Valentine's Day Expectations

[Depression = 72% of members]

Valentine's Day is just around the corner.

1. Do you have any expectations for Valentine's Day from your pwBPD?

If so:
a. What can you do to let your pwBPD know what you want for Valentine's Day (they can't read your mind)?
b. What can you do to remove your expectations?

2. Does your pwBPD have any expectations from you for Valentine's Day?

If you suspect so:
a. What can you do to try to open communication up about their expectations (you can't read their mind)?
b. What will you do if they get upset if you do not meet their expectations?

3. What is something special you do for your pwBPD to let them know you care (expected or not expected), not because of their BPD but because you are a couple?

[Tattered Heart]

Valentine's Day is just around the corner.

1. Do you have any expectations for Valentine's Day from your pwBPD?

If so:
a. What can you do to let your pwBPD know what you want for Valentine's Day (they can't read your mind)?
b. What can you do to remove your expectations?

2. Does your pwBPD have any expectations from you for Valentine's Day?

If you suspect so:
a. What can you do to try to open communication up about their expectations (you can't read their mind)?
b. What will you do if they get upset if you do not meet their expectations?

3. What is something special you do for your pwBPD to let them know you care (expected or not expected), not because of their BPD but because you are a couple?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lady Itone]

She's coming to visit me on v.d... , will stay a couple days and check out a group home in my city she might move to. I'll probably get her some of her favorite fancy candies and cook her fav dinner.
We're not officially a couple anymore but I know she still expects something. I don't mind I like having someone to celebrate holidays with.

I remember her birthday last year she asked for 3 specific things: a cake, rum craft cocktails, and a small gift from a mayan craft store. I made all 3 happen, and she still had a meltdown. I felt so sorry for her I couldn't even get upset.

I don't expect anything. She might pick me up something very inexpensive if she can.

[chapter100]

My exgf w/BPD will likely be vacationing in Mexico possibly with a replacement/former cheating partner.  My expectation is for tremendous unhappiness.

[dumpsterdog]

Its going to be hard not to pay any attention to her on valetnes day... but i thini thats my best move at this point... .other year i got her nice cards and she just tore thn up when she got mad... .so maybe she cant handle having soeone dote on her for v day... .or at least not me... .ive sent her v day and christmas cards the last 2 years with no reciprications... so scew it... .maybe a light will come on that im not really that concerned with her bs anymore and not chasing.

[Tattered Heart]

I remember her birthday last year she asked for 3 specific things: a cake, rum craft cocktails, and a small gift from a mayan craft store. I made all 3 happen, and she still had a meltdown. I felt so sorry for her I couldn't even get upset.

Those were very thoughtful gifts and kind of you to get her those things. You're right in that we can't prevent them from melting down. We can choose our own behavior when they melt down though. It sounds like you were able to stay in Wisemind.

[Tattered Heart]

My exgf w/BPD will likely be vacationing in Mexico possibly with a replacement/former cheating partner.  My expectation is for tremendous unhappiness.

I'm sorry that you are going through that chapter100. I would be very sad too. At the same time, there are things you can do for yourself despite your sadness. What's something special that you can do for yourself?

[Tattered Heart]

Its going to be hard not to pay any attention to her on valetnes day... but i thini thats my best move at this point... .other year i got her nice cards and she just tore thn up when she got mad... .so maybe she cant handle having soeone dote on her for v day... .or at least not me... .ive sent her v day and christmas cards the last 2 years with no reciprications... so scew it... .maybe a light will come on that im not really that concerned with her bs anymore and not chasing.

It would be hard for me to watch my pwBPD tear up my gifts too. 

Why do you have to not give her attention? Could you instead just let the day happen as it happens? Maybe you'll see each other, maybe you won't.

You said that you've given her cards before with no return of the same. Do you usually give gifts with the expectation that you will get one in return?

Not chasing is good. It seems like you still have a lot of emotion just under the surface though. What can you do for yourself on VDay to just take care of you.

[Lady Itone]

How do we manage THEIR expectations?

Last night we were videochatting and she got mad and hung up on me (I challenged her belief that everything that's happened to her at 31 years old is her mother's fault) but called me back half an hour later wanting reassurance that I still wanted her with me on Val day. I assured her I did.

Later, she texted me "What's in store for me on v day?" Then she mentioned wanting to get me a couple of things, both of which I thought were a little "much" given our current financial situations and non-relationship status.

I texted back, "I can't spend much, and you don't have to do anything special, ok? Just something simple."

Fingers crossed no drama.

[Tattered Heart]

It's hard when we know there is an expectation on us, but they won't tell us. For some people, if you ask what they want, then they get offended that you can't figure it out yourself.

I usually just try the direct approach by asking what those expectations are, using SET .  Example: Valentine's Day is coming up. I want to make the day special for you. What are you expectations for that day?

Later, she texted me "What's in store for me on v day?" Then she mentioned wanting to get me a couple of things, both of which I thought were a little "much" given our current financial situations and non-relationship status.

I texted back, "I can't spend much, and you don't have to do anything special, ok? Just something simple."

It sounds like she might be building up to having a big expectation. Your response to her was direct and honest which is good. How could you add a little more support/empathy to it, using SET?

Same with letting her know that she doesn't have to do much. IT seems like she may have big plans in her mind of how wonderful the day will be when she buys you these expensive presents. Can you add something that validates her thoughts/efforts/intent on making VDay big, but then ease into the "let's not go too big"? My concern is that just saying "you don't have to do much" might invalidate what she is feeling.

[pearlsw]

I bypassed all this by doing an early platonic (fun for me like when I was in elementary school)  V-day with a friend. I also spread a little joy along to my younger brother with his new budding romance. I got to spread a little cheer to others and I'll buy myself a treat before/on/or after that day as time allows. I bring myself a lot of happiness.   I love dating me. 

[EdR]

I am not a great fan of Valentine's day. And as my pwBPD was a very good friend, this day will probably never work out fine no matter what I would or wouldn't do. I would think it's a veeeeery bad idea to send anything. Would feel completely stupid and weird. But then... .I am almost sure she probably is expecting something.

An example of someone with a unstable self (not necessarily BPD, but similar) in my family:
She was friends with this guy. She was really happy around him and felt way more confident. At some point in time she thought that he was interested in a different way. She panicked and treated him very differently. Everything was weird about him all of a sudden.
But come Valentine's day she complained how he didn't send her a card or something... .

Really odd... .because I am absolutely sure that if he would have send a card, she would have gone ballistic.

In a way, this feels really similar to the dynamics of my own friendship with someone with BPD traits. However, here I am at the receiving end.
And in my case the devaluation phase was just way more crazy.

So I guess that for some people Valentine's day can never be done right.

[dumpsterdog]

There have been so many fouls with regards to holidays and presents... .whatever i have ever given her was either to big , too small, not thoughtful enought, or too thoughtful,not expensive enough or too expensive... .etc... .never appreciated and always critiqued,,and then later when she had gotten in a rage i would find cards shredded or gifts in the trash... or given to the dogs as toys... .blatant disregard for my feelings... .so ... screw it... .im not rewarding bad behavior. ESPECIALLY SINCE SHE BROKE up WITH ME... .NO MORE GIFTS ... .im not rewarding bad behavior again... .i will be fine... .i wont see her we are in different states... .yes i worry that someone else will give her cards flowers etc... .GOOD FOR THEM... .then she will be their cross to bear not mine... .

[Tattered Heart]

There have been so many fouls with regards to holidays and presents... .whatever i have ever given her was either to big , too small, not thoughtful enought, or too thoughtful,not expensive enough or too expensive... .etc... .never appreciated and always critiqued,,and then later when she had gotten in a rage i would find cards shredded or gifts in the trash... or given to the dogs as toys... .blatant disregard for my feelings... .so ... screw it... .im not rewarding bad behavior. ESPECIALLY SINCE SHE BROKE up WITH ME... .NO MORE GIFTS ... .im not rewarding bad behavior again... .i will be fine... .i wont see her we are in different states... .yes i worry that someone else will give her cards flowers etc... .GOOD FOR THEM... .then she will be their cross to bear not mine... .

It's good that you are beginning to explore your boundaries. What personal value would you say is the basis for this boundary?

[Radcliff]

Nothing says "I love you" like... .a restraining order.  Sorry, I know that sounds flip, and I should be careful not to be disrespectful, but honestly I'm pretty upset to be heading into Valentine's Day with this situation, and also thinking about all the previous Valentine's days that were just setups for disappointment.   Hmm... .Wentworth is normally a "glass is 1/16 full" kinda guy, but holidays... .I dread them.  Anything with presents.  Valentine's Day, birthdays, Christmas, anniversaries.  No present is ever good enough.  Now, over the years, I have had some genuinely lame performances, but honestly I think under the right circumstances things could go well.  But we don't seem to have the right circumstances.  Take anniversaries, for instance.  That's a couples thing.  I'd like to be able to have a discussion about what would make us both happy, and celebrate together.  Not somehow be on the hook for convincing my wife that we should still be married, and turning in such an amazing performance that her world is made whole.  Last September, my birthday, was especially disappointing.  I can't remember if that was the birthday I slept on the couch, or if it was the previous year.  Or maybe it was both.  In any event, this year, my wife gave me a wonderful card, the best in years.  And she wrote some wonderful things in it.  Really good stuff.  Less than 24 hours later it was dumped in the kitchen garbage with drama.   

TH, sorry to barf on your party.  You've helped Wentworth discover his inner curmudgeon! 

pearlsw, that was a wonderful idea to have an early Valentine's Day with a friend!  I bet your friend appreciated it!  I remember going to the stationary store to get those cards, and the candy hearts with the writing on them!  Rejection was impossible -- everyone got cards from everyone!

WW

[Lady Itone]

So sad to read of all the painful memories of holidays gone bad. Hopefully it's comforting to know that pretty much everyone has had this experience at one point or another, whether there's a pwBPD in their lives or not. Still, nothing worse than feeling down on a day when you're supposed to be celebrating love, a new year, or a birthday, etc...

Last year on my birthday, my gfBPD was in the psyche ward and didn't acknowledge me turning 45 at all. I was just trying to remember last year's Vday, I think I took her to a nice restaurant and she complained I didn't get her a gift. I guess she must've got me something, but I forget what.

Yesterday she started texting me how she wasn't sure she should come to town on vday, she's broke, etc... I admitted I'd be disappointed, but I understood if it was a hardship and she couldn't come. She wanted to go back and forth about it, but I didn't. I told her to make up her own mind, that I wasn't going to beg or cry or offer to pay for everything.

She responded that I am sexy and now she's definitely coming. Sigh.

[Tattered Heart]

TH, sorry to barf on your party.  You've helped Wentworth discover his inner curmudgeon!  

WW, I'm just going to call you Walter from now on. (Maybe Walter Wentworth  )

Seriously though, I know you are going through a lot right now. Holidays are very tough and when our pwBPD has made them miserable, it's hard to get excited about holidays.

Thankfully for me gift giving comes in last on my love languages list so it isn't very important. My H hasn't celebrated VDay in a very long time, as he thinks it's buying into "the system of commercialization". I usually don't even acknowledge it anymore except saying "Happy VDay. I love you." I've found that the best way to handle holidays that require gift giving is for my H and I to buy a bigger gift for both of us. So instead of buying cards and flowers and chocolate, we will get a new lamp or surround sound speakers, or something for the house that we can both enjoy. As an extra bonus I'll buy a cheesecake that we can have after dinner, or something like that.

This year for VDay, he has to work an overnight shift. So I get to celebrate by myself. Alone time is the best gift for an introvert.  

[dumpsterdog]

Reading all the posts , taking it all in... .I think historically for the past three or four years, i have gottne her cards , candy, cute little bears etc... .one year she got me a card that said " i love you "... then when she was mad about a week later, she confessed she only got me that card because " thats the only one they had at the dollar store, and yuour not even worth that, and thats " just what you say on valentines day, I reeally dont love you"'... .as a matter of fact i cant tell how many times she has told me ... " i dont love you "... .which hurt every time... .and then i would say " what about last week when we had sex and you said you loved me "... .she would reply... ." you cleaned the yard and were nice for a few days so i gave you sex , it means nothing to me... " again... .very hurtful... .so now i'm thinkg, does she just f----- everybody who helps her with something, like  her previous boyfriend was the pool guy... ?
She changed our plans last Thanksgiving, ignoring me to go hiking all day with another man, ( i found out she called him , aftrer they had been facebook friends for over a year and she knew he had a crush on her ) blew me off when i ask her out for her birthday, and went out with that same other man... .so shes been " friends with him " over a year now,,,im sure she will get her v day from from him... .i hate her with all my might as i write this... .why would i even stay in touch , what a   tramp... .and im sure later she will say " you didnt even get me anything and he did "... .so irritating ... i want to just slap her... ( not really , im not dangerous,,,but very annoyed and frustrated. )"

All of that being said... .for the first time on 7 years... .i will get her nothing... .i might send her a note =saying " thinking of you, but you tore up all the other cards i got you in the past and told me you didnt love me and broke up with me, so i didn't get you a card "... .however this might just trigger a rage... .so MAYBE THE ONLY move for my sanity is just letting the day pass and pretend shes dead.

Thoughts.?

It's good that you are beginning to explore your boundaries. What personal value would you say is the basis for this boundary?

[Tattered Heart]

All of that being said... .for the first time on 7 years... .i will get her nothing... .i might send her a note =saying " thinking of you, but you tore up all the other cards i got you in the past and told me you didnt love me and broke up with me, so i didn't get you a card "... .however this might just trigger a rage... .so MAYBE THE ONLY move for my sanity is just letting the day pass and pretend shes dead.

Thoughts.?

I think if you're not going to get her anything, just don't get her anything. No words or explanation is needed. Telling her why you didn't get her anything would be seen as just trying to get her riled up or revenge.

How does pretending that she is dead make things better vs. just acknowledging she isn't in your life anymore?

Anger is normal, but at a certain point, then intense emotions should begin to dissipate. If that's not happening, Is Resentment Blocking Your Healing & Recovery?"

One last note. I think the Detaching Board may be a better board for you to explore some of these intense feelings that you are struggling with. The Bettering Board is for those who want to begin looking at how they can change themselves to begin improving their relationship or to work on a relationship that has recently broken up. The Detaching Board is for those who want to express their hurt and anger about their break up.

[lighthouse9]

I'm really curious about how she will handle Valentine's Day - and mostly just letting my curiosity be the leading emotion right now.

In the past, she's done some really cute things and we even took a trip together once for Valentine's Day. She says she's not into the holiday, but knows that I'm the romantic type so she always ended up doing something really thoughtful or letting me plan something nice.

Since she asked for divorce and moved out, I'll be curious what happens. I'm not planning anything for her or planning on bringing it up, since anything I do to say "I'd still like to work this out" comes off as pressure. I guess it will all depend on what our interaction is like this weekend, when she comes by to pick up the cat and more of her stuff. She's made it pretty clear that she can't do her work with me around, so I'm going to respect that. But, I wouldn't doubt that she'll do something or acknowledge the day, unless we have agreed to a no contact period that includes the day in it. Time will tell.

I have counseling that night, so that will be how I celebrate - by loving myself enough to get help!

Maybe I'll send some cards off to my niece and nephews if I'm up to it - it can feel good to give love, so that might be a nice way to celebrate.

[Tattered Heart]

That's sounds like a great plan. Not investing too much emotion into it and doing something for yourself and those you love on top of it.

[Radcliff]

Tattered Heart -- thanks for understanding.  Your ability to take a situation and manage it with grace and positivity is inspirational.  Cheesecake makes everything better 

lighthouse9 -- directing Valentine's day cheer to relatives is a wonderful, positive idea to direct that energy!

WW

[isilme]

How do we manage THEIR expectations?

This is about where I am now.  For years, I had my own expectations dashed, and somehow, finally, H stepped up and makes sure something nice like flowers at least come my way.  We had one bad year where he'd bought me jewelry, but we never had the "no black box unless it's got a ring in it" rule, and so while it was a nice gift, my disappointment was evident and I could not dial it back (bear in mind we'd been together FAR longer than most people, over a decade at this point, and so my hopes for a proposal (especially when literally, no exaggeration, ALL the people we knew were getting engaged and married, about 30 all told) were not "too ealry" or unrealistic in my opinion.

So I went from hiding tears at not getting anything, to try to be happy he just tried and remembered - (one year he brought flowers to both me and the other lady in my office because he said he felt like it would be mean to only bring them to me.  He DID walk to get them, and arranged them himself, but at the same time, it was a bit of a slight, like there was nothing special at all about me or our relationship, and I guess I was just selfish about it) to now feeling like no matter what I try it's never enough.

I can have a perfectly fine day, simple dinner, store-bought flowers/candy, and be happy.  But HE gets all these expectations but does not communicate them and tells me how much "we" failed for V-day.  Sigh. 

I just get him something I think he may like, and do my best.  I can't control if he likes it, is happy with the amount of romance and passion in the later hours of the night.  So I try really hard to not let ME get hung up on HIS issues about it.

[dumpsterdog]

No I dont expect any " thing " back ... but i guess i view the " occasion card " just as a thoughtful sign she cares... .and she clearly doesnt... .so why bother.

[Mrb87]

For vday my BPDbf expects something but i cant get anything for him.
1. because he set a rule in place to not buy each other gift ever ( but he still asks me all the time to buy him things. then ill have to remind him of the rule he set in place) *the rule was set in place because he was caught cheating multiple times and entertaining his guess with my gifts.

2.If i get him anything i wont receive anything back. not that im looking for something everyday but it would be a normal relationship when u make each other happy but showing it sometimes. it would be nice to be treated fairly on my birthdays, anniversaries, valentines day, x-mas, and have romantic surprise here and there.

what i expect to happen on valentines day is him to say "happy vday" and go out for a quiet dinner. I hope nothing triggers him so we can get in and get out. n

no sex because we havent gotten that back yet because of his wild sexually impulses. ( dont trust him at the moment) i dont wanna great a STD for vday.

[ScaredEmotional]

This will be my first Valentine's Day with my pwBPD and also my first Valentine's Day not single! So for me this is a very special occasion. Sadly I don't know how to articulate to him with out putting too much pressure on him. I'm already pretty sure that he hasn't organised anything for the day. Not that I need or want anything except for him to recognise what day it is and make some sort of effort. I'd be super happy if he came home with some roses or wasthe first to initiate some kind of affection (I've noted before on this DB that it's usually me saying I love you first or kissing him etc).

Me on the other hand, I have a surprise gift being delivered to his work (something he wanted), I have another gift coming that he said he wanted but doesn't know I've ordered yet and I also have another intimate surprise. I was also going to rise early and make him souffle pancakes (something he's wantede to try for a while) for a breakfast in bed surprise.

I love him so much so I have no problem spoiling him on this day. However, I know I will be hurt if he hasn't even made a second thought about the day and I will find that hard to hide, knowing that it will probably set him off.

I guess my goal for this weekend is to let him know that this VD means a lot to me and why.

[Dignity&Strength]

Hi, I'm so glad you asked... .I am always kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop, especially around holidays like this one. Historically, my husband does something, but it's an underhanded, passive aggressive slap in the face. Like, one year, he got me an orange bouquet of flowers instead of red. The next year was the smallest cheap bunch of dying every day flowers. Or the smallest generic box of chocolate. So that if I'm disappointed or offended, he gets to be the victim, and I'm labeled hard to please, ungrateful, or whatever. He says, but those flowers were the prettiest ones in the grocery store to me. Yeah. Right. For Christmas, one year, he got me a pack of pencils and a sticky pad of to do notes, so I could try to get more of my chores done around the house in a timely manner... .yuck... .
So, yes, I just can't wait to see what put down he has disguised as a gift this year... .not really. OH! And this is important to him... .that he sees me be disappointed and have his desired reaction to his obviously less than choice. Like the year of the orange flowers, he said, if you deserved red roses, i would have gotten you those, but seriously, you don't deserve those. My tears after that, his power to control my emotions and make me cry, he really relishes that power. So, I haven't fallen into that trap again, if I could see it.

I always try to get something for him that he likes or needs that he won't buy for himself. He's allergic to peanuts, and likes turtle chocolates. So I may pick a nice, normal box of chocolate for him.  Or something else that's his favorite, like mint chocolate chip ice cream. And then there's this... .I always pick out a card that says exactly how I wish things were, even if they're not. Something that says how I wish I felt... .thankful, lucky, how amazing he is, whatever. People sometimes have a way of living up to our expectations so is use the card to try to raise the bar. Even though it makes me a little nauseous... .
Best wishes this holiday,
MJ

[Radcliff]

Like the year of the orange flowers, he said, if you deserved red roses, i would have gotten you those, but seriously, you don't deserve those. My tears after that, his power to control my emotions and make me cry, he really relishes that power.

MJ, I'm so sorry to hear this.  I hope you have a better Valentine's Day this year.  Can you do anything for yourself so you've got something guaranteed?  Any girlfriends in a similar position who you can take out to lunch?

WW

[Dignity&Strength]

WW,
I'm new, so still trying to figure out replies, quotes and all that.
Yes, I try to do the holiday beforehand, with my son, like a nice meal, or something for myself, like a manicure... .some inexpensive pretty grocery store flowers or small chocolate box. A hallmark movie at home while he's at work... .
I've learned this process for Thanksgiving, Christmas, my birthday, etc.
Self-care, it's a must living in this chaos. And it's easier to have peace during the holiday chaos if Ive already felt like I've honored and experienced it in peace already.
MJ

[Yuu]

We broke up so no plans whatsoever. I wasn't even going to try and get anything because I usually if not always when she is in that (I hate everything I don't want us I am feeling like this for no reason) surprised her with gifts,  flowers, chocolates and even handmade things which I put my feelings into.but she never seemed to appreciate anything. A simple good reaction would've satisfied me. I don't know if she expects anything but I don't think so.we never celebrated it much.

[Radcliff]

MJ, yes, the pre-emptive strike is a great idea, covering your bases before the holiday to lower the stakes.  Smart.  I wonder if it's possible to pull our pwBPD into some sort of preemptive celebration?  A pwBPD who is scared of being "good enough" on a holiday may lash out as a defense mechanism, trying to make us feel worse than they do, or trying to make us responsible when they really are intimidated by delivering on a holiday.  I'm just brainstorming, and will freely admit that my own experience with holidays has been rather poor!  But I have found sometimes that getting some sort of celebration done beforehand can take some pressure off.

Yuu, I'm so sorry for the timing of this holiday coming so shortly after the breakup. 

WW