Just can't see the way out

[bpdisphun]

I have been so unhappy for years now.  Really since the beginning of the relationship (if you read my intro post I think I touched on that).  I just can't hardly take it anymore, but at the same time I can't see a way out.  It is like a glass wall... .I can see the other side, but I can't see the way to get to it.  I feel completely stuck.  

It seems like it should be so simple:  Just tell her I am unhappy and want to separate (we are married), and then either she moves out, or my son and I move out (he is not her son).  But, I just can't see the path to this.  It just seems like the time will never be right.  And then i start thinking of all the ways she will make my life hell.  She is so very skilled at finding and utilizing strategies and behaviors at the perfect times to just make things absolutely miserable.  What will I do between the time of telling her I want to split and one of us actually leaving? I could leave, but that would likely mean losing the house, and how would I ensure that I could get my stuff and more importantly my son's stuff?  I hate the thought of my son being put through so much stress.  She is very well known in our town and very well loved by everyone (she is truly a wonderful person outside of our relationship), and that means she will likely tell everyone how horrible I am, giving me little chance of a social life.

Every time I start feeling hopeful thinking of the future without her I get knocked back to a pit of despair with the reality of the path to it.  My mental strength (and even physical strength) has been beaten down so much throughout the relationship that I am simply not sure I can make it through.  And to add icing to that cake, every opportunity that goes by that I miss out on is just another cut to my mental strength that I continue to let it happen.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi BPDisphun,

I'm sorry to hear about your current situation! This is a lot to be dealing with and since you don't have it planned yet... .well, I can imagine it must just feel so overwhelming and huge. There are so many variables, some you control, some you don't. I hope others who are more planning oriented will come by, but for now... .I will offer what I can which is to ask... .Well, you mention about opportunities... .What opportunities do you feel have passed you by? Is there any way to have them back? Or to envision a whole new life full of new opportunities? Where are you at on this point?

How could you get your strength back up?

Would love to hear more as thinking these things through helps all of us... .I know as anticipate a highly possible divorce this year it helps to think this through together!

wishing you happiness, pearl.

[catinthehat]

I'm sorry to hear that BPDisphun.

I have only been with my SO for more than a year and we aren't married. I started to feel it was going out of control so I had to reach out to friends, family and then a therapist.

Having a therapist has brought my strength back and belief on myself.  And I have learned that having a person physically in a room with you works better than a phone call or text message.

I hope you are able to reach somebody that can help you possibly organize all the things you need to do.  And just take baby steps in accomplishing each and every one of it for you to move forward with your life;

[lighthouse9]

Hi there BPDisphun (great name by the way, made me chuckle)

I'm so sorry to hear you're in this place. It can be so hard to not feel paralyzed right after we get glimmers of strength or clarity, almost as if it would have been better to not feel those moments of strength and clarity. I wonder though, what does it feel like for you to have moments where you think about leaving? Do you ever imagine things for yourself when you think of life without your spouse?

My coach is trying to get me to write what he calls a "Holy Sh*t" letter, which is a letter I write to him imagining that I'm 3 years out from today. The purpose of it is to tell him about all the great things in my life that I made happen since we started working together. I've been absolutely paralyzed to write it, because almost every scenario I think of is one where my now separating uBPDw has gone to DBT and done her work and I've done my work and we are soo happy together and BPD isn't taboo in our relationship, it's just another thing we make room for in our life. Then I realize why I can't write the letter - it just doesn't feel realistic right now. My coach has helped me to see that I'm letting what she does or doesn't do determine what I dream about. It's ok for me to dream about a future with her, but there's a difference between waiting for her to do her work, and going off, doing mine, and inviting her back into my life if and only if I feel like she's the woman I want to be with.

I still can't write the letter, but I'm getting closer. I'm starting to have glimpses of what it is that I desire and what it is that I want to accomplish or what kinds of things are in my life that I enjoy. What kind of work am I doing? What do I do after work? Where do I spend my weekends? How often do I see my family? Where do I go on vacation? As I start to dream about these little things, I start to see myself differently and remember the confident person that started this relationship with her. I now know that there's no future with her without me working on myself and my future. Even still, there may be no future with her, but no matter what, one thing rings constant: I have to believe in a future for myself-  even if it's just for tomorrow or the next hour of my day, not 3 years from now.

You have a lot of very valid and big concerns and I applaud your ability to remember them and strategize them, no matter how much they paralyze you. You ARE doing the work BPDisphun - I can hear it when you talk about feeling hopeful and when you talk about seeing the other side. This might just be the first tedious, unhappy, awful step: seeing something different.

What would it feel like to congratulate yourself for that step?

Also, don't ever forget about safety - and it's always ok to think about safety. Even with how much I feel fairly in control right now, compared to a month ago when things got really bad with my wife, I still keep a go-bag packed with essentials, cash, and a few changes of clothes and some food in it. Might seem extreme, but it gives me comfort to know that I can be out the door within minutes if I need to be. I even bought a disposable litterbox for the cat and have her food packed in the bag. Are there steps you could take, covertly, to make yourself feel a bit safer about decisions you might be making soon?

[Radcliff]

Hello BPDisphun,

I can relate to that awful spot of just being stumped by the mechanics of a separation, how to do it without possessions getting trashed with a high-functioning BPD who very selectively targets you but looks great to everyone else.

I have some thoughts but don't want to flood you with input.  Let us know what you think about the input above, and I'll leave my contribution for after that.

WW

[bpdisphun]

Sorry it has taken a while, I don't have a lot of opportunities to get on here since I can't get on at home... .

Thank you all for the support!  I will try to touch on everything that people have been asking that I can answer right now:

... .What opportunities do you feel have passed you by? Is there any way to have them back? Or to envision a whole new life full of new opportunities? Where are you at on this point? 

Well, many small opportunities, but some bigger ones too.  Mainly things like career opportunities (not having her approval makes it hard to pursue some things, such as I would like to learn more of my dad's business to maybe one day do that, or get a realestate license etc).  Opportunities to share real actual love with someone who I am a match with.  Smaller opportunities to share with friends doing interesting things or just having fun.  The last few are certainly attainable in a future without her, but the first one may or may not be depending on when things happen.

Hi there BPDisphun (great name by the way, made me chuckle)

... .I wonder though, what does it feel like for you to have moments where you think about leaving? Do you ever imagine things for yourself when you think of life without your spouse?

... .It's ok for me to dream about a future with her, but there's a difference between waiting for her to do her work, and going off, doing mine, and inviting her back into my life if and only if I feel like she's the woman I want to be with.

What would it feel like to congratulate yourself for that step?

... .Are there steps you could take, covertly, to make yourself feel a bit safer about decisions you might be making soon?

Moments thinking of leaving are partly freeing and hopeful, and partly terrifying.  Some because of the thought of change, but largely because of fear of what she will do, or what could happen.  I imagine things for myself when I think about life without her quite frequently .  It does help to fantasize sometimes.  I also understand what you are saying when you talk about when you think of the future.  I personally don't want a future with mine though, so it in a way is hard for me to imagine feeling the way you do at the same time.  I have tried to congratulate myself for the positive steps I have made so far, but sometimes it still seems so insignificant.  Other times I feel like I have done great .  Covert planning is nearly impossible with her beyond the paper stage.  She is relentless in her investigation, and she is always suspicious, even (or perhaps especially) when things are going well (i.e. I am "being good".  It is basically impossible for me to secretly hide money as she notices even small amounts being missing from my account.  If I get a little extra cash out when I go to the ATM for something, she will either question it immediately, or later when she needs cash for something and she "doesn't have enough" (she makes more than I do... .).  Hiding other prep supplies would be equally difficult.

I can relate to that awful spot of just being stumped by the mechanics of a separation, how to do it without possessions getting trashed with a high-functioning BPD who very selectively targets you but looks great to everyone else.

I have some thoughts but don't want to flood you with input.  Let us know what you think about the input above, and I'll leave my contribution for after that.

WW

Your description is pretty spot on .  I hate for anyone to have to experience any of this!  Please feel free to share your thoughts!

[Radcliff]

Your description is pretty spot on .  I hate for anyone to have to experience any of this!  Please feel free to share your thoughts!

You have recently arrived here.  Life with a pwBPD can be hard.  Leaving a pwBPD is kind of an expert topic

My best advice would be to become a regular visitor here for a while, start learning the coping tools, and see if you can improve things.  I'm not trying to sway you on staying vs. going, but learning how not to add fuel to the fire and learning some of the other coping tools here can ratchet down the tension at home, give you some more breathing room, and allow you to build your strength while you consider your options.

What behavior of your wife's is causing you the most pain right now?

WW

[bpdisphun]

Honestly things are somewhat stable currently.  I was just talking about this with my therapist (among other things).  It is stable, but like an uncomfortable stable.  Somehow I have managed to subconsciously find the magic combination of behavior that results in the swings up and down being much smaller.  This overall is better than the intense up and down, but at the same time is not exactly pleasant.  More like instead of switching between 10 and 0, it just constantly between a 3 and a 6.  But this is only because I try incredibly hard to fit the mold she wants me to be in, while at the same time I have just enough resistance to keep her from getting too happy which would then trigger the sharp dive into being intensely unpleasant.  It wears on me quite a bit each day.  It feels like I have gotten very skilled at walking on eggshells so I don't break as many.  Ending the relationship is definitely the end goal for me as I will never be happy with her even if she didn't have BPD.  We just don't have much in common other than the codependency we share .

I can't really pick a specific behavior that bothers me the most right now.  I think I block so much out so that I can deal with it on a daily basis.  Many behaviors that she WOULD exhibit she doesn't that much simply because I have been able to mold myself and act and do exactly what she wants for the most part and I don't try to be myself or do the things I would like to do.  If I were to try, it will result in a continually escalating behavior on her part until I back down and apologize.  Perhaps the one thing that she does continue to do EVERY DAY is the constant negativity and conflicts/arguing over everything with myself and my son.  I can't share an opinion without her arguing that I am wrong (even if it is a cold hard fact for that matter) or accusing me of arguing with her because I disagree.  And the insults and negativity directed at my son is very troubling, but if I try to stand up for him then she will start becoming angry and escalating until I apologize.

[Radcliff]

You are right, it sounds like you have molded yourself into a pretzel, and it is not sustainable.  I have some experience with that!

What you've got is working, after a fashion, so I wouldn't suggest any sudden changes.  But over time, it would be good to unpack what you're doing, look at the tools here, and see if there's a way to get results as good with less strain on you.

But I'd suggest as a first target that you work to improve things regarding your son.  He's more vulnerable than you are, and what's happening to him now sets him up for his adult relationships.  Does he live with you full time?  Can you give us more detail on how she is treating him?

WW

[bpdisphun]

But I'd suggest as a first target that you work to improve things regarding your son.  He's more vulnerable than you are, and what's happening to him now sets him up for his adult relationships.  Does he live with you full time?  Can you give us more detail on how she is treating him?

My son lives with me primarily.  He visits his mom roughly every other weekend. The fact that he lives with me full time is one thing that makes leaving very hard.  If it was just myself, I could leave much easier as I could just stay at a friends house or something.  But with him involved it makes it much more complex.  I would not ever wish for him to be back with his mom full time though, as even though his step-mom is not great, his NPD biological mom is still worse.  In a way I think it makes it even harder than if the child was both people's, barring that the pwBPD is not a risk to the child.  While far from ideal, at least one does have the option of leaving the child with the other parent and going somewhere else.  Of course the grass is always greener on the other side .

As far as she is treating him, she is just, well, mean.  I think it frustrates her that he doesn't respond the way she wants him to to things.  She in some ways uses the same BPD tactics on him, but they don't net the type of response she wants.  I know he has plenty of issues and he can most definitely lack common sense sometimes to the extent that it just boggles one's mind, and he can certainly act dumb, but instead of being constructive in correcting him, she will say "you are dumb".  Often she is insulting when there is no need to be negative at all.  Everything can be going well and she will through out insults at him.  She is excessively strict on him, sometimes not allowing for any mistake.  And she flip flops on things, like she will tell him that she doesn't want him to not love his mom, but then guilt him for wanting to go see her.  I get that she does way more for him than she does, but she just can't accept that kids often have an unconditional love for their parents that just doesn't make sense, so she takes that out on him too.  She is just hard on him with everything, but then she will be nice and loving sometimes.  Basically typical BPD behavior.  The problem is he isn't driven to go above and beyond to please her, just slightly driven to please her.  I think the lack of expected response from him increases her anger at him.  I am starting to notice more and more that between his NPD mom and BPD step-mom, and let's be honest I have my own issues too, he is developing behaviors that are starting to resemble some from those disorders.  And in addition to that, he seems depressed, dysthimic like me perhaps.  Not horribly, but definitely in a kind of blah mood at least at home a lot of times.

I try to stand up to her when she is being hard on him, but that only elicits her anger toward me as well, and in fact seems to increase her behavior towards him.  There is no reasoning with her.  I have tried to get her to compromise and try things a different way, but that just angers her more.  He does see a therapist since when he came to live with me he was pretty distraught from the change, and he will suggest handling problems a certain way but she thinks that is too easy on him.  For instance, he doesn't like a certain food, instead of just saying oh well whatever don't eat then, she will make a fight over it.  She will get insulted if it was food she made, and she will insist that he eats it.  Don't get me wrong, he is picky about things and will go from loving a food to hating it, and it can be very frustrating, but she just refuses to handle the situation well.

She has often said how she didn't sign up for this and stuff like that, and basically acts as though I forced her into this situation and won't let her out or something.  She was the one that encouraged me to go for primary custody in fact.  But it's like after she got what she wanted, (she knew I wasn't happy and things were going rough a lot, so I think she was wanting to use that as a means of security, which worked quite well actually... .though he did truly need to be with me instead of his mom), then it became a problem for her that she doesn't want to deal with.  But the alternative for her is to leave the relationship, which is just not acceptable in her mind, and I think that makes the problem that much worse as she realizes she is stuck in a situation that doesn't fit the perfect world she envisioned.

[Radcliff]

Thanks for taking the time to give all of that detail.  I have to admit, you've got a tough situation there.  The challenge is how to extend boundaries to protect your son.  There are many more moving parts than just a 1:1 boundaries issue.

It's an unfortunately common thing for it to be difficult to remove a child from the abusive or unhealthy behaviors of a parent or step parent.  One of the techniques for addressing this is to bolster the child's ability to reason for himself and to stay in touch with his own reality.  Without undermining your wife as a person, he needs to have some backup from you about what kinds of behaviors are inappropriate in some cases.  But most importantly, you need to tell him that you believe in his ability to judge for himself if something is right or wrong.  He needs to be able to recognize a comment from an adult caregiver that he is stupid as incoming garbage.  Have you had any talks with him about these sorts of things?

Does your son go to a therapist?

Let's see if we can get some other members to pitch in here.  This level of direct unhealthiness towards a child is outside of my personal experience.

WW

[bpdisphun]

It's an unfortunately common thing for it to be difficult to remove a child from the abusive or unhealthy behaviors of a parent or step parent.  One of the techniques for addressing this is to bolster the child's ability to reason for himself and to stay in touch with his own reality.  Without undermining your wife as a person, he needs to have some backup from you about what kinds of behaviors are inappropriate in some cases.  But most importantly, you need to tell him that you believe in his ability to judge for himself if something is right or wrong.  He needs to be able to recognize a comment from an adult caregiver that he is stupid as incoming garbage.  Have you had any talks with him about these sorts of things?

Does your son go to a therapist?

Thank you for your responses!

I myself do truly need to do a better job about bolstering him up.  I think sometimes my self esteem has been driven down so I feel like I can't do much.  Or that I will end up bolstering him and he will become defiant towards her or something and bring more anger towards himself.  But I know that is a poor excuse.  He does however see a therapist, and has since he started living with me.

Setting boundaries with her is incredibly hard; for me alone let alone for both my son and I at the same time.  I have never been able to maintain boundaries with her, otherwise we probably wouldn't have made it this far .  She is very skilled at getting me to cave in and break down boundaries.

[Radcliff]

Have you had a chance to take a look at the boundaries links on this Web site?

[bpdisphun]

Well I have talked about boundaries with my therapist, and so far to no avail.  But I am trying to read through some of the info on this site.  I just have so little time to read it and there is a lot to go through!

[Radcliff]

Hello BPDisphun,

It's been a while.  How are you doing?

WW