squarely on me.   Told me that he's been telling me for a long time that he's unhappy.  Yes I've made mistakes.  Overpaid twice on two different bills, causing stress.  Both times I admitted what I did wrong and told the truth.

He said that I'm always going to say I should of done, but I didn't.  I'll never change.   I keep doing the same thing over and over.   If I thought I was at fault, I would change.  I'm too selfish too be unhappy with myself.   I only care about my happinesses and nobody else.   As long as I get what I want then it doesn't matter if anyone else is happy.  Because I was listening to what he to say and wasn't talking, I was ignoring him.  That I don't do anything at all because I'm a simpleton that can't do the simple things he asks.  How I've never done anything bad enough to want to change.  Said if he realized how stupid I was, he wouldn't of gotten with me, how I can't do basic math,    And here's the cherry on top.   Was told that I'm so selfish,  as long as I get what I want, it doesn't matter if I drive some one to suicide.   Because he thought about it yesterday.  Said if I get a call from the cops, saying that they found my husband's head blown off down by the beach...   Maybe then I would care enough to change a little. 

The whole time I stayed calm.  Looked at him when he was talking, was very careful not to JADE, validated his feelings.   Not trying to make excuses was the hardest part.  Think my calm exterior pissed him off because he was trying really hard to get me to react,  blow up...   Something.  I pointed out that I don't feel what he is saying true.   He said it's happening so it is true.  I wasn't going to get sucked into his skewed version of reality.

[Frankee]

2 strong - I admire your spunk. One of my issues was being a doormat- compliant and fearful and although you may feel badly about the way you stick up for yourself, I think it is good that you don't take this stuff for him.

One of the issues that some people ( and myself included) have  struggled with is constant appeasement, avoiding conflict- and you may do some of that but when you have had enough, you've had enough.

It's easy to confuse avoiding drama with avoiding conflict and appeasement. Appeasement doesn't help in the long run.

I appreciate that.  I'm usually a calm person, easy going.  It takes a lot for me to snap.  The incident in the morning was my snapping point.  When I was in the kitchen, minding my own business and he accuses me and the baby of waking him up... I couldn't allow him to run me down because he woke up on the wrong side of the bed.  The fighting, screaming, ugliness that goes along with conflict... I hate it.  I'm not always like that.  I'm still guilty of doing the appeasing, avoiding conflict at times.  It's hard standing up to him when he acts the way he does in his rages.  I was shaking and my heart was pounding. 

One idea may be to work on reactivity- how to stand up for yourself without blowing it, and having a crazy moment. But you are also who you are- you are not a docile person and that's good. I like Cat's idea that you are the boss mare.

You have a lot on your plate- job, kids, but wow, you are a strong person. Don't forget that. You have the capacity to lead the situation out of chaos by working on your own reactivity- and this doesn't mean being docile.

He throws a lot at me at times, which I know a lot of us can relate too.  The name calling and such is starting to sound like the adults off the Peanuts cartoons.  What I'm trying to work on not reacting too or getting angry about is when he takes shots at how I don't do anything, I never do anything he asks, his brother does everything around the house, I'm selfish, or I don't care about anybody's else's happiness except my own.  I told him today that I'm not going to argue or justify something I don't feel is true.  I'm a mom.  I work 24/7... literally.  I don't punch out from work and then get to relax like he does.  When he takes jabs at those kind of things, I feel my blood boiling.  I bust my butt for my job and my family and because I didn't get the clippers ready to cut his hair or send off notepads to HIS brother's mom... all of a sudden, I don't do anything. 

I come on here and ask for advice and to get positive feedback, because I rarely get it at home.  I feel like I'm doing all of this stuff behind the scenes to keep things moving forward.  When in his eyes I forget to do something he asks, then I'm labeled as... Peggy from Married with Children.  He blames me for setting us back when he's trying to move us forward.  He also pulled the "I'm never asking anything or for you to do anything ever again".  I let it go.  I know tonight he's going to ask for something to eat and a snack or to bring his stuff to the room.  And next time a bill is due, he's going to have me do it (just huff and puff how I'm going to mess it up the whole time).  All of this... it's his issues.  I mess I up, but I'm working on my honesty and the things I'm learning here.

[Cat Familiar]

Wow that’s a lot of verbal abuse thrown at you! No matter how much we tell you not to take it personally, some of it sticks, I know. My ex husband spoke that way to me too.

You can’t easily up and leave for the evening, with the kids, unless you have a safe place with a family member or a friend. So, you’ll need to create some strong boundaries.

I had no boundaries with my ex and his verbal abuse escalated into physical abuse. I just took it and hoped it would end soon—both the verbal and physical violence. I can tell you from experience that is not a good strategy. For me, the turning point was when he chased me down the driveway at midnight and for the first time ever, I yelled for help. That night I slept alone with a knife in my hand and I vowed that if he were to touch me, I’d unleash all the fury I felt after all those years of abuse. Thankfully that didn’t happen, or I’d probably would have ended up in prison. But that night was the end of my relationship.

So, having been in your shoes, I encourage you not to engage in the drama with him by yelling back or saying unkind things. You do need to set limits on hearing those nasty accusations.

Again, with kids at home, it limits some of your options.

Here are some sentences you might try:
I’m not going to participate in this discussion until feelings cool down.

Things are too upset between us to talk right now.

I can’t talk about this right now.

I’m open to having a civil conversation about this matter with you later.


You get the idea. You might want to practice a variety of wordings that feel natural to you, using the I statements. As soon as you use “you” wordings, it’s likely to set him off even more. Write them down. Practice saying them in the car. Make it an automatic response.

Remember don’t wrestle with pigs. They like it and it only gets you dirty.

[Frankee]

Wow that’s a lot of verbal abuse thrown at you! No matter how much we tell you not to take it personally, some of it sticks, I know. My ex husband spoke that way to me too.

I had no boundaries with my ex and his verbal abuse escalated into physical abuse. I just took it and hoped it would end soon—both the verbal and physical violence. I can tell you from experience that is not a good strategy. For me, the turning point was when he chased me down the driveway at midnight and for the first time ever, I yelled for help. That night I slept alone with a knife in my hand and I vowed that if he were to touch me, I’d unleash all the fury I felt after all those years of abuse. Thankfully that didn’t happen, or I’d probably would have ended up in prison. But that night was the end of my relationship.

So, having been in your shoes, I encourage you not to engage in the drama with him by yelling back or saying unkind things. You do need to set limits on hearing those nasty accusations.

As soon as you use “you” wordings, it’s likely to set him off even more. Write them down. Practice saying them in the car. Make it an automatic response.

Remember don’t wrestle with pigs. They like it and it only gets you dirty.

Honestly, if our toddler wasn't sitting right next to me, it may had gone a very different direction.  He was standing there and I saw that when my H started getting louder, my baby climbed up in my lap and curled up next to me.  I'm grateful he doesn't understand words yet, just volume and physical expression.  So having him curled up by me, seeking comfort was a huge reason why I was able to keep it limited to his words being thrown around.  I felt at that moment, as much as I wanted to up and walk away, I knew that would escalate the situation.  I had a clear mind and I was very aware of the temperature of the conversation.  I knew if I let him get to me and started emotional responding, our toddler would of gotten scared and then it would of gotten out of hand. 

I'm glad you got away from your ex that escalated into physical abuse.  It doesn't sound like anything that you would be able to come back from, having to sleep with a knife.

I sent him a short text letting him know I was thinking about him and hope his day was going well.  Radio silence so far.  I already know how this is going to play out tonight.  Noticing the pattern.  He's going to give me the silent treatment or talk to me about what needs to be done tomorrow, watch his TV shows for a little, shower, come to bed, watch his TV shows, be silent, ask what there is to eat, I make him something to eat, he gets his snack, watches some more TV on his phone, I can tell he's feeling hurt, I comfort him by physical contact i.e., rubbing his back and leaning on him, he doesn't talk, then at some point, turn off the light and go to sleep.

I don't want this cycle to go around and around until I lose my sanity, but it seems that this is what he does after the word vomit he had earlier.  I'm still trying to figure out if early in the day, he's lost touch with reality and thinks everything is coming to an end.  Then at night, when he sees I'm still there and not running away, it feels like he's relieved.  I can't keep doing this though.  I don't want him to keep word vomiting for whatever reason, expect me to listen to all of it and then just keep coming back and comforting when he's calmed down.  Don't judge this last part, but the flip side is that I don't want him to feel rejected, withhold feelings as punishment for earlier, or like it's not safe for him to express certain feelings. I'm not justifying what he did earlier and that was just being cruel and not expressing.

[Cat Familiar]

I sent him a short text letting him know I was thinking about him and hope his day was going well.  Radio silence so far.  I already know how this is going to play out tonight.  Noticing the pattern.  He's going to give me the silent treatment or talk to me about what needs to be done tomorrow, watch his TV shows for a little, shower, come to bed, watch his TV shows, be silent, ask what there is to eat, I make him something to eat, he gets his snack, watches some more TV on his phone, I can tell he's feeling hurt, I comfort him by physical contact i.e., rubbing his back and leaning on him, he doesn't talk, then at some point, turn off the light and go to sleep.

I don't want this cycle to go around and around until I lose my sanity, but it seems that this is what he does after the word vomit he had earlier.  I'm still trying to figure out if early in the day, he's lost touch with reality and thinks everything is coming to an end.  Then at night, when he sees I'm still there and not running away, it feels like he's relieved.  I can't keep doing this though.  I don't want him to keep word vomiting for whatever reason, expect me to listen to all of it and then just keep coming back and comforting when he's calmed down.  Don't judge this last part, but the flip side is that I don't want him to feel rejected, withhold feelings as punishment for earlier, or like it's not safe for him to express certain feelings. I'm not justifying what he did earlier and that was just being cruel and not expressing.


Not being a parent and having a need to maintain stability in the home--you'll have to take what I say with a grain of salt since I've never walked in your shoes.

What you're doing here seems to be giving him unconditional love... .regardless of how he has treated you.

I can't help but see this from my perspective--from animal training. It looks like how you're training him is that no matter how he treats you, you will be kind, loving and accepting.

I hope some senior members join in this discussion because it's way above my pay grade.

[Frankee]

What you're doing here seems to be giving him unconditional love... .regardless of how he has treated you.

I can't help but see this from my perspective--from animal training. It looks like how you're training him is that no matter how he treats you, you will be kind, loving and accepting.

I hope some senior members join in this discussion because it's way above my pay grade.

You're right.  I am.  I know that I need to change that.  I need to learn how to break the "unconditional love" cycle when he behaves the way he does.  I want to avoid withholding affection or using it as punishment.  I need him to see that the way he behaves is unacceptable and if he does that, than I do... .as you can see, I'm not sure where to do from there.  He accuses me of lying when I hear him wrong or misunderstand or forgot.  He doesn't think there is such a thing. 

I'm trying to figure out how to "train" him, so to speak.  I feel I need to set boundaries.  The only problem that a lot of people suggest hasn't or isn't working.  I don't have friends/family to go to stay with, I've tried over and over to use the talk when we've calmed down or try to exit the scene and tell him we can discuss it later.  He follows me wherever I go in the house and it just escalates the situation.  I usually have my toddler so I can't just walk out of the house.  That's also what makes all of this even more difficult.  I first and foremost need to ensure that our toddler doesn't get scared, start crying, and learns to fear one of us because we are bellowing.  At the same time, I know that I shouldn't just stand there and take it.  Which goes against picking my battles, because I'm also not going to just let him run me down all the time.

Even now when he asked something and I gave him the answer.  He said that's not what we talked about and I really thought I heard him say that we were going to do it this way instead of that.  It makes me mad because then "I'm a liar, making stuff up, and is this what I'm going to do now?"  I'm sitting here trying very hard not to snap and get defensive about it.

I can see that my current position isn't working.  Something needs to change.  Change is hard when I've spent the last few years in the same cycles and responses.  It's like walking through quicksand.  I'm struggling on some days to find the strength to keep pushing forward when just falling back into the repetition we've been doing is so much easier.  Then that inner voice tells me no, don't allow myself to go back there when I am making progress. 

Something that else might help to understand his tactics... he uses intimidation.  He puffs up (like animals do) to make himself appear larger than life, gets loud, uses idle threats, says really mean things, and then tries to shake my confidence. 

[babyducks]

Frankee,

One of the things all our relationships have/had in common was a lot of intimidation.    Intimidation is a form of emotional abuse, just as the name calling, scape-goating, harassing, demeaning threatening language is also emotional abuse.

I agree with Cat Familiar,

   I encourage you not to engage in the drama with him by yelling back or saying unkind things. You do need to set limits on hearing those nasty accusations.

When an intimidator bullies you into a reaction he/she loses respect for you.   The power dynamic shifts.   You become a less - than person in the relationship.    and it become easier for the intimidator to bully again.

I'm trying to figure out how to "train" him, so to speak.  I feel I need to set boundaries.  The only problem that a lot of people suggest hasn't or isn't working.  I don't have friends/family to go to stay with, I've tried over and over to use the talk when we've calmed down or try to exit the scene and tell him we can discuss it later.  He follows me wherever I go in the house and it just escalates the situation.  I usually have my toddler so I can't just walk out of the house. 

Have you ever put a couple of dollars into the soda machine and pressed the button for your soda only to have nothing happen?   Most people will press that soda button harder.   Over and over again harder because we are used to having something happen when we put money in the machine and press a button.   

That's pretty much an extinction burst in a nutshell.   We all expect certain results from certain activities and when we don't get them we try the activity harder, more.    Your H is used to getting you to take responsibility for, well nearly everything if he hollers enough.    Heck he has you more than half convinced you are responsible for everything in the r/s.   

Cat is right.   You need to find a way to stop engaging in this cycle of conflict.    That includes not buying into arguments or statements that are obviously ridiculous.    Why are you willing to allow him to define your character?   He has either a disorder or disordered behavior, his opinions, are opinions and not facts, and deeply skewed to serve his needs.   That's not a rhetorical question,   I suspect the way to end the conflict is through finding out why you are willing to accept his judgements and name calling as legitimate.

You can't train him.    You are not responsible for him.    He is responsible for him.    Using threats like

Was told that I'm so selfish,  as long as I get what I want, it doesn't matter if I drive some one to suicide.   Because he thought about it yesterday.  Said if I get a call from the cops, saying that they found my husband's head blown off down by the beach...   Maybe then I would care enough to change a little. 

and using blocking behavior like

He follows me wherever I go in the house and it just escalates the situation.  I usually have my toddler so I can't just walk out of the house. 

is a pretty serious level of abuse.   He is holding you emotional hostage by his language and you giving credibility to his comments.   almost everyone has access to a 1-800 hotline toll free number for domestic abuse.    I would suggest you call and talk to some one live.   ask for their thoughts and ideas.    you might never need their level of support but it can't hurt to be educated just in case.

when you try to exit and he escalates, your approach is working.    the goal is to remove you and your children from the abusive behavior.   because he is human he will 'press the button on the soda machine again',   and because he has difficulty regulating his emotions he will press that button over and over harder and harder for a very long time.   intermittent reinforcement of the boundary I will not listen to abuse, is not your friend.     taking responsibility for your own very human actions during an abuse cycle is not your friend.   being held emotional hostage because your toddler is there is not your friend.

I like Cat's suggested language.   He is NOT going to like Cat's suggestions.    Here are a couple of more.

I won't have this conversation in front of Toddler.

You and I see this very differently.   I don't see any reason to discuss it further.

It seems we have a difference of opinion about this, and that's too bad.

and then just stop.  stop talking.  stop engaging.   if you can't walk away, hold your ground.   Less is more in these situations.   Less energy.   Less words.    Less emotion.    Create an emotional reserve, if you can't create a physical space between you, create an emotional space.   I'm looking at you but I am not really listening attitude.     

He will double down.    The goal is not to get him to stop being abusive.   The goal is (for right now) to get you to stop participating in the abusive cycle.

my two cents
'ducks

[Frankee]

You become a less - than person in the relationship and it become easier for the intimidator to bully again.
Have you ever put a couple of dollars into the soda machine and pressed the button for your soda only to have nothing happen?   Most people will press that soda button harder. Over and over again harder because we are used to having something happen when we put money in the machine and press a button.   

We all expect certain results from certain activities and when we don't get them we try the activity harder, more. Your H is used to getting you to take responsibility for, well nearly everything if he hollers enough. Heck he has you more than half convinced you are responsible for everything in the r/s. 

 
As much as it was hard to hear, I really do appreciate the response babyducks.  I think it's time I'm ready hear the hard truth and face what I need to change.  I can already tell it's going to be an extremely hard road, the one I'm about to take.  One thing he is, it's being very persistent.  Not only will he push that button harder, he'll take a bulldozer to it and attempt to destroy the machine.  It is correct too.  He places just about every blame on my shoulders for anything going wrong.  He is use to getting a certain response when he acts a certain way.  I switched my response the other day to his attempt to place blame. Then all of a sudden I'm acting high and mighty, have a smug look, acting like a queen, like I'm running things, going to drive him to a heart attack or the mentioned below threat.

Why are you willing to allow him to define your character?   

I suspect the way to end the conflict is through finding out why you are willing to accept his judgements and name calling as legitimate.

He is holding you emotional hostage by his language and you giving credibility to his comments.

I try talking up to myself, reminding myself that just because he says it does not make it true, I am a good person, etc.  It took a real hard time for me to even get where I am now.  Asking for help to really change.  He was really good at drudging up my past and throwing it in my face.  This is why it hurt.

An ex of mine... turned out to be a pedophile.  Found out by CPS that he was accused of doing some things to his own daughter... under our roof.  As you can imagine the utter horror when I found out.  I got a call from the police and everything.  I left my ex, but had a son with him.  So I was dragged through a DHS investigation case for 6 months and then a very ugly, horrible custody battle.  It was so messed up.  They didn't have enough evidence to file any charges at the time, so I had to fight tooth and nail to keep my son away from him.  After a period where my ex kidnapped my son for three weeks and I finally got law enforcement to hunt him down and get my son back.  He lost all visitation and contact rights.  Luckily during all this he was charged with felony criminal once the DA pulled their stuff together and filed formal charges.  Then when I gave an anonymous tip of his truck and last known location, Federal Marshals snatched him up.  He was bonded out and then arrested again for trafficking and possession of methamphetamine.  He is currently serving prison time.

Imagine the kind of ammo my current H had to use against me when he really wanted to be cruel.  He's stopped using it like he use too.  I'm not sure if he started feeling really bad or if I stopped reacting too it.  It took me some serious soul searching and self compassion to accept that it wasn't my fault.  Everything that happened wasn't because of me.   I finally came to terms and peace with everything that I experienced with my ex.  I told my H that one day.  That I was done defending, justifying, or allowing him to hurt me with it anymore.  When he would say something about it, I gave him no reaction or response.

when you try to exit and he escalates, your approach is working.    the goal is to remove you and your children from the abusive behavior.   

and then just stop.  stop talking.  stop engaging.   if you can't walk away, hold your ground.   Less is more in these situations.   Less energy.   Less words.    Less emotion.    Create an emotional reserve, if you can't create a physical space between you, create an emotional space.   I'm looking at you but I am not really listening attitude.     

He will double down.    The goal is not to get him to stop being abusive.   The goal is (for right now) to get you to stop participating in the abusive cycle.

I believe this last part will be the most effective.  When I respond to his level of anger or emotion, it ends up real ugly.  It's really hard.  When he gets in my face and tries to warrant a response.  It goes against everything I feel inside.  I feel the strong urge to puff up, respond in such a way showing him I'm not scared and not going to take his crap.  I've spent so long letting him bring me down, now that I'm feeling better and slowly gaining my confidence back, I'm finding it harder not to respond as mentioned.

I'm really going to take all of this to heart.  I know that he's going to fight back against this because he's use to doing A and gets response B.  I know he doesn't respect me.  He knows that if he does certain things, it pushes my buttons.  I'm really going to try hard to apply everything mentioned.  Thank you for the feedback.

[babyducks]

Frankee

 
One thing he is, it's being very persistent.  Not only will he push that button harder, he'll take a bulldozer to it and attempt to destroy the machine.

I can't tell if this is a metaphor or a concern.    Let's say it's both.  It's not unheard of for the relationships here to flash over into violence.    Mine did.   The story is too long to tell now but it was actually me who lashed out violently.  I ended up with a broken hand, surgery and 4 pins and a plate.

I went back and read some of your older posts trying to learn if either you or your H is receiving professional help.   If you are I didn't see it in what you had written.    I know that sometimes it is hard to obtain professional help,    insurance limits, waiting lists,  available providers.   I would recommend it.   What you are describing is not going to resolve without the help of trained professionals.   I would advise again to get in contact with your local domestic violence agency.   I would strongly advise you not mention that to your husband.  The local domestic violence agency can provide referrals and contacts to other groups and support.    Please consider it.   If you call you can often choose to remain anonymous.

Being in the middle of the incendiary rage of a pwBPD is very difficult.    None of us do it easily.   and there is no way to do it perfectly.    Skip once said here (don't tell him I like this comment it will go to his head)  none of us pitch a perfect game.   True.   A long time ago I got stuck in a rage with my pwBPD.  She blocked the door and I knew if I tried to push passed it would escalate.   I ended up on the sofa, curled up in a fetal position, my arms wrapped around my head, while she screamed and the cat threw up.   a very bad hour.  

When in the middle of a verbally abusive encounter there are only 4 responses possible, Fight, Flight, Freeze, and Fawn.   Eventually you will end up in one of those responses.  Some of us are preconditioned to a response.   I tend to end up in Freeze.   It is what it is.   I agree with what you said upstream that being in touch with the anger of Fight can be helpful, healing.   But only if we use it to ensure good boundaries, healthy assertiveness and strong self protection.    If you haven't had anyone model that for you it might take a while to learn.   It's a process.

He's stopped using it like he use too.  I'm not sure if he started feeling really bad or if I stopped reacting too it.

I'm sorry you experienced all of that.   It had to be deeply wounding.    I do want to highlight what you said.     It's been my experience that pwBPD are highly sensitive to our reactions.    I would say you no longer reacting too it made it less viable for him to use.     NotWendy talked about drama bait in another thread today.   She said this.

I learned to look at this kind of thing as drama bait. The clue was my feelings. If my H  said something that I felt irritated by, I looked at it as drama bait. Not from his part but from me- something about my background made me vulnerable to this statement. I saw the drama between us as a sort of addiction. This statement would be like offering a drink to an alcoholic.

So I would stop myself and think " this is relationship alcohol". Some other people I know call it " an invitation to the crazy party" ( crazy stuff between two people in relationships) and you don't have to accept.

It applies here too.    

What do you think?  How is it going today?    Has the situation calmed at all ?

'ducks